Why the Navy Ships Don't Seem to Get Norovirus

[rodan]

The ships are doing the best they can and it is unfair to even compare a military ship with a civilian one for all the reasons given here. Its true that there are selfish or should I say inconsiderate people who do not care if they wash their hands,or cough on to their food but most people do care and that is why the outbreaks are not as bad as they could be. I have cruised nearly 30 years and I would say that in the first 10 years of cruising you never heard of a Noro outbreak but that changed as cruising became more affordable due to the larger ships that meant more people coming from everywhere and of every age. Think about it 20-30 years ago there were no children or should I say hardly any children sailing on a cruise ship. In addition I feel one of the major culprits was the self service buffets for breakfast and lunch and dinner. In the 80's and even early 90's most people ate all 3 meals in the dining room-they did not get a chance to interact with the food as they do today in the buffet style dining rooms found on all ships. Noro is an unfortunate by-product of the success of the cruising industry but I believe as time goes by it will become less of an issue and the unfortunate outbreaks will soon become yesterday's news. Noro is is not a pleasant experience but believe me getting seasick is a far worse experience and that has been going on since the first boat got out into the ocean waters.

[BecciBoo]

Well lets face it, it's an impossibility to create and maintain a sterile environment on a ship. Even hospitals, which attempt it cannot measure up...most hospitals are the most contagious place one can enter.

 

It amazes me that women who are trying to avoid contamination from toilet seats then proceed to pee all over them...disgusting.:mad: It is better to sit down, let the epidermis do the job for which it was intended than make a cess pool out of the seat for the next person! I mean, be the solution not part of the problem!!!!! Pet peeve....sorry:o I just hate cleaning up after some filthy pig!:rolleyes: And then there are those who can't even be bothered to flush the darn thing!!!!

Edited March 6, 2014 by BecciBoo

[GaryfmCol]

As someone who also was in the Navy there is two other issues that you are not considering:

 

1) service members are technically "government property" and therefore the government can enforce a lot more cleanliness standards than private citizens who are paying to sail. Another issue that solves it was mentioned i.e. the GI shower. When you have a crew mate who has less than desirable hygiene the fellow shipmates deal with it and there are few if any consequences. On a cruise ship other passengers can't do that and often the crew takes an attitude of "we can't do anything" out of not wanting to lose the revenue from an unhappy cruiser. The government has being happy at or near the bottom list of their concerns when it comes to hygiene and cleanliness.

 

2) service members aboard ship live together for months to years. Unlike cruisers who might be on board for up to 28 days. When you put animals or humans in a close environment eventually the immune system builds up from the continuous exposure to each other and the bugs in that environment so they become more resistant to getting sick. Cruisers are on board with each other for as little as a few days and as clean as that cabin looks after the previous occupant left, we all know that not ever cabin attendant cleans to the same standard. All it takes is a less than thorough job in cabins where the occupants don't have good hand washing or hygiene combined with a constant influx and departure of new immune systems for the chance of an outbreak of SOMETHING to get a foothold that even the heartiest of travelers cannot overcome.

 

Hoo-boy...

 

A "GI SHOWER"....?????

I have not heard that term in many, many years...

 

I was in the NAVY, and, loved it, took pride as a sailor, "back then".

 

Even from back then, I remember a guy named "Myles", that was not very hygenic...and, he was given a "G.I. Shower"...

They used "scrub brushes" on him....

 

I think he got the message. He became pretty "squared away" after that.

 

I think now-a-days in the NAVY, that would be a court martial offense...

but, when I was in the NAVY, it wasn't....

 

The new NAVY isn't like the old NAVY....:rolleyes:

[amster65]

I was in the old Navy also. We had a much bigger problem than Noro onboard our carrier which was deployed in the Pacific. Venereal Disease. Every sailor went ashore with a pack of rubbers, and most came back with them...........

[Clydesmom7865]

Hoo-boy...

 

A "GI SHOWER"....?????

I have not heard that term in many, many years...

 

I was in the NAVY, and, loved it, took pride as a sailor, "back then".

 

Even from back then, I remember a guy named "Myles", that was not very hygenic...and, he was given a "G.I. Shower"...

They used "scrub brushes" on him....

 

I think he got the message. He became pretty "squared away" after that.

 

I think now-a-days in the NAVY, that would be a court martial offense...

but, when I was in the NAVY, it wasn't....

 

The new NAVY isn't like the old NAVY....:rolleyes:

 

GI Shower is more Army than Navy. We called them "bucket brigades" and my Corps School intructor discussed how he knew at least ONE would happen in each class every term.

 

He went on to describe how there is always that ONE sailor who believes personal hygiene is "optional" and has that one uniform they wear 24/7 and one set of sheets on their rack. He said "don't think I won't know who you are either. First your shipmates eyes start watering. Then the "fanning" starts in a veiled attempt to dissipate the smell and it ends with everyone but the offending sailor pulling their desk in a tight circle around the instructor to avoid the person."

 

He went on to say that eventually your ship mates will tire of your odor and stench and will take matters into their own hands. If they use the metal scrub brushes typically used on the steel deck of a ship he isn't going to intervene.

 

It took a couple of weeks and we had a candidate. A couple of people spoke to him and he didn't see or smell the problem. Several days later with a dozen buckets of soapy water, the hard bristle scrub brushes and hard cake soap you used on those white leggings with they eyelets we cornered him and got the job done. He too learned his lesson and got squared away.

 

You are SO right that the "new" Navy is not what we experienced. You can't even do good natured hazing anymore. Like when we sent one new guy all over the base with a requisition for the light bulb repair kit! :D The one that got us in trouble and had us doing a few push ups for the C.O. was the guy who we sent all over creation on the base getting signatures on a req for fallopian tubes. :eek: Unfortunately the C.O. was a woman and an OBGYN who was not amused. She said if we were that bored she could find something for us to do. I don't even want to think about what that might have been. The guy we hazed got sent to a health class about reproduction so that hopefully he would not knock up some townie not knowing how that happened. SIGH. Some days I miss all that. Then I sober up. :cool:

[Murray's Pop]

I am sure a new pack of cards isn't used every day.

 

Just an FYI, decks of cards are changed several times a day. Casinos do that to help prevent "card marking" and, new cards are easier for the dealers as well as viewing from the "eye in the sky".

[Clydesmom7865]

I actually think cruise ships are more thoroughly cleaned than the Navy ships. Don't we see that on every single cruise, every day??? I do on RCCL at least. I've seen the same brass banister rail cleaned and polished every single day by the same person...I took special note of it.

 

The banister rail isn't the source of the problem. They don't clean many areas of the ships with that kind of detail. That is PR cleaning not sanitary cleaning.

 

The problem is the passengers who use the public restroom and don't wash their hands. They contaminate the door when leaving so that the ones who DO wash are then contaminated. The problem is that they also return to the buffet after not having washed and then handle the utensils which are then picked up by other unsuspecting passengers or staff.

 

The restroom doors, elevator buttons, food utensils in the buffet during serving (unless they fall on the floor etc), etc. are all not cleaned and polished to the degree that those high profile railings are.

 

Add to that the ones who don't do a good job "cleaning" while in the restroom and then get in a pool or hot tub creating an e-coli soup to share it gets worse. While I agree that the issue is the passengers I hardly think it is necessary to call anyone who doesn't live in a barnyard and oink a "filthy pig" even if you do put a smiley after it.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Clydesmom7865

[jimmy2x]

"Sailors are experts at cleaning.

That's why they make such good housewives after their service!"

 

We squids always like the Marines - figured every sailor should own one.

Edited March 6, 2014 by jimmy2x

[jimmy2x]

delete

Edited March 6, 2014 by jimmy2x

[Wine-O]

"Sailors are experts at cleaning.

That's why they make such good housewives after their service!"

 

We squids always like the Marines - figured every sailor should own one.

 

We usually characterize it as 238 years of tradition, 3 years of progress. :D

 

Just kidding -- Semper Fi to all my USMC buddies.

[Clydesmom7865]

We usually characterize it as 238 years of tradition, 3 years of progress. :D

 

Just kidding -- Semper Fi to all my USMC buddies.

 

LOL

 

In the Navy we say NAVY stands for Never Again Volunteer Yourself.

[rnrcruzin]

We in the Air Force sometimes had to go a week before we got clean sheets.

[GaryfmCol]

GI Shower is more Army than Navy. We called them "bucket brigades" and my Corps School intructor discussed how he knew at least ONE would happen in each class every term.

 

He went on to describe how there is always that ONE sailor who believes personal hygiene is "optional" and has that one uniform they wear 24/7 and one set of sheets on their rack. He said "don't think I won't know who you are either. First your shipmates eyes start watering. Then the "fanning" starts in a veiled attempt to dissipate the smell and it ends with everyone but the offending sailor pulling their desk in a tight circle around the instructor to avoid the person."

 

He went on to say that eventually your ship mates will tire of your odor and stench and will take matters into their own hands. If they use the metal scrub brushes typically used on the steel deck of a ship he isn't going to intervene.

 

It took a couple of weeks and we had a candidate. A couple of people spoke to him and he didn't see or smell the problem. Several days later with a dozen buckets of soapy water, the hard bristle scrub brushes and hard cake soap you used on those white leggings with they eyelets we cornered him and got the job done. He too learned his lesson and got squared away.

 

You are SO right that the "new" Navy is not what we experienced. You can't even do good natured hazing anymore. Like when we sent one new guy all over the base with a requisition for the light bulb repair kit! :D The one that got us in trouble and had us doing a few push ups for the C.O. was the guy who we sent all over creation on the base getting signatures on a req for fallopian tubes. :eek: Unfortunately the C.O. was a woman and an OBGYN who was not amused. She said if we were that bored she could find something for us to do. I don't even want to think about what that might have been. The guy we hazed got sent to a health class about reproduction so that hopefully he would not knock up some townie not knowing how that happened. SIGH. Some days I miss all that. Then I sober up. :cool:

 

Excellent read! ;)

I loved the NAVY...B-T-W..

[mom says]

The CNN article may have been accurate in its descriptions of infection control protocols aboart US Naval ships. But trying to equate life aboard a naval ship on deployment and life aboard a cruise ship is ludicrous. The only thing they have in common is that they both sail on water.

 

No cruise line can hope to implement the MANDATORY screening done by the navy. And sailors do not face exposure to possible pathogens from as many sources as cruise ship passengers.The article was pointless when it comes to Noro on cruise snips.

[navybankerteacher]

Probably one key aspect is the fact that on a cruise ship you get a thousand or so new potential disease transmitters boarding every week or so, while a Navy ship has a fairly static complement - who are probably gradually building up immunities from each other's "hitch hikers".

 

I agree that today's Navy is a different thing from the outfit I joined - much more "correct", no more "rocks and shoals" (if anyone even knows that term any more). No sending a green SA up to the bow with a boat hook to snag the mail buoy, or down to the engine room to get some relative bearing grease.

[dsrdsrdsr]

The really filthy beasts are the ones who use the toilet, pull up and fasten their trousers with filthy hands, and then go about their daily routine. It should be automatic that you go back to the cabin, change the contaminated trousers and put them in the laundry, and wash (or prefereably shower) before putting new ones on. Every time.

 

How many of you use the toilet and then hitch up your pants? Many. How many of you disinfect your belt? Few. You're letting us all down.

[Aquahound]

I agree that today's Navy is a different thing from the outfit I joined - much more "correct", no more "rocks and shoals" (if anyone even knows that term any more). No sending a green SA up to the bow with a boat hook to snag the mail buoy, or down to the engine room to get some relative bearing grease.

 

Ahh yes, every SA has searched for relative bearing grease, radar fluid or prop wash at some point in their infancy. I'm fairly modern and I know those terms and hazings quite well. ;)

 

Re the original topic, I'll pass on naming some of the specific, obvious differences because it is sure to offend some, but there is a big difference between cruise ship passengers and military sailors. The reason for noro not being quite so common as on cruise ships should be fairly obvious.

[janice2348]

Well lets face it, it's an impossibility to create and maintain a sterile environment on a ship. Even hospitals, which attempt it cannot measure up...most hospitals are the most contagious place one can enter.

 

It amazes me that women who are trying to avoid contamination from toilet seats then proceed to pee all over them...disgusting.:mad: It is better to sit down, let the epidermis do the job for which it was intended than make a cess pool out of the seat for the next person! I mean, be the solution not part of the problem!!!!! Pet peeve....sorry:o I just hate cleaning up after some filthy pig!:rolleyes: And then there are those who can't even be bothered to flush the darn thing!!!!

 

I never understood the logic behind this myself. Then I get a wet butt when I sit down. It is truly disgusting...not sure why women think they will catch something if they sit down. Also, it's bad for the bladder...you can't really empty it standing up.

[Hlitner]

The article cited by the OP is a lot of "bunk." And here is why? We hear about Noro outbreaks on cruise ships (which represent fewer then 2% of Noro where 98% happen on land) because there is required government reporting of such outbreaks. Most other venues never report outbreaks because they often have no clue. As to Navy ships, if and when they have some Noro on a ship it is not generally reported. Unlike in the cruise industry, there is no penalty (financial or otherwise) to a sailor who goes to "sick bay" when they are ill. The sailor does not have to fear being denied the ability to cruise nor do they have to pay for medical care. Instead, they are quickly isolated in the "sick bay" and get excellent medical support until they can go back to work. Unlike on a cruise ship, they do not have to pay a penny for this care...and their only penalty (besides feeling awful) is that they get a few days off from work (with full pay).

 

In addition, unlike cruise ships which are routinely in and out of ports where passengers are exposed to lots of germs/viruses ashore (including Noro), Naval vessels are often at sea for many months at a time without any port calls. So after about a week at sea the Naval vessel becomes essentially a closed environment with no exposure to land-based bugs.

 

There is nothing quite like a cruise ship environment other then a major resorts and All Inclusives. And most of these our outside the USA where mandatory reporting does not exist...and in fact, some of these places may well try to cover-up any kind of outbreak so as not to jeopardize future business.

 

We think the sad thing about Noro and the cruise industry is that, thanks to our wonderful press who loves to report half-stories, there is now a public perception that Noro is an exclusive problem for the cruise industry. It might be helpful if, whenever the press reports on cruise ship Noro outbreaks, they add a paragraph explaining that at least 98% of all Noro cases occur on land.

 

Hank

 

P.S. In response to a prior post, one can easily discover that Norovirus does not discriminate based on age, sex, color of eyes, hair, race, etc. It is an "equal opportunity" virus :)

Edited March 7, 2014 by Hlitner

[calex]

According to the CDC (http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm), there have been 3 gastrointestinal outbreaks on cruise ships in the last 2 weeks. With 8 incidences on cruise ships so far in 2014, it appears the pace of outbreaks has increased again compared to the 9 outbreaks in 2013.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

If the cruise lines allowed the employees to enforce the rules it would greatly reduce the problem.

 

Many times a attendant will be in a restroom to open the door. Passengers will walk out without washing their hands. Asked the attendant about it and was told that we can't do anything.

 

Seen people reusing a glass or filling up a personal bottle at a bev station. Was told that we can't do anything.

 

People using their fingers at the buffet. Same answer, we can't do anything.

 

The problem is those passengers that caused the problems because they don't want to be responsible or feel that they are excluded from rules that are an insult to them and are quick to blame the cruise lines if they get the virus.

 

 

.🌅🚢🍸🍻

That would be great ..