US Supreme Ct case effect on Cruise lines

[dkjretired]

Below is an interesting Supreme Court Case which could have an effect on Cruise line affinity programs if a precedent is set. Basically, a gentlemen is suing Northwest Airlines because they stripped him of his status and FF miles because he was a pain in the Butt....At issue is whether the airline has a right to do that. Usually a precedent will be set that could affect Captains Club or other lines clubs.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/politics/court-frequent-flyer/

[cle-guy]

wow. I can't imagine this made it all the way to SCOTUS.

 

Lots of legal jargon back and forth there, but I can't imagine all of a sudden eh we can revoke or cage the program at any time language will ever come out of these FF programs. If they do, airlines will be pressed to tighten up the rules and restrictions terribly and close all the loopholes. unless passengers revolt of course.

 

I'll be interested to see how it goes, from the legalese standpoint, but as a business man, pray they vote in favor of the airlines on this one, or a lot of things will be changing.

[TommyD3]

Below is an interesting Supreme Court Case which could have an effect on Cruise line affinity programs if a precedent is set. Basically, a gentlemen is suing Northwest Airlines because they stripped him of his status and FF miles because he was a pain in the Butt....At issue is whether the airline has a right to do that. Usually a precedent will be set that could affect Captains Club or other lines clubs.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/03/politics/court-frequent-flyer/

 

We will see how it goes.

 

I know of two couples who have been banned from ever sailing on Celebrity and its sister lines due to abusive language onboard......

[dkjretired]

We will see how it goes.

 

I know of two couples who have been banned from ever sailing on Celebrity and its sister lines due to abusive language onboard......

 

There was a highly publicized case of a woman a few years ago on Royal who did some really funny things on board which apparently the cruise line didn't think were funny.

Edited December 11, 2013 by dkjretired

[CulverCityCruisers]

There are almost no cruise ships that are registered in the USA, so the courts decision would have no effect even though the companies might be US based, where you get benefits is non US

[cle-guy]

There are almost no cruise ships that are registered in the USA, so the courts decision would have no effect even though the companies might be US based, where you get benefits is non US

 

Airlines typically create a separate unique business unit for the Frequent flyer programs. Wonder if X does as well. Airlines actually make good money from their programs selling benefits off to 3rd parties. Some have even look to selling their programs completely off to 3rd parties though I'm not sure it's ever been done.

[Hawaiidan]

of deliberate bookings made to take advantage of the company.

It appeared that in both cases this was a carefully planned and organized effort over many years not over an incident.

[NLH Arizona]

The airline should have just told him they didn't want to do business with him any longer. They should have left his frequent flyer program totals intact and if he wanted to use the points with a partner airline, he would be free to do it.

[ghstudio]

The airline should have just told him they didn't want to do business with him any longer. They should have left his frequent flyer program totals intact and if he wanted to use the points with a partner airline, he would be free to do it.

 

Most airline programs also have non airline things you can get with the miles. I suspect that is the root of the legal case and it's an interesting case which has impact on best buy frequent rewards, credit card company points, etc. If the company gives you something of value for doing business with them, can they take it away unilaterally if you followed the rules to get the points/value.

[NLH Arizona]

Most airline programs also have non airline things you can get with the miles. I suspect that is the root of the legal case and it's an interesting case which has impact on best buy frequent rewards, credit card company points, etc. If the company gives you something of value for doing business with them, can they take it away unilaterally if you followed the rules to get the points/value.

That is why I said they should have left the frequent flyer program intact for the man until his miles ran out, if he used them on partner airlines. But Northwest (or as we called them in Minnesota Northworst), wasn't smart enough to do it.

[jhans24]

He was compensated for his miles. They weren't just taken away.

[emileg]

wow. I can't imagine this made it all the way to SCOTUS.

 

Lots of legal jargon back and forth there, but I can't imagine all of a sudden eh we can revoke or cage the program at any time language will ever come out of these FF programs. If they do, airlines will be pressed to tighten up the rules and restrictions terribly and close all the loopholes. unless passengers revolt of course.

 

I'll be interested to see how it goes, from the legalese standpoint, but as a business man, pray they vote in favor of the airlines on this one, or a lot of things will be changing.

According to The Points Guy:

What’s important, though, is that the Supreme Court will not be ruling on whether airline frequent flyer programs can cancel accounts, but whether consumers can bring lawsuits like this to court at all.

http://thepointsguy.com/2013/12/supreme-court-hears-rabbis-case-against-frequent-flyer-programs/

[RickT]

I can only imagine what the gentleman must have been like for the airline to take such a drastic measure. Over the years I've had run ins with people who try to take advantage of the system at every step.

 

Below is an interesting article which goes the other way.

 

"A Quebec judge, in a ruling, labeled a man as a "quarrelsome litigant" after he sued the Dominican Republic because it rained during his vacation.

 

The label, which is uncommon in Quebec, means Bruno Leduc cannot file another lawsuit unless he gets court approval beforehand."

 

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2013/12/08/Man-punished-after-suing-Dominican-Republic-because-it-rained-on-trip/UPI-54351386520263/#ixzz2nCuud7Bl

 

 

http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2013/12/08/Man-punished-after-suing-Dominican-Republic-because-it-rained-on-trip/UPI-54351386520263/

[robtulipe]

Airlines typically create a separate unique business unit for the Frequent flyer programs. Wonder if X does as well. Airlines actually make good money from their programs selling benefits off to 3rd parties. Some have even look to selling their programs completely off to 3rd parties though I'm not sure it's ever been done.

 

Air Canada did this with their Aeroplan Frequent Flyer program. The following history is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroplan

 

When it was created in 1984, Aeroplan program's operations were fully integrated with those of Air Canada. In 2002, Aeroplan was spun off as a wholly owned subsidiary of Air Canada.

In June 2005, Air Canada's parent company ACE Aviation Holdings sold 12.5% of Aeroplan for $250 million through an initial public offering creating the world's first publicly traded loyalty program - Aeroplan Income Fund.

On December 20, 2007, Aeroplan Income Fund acquired Loyalty Management Group, a loyalty marketing and customer driven insight and analysis business that owns and operates Nectar, the UK's leading coalition loyalty program.

On May 28, 2008, ACE Aviation Holdings disposed of its remaining holdings in the fund. As such the Aeroplan program is no longer under direct control of Air Canada.

Edited December 12, 2013 by robtulipe

[redhot1]

He was a rabbi and his wife and they traveled exstensivly for speaking engagements on Northwest. His complaints were of things that happened to them on the airline not abusivre language as I read the case. Intersting case tho,He was a hugh customer however they detailed all his complaints, I thought this case had already come down , not sure tho.:):)

[c-legs]

Airlines typically create a separate unique business unit for the Frequent flyer programs. Wonder if X does as well. Airlines actually make good money from their programs selling benefits off to 3rd parties. Some have even look to selling their programs completely off to 3rd parties though I'm not sure it's ever been done.

AEROPLAN, once a subsidiary of founding airline AirCanada is now a totally independant entity, pawned off to an independant corporate entity and is quite successful (And AC does well selling them seats on their brands !!!)

[billie5]

That is why I said they should have left the frequent flyer program intact for the man until his miles ran out, if he used them on partner airlines. But Northwest (or as we called them in Minnesota Northworst), wasn't smart enough to do it.

 

Hmmm. Northwest, with all their MBAs and lawyers, and none was as smart as you or I. I wonder what the odds of that are?

[BKFlowerMound]

The crux of this case is the meaning and reach of the Airline Deregulation Act, which contains a broad state law preemption provision. Northwest essentially has said that it cannot be sued in state court or under a state law theory for kicking this gentleman off its planes and taking his miles because of the Airline Deregulation Act. Thus, no matter how the Supreme Court rules, it will have NO EFFECT on cruise lines at all

[NLH Arizona]

Hmmm. Northwest, with all their MBAs and lawyers, and none was as smart as you or I. I wonder what the odds of that are?

Hmmm, well if they just would have refused to do business with him (which they have every right to do) and left his frequent flyer account intact, I would bet that there would be no lawsuit. BTW, if you lived in Minneapolis (home to Northworst), you would have seen all the boneheaded things that they did.

[cle-guy]

Hmmm, well if they just would have refused to do business with him (which they have every right to do) and left his frequent flyer account intact, I would bet that there would be no lawsuit. BTW, if you lived in Minneapolis (home to Northworst), you would have seen all the boneheaded things that they did.

 

I worked at a Marriott hotel where we had a weekly guest stayed 3 nights for months each week, every time he got a guest survey, he slammed us for something. Everytime. The particular hotel was ranked 13 in the chain 0f 118 at the time based on guest satisfaction surveys they mailed out, so many of his complaints were minor, but the way management used surveys, it affected the full staff and bonus programs.

 

We tried over and over to resolve his issues (one Issue he wrote about was why did we put a second soap bar in the bathroom when the one he was using was not yet gone, or his merlot was served in cabernet glass - mind you it was a Courtyard with limited services, not a full service hotel), he was never happy. General Manager finally sat him down and told him you are not happy here, you will never be happy here, please do not come back and find someplace you will be happy at, and we wouldn't allow him at our property again.

 

Sometimes you just need to let a customer go.

[robtulipe]

AEROPLAN, once a subsidiary of founding airline AirCanada is now a totally independant entity, pawned off to an independant corporate entity and is quite successful (And AC does well selling them seats on their brands !!!)

The one thing I noticed in the past when booking flights with my Aeroplan miles was that Air Canada flights always had way more expensive total taxes/fees that other Star Alliance partners flying the same route and that was because AC added hefty fuel surcharge fees to their flights. :(

DW and I flew United to get to our Oz/NZ cruise last winter on Aeroplan points because it was around $480 cheaper to use them since they had no fuel surcharge fees, rather than use AC, with FS fees, between Toronto and Sydney for very similar flights. The difference was connecting in LA and SF on the west coast for United rather than in Vancouver for AC. For the AC flights the FS fees showed up in the breakdown for taxes and fees.:)

Edited December 12, 2013 by robtulipe

[Cruising89143]

There was a highly publicized case of a woman a few years ago on Royal who did some really funny things on board which apparently the cruise line didn't think were funny.

 

The person in question constantly had their hand out looking for compensation. RCI finally got tired of her crap and banned the couple.

[dkjretired]

The person in question constantly had their hand out looking for compensation. RCI finally got tired of her crap and banned the couple.

 

Right, but I remember was one of the things she did was go on board with a blue light to check all the sheets and bed covers.

[Cruising89143]

Right, but I remember was one of the things she did was go on board with a blue light to check all the sheets and bed covers.

 

LOL.... I remember that too.

[4cats4me]

The person in question constantly had their hand out looking for compensation. RCI finally got tired of her crap and banned the couple.

 

I know who you're referring to and then she and her husband went over to Princess cruises and started their baloney over there. We all had to put up with her on the cruise board too where she had a new CC name, but people put it together after awhile and just simply ignored her after that. Such a troublemaker

Edited December 12, 2013 by 4cats4me