Norovirus Outbreak Hits Royal Caribbean Cruise Ship

[styles27]

It's been well established on here that the hand sanitizers do nothing to Noro. They are antibacterial and noro is a virus. What they ought to be asking people is when is the last time they washed their hands.

 

I agree...In my opinion too much emphasis is placed on these Purell type products instead of proper and frequent hand washing.

[BeagleOne]

I agree...In my opinion too much emphasis is placed on these Purell type products instead of proper and frequent hand washing.

 

I would think that the over-emphasis on hand sanitizing with the whole "washy washy" thing might actually contribute to outbreaks, since many people think the hand sanitizers help with noro (when they do not), and therefore they might wash their hands less often and/or less thoroughly than they normally would.

[smalltimecruiser100]

Hope they disinfect those shuttle buses as well.

[Eleris]

If the antibacterial cannot really kill it then why would they think the bathroom soap would. I am not arguing about washing your hands because that is just good hygiene but if the soap is not helping could that be why this spread so quickly? If Clorox actually kills this beast then is this just a falsehood with the soap as well as the antibacterial. Is there anything else they could put in the soap dispensers that would work better?

[antsnanny]

The CDC still recommends the use of hand sanitizers for the prevention of Noro. That said, they stress not to replace the sanitizers with hand washing. I was wondering why on CC we are all under the impression the use of these hand sanitizers are deemed useless in prevention of Noro? Is the CDC wrong on this one?

[antsnanny]

We were on the Brilliance last week, and I was asked to use the hand sanitizers when entering the Windjammer Cafe. I told the crew member that I had already used hand sanitizer when I boarded, and he insisted that I use it before I could enter the WJ.

 

When we went into the dining room, they never even checked if we used the hand sanitizers.

 

I would think thats because you would be serving yourself at the buffet and there trying to keep the common things that we all touch germ free.

[foxgoodrich]

If the antibacterial cannot really kill it then why would they think the bathroom soap would. I am not arguing about washing your hands because that is just good hygiene but if the soap is not helping could that be why this spread so quickly? If Clorox actually kills this beast then is this just a falsehood with the soap as well as the antibacterial. Is there anything else they could put in the soap dispensers that would work better?

 

Bathroom soap doesn't kill the virus. What it does is create a situation where 'stuff' slides right off your hands and down the drain. And soap alone won't accomplish this miracle, some abrasion is needed - like rubbing your hands together and rubbing all the surfaces with soap. So if you wash with soap and wash long enough and well enough, you'll wash off a whole bunch of microbes, bacteria, and virus particles.

Judy

[gb_cruise]

There are statistics and then there is what one does with statistics.

 

Noro outbreaks on cruise ships have to be reported to the CDC once there are 3% of the passengers on board infected.

 

On a ship with 3100 passengers, that means at least 93 passengers must be infected. So a Voyager class ship with 90 such cases would not have to report this and would not be included in the statistics.

 

So the numbers from ahecht really only reflect the number of reportable incidents, not the number of actual incidents.

 

As a side note, the only commentary that I saw from a CDC official regarding Noro on cruise ships focused on three primary methods of reducing outbreaks.

1) Having everyone on board regularly wash their hands.

2) Cleaning using specified products and methods.

3) Having buffets served by servers and not self-serve.

 

Does anyone have a link to information on how the CDC calculates if an illness event counts as a Noro outbreak as per the standards outlined above for reporting? I thought the threshold was lower than 3%?

[midwestchick]

I agree...In my opinion too much emphasis is placed on these Purell type products instead of proper and frequent hand washing.

 

 

[squadron]

It's been well established on here that the hand sanitizers do nothing to Noro. They are antibacterial and noro is a virus. What they ought to be asking people is when is the last time they washed their hands.

 

This doesn't really fit in I guess but my daughter pointed out Disney hasn't had an outbreak of noro - why would that be? Better cleaning? Can't believe parents and all those children are more diligent than passengers on other cruise lines about hand washing and handling utensils in the buffet.

[foxgoodrich]

The CDC still recommends the use of hand sanitizers for the prevention of Noro. That said, they stress not to replace the sanitizers with hand washing. I was wondering why on CC we are all under the impression the use of these hand sanitizers are deemed useless in prevention of Noro? Is the CDC wrong on this one?

 

I think you got that backwards! Here's what I saw on the CDC site:

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers can be used in addition to hand washing. But, they should not be used as a substitute for washing with soap and water.

 

What they are stressing is hand washing. They say sanitizers CAN be used in addition.

Judy

[BND]

This doesn't really fit in I guess but my daughter pointed out Disney hasn't had an outbreak of noro - why would that be? Better cleaning? Can't believe parents and all those children are more diligent than passengers on other cruise lines about hand washing and handling utensils in the buffet.

 

Well, to begin with Disney has a lot fewer ships than other cruise lines do. Disney ships have had noro onboard. There isn't a cruise line that hasn't had noro onboard. There's also not a school, church, etc that hasn't had someone have it. Noro is everywhere. Whether anyone catches it is dependent on some variables. Just as everyone onboard EX didn't catch it, not everyone that is exposed in restaurants, malls, etc catches it either. Disney could very well be the next line with a big outbreak.

 

Every cruise I've been on has had people cleaning constantly. Once again, this is a matter of individual's hygiene more than it is the ship itself.

Edited January 30, 2014 by BND

[styles27]

The CDC still recommends the use of hand sanitizers for the prevention of Noro. That said, they stress not to replace the sanitizers with hand washing. I was wondering why on CC we are all under the impression the use of these hand sanitizers are deemed useless in prevention of Noro? Is the CDC wrong on this one?

 

 

The CDC clearly states that the hand sanitizers should be used in addition to proper hand washing and also states that the sanitizers alone do not kill Noro.

 

 

 

Also they stress not to replace hand washing with sanitizers...not what you posted above which is the opposite of what is stated on their site.

[styles27]

I think you got that backwards! Here's what I saw on the CDC site:

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers can be used in addition to hand washing. But, they should not be used as a substitute for washing with soap and water.

 

What they are stressing is hand washing. They say sanitizers CAN be used in addition.

Judy

 

Exactly

[rpb718]

Well, to begin with Disney has a lot fewer ships than other cruise lines do. Disney ships have had noro onboard. There isn't a cruise line that hasn't had noro onboard. There's also not a school, church, etc that hasn't had someone have it. Noro is everywhere. Whether anyone catches it is dependent on some variables. Just as everyone onboard EX didn't catch it, not everyone that is exposed in restaurants, malls, etc catches it either. Disney could very well be the next line with a big outbreak.

 

Every cruise I've been on has had people cleaning constantly. Once again, this is a matter of individual's hygiene more than it is the ship itself.

 

There's a post on the Disney board titled: "2 adults just off Disney Dream - Good, the bad and the Noro". Not an outbreak but does indicate Disney may not be as immune to the problem as folks want to believe.

[Trainman-2]

Some un-flattering coverage on FOX News tonight.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/01/29/cruise-ship-returns-after-nearly-700-fall-ill-highlighting-risks-getting-sick/?intcmp=latestnews

 

A relative of a Fox reporter was on the ship and said that when they first got into their cabin it had not been cleaned. :eek:

[gracecarmo]

I use (in addition to hand washing) a product called Soapopular. It contains benzaalkonium chloride. Non alcohol. Literature on the web says it may be good for virus, and Noro.

It is not sold in the US, and a friend in Canada sent me some.

 

Unfortunately, I forgot to pack it on our Summit New England trip, and got Noro! First time in 54 cruises.

[MIcruiser99]

I would think thats because you would be serving yourself at the buffet and there trying to keep the common things that we all touch germ free.

 

I had just used a hand sanitizer before going to the WJ, or I would not have mentioned it.

 

I am paranoid about getting sick so I am constantly washing my hands which really is going to help against noro.

[midwestchick]

This doesn't really fit in I guess but my daughter pointed out Disney hasn't had an outbreak of noro - why would that be? Better cleaning? Can't believe parents and all those children are more diligent than passengers on other cruise lines about hand washing and handling utensils in the buffet.

 

That's not true...Disney Magic 11-11-11-21, 2002 Noro Virus

Disney Magic 6-2-6-5, 2000 Salmonella outbreak

Edited January 30, 2014 by midwestchick

[antsnanny]

I think you got that backwards! Here's what I saw on the CDC site:

Alcohol-based hand sanitizers can be used in addition to hand washing. But, they should not be used as a substitute for washing with soap and water.

 

What they are stressing is hand washing. They say sanitizers CAN be used in addition.

Judy

 

Yes, sorry if I didn't word that correctly. I am curious.. Why if these hand sanitizers do nothing to help the spread of Noro why would they state they can be used at all? Why even mention them?

[cpj]

Approximately 25% of the passengers took ill. That means that approximately 75% of the passengers did NOT get ill. Don't get me wrong, I would not want to be one of the 25%, but this stuff happens this time of year no matter where you are. Last Christmas, it went around my immediate family. Out of 8 of us, 5 got sick - an even higher percentage than this outbreak, and believe me I cleaned my little heart out, and we all washed our hands until they were practically raw:).

 

Provided they are doing all they can (and my experience has been that they are very diligent in these situations), then I think cruise lines really get the short end of the stick with this stuff. It is not their fault passengers bring it onboard. (sometimes a crew member, but as they are a 'captive audience' cruise to cruise I suspect it is more likely to be a passenger). It is not their fault that it is super contagious. And yet they are the ones who get stuck with major financial set-backs. And then there is the vicious press with their constant headlines about the 'cruise ship virus' - as if.

 

I am absolutely not without sympathy for those impacted on this cruise, but I think the cruise line is doing all they can in all likelihood.

 

I think there a lot more they can do. Make the buffets self serve. Close the casino during an outbreak. Also give the people who clean the cabins less cabins to clean so they can do a better job. Also bring in crew sanitizing crew before each cruise especially after a cruise that had some issues. Dump the produce from the ship that had issues from a previous cruise.

[MIcruiser99]

I'll be on Brilliance one week from today...hoping for a ship full of healthy hand washing passengers.

 

Did you enjoy the cruise and was it warm? lol I mean on the sea days...it's been in the teens and single digits here in MA the past couple of days.

 

When we got to Tampa, it was cold - 50's, and when we returned, it was colder! 40's!

 

The sea days and port days were much better when we got farther south. We were on the Grand Cayman/Coz route, and both days were beautiful. I think it was high 70's in Coz, and 80's in GC.

[uncleah]

Hope they disinfect those shuttle buses as well.

 

When we got on the bus this afternoon, the driver said they were disinfecting the bus between trips.

[Posaune]

There is a Purell product that does help with noro. This has been discussed on the Princess boards recently. https://handwashingforlife.com/files/hw4l_HandSani_Purell.pdf

[styles27]

When we got to Tampa, it was cold - 50's, and when we returned, it was colder! 40's!

 

The sea days and port days were much better when we got farther south. We were on the Grand Cayman/Coz route, and both days were beautiful. I think it was high 70's in Coz, and 80's in GC.

 

Thank you! My mother in law lives about 40 min south of Tampa and she's been telling us how chilly it's been there this winter. Oh well...I guess even those temps are much better than what we're having here. lol

 

Thank you!