Furious with Holland America!

[rochelle_s]

It never ceases to amaze me on Cruise Critic the way that people will attack you.

 

 

First off you don't get sick with cold air in the casino that's not true.(/QUOTE]

 

Perhaps you should research your facts before making comments. Well I did it for you. From the website: livinghealthy360.com

 

"Air conditioners, like many things in life, have their benefits and their drawbacks, especially if overused and under-maintained. ... But can too much of a good thing be hazardous to your health? The answer is “yes” in certain situations....

 

1) Exposure to cold temperature

 

Too much air conditioning is believed to cause cold and flu-like symptoms, sinus problems, bloody nose, body aches, sore joints, arthritis and other problems affected by prolonged cold air exposure. "

You don't know me, my health history or my current health. I did say in my original post that I got a cold. I conceded in a follow up that it was not 'technically' a cold.

I was on the ship. I was in the casino where the air conditioning was blasting. I know how I felt the next couple of days during which I avoided the casino. I have provided a source to back this up. Sorry if I don't just take your word that it is just not possible.

 

 

Next people that steal for a living know what their doing you left your bags with people you don't know were they your cabin guys or some one else. Think if both bags were missing that means you where targeted the bags were taged the other people saw took the bags and that's it.Now if your bages were labled with your name phone number address 99% of people would return your luggage if your told to leave your bags out side your cabin do it don't give them to anybody by the elevator not a good idea and you can't fight co. polices face it their gone we all make mistakes just don't leave your bags wher they aren't suppose to be.

 

You are not the first person to mention that I was somehow in the wrong for handing my bags to 'strangers'?

 

We are discussing a Holland America ship. We are discussing the Prinsendam. Have you ever been on either?

 

I can certainly tell the difference between a passenger sailing on what is often referred to as the 'geriatric line' and a crew member in uniform. The uniformed stewards on the ship were on average 40-50 years younger than the average Prinsendam passenger. The ship was not attacked and over run with pirates on the last night of the cruise!!! I clearly gave my bags to HAL employees not random strangers!

 

In all the days I have been on HAL ships I have always been treated very well by the crew onboard. I have never had a cabin steward treat me differently just because I wasn't in their 'section'.

 

 

** no disrespect meant for anyone's age-- just making a point**

 

 

Rochelle

[Davidson Duo]

We had disembarked a 2 week cruise in Tampa and were waiting for our shuttle. I watched another shuttle pull away with a large group and MANY pieces of luggage. It had travelled about 2 blocks when I watched it turning a corner, the back door fly open, and 2 pieces of luggage tumble out. The door then swung back closed, and the shuttle continued without being aware of what happened. We called over a police officer who happened to be nearby, and he promptly jumped in his vehicle and headed over to retrieve them. They had rolled some distance off the roadway, and were not very noticeable unless one was looking for them.

 

He returned to where we were, and promptly made some calls. They were able to eventually identify what shuttle it was, and where it was going. When they finally tracked them down, we were told that the lady who both pieces belonged to was standing at the back of the shuttle at her hotel trying to figure where they had disappeared to, and no one could explain it until they received the call from the police.

 

Both pieces of luggage that fell out belonged to the same lady. There were many pieces in there, side by side, but it was just coincidence that it was hers that fell out. No one else saw it happen except me, so it would have been just 2 more pieces that were missing if I hadn't been watching and acted on what I saw.

 

Coincidences DO happen, even when the odds seem highly unlikely. And I have travelled often with family members who have shared cabins or been next to each other. Usually when we go to get our luggage, our pieces are side by side, even though our names are totally different. We have the same colored tags, and our luggage is loaded at the same time. Odds are pretty good that they are traveling from the ship to the terminal at the same time, which means there is a high probability they would be very near each other at baggage claim.

 

We also have been at a baggage claim and seen both a husband and wife retrieving their luggage. The husband was starting to leave with his cart when the wife, holding a grey suitcase, pointed to another similar grey suitcase on his cart and commented that they only brought one grey one, so they couldn't both belong to them. Mistakes happen at all levels, and I've seen many first hand to know how easy it can happen.

 

I can empathize with the OP about the frustration in losing her luggage, but denying that there could be anything less than deliberate targeting of their luggage by HAL, or insisting the only option is that they disappeared on the ship is unfair in my opinion. Without knowing the actual true facts of how they disappeared, it is truly only speculation, and you cannot place blame until you know the truth. At this time, what the truth is, is unknown.

 

This highlights exactly why luggage insurance is covered in cruiseline's Know Before You Go literature. I am sure HAL is still actively looking for your luggage. They know that there is a certain level of expectation for PAX, and they try to makes sure we are happy. But there is also a clear policy in place regarding financial responsibility for when pieces do disappear, and it is well advertised.

 

This is a case of emotion (understandably so - no one wants their belongings to disappear), not aligning with legal responsibility. Life's reality is that sometimes when we travel stuff goes missing. No blame can be applied at this point as no one knows what actually did happen. I will cross my fingers and hope your items are found and returned to you. In the meantime, I hope you find that your credit card offers you insurance coverage for your loss. And until I know what actually happened, I refuse to assign any blame to any level of the baggage transfer process, be it HAL, the shore workers, stevedores, or another passenger. With no evidence as to where the loss happens, I can't place any blame on someone who may actually be innocent of any wrongdoing.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

I'm sorry about everything you have gone thru but I would have thought after your other bout of theft you would have taken out cruise insurance.

 

Very good point...

[sapper1]

When we travel I always make sure our suitcases stand out so they won't be grabbed in haste. We use distinctive luggage straps and I tie distinctive ribbons to the handles. I also write our last name on a piece of yellow duct tape and fasten it to the side of the bag. It may look tacky but I can spot our bags from the other end of the luggage claim area.

 

I use two airline baggage tags on each bag along with a permanent tag. There is always an information sheet just inside the suitcase lid. It is the last thing to go in each bag.

 

I also never put my bling, medicine or electronic equipment in a checked bag.

Edited July 8, 2014 by sapper1

[Going Coastal]

I think you are very brave to keep cruising when such terrible things have happened to you on two different cruise lines. I hope you have had some wonderful cruises to make up for these.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

[pschweig]

My sympathies to you and your mother.

 

I know another poster addressed your room card issue, but I wished to share my experience with other CC members. I repeatedly demagnetized my room card last November on our Holy Land cruise aboard the Rotterdam. A wonderful front desk person suggested that it was due to my cell phone. I always wear my room card on a lanyard around my neck. Sure enough - my cell phone was hung from a different lanyard around my neck everytime we went ashore! I had no more problems once I put my room card in a pocket.

 

This was something that never occurred to me which I learned about the hard way. Hopefully, this post will spare someone the problems which I, unknowingly, inflicted upon myself.

Edited July 8, 2014 by pschweig

[Surreyman]

When we travel I always make sure our suitcases stand out so they won't be grabbed in haste. We use distinctive luggage straps and I tie distinctive ribbons to the handles. I also write our last name on a piece of yellow duct tape and fasten it to the side of the bag. It may look tacky but I can spot our bags from the other end of the luggage claim area.

 

I use two airline baggage tags on each bag along with a permanent tag. There is always an information sheet just inside the suitcase lid. It is the last thing to go in each bag.

 

I also never put my bling, medicine or electronic equipment in a checked bag.

 

Sound advice, you only have to watch a carousel at an airport to see the numbers of people who have trouble identifying the right bag.

[Fouremco]

There was a very similar thread started last September on the Celebrity pages when Mel& Ken from Windsor Ontario lost their bags and were offered $100 in compensation. The thread ( http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1917602&highlight=lost+luggage) exceeded 300 posts, including a running account of the attempts to get Celebrity to pay for their loss, but in the end, I think that they received only $300 per bag. Not much, but better than what HAL is offering.

 

That being said, don't lose sight of the fact that compensation for lost baggage by commercial carriers is governed by international treaties that set out the amount that can be paid out. For example, the Warsaw Convention places a limit on liability with respect to baggage loss or damage on international flights. As a result, while Delta Airlines (picked at random) will pay up to $3400 per passenger for lost or damaged baggage on domestic flights, they are limited to paying $9.07 per lb. up to a maximum of $640 per bag (USD) for flights governed by the Warsaw Convention.

 

For cruise lines, the Athens Convention applies similar limitations, but with far less generous compensation. The governing requirements when submitting a claim, including the need for an itemized list, are laid out in the Convention, so don't be too critical of HAL.

 

For years, my wife and I have travelled without supplementary insurance, but last year decided it was a bit foolish. Having had to abandon a 2 week cruise in March due to a medical issue, we are fortunate that we did, as without it we would have been over $5,000 out of pocket!

 

[Darcy15]

Sound advice, you only have to watch a carousel at an airport to see the numbers of people who have trouble identifying the right bag.

 

 

Oh so true :rolleyes:

 

Not cruise related, but a few years ago I did a coach tour in the US.

 

A chap on the coach had picked up the wrong bag at the airport. The case he picked up had all manner of tape, tags, ribbons and pompons on it - when I spoke to him one day I was curious how he had managed to make a mistake given the uniqueness of the bag he had picked up

 

.....he looked at me, and in all honesty said to me that he had been a bit surprised but thought that 'maybe the airline had added all that stuff'!! :eek:

 

As they say, you can't treat stupid :D

[PathfinderEss]

I think you are very brave to keep cruising when such terrible things have happened to you on two different cruise lines. I hope you have had some wonderful cruises to make up for these.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

What a great point, I think if I had all these terrible things happen to me on a cruise, I would quite cruising, seriously. Out of 50 some cruise, I have never had anything stolen, lost any luggage, or anything else.

[LindaM]

Has the OP answered the question as to the type of luggage? I think this information will help us know why her luggage may have been targeted. Inquiring minds want to know!

[DaveOKC]

My sympathies to you and your mother.

 

I know another poster addressed your room card issue, but I wished to share my experience with other CC members. I repeatedly demagnetized my room card last November on our Holy Land cruise aboard the Rotterdam. A wonderful front desk person suggested that it was due to my cell phone. I always wear my room card on a lanyard around my neck. Sure enough - my cell phone was hung from a different lanyard around my neck everytime we went ashore! I had no more problems once I put my room card in a pocket.

 

This was something that never occurred to me which I learned about the hard way. Hopefully, this post will spare someone the problems which I, unknowingly, inflicted upon myself.

 

My wife had a similar issue with her room key and her purse, which had a magnet clasp. It kept wiping out the key.

 

DaveOKC

[Fouremco]

My wife had a similar issue with her room key and her purse, which had a magnet clasp. It kept wiping out the key.

 

DaveOKC

DW too had card problems a few times until she realized that the magnetic closure on her new iPad was the culprit.

[debijaynes]

I can certainly tell the difference between a passenger sailing on what is often referred to as the 'geriatric line' and a crew member in uniform. The uniformed stewards on the ship were on average 40-50 years younger than the average Prinsendam passenger. The ship was not attacked and over run with pirates on the last night of the cruise!!! I clearly gave my bags to HAL employees not random strangers!

 

 

Oh dear--does this mean that on our Prisendam cruise the staff are in their teenage years?

 

This has to one of the most entertaining threads in recent memory. I won't repeat what all of you good people have pointed out--but now I know why I always buy insurance when we pay the final payment. I have insurance on everything---house, jewelry, cars and horses. JUST IN CASE.

 

I did laugh at catching a cold from AC--my Momma always said that. Seems as though the old wives tale just keeps on going.

 

Perhaps the OP needs a trip to Vegas to cut her losses?

 

Debi

[kazu]

What a great point, I think if I had all these terrible things happen to me on a cruise, I would quite cruising, seriously. Out of 50 some cruise, I have never had anything stolen, lost any luggage, or anything else.

 

I have lost two things on a HAL cruise. The first one was not my fault and while the monetary value was not that high, the sentimental attachment DH had for it was, 4 weeks later HAL called me and had me identify it and shipped it free of charge (I did a thread at the time ).

 

The other item was more valuable but my fault, and I am sure it was a passenger. HAL staff reminded me when it wasn't turning up that I needed a claim form and completed the bulk of it for me. My insurance replaced the item thankfully.

 

So yes, stuff can go missing, but it hasn't stopped us from cruising.

 

One piece of luggage went missing on a recent flight and we weren't budging until it was tracked down.

 

We are still cruising, BUT had we been in the OP's shoes, we would not have left until we got to the bottom of it and simply paid the fair share for the private transfer. It's much easier to accomplish things when you are face to face IMO

 

We don't book tight flights in Europe so, we would have the time.

[serendipity1499]

There was a very similar thread started last September on the Celebrity pages when Mel& Ken from Windsor Ontario lost their bags and were offered $100 in compensation. The thread ( http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1917602&highlight=lost+luggage) exceeded 300 posts, including a running account of the attempts to get Celebrity to pay for their loss, but in the end, I think that they received only $300 per bag. Not much, but better than what HAL is offering.

 

That being said, don't lose sight of the fact that compensation for lost baggage by commercial carriers is governed by international treaties that set out the amount that can be paid out. For example, the Warsaw Convention places a limit on liability with respect to baggage loss or damage on international flights. As a result, while Delta Airlines (picked at random) will pay up to $3400 per passenger for lost or damaged baggage on domestic flights, they are limited to paying $9.07 per lb. up to a maximum of $640 per bag (USD) for flights governed by the Warsaw Convention.

 

For cruise lines, the Athens Convention applies similar limitations, but with far less generous compensation. The governing requirements when submitting a claim, including the need for an itemized list, are laid out in the Convention, so don't be too critical of HAL.

 

For years, my wife and I have travelled without supplementary insurance, but last year decided it was a bit foolish. Having had to abandon a 2 week cruise in March due to a medical issue, we are fortunate that we did, as without it we would have been over $5,000 out of pocket!

 

 

Thanks for posting this info.. I've been wracking my brain trying to find out what Cruise lines are limited to..

 

According to the 2002 protocol in the Athens convention " liability of the carrier for the loss of or damage to cabin luggage is limited to 2,250 SDR per passenger, per carriage."

 

Now I'm totally confused about The SDR :confused:

Todays rate for the SDR is 0.64663 to the USD..

 

I multiplied 2250 SDR by 0.64663 to get the USD & that equals $1454.918..

 

Moving the decimal point over 5 places gives me a USD amount of $145.49

 

Do you think one Psgr would be paid for his lost cabin baggage at todays rate? And is it $145.49 or does HAL's formal notice of $100 & Celebrity's formal notice of $300 override the Athens convention?

 

You math majors & attorney's out there should be able to tell me, if I've calculated it correctly?

 

Let this be a lesson to all of us about getting enough insurance to cover our personal items when we travel..One thing I don't do is take very expensive clothing when I cruise as always am afraid of losing it.. We always carry our jewelry, cameras phones etc. in our hand luggage & it all goes into our safe or locked in a drawer immediately..We still use travelers checks & cash them at the front office. but understand some banks will no longer sell them..

 

As you have guessed, all I'm doing today is playing on my PC.. :)What a waste of a beautiful day.. Guess I'll go feed the dog & get DH a drink & hors d'oeuvre..:)

Edited July 8, 2014 by serendipity1499

[sunsetbeachgal]

I agree 100% with Kazu...I would absolutely not have left the terminal building and ship area until I spoke to the supervisor or officer responsible for luggage distribution on the ship and followed up on every lead possible..and if that cost me 50€ more for a taxi then so be it...much less than what you are looking at as a loss now...as they say, out of sight, out of mind...

Edited July 8, 2014 by sunsetbeachgal

[Stratheden]

I think you broke the process by taking the bags to the elevator lobby and you will find that your bags are still on the ship.

 

I hope so for your sake.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Stratheden
Spelling

[donaldsc]

Oh so true :rolleyes:

 

Not cruise related, but a few years ago I did a coach tour in the US.

 

A chap on the coach had picked up the wrong bag at the airport. The case he picked up had all manner of tape, tags, ribbons and pompons on it - when I spoke to him one day I was curious how he had managed to make a mistake given the uniqueness of the bag he had picked up

 

.....he looked at me, and in all honesty said to me that he had been a bit surprised but thought that 'maybe the airline had added all that stuff'!! :eek:

 

As they say, you can't treat stupid :D

 

I did that once and I have a fairly unique suitcase. I picked up my suitcase at Fairbanks Airport and when I got to my motel room, it was not mine. I would have called the owner but there was absolutely no identification on or in the suitcase.

 

I brought the suitcase back to the airport the next day, the owner of the suitcase that I pick up brought mine back, and things got sorted ut.

 

I am not sure who initially took the incorrect suitcase but I will certainly be more careful next time. I also never told my wife what happened - LOL.

 

DON

[Linda&Vern]

I have to agree with a couple of posters who pointed out they would not have left the terminal without the luggage situation resolved. I know I would not have, especially in a country so far away from where I lived. I would have insisted the head of "the something or other department" explain to me exactly what was being done inside the ship to find my misplaced luggage. Knowing me I would have charged ahead and tried to reenter the ship to search for myself. I would have had a hissy fit ... :rolleyes: or maybe not.

 

To the OP - Will your homeowners policy cover this loss? I do not know how that works.

 

Another story: Many, many years ago my DH was on a week long business trip. He returned from the airport and put his gray two-suiter name brand piece of luggage on our bed. Later I went in to unpack for him. The black dress socks, the white jockey's, everything seemed normal. Then I unpacked a couple of dress shirts in colors I didn't remember him having - assumed he went shopping for whatever reason. THEN the photo frame appeared. Big, 8x10 photo, of a lovely looking girl who was NOT me. DH swore he knew nothing about the framed photo. And slowly we realized this was not his suitcase. When asked why he thought it was his, he relied "I put my key in and it unlocked it." Lesson learned about luggage keys! (All ended well. When we called the lost luggage department at the airport the person with the swapped luggage was standing there with his sad story. Luggage was exchanged the next morning.)

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...I wasn't at all. I was just interested if at the point you handed your 2 bags to a steward there was other luggage around the lobby that your bags were added to or if your bags were alone and separate from other luggage. If both your bags ever got mixed with all the other luggage it just isn't possible that only your 2 bags went missing but no others.

 

Assuming for the moment that all staff were honest in this matter, I am wondering if having stewards take your bags separately, and not leaving them at your cabin door was the problem here? Perhaps they stashed them in an unusual spot just to get them out of the way for a while, planning to toss them in with the rest once routine bag pickup began later? Then they forgot about it.

 

Just a thought.

[LMaxwell]

Occam's razor suggests the baggage made it off the ship and someone else took it either purposely or by mistake. There's no proof HAL did anything wrong.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Has the OP answered the question as to the type of luggage? I think this information will help us know why her luggage may have been targeted. Inquiring minds want to know!

 

Good point. I used to know someone with expensive tastes who traveled extensively. She only used her high-end luggage as carry-ons that were never out of her sight. She had cheap but sturdy luggage to use as her checked baggage.

[serendipity1499]

Good point. I used to know someone with expensive tastes who traveled extensively. She only used her high-end luggage as carry-ons that were never out of her sight. She had cheap but sturdy luggage to use as her checked baggage.

 

A long time Cruise Critic Poster who sadly is no longer with us, had one of their bags with all their formal clothes stolen off a United Carousel in 2007..Believe It was expensive luggage..Forgot which airport it was..

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=636893&highlight=stolen+luggage

 

Check out posts 38, 44 & 48 & read the very bizarre story on post 49 of lost luggage in Italy..

[Sam.Seattle]

I was victim of a home robbery while on a cruise.

 

The only information you will find in my luggage is a note that says, if found please call me with my first name and cell phone number.

 

The honest man will call me. The thief will do what he wants, but at least he won't have my last name and address.