Drinks Package rises and Consumer Protection legislation.

[mr bluetoon]

In the MDR, I ask for a particular wine, then advise them which package I have and ask if my selection is part of the package. Sometimes I ask the sommelier for a suggestion that falls within my package.

 

I then can decide to have the wine if it falls in my package, select another one that is if my 1st choice isn't or decide I really do want the particular wine I want and pay out of pocket for it, or pay the difference if I have a premium package.

 

Same process works at any bar on the ship.

 

Nothing too hard about that.

 

No nothing hard at all, just a bit long winded;)

maybe I just like to be organised...forewarned is forearmed as they say:D

[wpgcycler]

I would rather look at a wine list before I cruise and decide my options rather than buy a package on blind faith. Same goes if sailing in 2015 or 2016, you don't have to buy a package when you book just wait till an updated list is available, you have a choice, no need for sorcery;)

 

Here you go...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2042016

[hammo]

No one is telling you to ask for an $11 wine. You look at the current wine list and choose one that meets your needs. Do you seriously expect them to give you a list now and guarantee the wines will be available in 2015? 2016? Do tell me what sorcery they would employ to facilitate this.

 

Believe me , Celebrity knows what wines are on their lists in 2015 , no sorcery involved there , just good business practice.

[NLH Arizona]

Believe me , Celebrity knows what wines are on their lists in 2015 , no sorcery involved there , just good business practice.

And if something happens in July of 2014, like a drought in a certain area or too much rain or a flea beetle infestation, and a wine is not available in 2015, can you imagine the outcry there will be on here.

Edited May 20, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[chamima]

And if something happens in July of 2014, like a drought in a certain area or too much rain or a flea beetle infestation, and a wine is not available in 2015, can you imagine the outcry there will be on here.

 

Wines are put into kegs well before they're bottled!

The Catena I posted a picture of is a 2011 and that's a pretty young wine to drink now.

This isn't like coffee that you want fresh - it's the opposite.

 

And I agree with hammo - Celebrity knows and has ordered already what wines will be on their ships for 2015.

Edited May 20, 2014 by chamima

[woodyren]

And if something happens in July of 2014, like a drought in a certain area or too much rain or a flea beetle infestation, and a wine is not available in 2015, can you imagine the outcry there will be on here.

 

I doubt there would.

 

I have followed most threads on the packages for a year or so trying to get a handle on their value for us. Over that time there would obviously have been slight changes to availability and/or individual drink prices. While there was an occasional post from someone saying that they were disappointed that their favourite drink was not available most posts were centred around positive responses to the value of the package, others enquiring about what was available so they could make and informed decision or people who had been on a cruise trying to help by posting sample drink menus. Over this time the Celebrity site also just had indicative brands available in each package.

 

The outcry you speak of only came about after there were WHOLESALE movements across the whole range of products placing them outside of the package price points. Because this happened after people had purchased the package or had factored in the free perk when deciding of the value of the purchase price of their cruise they were in my opinion quite right in expressing their displeasure. Coincidently as another poster has said Celebrity appears to agree with them.

 

A secondary by-product of the fiasco is that people now distrust Celebrity when it comes to the purchase of the package and it's consideration when purchasing the whole cruise product and are NOW asking for full details of what it contains. It has been around for a while and I can't recall posts asking for Celebrity to list every drink before.

 

I believe the many posters on here who have contributed to the threads around this subject have saved Celebrity and their staff (who have no say in this but sometimes bare the brunt complaints) from having to deal with or be delayed quite a number of annoyed customers. Only a small percentage of passengers visit this site but it is not too long a bow to draw to predict that others who would not have found out about the drastic changes until they had boarded the ship would have reacted similarly and also it is quite likely that a smaller percentage would have reacted very rudely.

 

I can't understand why the few who come on here to snipe about the horrid complainers can't grasp that.

Edited May 20, 2014 by woodyren

[NLH Arizona]

I doubt there would.

 

I have followed most threads on the packages for a year or so trying to get a handle on their value for us. Over that time there would obviously have been slight changes to availability and/or individual drink prices. While there was an occasional post from someone saying that they were disappointed that their favourite drink was not available most posts were centred around positive responses to the value of the package, others enquiring about what was available so they could make and informed decision or people who had been on a cruise trying to help by posting sample drink menus. Over this time the Celebrity site also just had indicative brands available in each package.

 

The outcry you speak of only came about after there were WHOLESALE movements across the whole range of products placing them outside of the package price points. Because this happened after people had purchased the package or had factored in the free perk when deciding of the value of the purchase price of their cruise they were in my opinion quite right in expressing their displeasure. Coincidently as another poster has said Celebrity appears to agree with them.

 

A secondary by-product of the fiasco is that people now distrust Celebrity when it comes to the purchase of the package and it's consideration when purchasing the whole cruise product and are NOW asking for full details of what it contains. It has been around for a while and I can't recall posts asking for Celebrity to list every drink before.

 

I believe the many posters on here who have contributed to the threads around this subject have saved Celebrity and their staff (who have no say in this but sometimes bare the brunt complaints) from having to deal with or be delayed quite a number of annoyed customers. Only a small percentage of passengers visit this site but it is not too long a bow to draw to predict that others who would not have found out about the drastic changes until they had boarded the ship would have reacted similarly and also it is quite likely that a smaller percentage would have reacted very rudely.

 

I can't understand why the few who come on here to snipe about the horrid complainers can't grasp that.

I don't believe I was speaking of the drink packages on my post, we are talking about giving out a list of wines that will be on the ships in 2015 and 2016, so not quite understanding how your response to me relates to my post. ?????

Edited May 20, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[Pushka]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

[mr bluetoon]

I doubt there would.

 

I have followed most threads on the packages for a year or so trying to get a handle on their value for us. Over that time there would obviously have been slight changes to availability and/or individual drink prices. While there was an occasional post from someone saying that they were disappointed that their favourite drink was not available most posts were centred around positive responses to the value of the package, others enquiring about what was available so they could make and informed decision or people who had been on a cruise trying to help by posting sample drink menus. Over this time the Celebrity site also just had indicative brands available in each package.

 

The outcry you speak of only came about after there were WHOLESALE movements across the whole range of products placing them outside of the package price points. Because this happened after people had purchased the package or had factored in the free perk when deciding of the value of the purchase price of their cruise they were in my opinion quite right in expressing their displeasure. Coincidently as another poster has said Celebrity appears to agree with them.

 

A secondary by-product of the fiasco is that people now distrust Celebrity when it comes to the purchase of the package and it's consideration when purchasing the whole cruise product and are NOW asking for full details of what it contains. It has been around for a while and I can't recall posts asking for Celebrity to list every drink before.

 

I believe the many posters on here who have contributed to the threads around this subject have saved Celebrity and their staff (who have no say in this but sometimes bare the brunt complaints) from having to deal with or be delayed quite a number of annoyed customers. Only a small percentage of passengers visit this site but it is not too long a bow to draw to predict that others who would not have found out about the drastic changes until they had boarded the ship would have reacted similarly and also it is quite likely that a smaller percentage would have reacted very rudely.

 

I can't understand why the few who come on here to snipe about the horrid complainers can't grasp that.

 

I wish there was a like or a thanks button on this forum so I could mark this post without the need to take up space quoting, and could also be used as a gauge to other well received posts:D

[NLH Arizona]

Wines are put into kegs well before they're bottled!

The Catena I posted a picture of is a 2011 and that's a pretty young wine to drink now.

This isn't like coffee that you want fresh - it's the opposite.

 

And I agree with hammo - Celebrity knows and has ordered already what wines will be on their ships for 2015.

Thank you, I'm a wine drink and know the process. My point is that anything can happen, there can be a fire in the winery, there can be a flood and all the kegs float away. I agree, Celebrity knows what has been ordered, but I wouldn't give that information out until closer to 2015 or closer to 2016.....if they have one wine on the list and it doesn't make it to the ships, we will se 5,000 posts about it not being available.

[NLH Arizona]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

You know, Pushka, that is a great and obvious answer!

[mr bluetoon]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

 

And be a good excuse to put up prices:rolleyes:

[woodyren]

I don't believe I was speaking of the drink packages on my post, we are talking about giving out a list of wines that will be on the ships in 2015 and 2016, so not quite understanding how your response to me relates to my post. ?????

 

My post was attempting to refute your claim about the "outcry there would be on here" if something changes if and when a wine list is produced. I was also trying to show why some are now asking for much clearer definition including wines and cocktails from Celebrity about the contents of the package.

[20pluscruises]

I doubt there would.

 

I have followed most threads on the packages for a year or so trying to get a handle on their value for us. Over that time there would obviously have been slight changes to availability and/or individual drink prices. While there was an occasional post from someone saying that they were disappointed that their favourite drink was not available most posts were centred around positive responses to the value of the package, others enquiring about what was available so they could make and informed decision or people who had been on a cruise trying to help by posting sample drink menus. Over this time the Celebrity site also just had indicative brands available in each package.

 

The outcry you speak of only came about after there were WHOLESALE movements across the whole range of products placing them outside of the package price points. Because this happened after people had purchased the package or had factored in the free perk when deciding of the value of the purchase price of their cruise they were in my opinion quite right in expressing their displeasure. Coincidently as another poster has said Celebrity appears to agree with them.

 

A secondary by-product of the fiasco is that people now distrust Celebrity when it comes to the purchase of the package and it's consideration when purchasing the whole cruise product and are NOW asking for full details of what it contains. It has been around for a while and I can't recall posts asking for Celebrity to list every drink before.

 

I believe the many posters on here who have contributed to the threads around this subject have saved Celebrity and their staff (who have no say in this but sometimes bare the brunt complaints) from having to deal with or be delayed quite a number of annoyed customers. Only a small percentage of passengers visit this site but it is not too long a bow to draw to predict that others who would not have found out about the drastic changes until they had boarded the ship would have reacted similarly and also it is quite likely that a smaller percentage would have reacted very rudely.

 

I can't understand why the few who come on here to snipe about the horrid complainers can't grasp that.

 

Like button :)

[wpgcycler]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

 

And you'd expect them to be valid until when? What if they don't have enough stock to last until next January and no more is available or the price or quality has changed? It's easy with most beers and spirits, not so with wine - unless you want them to serve you wines which are even more generic than they currently do.

[NLH Arizona]

My post was attempting to refute your claim about the "outcry there would be on here" if something changes if and when a wine list is produced. I was also trying to show why some are now asking for much clearer definition including wines and cocktails from Celebrity about the contents of the package.

But can’t you just hear it. Chateau Lafite Rothschild was on the May 20th list I received from Celebrity, so I made my reservation on May 21st, because Chateau Lafite Rothschild is the only wine I drink and when I got onboard, that wine was not available. They can’t do that, it is against the law.

 

Seriously, I understand someone wanting a list of wines that are available on the ships now and for the rest of the year, but to expect a list for 2015 and 2016 cruise, unbelievable.

[woodyren]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

 

You know, Pushka, that is a great and obvious answer!

 

Agree.

 

The only thing to add is that in general the new price points are factored in and the cost of the packages adjusted upwards so the products one receives remain (again in general in case of pestilence or the great flood:p) in the package. Of course people who have purchased the packages or received the perk will then need to be grandfathered in to the new package.

 

As I stated in my recent long post I see no evidence that there would be anything more than some minor posts on here and presumably an occasional on board complaint about an individuals drink of choice that was on the "indicative list" being absent for whatever reason from a particular ship or even if it was removed across the board for reasons beyond Celebrity's control.

[mr bluetoon]

But can’t you just hear it. Chateau Lafite Rothschild was on the May 20th list I received from Celebrity, so I made my reservation on May 21st, because Chateau Lafite Rothschild is the only wine I drink and when I got onboard, that wine was not available. They can’t do that, it is against the law.

 

Seriously, I understand someone wanting a list of wines that are available on the ships now and for the rest of the year, but to expect a list for 2015 and 2016 cruise, unbelievable.

 

Seriously it would depend on why it was unavailable, if someone had smashed every bottle in the cellar, no, but removed from the list for no reason, yes, against the law:)

[Pushka]

And be a good excuse to put up prices:rolleyes:

 

 

That's called inflation. I'd expect price rises for this reason and sometimes if there's an unusual scarcity. I'd expect the price of the packages to increase each year as well as the value $ of the inclusions.

 

What people don't or didn't expect (and which was unwarranted) was the volume of exclusions that occurred making the whole package pretty much useless to many.

[NLH Arizona]

Seriously it would depend on why it was unavailable, if someone had smashed every bottle in the cellar, no, but removed from the list for no reason, yes, against the law:)

Seriously, the people wouldn't care why it wasn't available, only that they booked because it was their wine of choice and on the list and it was not on the ship. It wouldn't matter to them if, the ship carrying it to Celebrity sunk, or there was a fire at the winery or all the kegs flew away in a tornado, they would still be yelling that it was not onboard and that was illegal.

[mr bluetoon]

That's called inflation. I'd expect price rises for this reason and sometimes if there's an unusual scarcity. I'd expect the price of the packages to increase each year as well as the value $ of the inclusions.

 

What people don't or didn't expect (and which was unwarranted) was the volume of exclusions that occurred making the whole package pretty much useless to many.

 

Agree:)

[Pushka]

And you'd expect them to be valid until when? What if they don't have enough stock to last until next January and no more is available or the price or quality has changed? It's easy with most beers and spirits, not so with wine - unless you want them to serve you wines which are even more generic than they currently do.

 

 

Companies source their contracts 12 months out. What you are describing here are unique events. And why would they run out of all available wines/Spirits. That would show their logistics and planning was extremely poor. They know almost to the 9th how much wine will be consumed. You are making this way harder than it needs to be. They have years of consumer data and consumption patterns to work with.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Pushka

[wpgcycler]

Seriously, the people wouldn't care why it wasn't available, only that they booked because it was their wine of choice and on the list and it was not on the ship. It wouldn't matter to them if, the ship carrying it to Celebrity sunk, or there was a fire at the winery or all the kegs flew away in a tornado, they would still be yelling that it was not onboard and that was illegal.

 

Yep, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been reading all these drink package Armageddon threads.

[woodyren]

But can’t you just hear it. Chateau Lafite Rothschild was on the May 20th list I received from Celebrity, so I made my reservation on May 21st, because Chateau Lafite Rothschild is the only wine I drink and when I got onboard, that wine was not available. They can’t do that, it is against the law.

 

Seriously, I understand someone wanting a list of wines that are available on the ships now and for the rest of the year, but to expect a list for 2015 and 2016 cruise, unbelievable.

 

Fair enough. You may well be right. I just did not see that happen previously even though there were plenty of sample menus posted and certainly some variations from cruise to cruise.

 

I should have focused on the crux of your posts which is wine. Other drinks are rather stable across the board whereas wine (so I am told) can have huge differences even within a particular brand depending on the year.

 

I still stand by my observation that most customers can discern, understand and accept why slight changes happen. They may be a little disappointed but do not do anything more than occasionally state how they feel either on here or to fellow passengers when the subject comes up when on board.

Edited May 20, 2014 by woodyren

[wpgcycler]

Companies source their contracts 12 months out. What you are describing here is unique events. And why would they run out of all available wines/Spirits. That would show their logistics and planning was extremely poor. They know almost to the 9th how much wine will be consumed. You are making this way harder than it needs to be. They have years of consumer data and consumption patterns to work with.

 

Ok.