Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[clmom]

You are right. THere was no a cappella group last week on Reflection.

yes there was an a capella group on board last week. The men's group...can't remember their name. They were on for only 1 night in the Theater

[Germancruiser]

Thanks for the X - offical for considering the complains about the much to loud music.

Some poster wrote about the guys who don´t like LOUD MUSIC and considered them as boring, reading, complaing folk- never read any more poppyock than that!

[Germancruiser]

I just forgot- I highly recommend Cunard, if one want´s a nice an quite cruise experience, with wonderful music and one is still able to make a nice conversation. After my Eclipse cruise with all the loud music around the whole ship- I moved to Cunard for a change- and loved it. Since I really like the X- experience and their ships and the service and the absolutly friendly staff I give it another try in a few weeks time! Nothing against the friendyness of the Cunard staff and such- but Cuanrd ships are not always were I want them to be. LOL!

[4cats4me]

Hi all,

 

We have been reading the comments on this thread, as well as the other thread. While we don't want to comment on the demographics discussion, as well as who we are attracting, we can say that we are looking into the music issue to determine if and why it is too loud. Apologies that we can't comment any further (at least for now), but wanted to at least let everyone know that we aren't ignoring these discussions, and are in fact looking into this.

 

 

I really enjoyed the loud music on last April's cruise. Everyone in our party did. That was one of the main reasons we rebooked again for this year, due to the fact that it was a lively cruise with a great party band,great music at the martini bar, unlike boring Princess cruise for the umpteenth time

our group consisted of people ages 49, 53, 59 and 60 years of age, FYI

We enjoyed all the music, as a matter of fact.

Edited March 5, 2014 by 4cats4me

[TravelerThom]

Are all your ships going out empty? Or at bargain basement rates?

When we oldies die off you'll have plenty of time to change the direction you've spent years to perfect.

Most of us complaining (I think) are in the 50-60's range, and we've still got 20-30 good years of cruising left in us. Don't ruin it for us now.

I think the JC Penney analogy, the quantitative decibel level measurements and the survey are all great ideas. Take heed, please.

Actually Celebrity one week cruises are now sailing at the cheapest prices in some time. Thanks (IMO) to current management policies Celebrity prices have pretty much crashed. Looking at the remainder of March and all of April 2014:

 

Celebrity has 13 cruises out of Florida that are exactly one week long. The entry level base fare on these cruises range from $64 to $75 per person per night.

 

Sister line RCI (which has significantly more ships) has 25 cruises out of Florida that are exactly one week long. The entry level base fare on these cruises range from $71 to $405 per person per night. I certainly think that the $405pp/night is non-representative (presumable virtually sold-out), but only 2 of 25 RCI cruises are as cheap as the most expensive Celebrity cruise.

 

All of these Celebrity cruises are on ships (Reflection and Silhouette) newer than any of the RCI ships. Newer ships, "Modern Luxury", lower prices - something seems wrong. I think if I was the boss of RCCL (the parent of both Celebrity and RCI) I would be questioning Celebrity's management plan.

 

Thom

[wallie5446]

Ok folks, step back to before you retired or were still operating a business day to day. ( don't start takin shots, I'm not just lookin at this )

20-25,000 paying customers every week coming thru the door, some for the first time, some repeat clients. You keep tweaking your presentation, you get 50-100 comments versa 20,000+ weekly reservations that your tweaking is not liked. Your ROI is doing good, during peak times you are drawing high average guest check $$. Your stock price and dividends keep investors buying shares, and clients booking. BUT that 50 to 100 clients are not happy campers. Your business, your $$. Yea, it don't feel good, but everyone here knows what they would do.

Not saying I like it, but I understand it, and I like the way my Mutual Funds that own the shares are doing, versa the way it was 7 years ago when the dividends would not pay our bar tab.:D

[NLH Arizona]

For some reason studies have been done in the restaurant industry that have concluded that higher volume means people tend to drink more - therefore they sell more alcohol. Maybe they drink more at that point, but that kind of noise volume will help kill the hearing of their staff and customers. If they contribute to the hearing loss of people in their 30's & 40's, then they will loose them by their late 50's because at any age, our personal loud speakers (our ears) aren't any happier than mechanical speakers which ODed. Is this what they want?

 

Not only do people drink more, they eat faster, thus the restaurant can turn the tables more frequently.

 

As for killing the hearing of their staff and customers, the music is not played at a level that would do that, at least not in any bar or restaurant I've been in. I was in the music industry for over 30 years and have been to probably 2,000+ concerts over the years. Just had my hearing check and I have no hearing loss and trust me, many of the concerts I attended were probably 20 to 30 or more times louder than the music played in restaurants or on Celebrity.

[NLH Arizona]

I'm in my 20's and I've been to my fair share of loud restaurants, loud bars, loud weddings, and I'm usually the one complaining to my friends that the music is too loud. I sailed the Reflection in January (which was fantastic by the way) and the music was not loud. I mean, it was more thumping at the pool at certain times, and at the Martini bar and in the atrium during dinner hours. But much quieter than any wedding I've been to in the past year. If you didn't like it, there were PLENTY of places to go that were quiet. Sunset bar, the lounges by the specialty restaurants, the solarium, the grassy area, and lots more.

 

I remember there were earlier posts about how Celebrity was now playing rap music all over the place. I'm sorry, but if you think Katy Perry and Lady Gaga is rap, you're really showing your ignorance. We all know that music tastes are very personal and generational and everyone will dislike some of the music on the ship. But that is why they have such a large variety, so that there will be at least something for everyone.

 

I know that Celebrity is trying to attract young urban professionals in their 20's to 40's, and I think they're doing the right things. Focus on cuisine and food demos for the foodie movement that is popular, great bars, a wide variety in entertainment (I loved the a cappella group and the all the broadway numbers in the theatre), clean and modern looking spaces. Unless you want cruising to disappear completely like the way of Blockbuster and CompUsa, you will need to accept that they will have to change with the times.

Very well said. I'm in my 60's and I want to hear today's music, not just easy listening. They need to play a variety of musical genres, not just one kind, so that everyone can enjoy different types of music. If they ever go all easy listening, jazz and classical, I might have to find a more up-to-date cruise line to spend my vacation dollars with. And I want to be able to hear it and not have to listen to the conversations of those around me.

[MissBreezy]

Wow, you guys sure know how to make a young gal feel welcome...

 

So Celebrity shouldn't be catering to a specific age range unless they happen to be catering to your age range then it's A-OK, yes?

 

I'm expected to happily shell out $7000 for a cruise but I can't expect the cruise line to be inclusive of my tastes because the older set has decided the company can't evolve?

 

FTR, I don't enjoy zip lines, body shots, rock walls or insanely loud music either but it seems like every time this topic comes up it turns into a NO YOUNGIN'S debate.

[NLH Arizona]

Wow, you guys sure know how to make a young gal feel welcome...

 

So Celebrity shouldn't be catering to a specific age range unless they happen to be catering to your age range then it's A-OK, yes?

 

I'm expected to happily shell out $7000 for a cruise but I can't expect the cruise line to be inclusive of my tastes because the older set has decided the company can't evolve?

 

FTR, I don't enjoy zip lines, body shots, rock walls or insanely loud music either but it seems like every time this topic comes up it turns into a NO YOUNGIN'S debate.

You should feel very welcomed on Celebrity! Please remember that those on cruise critic probably only amount to 1 or 2 percent of Celebrity's total customers.

 

BTW, there are many of us "older folks" that enjoy today's music and want to hear more of it while we cruise.

[Germancruiser]

Oh dear- some just don´t get it- it is not about the music in general- most of us " loud music complainers" are really fond of music- it is just TOOOOOOO LOUDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!

[MissBreezy]

You should feel very welcomed on Celebrity! Please remember that those on cruise critic probably only amount to 1 or 2 percent of Celebrity's total customers.

 

BTW, there are many of us "older folks" that enjoy today's music and want to hear more of it while we cruise.

 

For sure! We chose Celebrity because we aren't big partiers and we enjoy a more "mature" atmosphere, it seemed like a great compromise between RCCL and other lines like Cunard. There's definitely a time and place for certain types of music and volume, I totally agree on that front.

 

We are definitely looking forward to it!

[lilghallinsf]

Well put brezzy

[CanWeGoYet?]

Interesting information, but according to your signature, it doesn't look like you've ever been on a Carnival ship, so I'm not sure how you can describe it as the "Carnivalization of Celebrity".

 

I was just on the Carnival Glory in October, and at no point was the music anywhere near as loud as you described. In fact, I was surprised at just how subdued all of the entertainment was, based on the stereotypical description of Carnival.

 

 

As you can see by my signature, our Reflection cruise in about a month will be our first Celebrity experience, so I can't offer a direct comparison, but I'm hoping Celebrity is a step up from Carnival. I felt Carnival was a Holiday Inn experience, and I'm hoping Celebrity is a Marriott or Hyatt type experience.

 

If your experience on your first Celebrity cruise is anything like mine, you will find that it is a very good cruise and the two lines have far more commonalities than differences. This goes for food, service, and fellow passengers.

I've had a lot of fun on Carnival so I don't know to what you are referring. The only time I ever heard loud music on any of my 5 Carnival cruises was sailing into Venice and they were playing Pavarotti. It was not intrusive. Maybe it is a Celebrity thing and we should be afraid that this will spread to the other lines. I guess it bothers me that every bad cruise experience is a Carnival thing.

 

 

This is just typical. Any cruise with a problem is "carnivalized" and the people who make these sorts of posts know what a distasteful and inferior line Carnival is while generally never having set foot on a carnival ship.

 

From those who post they want good value, a lively martini bar & pool side music to those saying they don't want a zip line or bumper cars - well Carnival has good value and decent service - and also no zip lines or bumper cars.

But if all one does is cherry pick what rumors or news reports fit their view, then it is easy to form a mental picture of a cruise line that may or may not have much bearing to reality.

 

Just like the cruise commercials - whether celebrity, carnival, princess, etc. The models in the ads probably don't look much like your average passenger on any of the cruise lines. Image and marketing. I suppose if we want to believe cruising that line makes us look like that model or fit whatever stereotype they are trying to project - then they have done their job.

[VK3DQ]

What is "Modern" or "Luxury" about having to yell so the person sitting next to you at dinner can hear you?

 

if this is celebrity's vision far enough , just let us know so we can take our custom elsewhere.

 

regards

john

[cibumcupio]

What is "Modern" or "Luxury" about having to yell so the person sitting next to you at dinner can hear you?

 

if this is celebrity's vision far enough , just let us know so we can take our custom elsewhere.

 

regards

john

 

On our Reflection cruise in January there was no music played during dinner, and that was great. On RCI there was, along with the singing waiters every other night, and that was not so great.

 

Look, I don't think Celebrity is actively trying to get rid of a certain demographic, only trying to appeal to a younger demographic as well. So maybe it used to be 100% of the music was geared towards people 60's plus, and now they're trying to find music that appeals to all ages. Maybe 50% for those 60 and up and 50% for those 60 and under. Is that so bad? Why does cruising need to appeal to a very specific type and age of person? Why can't it be for everyone?

 

And though it's not wise to say "take your business elsewhere" as Alexander did, I understand it though. Every cruise there are people who will complain and complain, and I'm sure it's not the first time he's heard these particular complaints. And what was he supposed to say? Okay we'll change Celebrity to meet your tastes and ignore all the other people who say they like it? I don't think he should have said what he said, but what he said is true. If you don't like a product, then buy something else. That's what the free market is for.

 

Being part of the younger demographic, there were many during our cruise who asked us why we were on a cruise, since cruises are apparently not for young people. We always answered because we like the ocean, we like the great food that you don't have to hunt down every night, we like being able to visit multiple locations on one trip without the hassle of traveling, we like the shows, we like the relaxation, we like the value, and we like just being on a ship. A lot of my friends who have tried cruising would say the same things, and I'm sure a lot of you would too. And we like Celebrity the best because of the food.

[grandgeezer]

Celebrity has a product and if they want to change it, they have every right to do so. We, as consumers have the right to buy any product we want. We have a Celebrity cruise booked next month and at that time we'll make the determination if we want to continue with them or move on. We used to be big Holland fans and their product changed and we moved on and never looked back. Even though we are Elite Plus, if we don't enjoy the cruise, we'll move on, without batting a lash at all the free perks we get.

With as competitive as the cruise market is, and the amount of new capacity coming on, Celebrity should be careful not to alienate a big segment of their retun customers or people who might become repeat customers. If this is preview of the whole cruise industry, my favorite condo, on the beach on Maui is still there and it's not too noisy.

[TravelerThom]

Actually Celebrity one week cruises are now sailing at the cheapest prices in some time. Thanks (IMO) to current management policies Celebrity prices have pretty much crashed. Looking at the remainder of March and all of April 2014:

 

Celebrity has 13 cruises out of Florida that are exactly one week long. The entry level base fare on these cruises range from $64 to $75 per person per night.

 

Sister line RCI (which has significantly more ships) has 25 cruises out of Florida that are exactly one week long. The entry level base fare on these cruises range from $71 to $405 per person per night. I certainly think that the $405pp/night is non-representative (presumable virtually sold-out), but only 2 of 25 RCI cruises are as cheap as the most expensive Celebrity cruise.

 

All of these Celebrity cruises are on ships (Reflection and Silhouette) newer than any of the RCI ships. Newer ships, "Modern Luxury", lower prices - something seems wrong. I think if I was the boss of RCCL (the parent of both Celebrity and RCI) I would be questioning Celebrity's management plan.

I failed to point out that entry level staterooms on RCI are 150 sq. ft. while entry level staterooms on Celebrity Reflection and Silhouette are 183 - 200 sq. ft. So in comparison to RCI, Celebrity has "luxury" reputation, newer gorgeous ships, a reputation for upscale food, significantly larger staterooms and yet is having to sell at lower prices in an attempt to fill their ships.

 

The weather in the Northeast is terrible, and has been for most of the winter; that should be increasing demand and pricing for warmer weather vacations. I just checked and all but one of Celebrity's thirteen March and April cruises from Florida that are week long start at under $500. Celebrity's website offered me a list of cabins on this coming week's Reflection at $409 (yes, that is for 7 nights, and I would be able to get OBCs from BOTH Shareholder Benefits and from my travel agent applied to this price), and I'm still not driving to the pier. I'm not saying this is entirely because of perceptions of too much noise (the "if you don't like it, go elsewhere" attitude is not helping), but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to arrive at the conclusion that Celebrity is doing something wrong.

 

Thom

[waterbug123]

Thanks (IMO) to current management policies Celebrity prices have pretty much crashed. Looking at the remainder of March and all of April 2014:

 

Celebrity has 13 cruises out of Florida that are exactly one week long. The entry level base fare on these cruises range from $64 to $75 per person per night.

 

Sister line RCI.... entry level base fare on these cruises range from $71 to $405 per person per night. I certainly think that the $405pp/night is non-representative (presumable virtually sold-out), but only 2 of 25 RCI cruises are as cheap as the most expensive Celebrity cruise.

 

I suspect that much of the RCI price average is due to the fact that Oasis and Allure continue to be able to charge a premium price for their cruises, which brings the line's overall average way up. For our cruise last week it was down to Reflection or Allure. Allure was $1000 more.

 

I failed to point out that entry level staterooms on RCI are 150 sq. ft. while entry level staterooms on Celebrity Reflection and Silhouette are 183 - 200 sq. ft. So in comparison to RCI, Celebrity has "luxury" reputation, newer gorgeous ships, a reputation for upscale food, significantly larger staterooms and yet is having to sell at lower prices in an attempt to fill their ships.

 

Perhaps you are unaware, but RCI ALSO has newer gorgeous ships, namely Oasis and Allure. Royal is also near the end of a massive fleet-wide renovation in which all but 2 ships in the fleet are getting major renovations to include overall room improvements but also many of the features of Oasis/Allure... including a number of the upscale dining venues. You are talking as though Celebrity is great and Royal sucks and still Celebrity has to discount but that's just not the case. Royal is better than ever and their prices reflect the renovations.

I don't have any official data, but I suspect that Celebrity is simply trying to appeal to a wider audience. They know they have a reputation for drawing an older crowd, and don't want to move into the future that way, so are hoping to "hook" new pax with enticing prices and offers.

 

The weather in the Northeast is terrible, and has been for most of the winter; that should be increasing demand and pricing for warmer weather vacations. I just checked and all but one of Celebrity's thirteen March and April cruises from Florida that are week long start at under $500. Celebrity's website offered me a list of cabins on this coming week's Reflection at $409 (yes, that is for 7 nights, and I would be able to get OBCs from BOTH Shareholder Benefits and from my travel agent applied to this price), and I'm still not driving to the pier. I'm not saying this is entirely because of perceptions of too much noise (the "if you don't like it, go elsewhere" attitude is not helping), but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to arrive at the conclusion that Celebrity is doing something wrong.

 

Thom

 

Maybe, just maybe, what they are doing wrong is not appealing to a wide enough audience and that's what they're trying to change. Royal has made a major effort to widen their audience. They have the whole Dreamworks thing going on to compete with Disney for families with young kids, and nurseries for babies. They've got recreational activities galore, that I suspect are largely popular with young families and teens, and they are still increasing the specialty restaurants and such for those who are are not necessarily looking for kid-friendly options.

[dodger1964]

We board Reflection this Saturday. I will pay attention and see if the "loud music" is present and if it really that loud.

 

If Alexander hasn't walked the plank I will be interested in if he has changed his tune!

[dln929]

We board Reflection this Saturday. I will pay attention and see if the "loud music" is present and if it really that loud.

 

If Alexander hasn't walked the plank I will be interested in if he has changed his tune!

 

Alexander might not have said what some people wanted to hear but that doesn't mean that he's not a nice person. Because he is. I hope you have the chance to talk to him and get to know him. He's very accessible and takes a real interest in all the guests. Try to meet him before you form an opinion. ;)

[baldercash]

People what is required to resolve this issue is a few cruisers to be proactive on their next cruise.

 

If a few people taking near future cruises on Reflection or other S class ships would purchase a Decibel meter and they post the readings we would no longer be wondering if loud is subjective or real.

The meter can be purchased purchased from Amazon for as little as $18.00.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=decibel+meter&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=30910142781&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=20757442841002120694&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&ref=pd_sl_4eczejzvt_e

 

If they encounter an unacceptable volume level ask for it to be lowered if refused document the date and time and who in the command chain refused to lower it.

If they posted this information on CC while on the ship I believe that would expedite a response by X head office.

 

If you are Elite start a petition on the ship. Survey Elite members at the nightly get together and at any CC gatherings to be sent to head office.

 

This will eliminate speculation on the volume being too loud as just an individuals opinion.

 

We encountered loud music in Blu on our most recent Millie cruise my wife and I did not notice but our friends pointed it out to us on a number of dinning occasions and we agreed it did not need to be as loud as it was. I thought they might be doing it as an attempt at white sound.

 

If X staff is monitoring these threads on volume which have been going on for awhile now the genie is out of the bag.

Will head office act before a CC cruiser does?

 

I will post this on the other thread as well.

Edited March 5, 2014 by baldercash

[clmom]

And though it's not wise to say "take your business elsewhere" as Alexander did,

 

--Correction alert--

I was on the Reflection last week and at the CC gathering. Alexander, the CD, NEVER told people to "take your business elsewhere" in those exact words. Did we all get that message from other things he did or didn't say? Yes, that would be a fair observation, but I don't think it is fair to attribute actual words that were not, in fact, spoken.

 

At this CC gathering, the comments concerned the VOLUME of the music much more than the TYPE of music. While it didn't surprise me to hear that piano concertos would never be present on Caribbean sailings (European itineraries possibly), I was dismayed to hear that Celebrity also didn't think steel drum/reggae island music was appropriate any longer. These comments DID come from the CD.

 

Through all these new threads popping up about the on board music, the main theme is VOLUME. It is possible to have a rocking vibe that brings the ship to life without drowning out conversations in far reaching venues. A loud rock type group playing in the central atrium at dinner time is not appropriate when other venues (Martini Bar, Library) also share the air space. If Celebrity ships can not offer another outside pool area which provides a more tranquil environment during the day, they need to dial down the VOLUME at the main pool. I don't mean dial down to a whisper but to a decibel level that allows conversation. I like lively music but if I want throbbing, all encompassing rock music, I will go to a concert for that experience. What I want is background music at a volume appropriate to the venue and time of day.

[hockeymom21]

We are in our early 50's and were on the Reflection in February. The music at the pool was not all day long blaring music. They had Zumba, pool games, ice carving, bands etc... Dance classes. We never thought the music was too loud. The martini bar was louder, band playing, people cheering over them pouring 20 something Martini's at once. The Passport Bar was always quiet. The wine bar was always quiet. There was never anyone in Michaels. Very quiet. I think there are places to get away from the music if you don't like it. It uplifting to see people having fun, don't you think? I would highly recommend the Reflection.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TravelerThom]

I suspect that much of the RCI price average is due to the fact that Oasis and Allure continue to be able to charge a premium price for their cruises, which brings the line's overall average way up. For our cruise last week it was down to Reflection or Allure. Allure was $1000 more.

 

Perhaps you are unaware, but RCI ALSO has newer gorgeous ships, namely Oasis and Allure. Royal is also near the end of a massive fleet-wide renovation in which all but 2 ships in the fleet are getting major renovations to include overall room improvements but also many of the features of Oasis/Allure... including a number of the upscale dining venues. You are talking as though Celebrity is great and Royal sucks and still Celebrity has to discount but that's just not the case. Royal is better than ever and their prices reflect the renovations.

I don't have any official data, but I suspect that Celebrity is simply trying to appeal to a wider audience. They know they have a reputation for drawing an older crowd, and don't want to move into the future that way, so are hoping to "hook" new pax with enticing prices and offers.

 

Maybe, just maybe, what they are doing wrong is not appealing to a wide enough audience and that's what they're trying to change. Royal has made a major effort to widen their audience. They have the whole Dreamworks thing going on to compete with Disney for families with young kids, and nurseries for babies. They've got recreational activities galore, that I suspect are largely popular with young families and teens, and they are still increasing the specialty restaurants and such for those who are are not necessarily looking for kid-friendly options.

If you go back and look, nowhere did I look at price averages. I am quite aware of Oasis and Allure, having been on both several times, including Allure a month ago. RCI does a good job maintaining premium pricing on Oasis-class, so I was not surprised that they cost more than Reflection. However, in the two month window out of Florida that I looked at, I was not looking at average price but specific sailing prices, and was surprised that 23 of the available 25 RCI cruises start at a higher rice than any/all of the 13 Celebrity cruises. Even the cheapest pricing on the thirteen year old Adventure of the Seas is higher than any Celebrity starting price.

 

I would agree with you that Celebrity is probably trying to appeal to a wider audience. But if even with support from terrible weather in the Northeastern US (a major market, especially for winter cruises) you are having to sell the newest ships (with significantly larger staterooms, a "luxury" reputation and a reputation for upscale food) at bargain basement prices, management is doing something wrong. $409 for a week on Celebrity's "flagship" Reflection in the middle of hurricane season would be a steal; for the first week of March that is a ridiculous price. Celebrity seems to have done a far better job at running off their previous passengers than they have in attracting new passengers. Many of those run off will never come back. The plan to attract those new passengers better start working sooner rather than later, or I suspect a number of people in Miami (and CD Alex) will be looking for new jobs.

 

Thom

Edited March 5, 2014 by TravelerThom