Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[K.T.B.]

Going off topic for a sec:

 

Obviously Celebrity has not heard of the Oldsmobile debacle. Oldsmobile in the 80s thought their demographic was getting too old and they wanted the younger generation. In a series of famous ads, "This is not your father's Oldsmobile" including William Shatner of Star Trek fame, they buzzed the airwaves. It backfired on them as the young never intended to buy the cars and their loyal customers (the seniors) decided that if Oldsmobile did not want them, they would reciprocate by not wanting Oldsmobile. Oldsmobile soon disappeared into history as another company that shot themselves in the foot trying to be something they were not.

pah

 

"Soon disappeared"???

 

2004 is not "soon".

 

And what caused Oldsmobile to fail is that GM used the brand as a "guinea pig" for new designs and technology which were not always successful. Remember the Toronado Trofeo? Most of their recognizable cars (the 88 and 98) ended production in 1999. Though the brand lasted another 5 years with other, newer cars.

 

It wasn't the commercials that killed the brand, it's they way it was used by GM.

 

 

OK, back to the topic at hand! :)

[going2cruz]

Originally Posted by NLH Arizona

The problem is that when a few people profess to speak for everyone, it turns people off without them having the experience themselves and possibly that is what they want to do to get their way.

 

I'm not sure if I understand you.... Are you actually saying that it's possible that people are posting their experiences (good or bad depending on what side they are on) with the intention to scare away customers?

I hope that I have misunderstood you.

 

 

Been on these boards for years and I can tell you these peeps have minds of their own.....

Edited March 7, 2014 by going2cruz

[Lois R]

I'm not sure if I understand you.... Are you actually saying that it's possible that people are posting their experiences (good or bad depending on what side they are on) with the intention to scare away customers?

I hope that I have misunderstood you.

 

I posted a couple of times on here...I can only speak for me.

I never posted with intention of scaring anyone away. I did post my

experience though but the intent was not to scare anyone at all.

 

Sounds like this issue does have major differences though.:eek:

[cle-guy]

Good question. Using some of the sites you reference one can get an idea of how many cabins are still for sale on any particular future sailing, but even if you kept track of those (and that's WAY more work than I'm willing to do [unless someone will pay me big bucks:p]) you still don't have the industry standard which is "occupancy". 100% occupancy equals every stateroom having two passengers. Given that many staterooms have extra berths and often passengers in those extra berths, occupancy rate is usually over 100%. In FY 2012 RCCL (that's the parent corporation) average occupancy across all their companies was 104.4% (lower than 2011's 104.9% but higher than 2010's 104.3%). These corporation wide annual figures come from their required 10-K annual filings with the SEC. I suspect that further breakdown to a particular cruise line (eg Celebrity) is considered proprietary.

 

For information Oasis of the Seas can sail at 116.5% occupancy and still be SOLAS compliant. I THINK this figure is higher than most ships, but it does give an idea of what is possible. I have sailed O-class four times (never during school holidays [eg summer vacations, Christmas, etc] when occupancies are highest), and have always been over 110% occupancy.

 

Thom

 

 

Thansk for this, great info. I hadn't thought about the 10k having that kind of info. I actually just had my broker buy me some RCI yesterday so will start paying more attention.

[wallie5446]

Thansk for this, great info. I hadn't thought about the 10k having that kind of info. I actually just had my broker buy me some RCI yesterday so will start paying more attention.

 

Lets hope the next 12 months are as great as the last 12!

3/8/2013 @ $34.83

today @ $52.28 :)

[wallie5446]

I posted a couple of times on here...I can only speak for me.

I never posted with intention of scaring anyone away. I did post my

experience though but the intent was not to scare anyone at all.

 

Sounds like this issue does have major differences though.:eek:

 

Lois, you are one of our 'benchmarks' :) A voice of reason. Please never stay away from expressing your experiences!

 

I take issue when someone post that the 'VIEW COUNT' = people, when it is efident they have to concept of how a web site view counter works, and wants to use that as their benchmark for one way.

Edited March 7, 2014 by wallie5446

[terigo]

I kind of think the offhand use of "Carnivalization" is a bit misguided.

We have sailed both lines frequently.

Last year we sailed on both the Equinox and the Carnival Dream. Here are the differences...

 

Food. Equal. Yes, I said equal. The specialty restaurants were comparable and so was the main dining room. I find that most of the people here who knock Carnival food have never sailed on one of their ships.

 

Service. Equal. The staff on both ships knocked themselves out to be accommodating.

 

Cabins. Equal. Both roomy and comfortable with lovely beds.

 

Smoking policy. Celebrity wins hands down for this one.

 

Entertainment. Carnival has the best comedians at sea. The production numbers are about the same.

 

Ambience. Celebrity has a more high-end feel to them.

 

Dress code. Much more closely adhered to on Celebrity. On Carnival, my husband and I joked about people wearing their dress flip-flops on formal night.

 

Yes, there are poolside games on Carnival that do not exist on Celebrity, but ya know what? Even this old couple in their 60s find these entertaining.

 

Never found any more drunks on one line than the other.

 

Bottom line? Fewer differences than one would think.

[NLH Arizona]

I'm not sure if I understand you.... Are you actually saying that it's possible that people are posting their experiences (good or bad depending on what side they are on) with the intention to scare away customers?

I hope that I have misunderstood you.

No, what I said was that posters are professing to talk for everyone or most on an issue, instead of just speaking for themselves, to get Celebrity to think the issue is bigger than what it is and will change the issue. I have no problem with people voicing their own opinion, but when they say everyone or most have the same problem, that is very disingenuous. And when doing that, new potential customers read the posts and just assume that they are infact talking for everyone and think that the problem is bigger than it is and they get turned off or question their decision to cruise with Celebrity. Like the few posters that said, they haven't encountered the problem or were going on their first cruise, but already have in mind that they are going to have to have an issue with loud music, which is not true.

 

I don't nor have I ever said that anyone tries to scare anyone away on purpose, but some of their words do when they profess to speak for everyone or most of the Celebrity passengers, especially when the person reading has never been on a Celebrity cruise.

[shoelover536]

I think you might be on to something here. The boats are not designed for the younger set. Michael's Club, the Wine Cellars, the fancy Spa, Martini Bar, etc. is designed for an older audience. I have yet to see a water slide or a zip line on Celebrity. But when I do...I guess the "Carnivalization" process will have gone into action. :eek:

 

I resisted adding to this debate for awhile, but I would like to respond to this. I'm in my mid 30s and my husband is a few years older than me...so not sure this makes us the "younger set"...maybe the "rapidly approaching middle aged set"? Anyway, we chose Celebrity (pre-123 go - we actually BOUGHT our first drink package) because X advertised that it offered a sophisticated atmoshpere.

 

So my question is, why do some people think there is an age requirement for sophistication?

 

We love a good glass of wine, appreciate a good spa (our next cruise is AQ) and had a blast at the martini bar (so much so we forgot to go to the molecular bar - whoops! next time). And we love that X puts a focus on its cuisine.

 

The way X presents itself in marketing and in its decor, atmospere, etc. reminds me (and many others have stated this too) of the W hotel brand. If you have ever been in a W (I've stayed in quite a few), you will note the music is not subdued, to say the least. And there aren't any zip lines or water slides there either.

 

I think X is going for a vibrant, energetic, upscale, modern atmosphere. The music on our last cruise was fun, upbeat, popular music and we did not find it too loud. Mind you, if they have gotten the volume wrong as of late (I haven't cruised yet this year, since the complaints started pouring in), I hope they correct it by turning it down a bit. But as far as the direction the brand is going I'm happy with it.

 

Just my (lightly aged) 2 cents. ;)

Edited March 7, 2014 by shoelover536

[NLH Arizona]

I posted a couple of times on here...I can only speak for me.

I never posted with intention of scaring anyone away. I did post my

experience though but the intent was not to scare anyone at all.

 

Sounds like this issue does have major differences though.:eek:

Yes, Lois you post your experience, I've never read any of your posts where you have said that everyone or most have the same issue, etc. That is how it should be done. No one can speak for everyone or most of the passengers, they can only speak for themselves and relate their experiences. And when they do profess to speak for everyone, some posters feel that it is exactly the way they say and that it is a widespread problem and are questioning their decisions, like the posters who now think they are going to have a problem with loud music or are thinking of cancelling because of it, when in fact they may not, but they are going in with a negative assumption.

 

If you read some of the posts, you would get the opinion that everyone on the ship is complaining about the music, when that is far from the truth.

Edited March 7, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

I resisted adding to this debate for awhile, but I would like to respond to this. I'm in my mid 30s and my husband is a few years older than me...so not sure this makes us the "younger set"...maybe the "rapidly approaching middle aged set"? Anyway, we chose Celebrity (pre-123 go - we actually BOUGHT our first drink package) because X advertised that it offered a sophisticated atmoshpere.

 

So my question is, why do some people think there is an age requirement for sophistication?

 

We love a good glass of wine, appreciate a good spa (our next cruise is AQ) and had a blast at the martini bar (so much so we forgot to go to the molecular bar - whoops! next time). And we love that X puts a focus on its cuisine.

 

The way X presents itself in marketing and in its decor, atmospere, etc. reminds me (and many others have stated this too) of the W hotel brand. If you have ever been in a W (I've stayed in quite a few), you will note the music is not subdued, to say the least. And there aren't any zip lines or water slides there either.

 

I think X is going for a vibrant, energetic, upscale, modern atmosphere. The music on our last cruise was fun, upbeat, popular music and we did not find it too loud. Mind you, if they have gotten the volume wrong as of late (I haven't cruised yet this year, since the complaints started pouring in), I hope they correct it by turning it down a bit. But as far as the direction the brand is going I'm happy with it.

 

Just my (lightly aged) 2 cents. ;)

Have to agree, I stay at W Hotels as well and love the experience, especially the mini bar. I think people have different definitions as to what "New Luxury" is and that is the major problem. To me "Luxury" was the Plaza Hotel or Waldorf years ago and "New Luxury" is hotels like the W and Ace Hotel.

 

A company has to evolve, because a stagnant company can't last. The silent generation isn't going to be around cruising in 20 or 30 years, so they need to try to entice more baby boomers and generation x'ers and y'ers to become new customers and to do that they need to continually evolve and be ever changing. Some changes we will like and others not so much, but it has to be done.

[Lois R]

Thanks Wallie AND Nancy........

 

I will say this...I was quite unhappy with the CD's attitute and response

when I spoke with him. I feel like he "passed the buck"......"HQ said

to do this".....

I ended up writing a note to the Hotel Director (not about the CD)

but about the volume of noise in the Martini Bar.

[Cruising89143]

I resisted adding to this debate for awhile, but I would like to respond to this. I'm in my mid 30s and my husband is a few years older than me...so not sure this makes us the "younger set"...maybe the "rapidly approaching middle aged set"? Anyway, we chose Celebrity (pre-123 go - we actually BOUGHT our first drink package) because X advertised that it offered a sophisticated atmoshpere.

 

So my question is, why do some people think there is an age requirement for sophistication?

 

We love a good glass of wine, appreciate a good spa (our next cruise is AQ) and had a blast at the martini bar (so much so we forgot to go to the molecular bar - whoops! next time). And we love that X puts a focus on its cuisine.

 

The way X presents itself in marketing and in its decor, atmospere, etc. reminds me (and many others have stated this too) of the W hotel brand. If you have ever been in a W (I've stayed in quite a few), you will note the music is not subdued, to say the least. And there aren't any zip lines or water slides there either.

 

I think X is going for a vibrant, energetic, upscale, modern atmosphere. The music on our last cruise was fun, upbeat, popular music and we did not find it too loud. Mind you, if they have gotten the volume wrong as of late (I haven't cruised yet this year, since the complaints started pouring in), I hope they correct it by turning it down a bit. But as far as the direction the brand is going I'm happy with it.

 

Just my (lightly aged) 2 cents. ;)

 

Spot on with your comments. I am early 50's but we enjoy the atmosphere on board X. As stated one does not have to be a certain age to appreciate sophistication. Celebrity has decided that they want to move in a certain direction with their product. Those that do not enjoy that direction are free to vote with their wallets and move on. Or they can continue to cruise with X and come on Cruise Critic and tell everyone how bad it is!!!! ;)

[southernbreezes]

As a fairly recent convert to Celebrity, especially their S class ships, I am very happy to see that my chosen favourite cruise line is watching and listening to the comments of its Cruise Critic passengers.

During my cruises I have occasioinally noticed overloud music mainly on the deck, but not all the time and not enough to put me off.

However I did find the comments about targetting a younger demographic a little concerning, although I can well understand any holiday supplier wanting to maximise the spending potential of their clients.

To this end it would certainly make interesting reading if Celebrity, or any cruise line, did disclose the range and value of on board spending by age groups.

It might in fact be beneficial to Celebrity by encouraging some in the lesser spending groups to up their game so as not to be overlooked.

 

Really not sure people change that much - cheap and wanting freebees at 30 still cheap and wanting freebees at 70 is what I think. We are both 60 and have been cruising for over 30 years (59 cruises), we spend the same today as we did before. I could care less about a free past passenger party with drinks. We work hard and go on vacation to enjoy life and spend lots of money doing so. If I have to save I will find a deal on carnival ship, yes I shop for the best cabin, the best ship and for the best price. We love all the ships but happen to like Celebrity for ship size, food is a bit better, the class of people tends to be better and love, love the premium drink package. ;) ps I would never take a inside cabin or just a ocean view - we like suites.

Edited March 7, 2014 by southernbreezes
add ps

[waterbug123]

I think you might be on to something here. The boats are not designed for the younger set. Michael's Club, the Wine Cellars, the fancy Spa, Martini Bar, etc. is designed for an older audience.

 

Huh?! Only old people get massages and drink martinis? ROFL

 

Got to totally disagree. Have you been to Canyon Ranch Spa (fancy spa), the first time I went there, I was old and I was only in my 50's, most were 20 to 30 years younger than me. Martinis are the drink of the younger set and the martini bars in Scottsdale are packed every night. Michael's Club might not interest the younger set, just because I've never seen many in there and they would get bored, but as far as wine cellars, the younger well-heeled folks love good wine. To make the generalization that these things are only designed for an older audience is pretty much off the mark IMHO.

 

You read my mind. Michael's seems to have struggles to find an identity. Wasn't it originally supposed to be a cigar bar or something? Then it was the Captain's Club lounge so to speak, and when we were in there last month the focus seemed to be on craft beers, which I think very much appeals to the younger set. The only thing curtdesilets mentioned that might not be AS popular with the younger crowd is Cellar Masters, but then again, when we stopped by, it didn't appear to be popular with anyone. The place was empty.

[Lois R]

Huh?! Only old people get massages and drink martinis? ROFL

 

 

 

You read my mind. Michael's seems to have struggles to find an identity. Wasn't it originally supposed to be a cigar bar or something? Then it was the Captain's Club lounge so to speak, and when we were in there last month the focus seemed to be on craft beers, which I think very much appeals to the younger set. The only thing curtdesilets mentioned that might not be AS popular with the younger crowd is Cellar Masters, but then again, when we stopped by, it didn't appear to be popular with anyone. The place was empty.

 

Hi Meg, Michael's is being changed and will only be available to

Zenith members and Suite Passengers....it was already changed

when I sailed CENTURY last month and I believe all the other ships

are supposed to be changed over the next few months.

[cle-guy]

Lets hope the next 12 months are as great as the last 12!

3/8/2013 @ $34.83

today @ $52.28 :)

 

Preaching to the choir! I have seen the trend, and actually like all the movements RCI has made at Royal (streamlining operations, better cabin occupancy management schemes) and see good things coming this way too with the departure of Century (one less outlier as far as operations and maintenance issues go, keep a streamlined fleet) to a related party, and the building of the new port in the Asian market.

 

I got mine for $51.29 yesterday !

[jimmybean]

We are booked on our first Celebrity cruise, after being encouraged by excellent Celebrity reviews on CC.

 

Honestly, the subject of overly loud music has me concerned. Contributors to this thread are appreciated. Overly loud music is unhealthy and uncomfortable. It would drive us out of public areas and into our cabin. What kind of cruise would that be?

 

Thank you to all describing your recent experience on Celebrity ships.

[wallie5446]

We are booked on our first Celebrity cruise, after being encouraged by excellent Celebrity reviews on CC.

 

Honestly, the subject of overly loud music has me concerned. Contributors to this thread are appreciated. Overly loud music is unhealthy and uncomfortable. It would drive us out of public areas and into our cabin. What kind of cruise would that be?

 

Thank you to all describing your recent experience on Celebrity ships.

 

Jimmy, we have been sailing since 1987, 7 different lines, and on Celebrity since 1994. We are just off the Reflection and your choice, the Equinox is our next ship in Nov. IMHO, an hour or two after sail away you will be scratching your head trying to figure out what the heck this was all about. Have a great cruise, wish it was our time already.

[jimmybean]

Thank you for your reassurance and good wishes, Wallie5446. Your years of loyalty to Celebrity speaks volumes.

 

Time keeps passing and pretty soon it will be your cruising time.

 

We understand the Equinox will undergo some refurnishing between our two sailings. Should be particularly ship-shape (such a great term!) when you get on.

[wf083145]

Now that I've put on my flame resistant suit I feel a need to respond to some of these comments.

 

Our last cruise on Carnival Pride was 2 years ago that we took with 2 of our g-kind (8 and 5). 22 cruises put 1st on Carnival (6 on X). We had really low expectations and were pleasantly surprised. No hairy chest contests, virtually no drunks, extremely clean ship, good entertainment, extraordinary service throughout, good food, lots of families and type/volume appropriate music. Not luxury but a very good, high value cruise. Hmmm! Carnivalization not sounding too bad.

 

Our last X cruise on X was on the 2nd S ship and was underwhelming. Food which had always been X's high point was unimpressive. The lobster melange in the MDR reminded us of old style college cafeteria swill. Service was indifferent at best. Hmmm part 2 - Carnival was a step up.

 

Fast forward to 2014. We're going on Reflection in a few weeks and giving X another chance. As 60 somethings we're looking for a relaxing vacation. Not looking for a monastery but a chance to relax and de-stress. Don't expect or want gourmet food. Want to be able to enjoy music but not be a continual victim of someone else's.

 

I guess we'll have to see what our cruise brings us. We're keeping an open mind and will write a review, either way.

[curtdesilets]

I ruffled a few feathers with my previous comments. my bad. :p

 

The curious thing is that the cruise line has been changing since it's inception. Our first Celebrity cruise was on the Brand Spanking New Infinity in 2001. My wife and I were in our mid 30's, and we were probably about the youngest couple on board. The early years of this line definitely catered to, and was attracted by an older audience. That is a fact.

 

What's funny is us "young" folks loved the feel, charm, sophistication and what Celebrity was going for during that era. We liked that there was no glaring music and incessant announcements from the PA system. We loved that EVEYONE dressed up very formally for formal night. Most men were in tuxedos and the women were dressed to the nines. We loved everything about Celebrity back then, and it was and remains our favorite cruise line. Our contemporaries, on the other hand, probably would have chosen a more vibrant and energetic cruise. But Celebrity was just our style.

 

Celebrity is different today. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen.

[purpletequila]

Based on our sailing you would be skipping the best ship we, ( crankie 60 year olds ) have sailed in 25 years. We were on the Ruby Princess in 2012, our friends loved it, I thought it was OK, my wife hated it and will not look at sailing with them anymore. Yet she still talks about the balcony dinning as the best on ship experience ever! Go figure. Please make sure and let us know how your sailing was when you return.

 

That's reassuring. Thank you for taking the time and I will let you know.:)

[Seapoint]

I plan on attending the Celebrity function in Dallas on the 13th. Will any other posters be there?

[wallie5446]

I plan on attending the Celebrity function in Dallas on the 13th. Will any other posters be there?

 

We will, and have already been in email contact with them about the 'volume' situation. Look forward to meeting ya'll.

Edited March 8, 2014 by wallie5446