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Everything.. ESCAPE (live 29 Oct 2015!)


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Now you are just pulling things out of the sky, for example I had a spa Haven suite and the spa was unavailable and they gave me a $100 onboard credit and I was happy with that. I heard some of the people mumbling and groaning about it but I said come on hey it's A extra hundred bucks

 

Chris it was a question so simple a kindergartener would understand it and you still didn't. You should tattoo rip me off on your head

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Well after reading this thread and others it is clear that NCL have got it wrong with the Escape.

 

As we do in the North of England we say it how it is. This really does look like a massive mistake especially with GA being so successful. I have read the reviews to date and even the Epic did better in its early days.

 

One suspects that Mr FDR squeezing will actually choke the punters.

 

A pure prediction (a bit of fun about Escape)

 

a. The GA will be more expensive than Escape

b. A la Carte will go from the menus fleetwide its simply does not make sense

c. Escape is redeployed to Europe to replace Epic or Spirit in the Summer 2017

d. NCL profits start to plateau without these changes

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FYI -

 

Escape, 4,248 Passengers - 5 complimentary venues:

Manhattan Room, Taste, Savor - only Taste/Savor open for lunch & only when at sea

O'Sheehan's

Buffet

 

Getaway, 3,969 Passengers - 7 complimentary venues:

Tropicana Room, Taste, Savor - only Taste open for lunch & only when at sea

O'Sheehan's

Buffet

Flamingo Bar and Grill - Breakfast and dinner

Shanghai's - Open for dinner only

 

Breakaway, 3,963 Passengers - 8 complimentary venues:

Manhattan Room, Taste, Savor - Only Savor open for lunch & only when at sea

O'Sheehan's

Buffet

Uptown Bar and Grill

Shanghai's Noodle Bar

Sabrett's Hot Dog Stand

 

Epic, 4,100 Passengers - 7 complimentary venues:

Manhattan Room and Taste - Only Taste open for lunch & only when at sea

O'Sheehan's

Buffet

Great Outdoors

Spice H20

Shanghai's Noodle Bar

So basically, on the Escape, which has the most passengers, you can:

Have free breakfast at Taste/Savor, O'Sheehan's and the Buffet

Have free lunch at Taste/Savor but only when at Sea, O'Sheehan's or Buffet

Have free dinner at Manhattan Room/Taste/Savor, O'Sheehan's or Buffet

 

Just a quick show of the different ships, the amounts of passengers on the ships and the complimentary venues now available.

 

Harriet

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Not criticizing anyone here, but I feel strongly you should count the 2 or 3 MDR's as one since they are the same menu/food, just broken up in separate seating areas. They aren't 3 different free restaurants, really only 1 different choice.

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Well, we ended up switching our May cruise on the Escape to the Breakaway, not really because of this Margaritaville situation, but because I just could not justify spending all of the extra money to fly, stay in a hotel before the cruise, etc., to sail on the Escape over the Breakaway. I'm just not as excited about this ship as I was when I booked her. We liked the Breakaway a lot the first time we sailed on her and she has a number of venues we would have missed on the Escape -- including Bliss, Fat Cats, Uptown, and the Noodle Bar. All of the extra for fee dining on Escape does not do much for me. Frankly, if we didn't have a future cruise certificate to use I would have been very tempted to just return to RCI in May. I expect to have another wonderful cruise on the Breakaway, but I won't be buying anymore of those certificates...QUOTE]

 

 

 

Thanks to all of you who have provided excellent information on the Escape. We may consider her in the future after seeing how the product shakes out.[/

===========================

We and our friends have sailed on both the Getaway and Escape and I think you made a great decision, even if airfare didn't play into it.

 

Another Dave

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Well after reading this thread and others it is clear that NCL have got it wrong with the Escape.

 

As we do in the North of England we say it how it is. This really does look like a massive mistake especially with GA being so successful. I have read the reviews to date and even the Epic did better in its early days.

 

One suspects that Mr FDR squeezing will actually choke the punters.

 

A pure prediction (a bit of fun about Escape)

 

a. The GA will be more expensive than Escape

b. A la Carte will go from the menus fleetwide its simply does not make sense

c. Escape is redeployed to Europe to replace Epic or Spirit in the Summer 2017

d. NCL profits start to plateau without these changes

 

 

That's weird. Escape is so far my favorite of the ships....though EPIC is a close 2nd.

 

A la carte makes a lot of sense if you are trying to control food costs (not revenues - but waste). If the allocation per day is $8.31 (I made this number up), and $3 of it is 'wasted' on sampling (ordering something because you want a small taste, rather than the item as a meal) then you only have $5.31 to spend on the rest of the day.

 

On the other hand if you drive waste down to near-zero, AND you increase a revenue channel, then you can invest that extra $3 + dollars in higher quality food.

 

It's my belief that this is EXACTLY what FDR is doing - the food on Escape was better than on the 'Aways, and the HD said they are investing in higher quality food. I believe the two factors are inextricably linked.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

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That's weird. Escape is so far my favorite of the ships....though EPIC is a close 2nd.

 

A la carte makes a lot of sense if you are trying to control food costs (not revenues - but waste). If the allocation per day is $8.31 (I made this number up), and $3 of it is 'wasted' on sampling (ordering something because you want a small taste, rather than the item as a meal) then you only have $5.31 to spend on the rest of the day.

 

On the other hand if you drive waste down to near-zero, AND you increase a revenue channel, then you can invest that extra $3 + dollars in higher quality food.

 

It's my belief that this is EXACTLY what FDR is doing - the food on Escape was better than on the 'Aways, and the HD said they are investing in higher quality food. I believe the two factors are inextricably linked.

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

 

A very thoughtful reply but I would disagree about the food waste being linked to a la carte. A la carte is being used in the Speciality restaurants which ( and this is fact) have less food waste.

 

The revenue is not going up as people are being driven (unless they have UDP) to the MDR where food wastage is higher.

 

Your numbers do though demonstrate the point well that you are trying to make

 

I have to say would the HD say anything else :) other than they are investing in better food. We thought it was a little better but not such that I will pay that much more.

 

For us I would rather pay more upfront and be done with it.

 

FDR may be maximising revenue but it is short termism as NCL is getting a reputation for now being expensive and his stock market comments have not helped.

 

I have no insider information but I suggest that the MDR will be VERY busy in Europe from now on - oh well we brits love a good queue!!!!

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Same here. Except the future booking. Would like to but there's still some tendency towards X at this moment who offer more different and especially European itineraries/ship deployments. Would choose Escape over X on an equal level for a warmer climate cruise.

Edited by FreestyleNovice
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LoveyHowell,

 

 

 

If you did not have another spa to go to, yes, you should get a refund. There are other choices. There are other dining alternatives on the ship. You are not making an apples to apple comparison.

 

 

 

Also, there is a big difference between $20 and $200.

 

 

 

Yes, they screwed up. As popular as the Margaritavilles are on land, they should have made it ala carte from the beginning. Demand in a fixed area was easy to foresee. Their fault is in trying to make in complimentary at the outset and poorly managing expectations.

 

 

I couldn't agree more with this. They screwed up from the jump.

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So how many free lunch venues on escape, not counting the haven? The MDR which is really only one venue with 3 seating areas, but the same menu, correct. The Buffet, and O'sheehans?

 

How many pay venues for lunch? This margaritaville, and the pub belly's place. Nothing else for lunch

 

Breakfast?

 

 

This does not seem to be many choices?

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I think Food republic, the Tapas place and at least one other are also open for lunch.

 

So how many free lunch venues on escape, not counting the haven? The MDR which is really only one venue with 3 seating areas, but the same menu, correct. The Buffet, and O'sheehans?

 

How many pay venues for lunch? This margaritaville, and the pub belly's place. Nothing else for lunch

 

Breakfast?

 

 

This does not seem to be many choices?

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I find it fascinating (and illuminating) that several people agree the fault was in EVER saying M'ville would be free.

 

That they should have started charging for it from Day 1.

 

 

I concur, and find that it's an interesting counter-narrative to the plaints about what has been taken-away.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

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I find it fascinating (and illuminating) that several people agree the fault was in EVER saying M'ville would be free.

 

That they should have started charging for it from Day 1.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes they should have and I honestly feel NCL was planning to charge from Day One. I knew it the minute I saw food items on my receipt with zero dollar amounts. The venue was already set up to be a la carte and this was the second day into the crossing. Of course it's better PR to initially tout something as being complimentary.

 

They have been in this business long enough to know what is going to be popular and also what the daily capacity is of any given venue. Whenever you have a popular brand name associated with something, you pretty much know it's going to be very popular even if it's not that good, which is the case with Margaritaville. My only so-so meal on ESCAPE. Everything else including the MDR was very good.

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Many more? Name them big shot. I count...3? And one less than the -away ships?

 

LOL!! I see he did not name them, because, in fact, there are only three. Just about everybody reading the board can count to three, so I was wondering myself where these other eateries were that I missed. Well, I did get a dry pastry from 5 O Clock Somewhere..

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Does not sound like many choices for lunch or Breakfast. Will they all be crowded on sea days?

 

On my cruise the Tapas bar was open a whole two hours a day for lunch. With 4000 guests on board, if one percent wanted to eat there, they'd have to turn a table every 3 minutes. NCL has an EATING DISORDER. http://www.cruisewithgambee.com/norwegian-escape-freestyle-daily-paper/

Edited by torgotom
added link to dining options and hours
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Does not sound like many choices for lunch or Breakfast. Will they all be crowded on sea days?

 

I don't disagree that this is another bait and switch on the part of NCL and it leaves a bad taste.

BUT.....let's be realistic. We are only eating 7 breakfasts and 7 lunches. There are a variety of menu items / buffet offerings to choose from. Chances are, unless you are an extremely picky eater, you'll still have enjoyable dining even without the fourth complimentary restaurant.

Whether or not they're crowded depends on the time you dine. The buffet is generally crowded on port days because everyone going ashore is looking for the quickest option.

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Yes they should have and I honestly feel NCL was planning to charge from Day One. I knew it the minute I saw food items on my receipt with zero dollar amounts. The venue was already set up to be a la carte and this was the second day into the crossing.

 

No doubt. Watch Andy Stuart describe the dining options on October 28th (linked below). No mention of Margaritaville within the "included dining" segment, and only a surprisingly brief mention within a footnote, lumped together with the 5 o'clock somewhere bar. I suspect they already knew an awkward situation awaited, and they were preparing as best they could.

 

Btw, having watched several of Stuart's recent interviews, I continue to have faith in NCL's direction. Maybe I'm easily swayed, but I buy into what they're trying to accomplish.

 

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Does not sound like many choices for lunch or Breakfast. Will they all be crowded on sea days?

 

I thought the Escape was supposed to improve on the 'Away' ships. Now they have taken our favorite casual and quick breakfast/lunch place on the Getaway and turned it into a specialty restaurant open for very few hours per day. Very disappointing. Back to the Getaway for us.

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I don't disagree that this is another bait and switch on the part of NCL and it leaves a bad taste.

BUT.....let's be realistic. We are only eating 7 breakfasts and 7 lunches. There are a variety of menu items / buffet offerings to choose from. Chances are, unless you are an extremely picky eater, you'll still have enjoyable dining even without the fourth complimentary restaurant.

Whether or not they're crowded depends on the time you dine. The buffet is generally crowded on port days because everyone going ashore is looking for the quickest option.

 

Well, generally we skip the buffet at sea or in port, except maybe a quick bite before going ashore for breakfast.

 

at sea we would definately skip the buffet on most ships, but it looks like the Escape will be too crowded elsewhere.

 

Seems like way to few choices for a ship this large.

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Btw, having watched several of Stuart's recent interviews, I continue to have faith in NCL's direction. Maybe I'm easily swayed, but I buy into what they're trying to accomplish.

 

 

 

 

I have faith in NCL as well. The momentum started under Sheehan and continues under Stuart. The line today is in its best position since the 70's and 80's. My problem today with NCL is with their decision making process. There seems to be knee-jerk reactions, abrupt policy changes, indecisiveness regarding certain aspects of the product, etc. etc. Surprisingly the end result is pretty good, but the way they have managed decisions of late hasn't been good for PR, consumers, or the onboard staff. All the abrupt policy changes place the staff onboard under increased pressure which often times impacts customer service. It also confuses consumers which is never a good thing. Thankfully the onboard staff seem to be managing well, and I'm hoping NCL is now stabilized for a while regarding policy changes, price increases, etc. I think everyone is growing weary of what NCL may change next. Change is inevitable, but the way you manage that change is what really matters. So far NCL has a failing grade on that process.

Edited by eroller
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I have faith in NCL as well. The momentum started under Sheehan and continues under Stuart...Thankfully the onboard staff seem to be managing well, and I'm hoping NCL is now stabilized for a while regarding policy changes, price increases, etc. I think everyone is growing weary of what NCL may change next. Change is inevitable, but the way you manage that change is what really matters. So far NCL has a very poor grade on that process.

 

FDR has been absolutely relentless in dismantling the old regime and installing his own people in positions of leadership shoreside. That process is still ongoing, and it's been a chaotic mess. Unfortunately, the other shoe is about to drop and we're about to see significant staffing changes onboard as well. For better or worse, the old NCL is about to die. I pray that FDR's new vision works for the sake of those who remain.

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FDR has been absolutely relentless in dismantling the old regime and installing his own people in positions of leadership shoreside. That process is still ongoing, and it's been a chaotic mess. Unfortunately, the other shoe is about to drop and we're about to see significant staffing changes onboard as well. For better or worse, the old NCL is about to die. I pray that FDR's new vision works for the sake of those who remain.

 

 

I live in South Florida and had several friends lose their jobs at NCL Corporate in the last shake up. One was smart and quit just before. One major figure left over from the old regime is Andy Stuart. I like Andy and I'm glad he is still around, but I get the feeling he is not really in charge. I just don't see him behind some of the decisions of late, but of course in his position he has to support them regardless.

 

It will be a real shame if some loyal onboard staff are let go. People like Hotel Director Sean Wurmhoeringer. He is the best of the best. If he goes then I truly have to question NCL's direction. I hate to see great people lose jobs just for the sake of ego.

 

If I were loyal to NCL I might be more concerned, but they are just a blip on my cruising agenda. I actually wrote them off for years and just returned this January with a cruise on GETAWAY. I was impressed so I ended up on 4 NCL cruises in 2015. If I like something I return but when things go south I have no problem going elsewhere. I've done it with NCL, HAL, Carnival, etc. I do return at some stage as all cruise lines evolve. I'm most happy on Disney, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Cunard, and Azamara but I have no complaints about my NCL cruises this year. They have treated me exceptionally well. I hope that continues!

Edited by eroller
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FDR has been absolutely relentless in dismantling the old regime and installing his own people in positions of leadership shoreside. That process is still ongoing, and it's been a chaotic mess. Unfortunately, the other shoe is about to drop and we're about to see significant staffing changes onboard as well. For better or worse, the old NCL is about to die. I pray that FDR's new vision works for the sake of those who remain.

 

OMG I'm getting a migraine from all the mass negativity. Anyone have anything positive to say about the escape?

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