Drinks Package rises and Consumer Protection legislation.

[cle-guy]

 

The problem is if you offer pre pay packages then discount even more on the ship that causes issues.

 

I' ve been bitten by the 'prepay' bug with hotels in the UK.... I prepaid to get the lowest advanced rate possible for my post- TA stay.

 

A week later they did a mass mailing and I could have gotten a suite less than what I paid by prepaying a standard room, this was the W Leicester Square in London. [uK Consumer protections be damned - where was my value for money, those profiteers!!!]

 

They wouldn't even upgrade my room to a suite even though they had collected more money from me than the suite was selling for. That damned fine print and disclaimers buried deep in their terms and conditions.....

 

What really ticked me off, was the email was personalized with my name and that particular weeks,d only a week after booking.....and O couldn't take advantage of it. it was like them rubbing my nose in it. I was surprised however on arrival, they did upgrade me at the front desk when I asked....it was a slow holiday weekend. SO in the end, they came through, but not in reply to my phone and email correspondence.

[Christine Frances]

The fishy site is also good for checking "stats" as you can see the previous years identical sailing for your booked cruise and how the pricing fluctuated right up until sailing. I don't know why we can't name this site as I don't think it is a TA as you can't book through it:confused:

[hulamoon]

Not for some sailings. On our Nov 11 day Equinox the current cost per person for a balcony cabin, ]WITHOUT any perk, is over $600 higher than what we paid. The Aqua cat cabins are close to $800 pp higher. With these prices we won't have to worry about a crowded sailing. Anyone that books now would have to be really wanting to get outta town.:)

 

Congrats on having a good rate for the sailing. We paid a lot less for the same one last year. My point was that the trend was higher rates from what I paid in the last couple of years, in my experience and shopping. Have a great cruise.

[TropicalAlbino]

How did you get the list?

 

Was it same ship?

Same itinerary?

 

I have a copy of the wines available in the MDR when I booked our Premium Package -- I will expect these wines at least to be available - or an equal equivalent - and included in our package price - no extra , or there will be a stink in the MDR.:eek:

Edited May 18, 2014 by TropicalAlbino

[insidecabin]

The fishy site is also good for checking "stats" as you can see the previous years identical sailing for your booked cruise and how the pricing fluctuated right up until sailing. I don't know why we can't name this site as I don't think it is a TA as you can't book through it:confused:

 

it seems CC is keen stopping people trying to get deals unless it is through one of their promoted TA's, allowing the promoting of a place that will reduce cruise line revenues by highlighting price drops would not go down well with the cruiselines.

 

They won't even let you name that compare site where you post you requirements and let anyone bid for your business

 

They don't want anyone else setting up groups of passengers on the same sailings.

[TropicalAlbino]

Celebrity, I had upgraded to premium package a few months ago but I have decided to call in and cancel that upgrade and get my money back mainly because of the confusion regarding this.

 

Suggestion. Before making wholesale changes to something someone has already purchased (drink prices for example affect that.) My wife and I for one love the Catana Malbec and although it still looks to be in the premium package - I am unsure.

 

Don

[Christine Frances]

That's us Curt!

It will be an interesting watch as final approaches to see what happens afterward.

 

We get off when you get on:D Our TA (Oct 27th) is sold out but apparently a few TA's have some group space left. Will see how much comes back to Celebrity closer to final.

[cle-guy]

We get off when you get on:D Our TA (Oct 27th) is sold out but apparently a few TA's have some group space left. Will see how much comes back to Celebrity closer to final.

 

My best suite finds are always either the week after final payment, or a month prior to sailing.

 

I find lots of folks book and deposit, then come time, they cancel.

 

Of course one needs flexibility in travel of with regard to time off, airline costs, and hotel costs if needed for it to work

[Christine Frances]

Celebrity, I had upgraded to premium package a few months ago but I have decided to call in and cancel that upgrade and get my money back mainly because of the confusion regarding this.

 

Suggestion. Before making wholesale changes to something someone has already purchased (drink prices for example affect that.) My wife and I for one love the Catana Malbec and although it still looks to be in the premium package - I am unsure.

 

Don

 

Your cruise isn't until 6 months:confused: You can cancel anytime up to 4 days before sailing! My gosh, give it a week or so and see what happens! If your Catana Malbec has disappeared then cancel.

[wpgcycler]

Celebrity, I had upgraded to premium package a few months ago but I have decided to call in and cancel that upgrade and get my money back mainly because of the confusion regarding this.

 

Suggestion. Before making wholesale changes to something someone has already purchased (drink prices for example affect that.) My wife and I for one love the Catana Malbec and although it still looks to be in the premium package - I am unsure.

 

Don

 

Nothing to be unsure about - it's $10.50, well inside the premium limit.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2042016

[NLH Arizona]

Celebrity, I had upgraded to premium package a few months ago but I have decided to call in and cancel that upgrade and get my money back mainly because of the confusion regarding this.

 

Suggestion. Before making wholesale changes to something someone has already purchased (drink prices for example affect that.) My wife and I for one love the Catana Malbec and although it still looks to be in the premium package - I am unsure.

 

Don

I'd cancel it now, if it were me. No need to spend time worrying about it.

[RDC1]

Well, if they return EVERYTHING to where it was then your view of the change will be correct - and perhaps is even part of the decision making process. If they return only SOME of the items back, they this will prove out that they are testing and seeing what works and what doesn't and what things are most important to their customers and what matters little - not POOR market research, but as a result of that research.

 

In fact if they don't move ALL beverages back to the same scheme, then option B wasn't the reason, as they will still have the same issue on those items that were't moved back.

 

We all hope they will all return the old scheme, but I assume since they have not just said the list remains the same means they are probably moving some of the specific highest complained about beverages back, and I bet they don't even move ALL the highest complained about items back. I'm certain they are doing supply and demand testing here, and will continue to modify this lists thru the summer as they attempt to maximize revenues and margins, as a good company should do.

 

In my business that moves from place to place every 6 months, in 1 city we will sell a t-shirt for $12. In the next we raise the price to $15 and monitor the take up rate reduction, versus the increased profit margin to determine at what point the price increase actually costs money. Many times selling fewer items actually brings increased bottom line profit, with less work that adds extra ancillary savings. Each market is different. We look at our top selling SKU;'s in each market every time we move we make these adjustments the first few weeks of operation until we find the perfect price. In Los Angelss we can sell the t-shirt for $24, in Milwaukee, $12 is the limit, it's the same t-shirt and costs me the same, I just make better margin in Los Angeles.

 

The difference in this case is that they made changes that significantly impacted the value of something that people had purchased, but not yet received, without giving people the option of rescinding their purchase.

 

A good example is the airlines. Back when airlines added baggage fees, most of them, if not all, did not impose the fees on people that had purchased their tickets prior to the fee announcement.

 

While Celebrity can certainly raise prices or make changes, they should have grandfathered in those that had already purchased the packages and made the change applicable on to those that purchased or received the benefit under the 123 incentives, after the announced change date. I expect that their systems are not set up to allow them to grandfather it easily. In that case they could have done the equivalent by:

 

1. Notifying those that had purchased it or selected it under the 123 program and allowed them to cancel or select another option.

or

2. Granted those that had the package some kind of OBC to compensate the out of pocket expense for the difference (they certainly have the consumption data to model the median value).

or

3. Automatically upgraded those that had the classic package to the higher package (which is now similar in value to the drinks on the old classic package)

 

Celebrity certainly has the ability to identify those that had made the purchase/selection prior to the change date.

[cle-guy]

The difference in this case is that they made changes that significantly impacted the value of something that people had purchased, but not yet received, without giving people the option of rescinding their purchase.

 

A good example is the airlines. Back when airlines added baggage fees, most of them, if not all, did not impose the fees on people that had purchased their tickets prior to the fee announcement.

 

While Celebrity can certainly raise prices or make changes, they should have grandfathered in those that had already purchased the packages and made the change applicable on to those that purchased or received the benefit under the 123 incentives, after the announced change date. I expect that their systems are not set up to allow them to grandfather it easily. In that case they could have done the equivalent by:

 

1. Notifying those that had purchased it or selected it under the 123 program and allowed them to cancel or select another option.

or

2. Granted those that had the package some kind of OBC to compensate the out of pocket expense for the difference (they certainly have the consumption data to model the median value).

or

3. Automatically upgraded those that had the classic package to the higher package (which is now similar in value to the drinks on the old classic package)

 

Celebrity certainly has the ability to identify those that had made the purchase/selection prior to the change date.

 

I actually 100% agree with this., They SHOULD have or COULD have, but didn't. I still stick to the point that they had no LEGAL REQUIREMENT to do so as many posted they do.

 

I think they could and maybe even should give those with 123 Beverage packages option to reselect either OBC or gratuities and that should shut this whole matter down.

 

I believe strongly their onboard POS systems wouldn't be capable of the nuance otherwise the elite coupons would't be used, the card swipe would just figure out the free gelato, captains club freebies from 5-7 in particular bars, discount on wines etc....

 

Those that purchased it in advance have the ability to cancel and return the purchase. those that were gifted it, not sure what options they have, but it was a gift/perk/freebie/enticement/promotional add-on subject to change as I read the terms but no need to rehash the freebie versus value added into the overall cruise experience none here will ever agree on - absent appropriate word from consumer protections bureaus.

Edited May 18, 2014 by cle-guy

[SWORRUB1]

Spot on, RDC1 the original lists were issed by Celebrity, if something does not now fall into the limits then that should be Celebrity's problem, either they have put up the price by too much and excluded it when they shouldnt have, or the limit per drink that you can obtain with the package is now too low. Either way it is up to them to fix it.

 

I notice now that everything is nearly back to 'normal' but all of this could have and should have been avoided.

 

Shame about the ones who have already sailed!

Edited May 18, 2014 by SWORRUB1

[SWORRUB1]

..... I still stick to the point that they had no LEGAL REQUIREMENT to do ...

 

 

 

.....and I think you are wrong.

 

 

What we can agree on though is the appalling effect that this whole affair has had on Customer relations.

[Jana60]

Remember that ships sail under flags of convenience. Your law, my law...most everyone else's law is not their law. However the change in policy should be grandfathered to those purchased prior or sufficient notification to the purchaser.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

It appears from the link provided that celebrity has a regular drinks package and a premium package. If they previously had only one drinks package they should have to give those customers who purchased it the premium drinks package.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forums mobile app

[RDC1]

I actually 100% agree with this., They SHOULD have or COULD have, but didn't. I still stick to the point that they had no LEGAL REQUIREMENT to do so as many posted they do.

 

I think they could and maybe even should give those with 123 Beverage packages option to reselect either OBC or gratuities and that should shut this whole matter down.

 

I believe strongly their onboard POS systems wouldn't be capable of the nuance otherwise the elite coupons would't be used, the card swipe would just figure out the free gelato, captains club freebies from 5-7 in particular bars, discount on wines etc....

 

Those that purchased it in advance have the ability to cancel and return the purchase. those that were gifted it, not sure what options they have, but it was a gift/perk/freebie/enticement/promotional add-on subject to change as I read the terms but no need to rehash the freebie versus value added into the overall cruise experience none here will ever agree on - absent appropriate word from consumer protections bureaus.

 

While they have clauses in their contract making it difficult for an individual to take action, I would suspect that if a state AG was to take action on behalf of the residents of their state, the AG would be successful.

 

I would disagree that the option to change language in the offer would pertain to the value of the offer. The way it is written in the contract was tied to the prices currently charged for the items being offered and was tied to not providing additional benefits if Celebrity modified the price (ie raised or lowered the price of the classic package), not the value of what would could be expected to receive for the package.

[wallie5446]

It appears from the link provided that celebrity has a regular drinks package and a premium package. If they previously had only one drinks package they should have to give those customers who purchased it the premium drinks package.

 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Forums mobile app

 

They have always had the 2 options, the Classic pkg, and the Premium.

[cle-guy]

While they have clauses in their contract making it difficult for an individual to take action, I would suspect that if a state AG was to take action on behalf of the residents of their state, the AG would be successful.

 

I would disagree that the option to change language in the offer would pertain to the value of the offer. The way it is written in the contract was tied to the prices currently charged for the items being offered and was tied to not providing additional benefits if Celebrity modified the price (ie raised or lowered the price of the classic package), not the value of what would could be expected to receive for the package.

 

That the packages have not gone fully back to what they are then still leaves from for AG actions. Let's see what the AG's and consumer protection bureaus decide then and we will see.

 

Again, abesent any actions from AG's or Consumer Protections bureaus, leads one to say that this is all being done as a customer service issue, NOT due to any legal requirements to do so. If X had any concern whatsoever they were in violation of any laws and regulations, they would have had to revert 100% back to the old scheme and rework a rollout of a changed schemens100% back to the old scheme and rework a rollout of a changed scheme. Seems to me they have reacted somewhat to the strongest complaints about the changes, but have not yet put back into place 100% of the offerings that were included in notices, advertisements, lists, menus and all other publications X is up to.

 

Another poster (not sure if this thread or another ) has a comprehensive list going of the specific products still absent from the revised program of Friday afternoon. And there are many brands still excluded from the Classic that are now in the Premium.

[ghstudio]

 

Another poster (not sure if this thread or another ) has a comprehensive list going of the specific products still absent from the revised program of Friday afternoon. And there are many brands still excluded from the Classic that are now in the Premium.

 

and there are many brands added to the Classic package....and too many questions to even think about asking, let alone researching....eg is the list in the UK advertisement identical to the one on the web site? Then there is the question (oh this will start a whole new tangent) if someone from the UK books with a US agent, which laws apply and is it even a legal booking or should Celebrity just cancel it when you arrive at the ship (what's in the fine print...not what do people do or experience). There's a legal line where reasonableness sets in. Believe me, you don't want Celebrity to excercise all it's rights, even if they are in the fine print or passenger guidelines. Refuse passage to someone who tries to bring extra wine on board...really, you want that to happen.

 

For me...and I guess I don't even really have a dog in this hunt, celebrity's current list is, in spirit and mostly in fact, the same as they've shown in the past....when you consider that normal business practice is to change prices of some items for whatever reason.

 

We seem to have non lawyers discussing/arguing (you pick) about both the laws and the fine print here.....not sure what the value is other than personal pride....

 

I'm getting off my soapbox now....

Edited May 18, 2014 by ghstudio

[insidecabin]

The fishy site is also good for checking "stats" as you can see the previous years identical sailing for your booked cruise and how the pricing fluctuated right up until sailing. I don't know why we can't name this site as I don't think it is a TA as you can't book through it:confused:

 

stumbled on this which could be the reason

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/price-drop

[Christine Frances]

stumbled on this which could be the reason

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/price-drop

 

Ah ha!!! I forgot! CC has their own!

[mr bluetoon]

I' ve been bitten by the 'prepay' bug with hotels in the UK.... I prepaid to get the lowest advanced rate possible for my post- TA stay.

 

A week later they did a mass mailing and I could have gotten a suite less than what I paid by prepaying a standard room, this was the W Leicester Square in London. [uK Consumer protections be damned - where was my value for money, those profiteers!!!]

 

They wouldn't even upgrade my room to a suite even though they had collected more money from me than the suite was selling for. That damned fine print and disclaimers buried deep in their terms and conditions.....

 

What really ticked me off, was the email was personalized with my name and that particular weeks,d only a week after booking.....and O couldn't take advantage of it. it was like them rubbing my nose in it. I was surprised however on arrival, they did upgrade me at the front desk when I asked....it was a slow holiday weekend. SO in the end, they came through, but not in reply to my phone and email correspondence.

 

I think this is where there is confusion between our US cousins and the rest of the world arises, when we pay for something we're protected by rights to get what we paid for, in your case of the hotel room you were happy to pay the given rate, so can't have recourse, but if they gave you a lesser room you could claim:)

In the US i'ts the lowest price you're entitled to but I don't know how it works if the product were less;)

[cle-guy]

I think this is where there is confusion between our US cousins and the rest of the world arises, when we pay for something we're protected by rights to get what we paid for, in your case of the hotel room you were happy to pay the given rate, so can't have recourse, but if they gave you a lesser room you could claim:)

 

Actually when I booked, a UK hotel in the UK, booked and paid for in GBP, the rate I booked was listed as "Lowest Advertised Price - Prepayment Required". My email to them was "I booked the lowest priced room, and now the room sells for less than I paid for it so you have not in fact given me the lowest price on that room." I then went on to suggest rather than grant me a refund, simply change the reservation to a higher category room and I'd be satisfied. They didn't do so. Not until I arrived at the property and asked after they assigned me a room for a upgrade if they were slow that weekend. I suspect my Gold Status at Starwood had more to do with it than customer service related to the email exchange months prior.

 

And mind you THEY emailed ME the new ADVERTISEMENT with a price lower than what I had booked just 1 eek prior. Had they not sent the email, I'd have been completely unaware of the change.

 

There was a significant price difference, so much that the next higher category room was still less than what I paid, and the room I reserved was now selling straight out with no restrictions for less than the "Lowest Advertised Rate - Prepayment Required" I had booked just a week prior. Talk about bait and switch!

 

I still stayed at the hotel, and stayed again this year, it has a great location for me. Many more things go into my decision making process than simple pricing and specific amenities. This hotel is one of the few exceptions to my Marriott hotels at all times at all costs rule.....I find the London Marriott's not in the areas I like to stay at most of the time.

Edited May 18, 2014 by cle-guy

[woodyren]

Sorry - my response was meant to be in regards to on-board revenue generators such as drinks prices and specialty dining. The Cleveland Marriott charges $5 for a Bud Light, the Palm Beach Marriott, $7. The Cleveland Marriott $12 for the Marriott Burger, the Newark Airport $14. That kind of pricing.

 

Yet these threads are all insisting that pricing must be fleet-wide and stagnant, I'm suggesting we may soon see a time that onboard pricing may vary.

 

I understand all of what you are saying and agree with you about price rises and fluctuations. That is the way any market operates.

 

What I think you and some others on here do not fully understand is why the majority of people were concerned.

 

If there is a package offered then the price of the package should be where the fluctuations in price occurs not the drinks (in general terms) that are contained in the package.

 

Also when one buys/orders something and pays for it or places a deposit then the contents should be as ordered at that price.

 

Again there did not seem to be many complaints or threads on here when there were occasional differences in brands available because reasonable people could see that the content was similar. It was the whole sale on that decision movement of a huge number of products out side the package that, rightly so in my opinion, raised peoples anger.

 

I am very pleased that Celebrity has (or appears to have) rescinded on their decision and I think that change was totally due to customer reaction. I hope the trend of listening to customer feedback continues.

 

By the way all this talk has made me very thirsty:D