Drinks Package rises and Consumer Protection legislation.

[NLH Arizona]

Fair enough. You may well be right. I just did not see that happen previously even though there were plenty of sample menus posted and certainly some variations from cruise to cruise.

 

I should have focused on the crux of your posts which is wine. Other drinks are rather stable across the board whereas wine (so I am told) can have huge differences even within a particular brand depending on the year.

 

I still stand by my observation that most customers can discern, understand and accept why slight changes happen. They may be a little disappointed but do not do anything more than occasionally state how they feel either on here or to fellow passengers when the subject comes up when on board.

I would have thought so too, untill all of these threads and posts about the beverage packages. People are obviously very passionate about their liquor.

[Pushka]

Yep, and anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't been reading all these drink package Armageddon threads.

 

 

That's hardly the case. It's a genuine consumer issue. The fairness of it is protected by consumer legislation. A simple case of having to supply the product you've advertised.

 

I understand lack of availability of a certain product. It's not rocket science. We understand that for say a drought or flood there may be no availability of let's say tomatoes onboard.

 

That isn't what happened in this situation. There is no worldwide shortage of the beers that were excluded. The price simply rose above the limit. Along with every other popular beer. After a huge promo that probably filled their ships for the next 6 months. Coincidence much? There was even a thread on this very board asking how Celebrity was going to manage all the 123 promos in their profit. Now we know!

 

I'm not particularly passionate about alcohol. But a core value of mine is fairness and principles. What celebrity did was smash through both of those principles.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Pushka

[Christine Frances]

I have been on three cruises with the pkg over the last 18 mon. For the life of me, I have never seen a list of wines posted anywhere on Celebrity's website. Just the $ amount of the wines in each package. On board you get a wine list for the MDR, you get a list for each Specialty Restaurant ( could be the same list but I don't know - didn't bother to have them side by side to compare:rolleyes:), different wines at the Sunset Bar (some of the MDR wines were not available there) Way too much work and unless I carried a spreadsheet with me I would be lost. Way to much work and stress for a vacation for us to have to check and double check what wines are available. I am sure I will love them all lol

[neptuno]

.........I'm not particularly passionate about alcohol. But a core value of mine is fairness and principles. What celebrity did was smash through both of those principles.

 

Please accept a big THANK YOU for your efforts.

Edited May 21, 2014 by neptuno

[TravelerThom]

Hi all,

 

As promised, we shared a list of the Classic Beverage Package as it stands today. You may have noticed that we also shared a list on Friday that was missing a few drinks (specifically Corona, Corona Light, Jack Daniel's, and Jack Daniel's Honey). We want to share information on Cruise Critic that is timely, accurate, and this isn't very simple, as things change very quickly.

 

Please, just because you don't see an answer right away, don't assume we don't care. The people who represent 'Celebrity Cruises' on Cruise Critic care, and Celebrity cares because they want to ensure that our guests are happy. We spend countless hours gathering information, fact checking it, and then trying to provide accurate answers that can be provided to the masses. Again, this isn't easy, as every regions varies and things do change.

 

As for the Premium Beverage Package, we are trying to gather a list that we can also share.

I'm sure it is probably obvious to most, but WHERE did you share this list? I can't seem to find it.

[wpgcycler]

I'm sure it is probably obvious to most, but WHERE did you share this list? I can't seem to find it.

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42812518#post42812518

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313293&d=1400512502

[Pushka]

Please accept a big THANK YOU for your efforts.

 

And thankyou for that! :p

 

Maybe we can toast a drink sometime - must do a Caribbean vacation sometime. Our business partner from NY lives in Florida during winter - you never know how this crazy world turns out.

[TravelerThom]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42812518#post42812518

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=313293&d=1400512502

Thanks for the links.:)

 

Somehow I think that if Celebrity is going to state on this thread that they have "shared" a list, they need to give a link on this thread.:mad:

 

Thom

[Christine Frances]

They posted the link on the thread that was discussing the Classic Drink pkg which I think is the correct one. This thread is discussing "Consumer Protection Legislation"

[The_Big_M]

Wouldn't an obvious answer be to update the available wines (or price list) on each package in January of each year;)

 

Only problem with that is they change them other times of the year, e.g. now in May.

[Pushka]

Only problem with that is they change them other times of the year, e.g. now in May.

 

As long as there is just one time of the year. It doesn't matter when. Maybe at the release of the majority of their cruises. Or when their economic cycle is. There is no financial need to change them more frequently than that.

 

Thanks for the links.:)

 

Somehow I think that if Celebrity is going to state on this thread that they have "shared" a list, they need to give a link on this thread.:mad:

 

Thom

I think Celebrity posted on this thread also. Yes, post 449 in fact.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Pushka

[RDC1]

As long as there is just one time of the year. It doesn't matter when. Maybe at the release of the majority of their cruises. Or when their economic cycle is. There is no financial need to change them more frequently than that.

 

Considering that they sell in advance it doesn't matter what time. Unless they make it totally clear by disclosure at time of purchase what it includes and the pending changes. Since they have already sold cruises into 2015 if it is considered a violation of consumer protection (the question of this discussion) they would not be able to make the change until after that time frame. Unless they grandfathered in all who purchased prior to the change or reimbursed them for change in value or allowed them to rescind the purchase.

Edited May 21, 2014 by RDC1

[Pushka]

Considering that they sell in advance it doesn't matter what time. Unless they make it totally clear by disclosure at time of purchase what it includes. Since they have already sold cruises into 2015 if it is considered a violation of consumer protection they would not be able to make the change until after that time frame. Unless they grandfathered in all who purchased prior to the change or reimbursed them for change in value or allowed them to rescind the purchase.

 

I think the issue here arose because the prices increased significantly. Not just a few cents, but by a few dollars.

 

I do think there was more thinking going into this than just a simple price rise involved here, but which has now been corrected.

[insidecabin]

No one is telling you to ask for an $11 wine. You look at the current wine list and choose one that meets your needs. Do you seriously expect them to give you a list now and guarantee the wines will be available in 2015? 2016? Do tell me what sorcery they would employ to facilitate this. If you're not comfortable buying a package which has no guaranteed wines I suggest you don't buy the package. Isn't choice wonderful?

 

Staring with the first point X had pretty much set it up you almost had to take the classic depending where you lived with the various promotions, the cruises were priced high and you took your options, the option that was not on the table was no perks just a decent priced fare(they came later with the GTY sales).

 

Lets look at the wines...

 

Cruise lines set up contract with suppliers that will have prices and dates set well in advance for 10,000s of bottles(in the stuff we are dealing with) each ship probably needs in the order of 200k bottles a year if say 75% of those are 50 core lines that's 3000 bottles I suspect there are core lines that are in the order of 10k+ bottles a year on each ship so we are looking at orders of 100k+ bottles from suppliers.

 

found a link for Equinox provisioning, which makes the guesses above well under but 2500pd might be on the high side can't find any recent fact sheets from ships tours.

http://fromagebob.com/tag/celebrity-equinox/

 

this say wine ordered 6months in advance and 2500 bottles a day

 

 

They could easily provide lists of what is included in advance and update that list as stock diminishes and the new supplies lines are secured.

 

Get a supply of a new wine/year its in or not for that shipment of stock.

 

updated list on a regular basis(limited, ample, plenty, bucket loads) to give people an idea of what will be available on the cruises over the next period.

(it will be approx. as each ship will be different as you will know if you have done a TA with the diminishing wine list problem)

 

Liqueur is even easier in/out, the stuff is for practical purposes free/cheap on the bulk market, again the forward purchasing should only need adjusting occasionally say once a year or twice and that can be a list published in advance.

 

Molecular in/out keep it simple,

 

PAYG prices can change but do not mess up the packages.

 

Where I have concern is the beers, can they stop messing around with what's on offer(that's before the packages come into it) currently it is looks a shambles there is nothing to say what's on which ship(or even might be) beyond the basic selection mostly the American swill beers) people are reporting from the ships the staff have no idea where the beers have gone with the introduction of the suite lounge so they had to move them.

 

The message is if you want to sell/include packages in advance then YES they need to up the game and tell people what they are buying a year or more in advance. If you can't tell me what I am buying don't sell it to me.

 

As I said in another post this buying stuff in advance is fine when there is a history of things getting improved, but with this race to the bottom cruise lines are going though can you take the risk, you might get a refund on the cabin fare if prices drop but will that compensate enough if the product has changed too much.

 

The issue with these sorts of changes that might impact the value proposition is they trigger the "I am not sure response" in people, multiple product reductions and people get a resistance to paying more and paying in advance.

 

They have started to address the resistance for suites, X was getting behind

 

For UK/EU and other regions bookings this is relevant as there is the loses associated with changing a booking.

 

A US booking is never a proper in advance booking it is to easy to fob off the issues as you know you have a chance to cancel without penalty, although in this case the changes hit people just going on cruises as there was no advanced warning

 

Same with the restaurant price hikes no advanced warning.

[The_Big_M]

As long as there is just one time of the year. It doesn't matter when. Maybe at the release of the majority of their cruises. Or when their economic cycle is. There is no financial need to change them more frequently than that.

But having it at a certain time locks them in.

 

From their perspective they prefer the flexibility of changing as and when they feel necessary, than to a schedule.

[insidecabin]

But having it at a certain time locks them in.

 

From their perspective they prefer the flexibility of changing as and when they feel necessary, than to a schedule.

 

It can be any time just give more visibility to the customers through communication.

 

I would thing a few weeks before final would be idea, but at least some notice.

 

They must be doing it internaly anyway so the ships can get the orders in

 

 

The lists don't have to be 100% of the wines just that core group will be availabe over the next few months

 

 

They could probably automate it within the provisioning systems if they wanted and have more regular update projcting availability forward.

[chamima]

I just want to point out again that this was never an issue until the recent abnormally large prices increases coupled with cuts in on board services.

[TravelerThom]

I think Celebrity posted on this thread also. Yes, post 449 in fact.

Yes, that is the very thread I quoted in its entirety when first asking in post 505 where the info was. No one (Celebrity or otherwise) should say that they have shared info and not give a clue where. There are thousands of threads on CruiseCritic, and to post info on one of them and assume that it can be found by readers of another thread is poor form. And YES I did use the search function looking for it, but obviously not with the proper parameters.

 

Thom

[SWORRUB1]

I am now convinced that there has been a massive misunderstanding regarding the change to pricing that Celebrity have had.

 

What we know is that 'on board' prices on menu's are increased by 15% because us Brits can't add up, or we presuambly refuse to pay it when ships sail from the Uk.

 

This has lead to employee's of Celebrity deciding at a ship level that a UK price list with say $10.50 on it means that with the $9.00 limit on the Classic package then the drink was not available on the package, when actually the price limit should have been $9 plus 15% = $10.35 and therefore perfectly OK on the Classic package.

 

All of this of course is complicated because of the example lists that have been widely available directly from the Celebrity webpage, this has raised expectations of Customers that the drinks shown would be covered. It would now seem that we are virtually back to where the list started from with possibly the notable exception of Jamieson's, however it would now seem that several alternatives have been provided and that is just fine with me.

 

I think that the hunger for a list of wines is somewhat over the top as they will vary probably on a sailing by sailing basis, however what should be available is a roughly equivilent number and quailty to maintain the Customers choice.

 

Of course this view assumes that there is no plan by Celebrity to actually devalue the drinks available within the package,and the evidence recently seems to suggest that this is true.

 

I do feel sorry though for the Customers who have been affected by the confusion and hope that they can be compensated

Edited May 21, 2014 by SWORRUB1
spelling

[The_Big_M]

It can be any time just give more visibility to the customers through communication.

 

Well, they've done that now.

 

However, as said, making a certain date locks them in, when they may want to change things at other times for competitive or other reasons.

 

I would thing a few weeks before final would be idea, but at least some notice.

 

Well, that date would be different for everybody. And after many have booked and paid as well, so not of great benefit.

[Compease]

The attached document was posted by "Official " Celebrity Cruises under the thread

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42812518#post42812518

Classic Beverage Package 5-19.pdf

[Pushka]

The attached document was posted by "Official " Celebrity Cruises under the thread

 

 

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=42812518#post42812518

 

 

Yes. That is the one the Celebrity Rep posted in this thread.

[hammo]

Anyone seen a Premium Package update yet ? Responding to the Classic Package outcry and not reacting in good time and in similar fashion for those who purchased the Premium Upgrade is what bulls do after a big feed.:eek:

[Christine Frances]

Anyone seen a Premium Package update yet ? Responding to the Classic Package outcry and not reacting in good time and in similar fashion for those who purchased the Premium Upgrade is what bulls do after a big feed.:eek:

 

Maybe it would be better for you to cancel the upgrade and wait until you are on board to do it and then you can satisfy yourself that you will know exactly what you are getting. Princess and RCCL do not specify what is in any of their drink packages - it is all based on drink prices. So you know already more than any of the people that will be sailing on those lines.

[woodyren]

Maybe it would be better for you to cancel the upgrade and wait until you are on board to do it and then you can satisfy yourself that you will know exactly what you are getting. Princess and RCCL do not specify what is in any of their drink packages - it is all based on drink prices. So you know already more than any of the people that will be sailing on those lines.

 

I agree that I would not be purchasing the premium upgrade until on board. It was my plan to do this even prior to the goalpost shifting fiasco.

 

What you say about Princess and RCCL is also true but I think by the lack of threads on here complaining about their packages it is not likely that either of those have had a wholesale shifting of products outside of what the packages previously contained.

 

Until the recent shift Celebrity was also just taken on trust. It was their sneaky move on this that has made this "rod for their own back".