Coexisting with smokers?

[1of4]

FWIW, which is probably not much except for my family, I do a cost/benefit analysis as that is what I do...I analize risk.

 

Segregation is not the way to go for any issue at anytime. Telling people they have to book certain cabins inorder to smoke (or not) is segregation.

 

When I booked our first HAL cruise I researched everything (and I mean everything) except smoking as that is how much it doesn't enter my mind. After I booked and came on here I found out that HAL allowed smoking in the cabins and the balcony. Well we had a very asmatic child who had a history of getting very sick very quickly and we were in an inside. I panicked and called HAl and was told they would deep clean the cabin and if we could smell smoke then they would clean some more.

 

We never smelled smoke, thank goodness. We loved HAL more than Disney or Princess as it has many quiet places where you can sit and look out, do puzzles, read....all the things we like as our lives are so busy and noisy at home. No neon lights, no booming music...just classy.

 

A few cruises later we are booked into our first balcongy cabin. It is on the port side as there are no starboard cabins for 4 back past midship and I don't like the rocking (or risk thereof) near the bow where the majority of cabins that can sleep 4 and have a balcony are located.

 

We had to make a choice...the balcony and possibility of smelling smoke or not having a balcony for 20 days while we do a bucket list cruise with our children. I chose the balcony and we each have a battery operated fan.

 

Problem solved. I will bring a mask for DS just in case. But we have our balcony and we will enjoy it.

 

Life is full of risk and we each chose to deal with them and chose which we are willing to take. The early mornings on a balcony is what I look forward to most...as do my family as I have a place to go while they continue to sleep.:) Missing that just isn't worth it...me and my fan will love it out there!

Edited May 26, 2014 by 1of4

[kazu]

FWIW, which is probably not much except for my family, I do a cost/benefit analysis as that is what I do...I analize risk.

 

Segregation is not the way to go for any issue at anytime. Telling people they have to book certain cabins inorder to smoke (or not) is segregation.

 

When I booked our first HAL cruise I researched everything (and I mean everything) except smoking as that is how much it doesn't enter my mind. After I booked and came on here I found out that HAL allowed smoking in the cabins and the balcony. Well we had a very asmatic child who had a history of getting very sick very quickly and we were in an inside. I panicked and called HAl and was told they would deep clean the cabin and if we could smell smoke then they would clean some more.

 

We never smelled smoke, thank goodness. We loved HAL more than Disney or Princess as it has many quiet places where you can sit and look out, do puzzles, read....all the things we like as our lives are so busy and noisy at home. No neon lights, no booming music...just classy.

 

A few cruises later we are booked into our first balcongy cabin. It is on the port side as there are no starboard cabins for 4 back past midship and I don't like the rocking (or risk thereof) near the bow where the majority of cabins that can sleep 4 and have a balcony are located.

 

We had to make a choice...the balcony and possibility of smelling smoke or not having a balcony for 20 days while we do a bucket list cruise with our children. I chose the balcony and we each have a battery operated fan.

 

Problem solved. I will bring a mask for DS just in case. But we have our balcony and we will enjoy it.

 

Life is full of risk and we each chose to deal with them and chose which we are willing to take. Missing the early mornings on a balcony is what I look forward to most...as do my family as I have a place to go while they continue to sleep.:)

 

what a truly wonderful post :)

 

Loving the attitude that rings through it.

[chrispb]

The reason why the smokers don't post is because they are tired of getting into it with people. If I were a smoker, I would not read any smoking threads. What would be the point??They are never going to win the argument. But...they ARE allowed to smoke on HAL verandahs. They've won!

 

The smokers are still here. Where else would they be? I think HAL is very accomodating by allowing them to smoke on verandahs. What other line could they have gone to? Doesn't make sense!

 

It's not meant to be a war so what exactly have smokers won? It's only some smokers who try to make it one.

 

Read back before HAL implemented no smoking in rooms, bars, etc, many of those smokers said then they'd not sail HAL again. I've no idea where they've gone but who said they have to cruise?? Plus there are other lines who do cater more for smokers (just as there are other lines who cater more for non-smokers). So sensible people choose the line that suits. It is as it is (for now). Like I said, doesn't really suit anyone:cool:

[CRUZBUDS]

Just wondering...Does Carnival allow smoking on balconies? In state rooms?

 

They are also chumming for smokers ---- same policy as HAL

[solocanadian]

Well, for what little it is worth, unless the OP is next door to a very big chain smoker (and I hope not), then I would politely knock and ask if there is a way that the two of you could co-exist without putting them out nor you. Most people do not sit on their verandahs 24/7 smoking. So, if you can find out when they tend to go out and work with them, it might come to a happy conclusion.

 

Keeping in mind of course that smoking is permitted on balconies, I think many people are happy to work with others. It certainly doesn't hurt to ask in my experience

Good advice Jacqui, but may be hard for some people to ask a smoker these questions. I would not but I did feel perturbed when 2 guests at our dinner table were constantly 15 minutes late. This really bugged me on sea days whey they had no excuse but I could not find it in me to discuss it with them. We had to wait every night for these 2 bird brains to show up before we placed our order. One was a senior police officer in Ontario and the other his 25 year old son. Not a way to educate a kid in the art of being punctual.

[cruisemom42]

 

Interesting idea which we are sure has been considered. But the concept has a major flaw. With only a small minority being smokers (even among HAL cruisers) HAL might have a difficult time selling any cabins on the smoking side to non-smokers.

 

The result of such a policy could likely be many empty cabins on the smoking side. One can just imagine an HAL Promotion where they would offer 50% discounts to non-smokers willing to book a balcony cabin on the smoking side :)

 

 

Hank

P.S. DW had a thought that the ship might tip over because the non-smoking side would be full and the smoking side near empty.

 

Let's do a little math. First, the US population of smokers is at roughly 20%, but smoking populations in other countries (where cruisers may be from0 can be higher. Plus we can assume, based on vociferous attestations of non-smokers, :cool: that HAL is attracting a higher percentage of smokers vs. other lines. So for argument's sake, there could likely be 30% smokers -- plus any folks traveling with them who may or may not smoke but are unlikely to mind smoke -- on a given HAL cruise.

 

Also, not all HAL cabins have verandas. Some of us never consider a veranda for other reasons than smoking (e.g., I'm not paying 200% as a solo for one). So plenty of nonsmokers may be happy not even considering booking a veranda category cabin.

 

This puts the balance of one side smoking/one side non smoking much closer to par, in my opinion, given a relatively higher demand among the smoking population vs. the average non-smoking population.

 

As I mentioned in my earlier post, you (among others) seem to have the opinion that anyone that does not smoke shares your lack of tolerance toward smokers. It is not a black or white issue, there is a tremendous amount of grey involved. I, along with many other non smokers, would not be upset at being on the "smoking" side of the ship.

 

I quite agree. One thing missing in most of these conversations are voices of reasons. Instead we get hyperbole from both sides -- we hear of the elusive "24/7" balcony smokers from one side and the "fake coughing, comment-making" non-smokers from the other.

 

I agree with you that there's a lot of territory between the two. If I didn't have to pay a solo supplement, and I could get a reasonable deal on a veranda, it wouldn't bother me one way or the other if there were smokers nearby.

[CRUZBUDS]

Good advice Jacqui, but may be hard for some people to ask a smoker these questions. I would not but I did feel perturbed when 2 guests at our dinner table were constantly 15 minutes late. This really bugged me on sea days whey they had no excuse but I could not find it in me to discuss it with them. We had to wait every night for these 2 bird brains to show up before we placed our order. One was a senior police officer in Ontario and the other his 25 year old son. Not a way to educate a kid in the art of being punctual.

 

The answer is quite simple -- their time is more valuable than yours, and you put up with it. Many of us are tired of the tail wagging the dog:)

 

I've always been curious of the actual smoking percentages. The usual number referred to for U.S smokers is 20% ---- by the time income hits $120,000 it drops to about 13%. Smokers hate the fact that education and income are directly tied to smoking levels. What is HAL's average percentage of smokers? I don't think it's the very poor folks who peak at 34% smokers are HAL's demo.

 

I don't understand why such a small number of people who are addicted to an anti-social behavior have HAL so cowered.

 

I have no issues with the smokers, as many have said -- it's HAL :confused:

[CRUZBUDS]

The answer is quite simple -- their time is more valuable than yours, and you put up with it. Many of us are tired of the tail wagging the dog:)

 

I've always been curious of the actual smoking percentages. The usual number referred to for U.S smokers is 20% ---- by the time income hits $120,000 it drops to about 13%. Smokers hate the fact that education and income are directly tied to smoking levels. What is HAL's average percentage of smokers? I don't think it's the very poor folks who peak at 34% smokers are HAL's demo.

 

I don't understand why such a small number of people who are addicted to an anti-social behavior have HAL so cowered.

 

I have no issues with the smokers, as many have said -- it's HAL :confused:

 

Opps -- sorry -- are not HAL's demo :o

[cruz chic]

Good advice Jacqui, but may be hard for some people to ask a smoker these questions. I would not but I did feel perturbed when 2 guests at our dinner table were constantly 15 minutes late. This really bugged me on sea days whey they had no excuse but I could not find it in me to discuss it with them. We had to wait every night for these 2 bird brains to show up before we placed our order. One was a senior police officer in Ontario and the other his 25 year old son. Not a way to educate a kid in the art of being punctual.

This is part of the reason I stopped doing traditional.

 

As far as asking approaching smokers, there is no way. I've had people on 2 cruises using their kindle with the talk function, and another playing some ompapa music. I asked both of them politely if they would turn their music/kindle down. The kindle guy turned it down that day, and it was up the next. The ompapa music person refused to turn theirs down, so I decided to blast mine to give them an idea of what it sounded like. They soon learned. While there are some considerate people in the world I think many think "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want". I'm not getting into that dogfight.

Edited May 26, 2014 by cruz chic

[IRL_Joanie]

The reason why the smokers don't post is because they are tired of getting into it with people. If I were a smoker, I would not read any smoking threads. What would be the point??They are never going to win the argument. But...they ARE allowed to smoke on HAL verandahs. They've won!

 

The smokers are still here. Where else would they be? I think HAL is very accomodating by allowing them to smoke on verandahs. What other line could they have gone to? Doesn't make sense!

 

:D:DYes we are still here!! Just not worth the arguments or hassles, so most of us "Smokers" just sit back and twiddle our thumbs as we read the posts on CC:D

 

JOanie

Edited May 26, 2014 by IRL_Joanie

[Mytime2014]

This is part of the reason I stopped doing traditional.

 

As far as asking approaching smokers, there is no way. I've had people on 2 cruises using their kindle with the talk function, and another playing some ompapa music. I asked both of them politely if they would turn their music/kindle down. The kindle guy turned it down that day, and it was up the next. The ompapa music person refused to turn theirs down, so I decided to blast mine to give them an idea of what it sounded like. They soon learned. While there are some considerate people in the world I think many think "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want". I'm not getting into that dogfight.

 

That's impolite anywhere, not just on a ship but some people just don't get it. People should either have their devices turned down or use an ear piece/bud etc. [and if either of those things are impossible due to a hearing defect or physical anomaly, listen where there are no other people around]

I like to listen to music at work and because I am on the phone, it is very hard to have an earbud in while I'm talking....so when I turn it on, I go outside my cubicle and if my neighbor can hear it, I turn it down.

That's just normal courtesy [and the rule at work!!]

Edited May 26, 2014 by Mytime2014

[richwmn]

The answer is quite simple -- their time is more valuable than yours, and you put up with it. Many of us are tired of the tail wagging the dog:)

 

I've always been curious of the actual smoking percentages. The usual number referred to for U.S smokers is 20% ---- by the time income hits $120,000 it drops to about 13%. Smokers hate the fact that education and income are directly tied to smoking levels. What is HAL's average percentage of smokers? I don't think it's the very poor folks who peak at 34% smokers are HAL's demo.

 

I don't understand why such a small number of people who are addicted to an anti-social behavior have HAL so cowered.

 

I have no issues with the smokers, as many have said -- it's HAL :confused:

 

HAL is not "cowered" by a small number of people, they are just trying to be accommodating to as many people as possible. It is a small number of non smokers that are so against those who smoke that nothing short of a complete ban on smoking will suffice.

[sail7seas]

HAL is not "cowered" by a small number of people, they are just trying to be accommodating to as many people as possible. It is a small number of non smokers that are so against those who smoke that nothing short of a complete ban on smoking will suffice.

 

 

:confused: What makes you say it is such a small number of non smokers that are so against smoking? How do you know that? I've never seen HAL release such statistics?

 

[Chelly]

HAL is not "cowered" by a small number of people, they are just trying to be accommodating to as many people as possible. It is a small number of non smokers that are so against those who smoke that nothing short of a complete ban on smoking will suffice.

 

BBM

Respectfully, I believe the non smokers are not so against those who smoke. I believe the protest is against where they smoke. They just want to breath unpolluted air.

[cruz chic]

:D:DYes we are still here!! Just not worth the arguments or hassles, so most of us "Smokers" just sit back and twiddle our thumbs as we read the posts on CC:D

 

JOanie

 

Really? Because I think smokers have been quite vocal on this thread. I guess my memory is worse than I thought.

[cruz chic]

BBM

Respectfully, I believe the non smokers are not so against those who smoke. I believe the protest is against where they smoke. They just want to breath unpolluted air.

 

Exactly. I haven't seen anyone say that they hate smokers.

[sail7seas]

Exactly. I haven't seen anyone say that they hate smokers.

 

 

I don't dislike smokers; I dislike second hand smoke.

 

[Chelly]

Exactly. I haven't seen anyone say that they hate smokers.

 

Agree. We all have the right to our choices. We don't have the right to make others uncomfortable. Smokers are aware that by smoking on balconies, they may be causing the discomfort of others. So, by willfully smoking on that balcony, they are saying "I don't give a dam how you feel. I will do exactly as I please!"

[richwmn]

I don't understand why such a small number of people who are addicted to an anti-social behavior have HAL so cowered.

 

I have no issues with the smokers, as many have said -- it's HAL :confused:

 

:confused: What makes you say it is such a small number of non smokers that are so against smoking? How do you know that? I've never seen HAL release such statistics?

 

 

I can say it just as easily as CRUZBUDS can say that HAL is "cowering" to a small number of smokers. You are correct, HAL has never released such statistics and most likely never will.

 

At the same time, out of all the people who post on CC in the HAL forum Smoking threads it seems that it is a small number of the same members who constantly post about HAL being more restrictive on their smoking locations.

[cruisemom42]

Agree. We all have the right to our choices. We don't have the right to make others uncomfortable. Smokers are aware that by smoking on balconies, they may be causing the discomfort of others. So, by willfully smoking on that balcony, they are saying "I don't give a dam how you feel. I will do exactly as I please!"

 

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole I referenced above.

 

My parents are smokers and I can 100% assure you that they are not saying that. Not at all. Such a thought would never occur to them. They are saying "I am engaging in an activity that is fully allowed by the management of HAL on a ship where there are limited places that I can smoke. Furthermore, I would never smoke anywhere onboard the ship or elsewhere that it is not allowed."

[Chelly]

This is exactly the kind of hyperbole I referenced above.

 

My parents are smokers and I can 100% assure you that they are not saying that. Not at all. Such a thought would never occur to them. They are saying "I am engaging in an activity that is fully allowed by the management of HAL on a ship where there are limited places that I can smoke. Furthermore, I would never smoke anywhere onboard the ship or elsewhere that it is not allowed."

 

BBM The thought that they are intentionally polluting the air that others breath, thus causing discomfort and perhaps medical issues never occurs to them? Well, what does that say?

[LindaM]

Agree. We all have the right to our choices. We don't have the right to make others uncomfortable. Smokers are aware that by smoking on balconies, they may be causing the discomfort of others. So, by willfully smoking on that balcony, they are saying "I don't give a dam how you feel. I will do exactly as I please!"

 

Well, they paid for a verandah, so they can do as they please. And, they chose HAL because HAL allows them to smoke. If I were a smoker, I would not sail any line but HAL, for that reason. As a former smoker, I know the drill. I wouldn't have wanted to get dressed and go outside to find a spot for my first smoke!

 

There is no way HAL will ever stop smoking on verandahs. I know many of us have our reasons for sailing HAL, but it is known as a line for older people. If they cut off smoking, there is really no reason for smokers to choose HAL over another line. What is has now that differentiates itself is smoking on verandahs and midsized ships.

[cruisemom42]

BBM The thought that they are intentionally polluting the air that others breath, thus causing discomfort and perhaps medical issues never occurs to them? Well, what does that say?

 

Your own inner dialog is highly questionable when someone else is carrying out an activity that is legal and explicitly allowed in the space where they are doing it.

 

My parents are kind, thoughtful caring people, avid travelers (and longtime HAL cruisers), rule followers, who successfully raised two independent daughters to have the same values that they do and not to go around judging others.

Edited May 26, 2014 by cruisemom42

[Lizzie68]

Agree. We all have the right to our choices. We don't have the right to make others uncomfortable. Smokers are aware that by smoking on balconies, they may be causing the discomfort of others. So, by willfully smoking on that balcony, they are saying "I don't give a dam how you feel. I will do exactly as I please!"

 

I don't think it's fair to say that. They are following rules, and I do think they should have somewhere comfortable and warm to smoke inside the ship too, that is well ventilated. I think all we can hope for - and actually expect - is some consideration from the smoker when neighbours are out on their balcony - smoke on the other side of the balcony, say, not right up against the partition, for instance. Keep the smoke within confines, as far as possible.

[summer slope]

I don't think it's fair to say that. They are following rules' date=' and I do think they should have somewhere comfortable and warm to smoke inside the ship too, that is well ventilated.[b'] I think all we can hope for - and actually expect - is some consideration from the smoker when neighbours are out on their balcony - smoke on the other side of the balcony, say, not right up against the partition, for instance. Keep the smoke within confines, as far as possible[/b].

 

Amen.