HAL Ryndam insult to British & American passengers

[steamtrainfan123]

My wife and I sailed with Holland America Line (HAL) MS Ryndam to the Norwegian Fjords on 31st May 2014. The Captain had already told us that 70% of the passengers were British and the remainder were mainly American's or Canadian's. On Friday 6th June the theme in the main dining room was International Around the World and each table had a flag setting. I asked the waiter where the Union Flag was as we were 5 British people but he just shrugged. My friend & I checked the upper level of the dining room and could find only 1 Union Flag & 1 American flag so I complained to the person in charge of the upper level. I asked him if he knew the relevance of the day and he said it was the 70th anniversary of D-Day. I told him that I felt insulted that in the pre-dinner announcements no mention was made of the anniversary and that the Union flag was represented on only 1 table. The response I got was that he would pass on my comments. I e-mailed HAL with my complaints and have had a response but with no mention of my complaint re-lack of Union flags & D-day.

 

I know other passengers were suitable disgusted at Ryndam's apparent inability to amend the normal Around the World night to recognise such an important Anniversary relevant to the overwhelming majority of it's passengers.

 

It is interesting to note that the captain of the Ryndam is British although he now lives in the USA.

 

NB I would have written quite a good review of Ryndam (excluding dreadful organisation on outside decks & in the Lido alternative dining area) if it had not been for their totally unacceptable response to my criticisma of their treatment of 70th Anniversary of D-Day

[sun~]

D-Day was an important anniversary not only for the Brits and Americans, but Canadians too. Don't forget that historical fact.

 

I wonder though, for so many folks now, it isn't thought about as much as there is no personal connection to the Second World War. My father and father in law were too young to serve in during WWII, so my lads have no connection to grand parents with "war stories". I think for so many folks now, the anniversary of D-Day isn't on their minds. Sad, but true. 70 years is a long time.

 

That being said, we Canadians still saw celebrations and commemorative events for D-Day. I think it is important for the older generation to remind the younger folks of these important historical events.

[luddite]

My wife and I sailed with Holland America Line (HAL) MS Ryndam to the Norwegian Fjords on 31st May 2014. The Captain had already told us that 70% of the passengers were British and the remainder were mainly American's or Canadian's. On Friday 6th June the theme in the main dining room was International Around the World and each table had a flag setting. I asked the waiter where the Union Flag was as we were 5 British people but he just shrugged. My friend & I checked the upper level of the dining room and could find only 1 Union Flag & 1 American flag so I complained to the person in charge of the upper level. I asked him if he knew the relevance of the day and he said it was the 70th anniversary of D-Day. I told him that I felt insulted that in the pre-dinner announcements no mention was made of the anniversary and that the Union flag was represented on only 1 table. The response I got was that he would pass on my comments. I e-mailed HAL with my complaints and have had a response but with no mention of my complaint re-lack of Union flags & D-day.

 

I know other passengers were suitable disgusted at Ryndam's apparent inability to amend the normal Around the World night to recognise such an important Anniversary relevant to the overwhelming majority of it's passengers.

 

It is interesting to note that the captain of the Ryndam is British although he now lives in the USA.

 

NB I would have written quite a good review of Ryndam (excluding dreadful organisation on outside decks & in the Lido alternative dining area) if it had not been for their totally unacceptable response to my criticisma of their treatment of 70th Anniversary of D-Day

 

This wasn't an insult.

[Talisker92]

D-Day was an important anniversary not only for the Brits and Americans, but Canadians too. Don't forget that historical fact.

 

. I think it is important for the older generation to remind the younger folks of these important historical events. And the sacrifices many made on that day

I was in England on the 50TH anniversary of D-Day and I have one of the 50 pence pieces struck to commemorate the day.

[brookeinmn]

This wasn't an insult.

 

I agree. While an announcement would have been a nice gesture, I don't think I would have expected the dining room to be decorated in the flags of allied forces.

[sapper1]

D-Day was an important anniversary not only for the Brits and Americans, but Canadians too. Don't forget that historical fact.

 

I wonder though, for so many folks now, it isn't thought about as much as there is no personal connection to the Second World War. My father and father in law were too young to serve in during WWII, so my lads have no connection to grand parents with "war stories". I think for so many folks now, the anniversary of D-Day isn't on their minds. Sad, but true. 70 years is a long time.

 

That being said, we Canadians still saw celebrations and commemorative events for D-Day. I think it is important for the older generation to remind the younger folks of these important historical events.

 

If you were to pay a visit to Juno Beach and the nearby Canadian cemetery you would feel a connection that would move you to tears. We did and we were. Last year.

[navybankerteacher]

D-Day was an important anniversary not only for the Brits and Americans, but Canadians too. Don't forget that historical fact.

 

I wonder though, for so many folks now, it isn't thought about as much as there is no personal connection to the Second World War. My father and father in law were too young to serve in during WWII, so my lads have no connection to grand parents with "war stories". I think for so many folks now, the anniversary of D-Day isn't on their minds. Sad, but true. 70 years is a long time.

 

That being said, we Canadians still saw celebrations and commemorative events for D-Day. I think it is important for the older generation to remind the younger folks of these important historical events.

 

It is amazing how quickly the decades pass.. Being of a generation growing up in the 1940's remembering rationing, practice blackouts and air raid drills ( in safe New York) and particularly listening to radio reports on the evening of June 6, it is always a part of my memory. My father dropped out of college in April of 1917 to go fight the Kaiser, three of his younger brothers served in WW II.

 

While it is always in my memory - and I have infected my children with a love of history, so they know the importance of D Day, I really cannot fault HAL for not sharing - they are of the " let's get on with things" generation. Things are the way they are - two of my first teachers were veterans of the trenches in WW I, and I can recall their bemoaning the fact that their war was totally forgotten in the 1940's.

[sail7seas]

If you were to pay a visit to Juno Beach and the nearby Canadian cemetery you would feel a connection that would move you to tears. We did and we were. Last year.

 

 

While I understand OP's point, I more feel it is up to each of us to honor those who served and gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWII. It is not for someone else to provide the honor, respect and remembrance but for each of us to lead by example in teaching the next generations.

 

We sailed twice into Honfleur and DH did the lengthy tours to the beaches and memorials. It was too taxing for me at the time. He came back from those long days very, very moved.

 

Though he took a ship's tours (with a gentleman who personally provided his skills and talents to add to the memorials), he did not feel it was for someone else to see to it he paid his respects and honored those who served.

 

It's gotten so easy to make everything someone else's fault. No one would have stopped you from having a British, Canadian, U.S. or any other flag you may have wished. You likely saw many for sale in all the shops. While you could not have known HAL would be placing flags on dining tables, you could have gotten one for yourself/your cabin and honored the memory of those brave troops in your own way.

 

Lest you think me cavalier about honoring the huge sacrifice the Allied forces made, I recently buried my DH and saw to it he had Military Honors at his funeral. He wore the uniform of the U.S. Army and served in Viet Nam.

 

JMO...

 

Edited June 15, 2014 by sail7seas

[Homosassa]

My uncle was a Brigadier General on Eisenhower's staff and was one of the planners of the Normandy Invasion.

 

That being said, the lack of acknowledgement of D Day on board ship would have been completely unimportant to me and probably to 99.99999% of the passengers.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Homosassa

[RJ2002]

I agree. While an announcement would have been a nice gesture, I don't think I would have expected the dining room to be decorated in the flags of allied forces.

 

Agree, it would have been nice from them to make an announcement, but I would not have expected them to load a different compliment of flags on the ship for international night decorations.

[sppunk]

The International Dinner honors HAL's international fleet and guests. It is to sample other cuisines.

 

It has no relevance to historical events nor should it.

[sail7seas]

No one has mentioned there likely were guests from Axis countries aboard.

 

What about their sensibilities?

[rbp3072]

No one has mentioned there likely were guests from Axis countries aboard.

 

What about their sensibilities?

 

Very, very good point Sail. There were many sides to that time, and so many lost their lives on all if them. With the exception of the truly sadistic you-know-whats, the vast majority, on all sides, were trying to serve their respective countries. (Goes back to 'recent' events - support the troops, not necessarily the war).

 

I don't think HAL did anything wrong in this case, and wouldn't have expected them to turn a night focused on cuisine into something it shouldn't be.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I think it would be very hard for the ships to go out and buy flags of all the countries that people were from on your cruise.

And by the sounds of it, you expected the appropriate flags to be at each table. That would be an impossible job for the crew to do - especially in Open Seating.

But I do agree that some kind of an announcement should have been made about D - Day.

[luddite]

No one has mentioned there likely were guests from Axis countries aboard.

 

What about their sensibilities?

 

Well, frankly, they should apologize. But....that's really straying from the topic.

Great Britain wasn't insulted on that ship.

[Lizzie68]

Agree, it would have been nice from them to make an announcement, but I would not have expected them to load a different compliment of flags on the ship for international night decorations.

 

I agree - as an ex-Brit and now Canadian, I think it would have been a nice gesture to have an announcement, but perhaps the OP was being overly-sensitive. While it is important to always remember (and not just "move on" as has been suggested), I don't see that there was any insult here, at most it was an over-sight.

[eandj]

What was being done on other ships and cruiselines? What was being done at hotels,resorts etc?

 

While at home we recognized the anniversary date and sacrifices made, and honored those soldiers and families. If I were somewhere else like on the ship, I would probably not react angrily and be insulted, but privately and/or at my table, talk about the event and offer words of respect. No need for ceremony.

 

I think that night was a scheduled dinner theme as on every cruise. Just landed on the D Day date. So I wouldn't feel insulted.

Edited June 15, 2014 by eandj

[sapper1]

While I understand OP's point, I more feel it is up to each of us to honor those who served and gave the ultimate sacrifice in WWII. It is not for someone else to provide the honor, respect and remembrance but for each of us to lead by example in teaching the next generations.

 

We sailed twice into Honfleur and DH did the lengthy tours to the beaches and memorials. It was too taxing for me at the time. He came back from those long days very, very moved.

 

Though he took a ship's tours (with a gentleman who personally provided his skills and talents to add to the memorials), he did not feel it was for someone else to see to it he paid his respects and honored those who served.

 

It's gotten so easy to make everything someone else's fault. No one would have stopped you from having a British, Canadian, U.S. or any other flag you may have wished. You likely saw many for sale in all the shops. While you could not have known HAL would be placing flags on dining tables, you could have gotten one for yourself/your cabin and honored the memory of those brave troops in your own way.

 

Lest you think me cavalier about honoring the huge sacrifice the Allied forces made, I recently buried my DH and saw to it he had Military Honors at his funeral. He wore the uniform of the U.S. Army and served in Viet Nam.

 

JMO...

 

You are addressing me as though I was the OP. I wasn't.

The person I was replying to wasn't the OP either.

[iancal]

There is a huge difference between an insult and an oversight.

 

This was not an insult.

[kazu]

I do not think this was an insult by HAL.

 

I suspect that the flags of the countries mentioned by the OP were tattered and worn out and perhaps not fit to be on the tables?

 

On both our Maasdam & Prinsendam cruises, there was an effort to put the Canadian flag on our table. The dining room manager went around and substituted.

 

He also apologized to some stating that they had ordered new flags due to the condition of the old ones.

 

I think it's simply a matter of semantics and it IS International Night.

[sppunk]

I don't think it was an oversight either.

[TxnAquarian]

Oh goodness....I wouldn't even have noticed what flags were out. This is just another example of someone looking for issues, instead of enjoying their cruise.

 

 

 

 

Michael

[sail7seas]

You are addressing me as though I was the OP. I wasn't.

The person I was replying to wasn't the OP either.

 

 

 

Sapper,

I agree with your post. My first paragraphs were about DH going to the Memorials and being moved the way you commented you were.

 

:confused: I'm sorry I made it appear other that that I agree with you but I'm confused as to how.

 

Edited June 15, 2014 by sail7seas

[puppycanducruise]

Oh goodness....I wouldn't even have noticed what flags were out. This is just another example of someone looking for issues, instead of enjoying their cruise.

 

 

 

 

Michael

 

I agree.

[IRL_Joanie]

The International Dinner honors HAL's international fleet and guests. It is to sample other cuisines.

 

It has no relevance to historical events nor should it.

 

No one has mentioned there likely were guests from Axis countries aboard.

 

What about their sensibilities?

 

Hopefully I did not leave any one out in what I hope are, in my own opinion, the best quotes for my reply. (In case they all do not show up, I am trying to quote about 6-7 posters, to include RuthC, Sail7Seas 1st post and more)

 

Hubby is one of the "Baby Boomers," and I am of the Korean Conflict. We are, obviously, also part of the "Vietnam Conflict, as well as all the conflicts and wars since our births.

 

That being said, I do not expect to have a flag of the US of A sitting on my table in the MDR, nor hear an announcement made over the PA system when I board for our next Caribbean cruise.

 

We will be boarding the Nieuw Amsterdam on 7 December 2014...... Pearl Harbor Day.........THAT is also an important day in the USA and while I will remember the significance of that date in history, I do not expect the Captain or CD to make an announcement because there are a percentage of Americans on board.

 

While 7 December 1942 will "Live in Infamy," in the minds and hearts of many, there are those who remember, and perhaps even survived both Nagasaki or Hiroshima, and others.

 

International Night on board HAL ships is just that, International Night, and to be offended by the lack of the flag of your country and making it a focal point of dissatisfaction of a cruise, is just wrong.

 

God Bless all who gave, and are still giving their lives in order that we can make our views and thoughts so vocal.

 

Joanie

Edited June 15, 2014 by IRL_Joanie