HAL Lousy Wine List

[POA1]

Our take on Celebrity is that their wine list is the best (by far) of all the mass market cruise lines (we have cruised on 14 different lines). This does not compare to good land-based restaurant wine lists, but at least Celebrity does make an attempt to satisfy wine lovers. Whoever HAL pays to compile their wine list should be sent away to a decent Sommelier school :). HAL could easily improve their wine offerings and still make a decent profit on sales.

 

The Celebrity pro-attitude on wine even extends to its wine tastings. They offer the usual (on most lines) free basic wine tasting to their Platinum and Elites, and there is usually a huge turn-out for the relatively ordinary wine offerings. But they also have a fantastic Premium Wine Tasting event that costs about $20-$25 and is an amazing event. They usually have about 12-16 wines, some of which are quite decent. They scatter the wines around multiple pouring stations and the participants get about an hour to sample as much as they please of each wine. Its a lot of fun, the wines are usually quite interesting, and its well attended. As I recall, the HAL premium tasting is more expensive and only offers small tastings of very few wines. On our last HAL cruise we looked at the Premium Tasting wines, and quickly made a decision that it was not worth the price of the event.

 

Hank

Thanks Hank. That's good to know. I haven't had any luck finding the 100+ wines by the glass list from X. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong places.

 

FWIW, the Veuve Clicqout and Nicholas Feuillatte markups are 2x retail or less. It's very schizophrenic. Normally you get raked over the coals on Champagne.

[Hlitner]

Thanks Hank. That's good to know. I haven't had any luck finding the 100+ wines by the glass list from X. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong places.

 

FWIW, the Veuve Clicqout and Nicholas Feuillatte markups are 2x retail or less. It's very schizophrenic. Normally you get raked over the coals on Champagne.

 

You will never find me saying they have 100+ wines by the glass (somebody else posted that). In the dining room it is actually a lot less then 100 and probably no more then 25. But Celebrity also had a pretty neat Wine tasting room, on their Solstice Class ships which had many automatic wine dispensers. In that room, when you purchased a wine card, you could choose from a very large selection of wine in various sizes (I think 2, 4, and 6 oz). But apparently this has not worked out well for Celebrity and its reported that they are eliminating those wine dispensers (we cannot personally confirm this has happened).

[Sam.Seattle]

The issue I have with BruceMuzz's posts is that -- while he often provides some good info and insider views -- he lets his obvious disdain for all passengers to color his "facts," which often verge on hyperbole.

 

A cup of Starbucks coffee costs just cents? Sure -- read here:

 

http://consumeronomics.anoj.net/2013/09/caffeinonomics-1-pricing-cup-of.html

 

Starbucks actually has about an 18% markup, all things considered. If HAL would mark up their wine only by 18%, even their extremely mediocre selections might taste a little better.

Starbucks on an average makes roughly 18-22% pre-tax margin on each cup of coffee sold in Americas and Asia.

 

>>>>> Margin, not "mark-up"<<<<<

[cruisemom42]

Starbucks on an average makes roughly 18-22% pre-tax margin on each cup of coffee sold in Americas and Asia.

 

>>>>> Margin, not "mark-up"<<<<<

 

Okay -- I'm not an economist. :o

 

Still, the Starbucks cup of coffee isn't just "pennies per cup" which is BruceMuzz's assertion.

Edited July 17, 2014 by cruisemom42

[Wakepatrol]

Okay -- I'm not an economist. :o

 

Still, the Starbucks cup of coffee isn't just "pennies per cup" which is BruceMuzz's assertion.

 

What about the movie theaters? Are they barely getting by charging you $9 for popcorn $ 6 for a soda and $5 for a box of raisinets?

[Hlitner]

Although we do enjoy Bruce's posts, we think he misses the point when it comes to wine. For wine lovers, wine is similar to food, not booze. In most cases it is something to be enjoyed with a meal, just like a good cup of coffee (hard to find on a cruise ship). Wine represents a profit center for ships, and since most is sold in the dining venues it really does not compete (in a major way) with bar drinks (a majority which are sold in bars). IMHO, HAL does a terrible job promoting bar drinks other then their daily Happy Hours (2nd drink for $1). And even those Happy Hours are so limiting as to work against HAL.

 

CCL is a huge corporation which seems to be slowly learning the value of group buying. When you buy that much booze the clout makes it possible to negotiate good deals. "Shrinkage" on ships should be much easier to control then in most land based venues. We do understand that storage space is at a premium on ships, but that is simply a fact of life. HAL needs to increase their wine selection in a major way. As an example, we recall being on a long HAL cruise (Prinsendam) and looking for a Malbec with no luck. While the ship normally carried 1 or 2 Malbec's, less then half way through a 62 day cruise they had none! There should always be a choice of at least 4--6 Malbecs of varying quality (and price). And then there is the love affair that HAL (and other cruise lines) seem to have with the Robert Mondavi folks where a disproportionate number of the wine offerings are from this company (they own wine labels in the US, South America and Europe).

 

My advice to HAL is that they simply hire a world-class wine consultant to revamp their wine lists from top to bottom. And this would especially include the wines in their Neptune and Admiral packages which are popular with 3+ Mariners (because of the discounts). It is possible to make these packages much more inviting without increasing purchase costs. They should also consider having additional Navigator and Admiral options such as offering some type of discount on the higher-end items. For example, If I want to purchase a higher end bottle of wine with the Admiral package they could have some options with an add-on price. This would help HAL increase sales of their more expensive offerings (which carry a higher per bottle profit margin).

 

Hank

Edited July 17, 2014 by Hlitner

[POA1]

I miss the old wine pre-order desk. You used to get a 15% discount for ordering your wine in the afternoon, around lunchtime. By noon you knew what the dinner menu was so you could pair. Pre-ordering also meant that you could take your time. Most importantly, your selections were at your table when you arrived at your table, allowing you to get down to business. ;) Once they discontinued the pre-orders, we switched over to carry-on + corkage if it works for us from the embarkation port.

 

The fact of the matter is that we can always find a wine we like at a price we can accept. If we can't, we don't drink wine. (This pretty much never happens. Ever.)

Edited July 17, 2014 by POA1

[Surreyman]

I totally agree with the comments on the poor selection and price of wines BUT I am primarily a beer drinker. The beer selection, in general, is DISGUSTING. Only rarely can I find a stout or porter on board. I was fortunate to sail with Saurabh Vaishampayan as beverage manager on a cruise and he found me some Guinness Foreign Extra... I treated myself to one each night in the MDR. On our last cruise I managed to special order a whole case of the same. If you look at the beer list it is pure garbage. Not a single black beer to be found but there are lots of pales and lights. I have sent messages after each of the last five cruises bitching about it but no response.

 

Thanks for letting me vent about beer in a wine thread.

 

Last time sailed with HAL they had Guinness in bottles, but the people I saw drinking it out of the bottle instead of a glass must have been new to it.

 

HAL have a better selection than say Thomson who only had cans, no bottles.

[eandj]

What about the movie theaters? Are they barely getting by charging you $9 for popcorn $ 6 for a soda and $5 for a box of raisinets?

 

 

But in general all movie theaters, starbucks, etc charge the same for thier products. We know it. We pay it. But I certainly wouldn't go to a theater that is charging double than anyone else in the town for the exact same thing.

 

So not only offereing the fewest choices... What HAL does with wine at least, is charge WAY over any other cruise line for the same bottle of wine. That's what gets me. If Celebrity asks $28 for the same bottle of HAL's $42 wine ...what's with Hal? :rolleyes:

Edited July 17, 2014 by eandj

[jaguarstyper]

Okay -- I'm not an economist. :o

 

Still, the Starbucks cup of coffee isn't just "pennies per cup" which is BruceMuzz's assertion.

Well that actual cost of the water, milk, flavorings and the coffee beans required to make a single cup may be just pennies. In fact, the actual cup probably cost more than the ingredients. However, there are a myriad of costs that need to be factored in to the actual cost of producing a single cup of coffee. People who use the old chestnut that something costs pennies to produce always seem to conveniently ignore all the other costs over and above the ingredients.

[Christine Frances]

I totally agree with the comments on the poor selection and price of wines BUT I am primarily a beer drinker. The beer selection, in general, is DISGUSTING. Only rarely can I find a stout or porter on board. I was fortunate to sail with Saurabh Vaishampayan as beverage manager on a cruise and he found me some Guinness Foreign Extra... I treated myself to one each night in the MDR. On our last cruise I managed to special order a whole case of the same. If you look at the beer list it is pure garbage. Not a single black beer to be found but there are lots of pales and lights. I have sent messages after each of the last five cruises bitching about it but no response.

 

Thanks for letting me vent about beer in a wine thread.

 

This is X's new GastroBar menu. I find it is pretty good for this Canadian Beer drinker that loves craft beers.:)

 

http://media.celebritycruises.com/celebrity/content/en_US/pdf/gastrobar-menu.pdf

[Wakepatrol]

But in general all movie theaters, starbucks, etc charge the same for thier products. We know it. We pay it. But I certainly wouldn't go to a theater that is charging double than anyone else in the town for the exact same thing.

 

So not only offereing the fewest choices... What HAL does with wine at least, is charge WAY over any other cruise line for the same bottle of wine. That's what gets me. If Celebrity asks $28 for the same bottle of HAL's $42 wine ...what's with Hal? :rolleyes:

 

Go to any sporting event, a beer is $10 and they're lining up to buy them. :confused:

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Although we do enjoy Bruce's posts, we think he misses the point when it comes to wine. For wine lovers, wine is similar to food, not booze. In most cases it is something to be enjoyed with a meal, just like a good cup of coffee (hard to find on a cruise ship). Wine represents a profit center for ships, and since most is sold in the dining venues it really does not compete (in a major way) with bar drinks (a majority which are sold in bars)....

 

I agree. He implys that if wine weren't onboard pax would drink whisky instead. They are apples and oranges. They are still making money off wine, just not as much as off hard liquor. If HAL stopped selling wine altogether (BYO corkage fees aside), profit margins would go up, but TOTAL revenue and profits would go down. It sounds as though corporate may have a flawed incentive system for beverage managers.

[jaguarstyper]

Coincidentally, I worked on a project last summer to put together an ROI and a business plan for a "wine bar" here in Pittsburgh. We determined it could be quite profitable and the bar is now in the final planning stage. The start up cost are considerably less than a traditional bar, mostly due to licensing and permits. Permits and licenses to sell liquor can be hundreds of thousands of dollars and can require a year or more of jumping through flaming bureaucratic hoops. The licensing of the wine bar was less than $10,000 and only took 90 days. The ongoing audit requirements are also much less stringent.

 

Based on our ROI, the business owners should be able to expect between a 14 and 22% margin, all costs considered. Now, I would grant you that the logistics a cruise line faces are a lot more complex than any land base endeavor, but I have trouble believing HAL is losing money on the sale of wine. If they are, they are doing something wrong, IMO.

[POA1]

Where's the soda outrage? A 32 can case is just under $10 at Sam's Club. (I'm assuming that a cruise line can get at least as good a price.) It's $1.95 on the ship. That's thirty-two cents a can. That's a 6x+ markup over retail. Storm the castle!

Edited July 17, 2014 by POA1

[Wakepatrol]

Where's the soda outrage? A 32 can case is just under $10 at Sam's Club. (I'm assuming that a cruise line can get at least as good a price.) It's $1.95 on the ship. That's thirty-two cents a can. That's a 6x+ markup over retail. Storm the castle!

 

 

No worries..I'm sure that's on the horizon,along with water. There's a lot of money to be made selling beverages just ask any stadium owner.

[jaguarstyper]

Where's the soda outrage? A 32 can case is just under $10 at Sam's Club. (I'm assuming that a cruise line can get at least as good a price.) It's $1.95 on the ship. That's thirty-two cents a can. That's a 6x+ markup over retail. Storm the castle!

In the quantities HAL is buying soda, I would guess they are getting it for around 5 to 10 cents per can. Prices get pretty low when you by soda in boxcar quantities. I can assure you Sam's club is making a significant margin selling it for 32 cents per can. Imagine the margin when selling it for $2 per can. Even with their intricate logistics.

[iancal]

No question, HAL does have a substandard wine list.

 

But that is not one of the parameters that we consider when it comes down to selecting a cruise, or deciding between three different ships/cruise lines on a particular itinerary.

[DaveOKC]

In the quantities HAL is buying soda, I would guess they are getting it for around 5 to 10 cents per can. Prices get pretty low when you by soda in boxcar quantities. I can assure you Sam's club is making a significant margin selling it for 32 cents per can. Imagine the margin when selling it for $2 per can. Even with their intricate logistics.

 

I think the current cost of a name brand soda is closer to 15 to 20 cents a can.

 

DaveOKC

[POA1]

I think the current cost of a name brand soda is closer to 15 to 20 cents a can.

 

DaveOKC

Yes. Even in bulk. [emoji106]

[jaguarstyper]

I think the current cost of a name brand soda is closer to 15 to 20 cents a can.

 

DaveOKC

You may be right, its been a while, but I used to do consulting work for a major grocery chain and they were paying 9 cents for Coke products and 6 cents for Pepsi products. And I am talking millions of units per year. But, that was 7 years ago. Canned sodas have become somewhat of a dinosaur in retail these days.

 

Even at 20 cents per unit, HAL is making a tremendous margin on canned soda.

Edited July 18, 2014 by jaguarstyper

[ghstudio]

I've just booked our first HA cruise (we have been cruising Celebrity almost exclusively). What is Holland America's policy on bringing wine onboard....celebrity allows two 750ml bottles and those only at debarkation.

Edited July 18, 2014 by ghstudio

[jaguarstyper]

I've just booked our first HA cruise (we have been cruising Celebrity almost exclusively). What is Holland America's policy on bringing wine onboard....celebrity allows two 750ml bottles and those only at debarkation.

Each person can bring as much as they can carry onboard, not allowed in checked baggage. You will be required to pay an $18 corkage charge per bottle. The first bottle for each person is excluded from the corkage charges. If you choose to drink the bottle not charged in a public space, you will be charged the $18 (maybe, seems hit or miss).

 

Same policy at ports along the cruise.

Edited July 18, 2014 by jaguarstyper

[cruisemom42]

Where's the soda outrage? A 32 can case is just under $10 at Sam's Club. (I'm assuming that a cruise line can get at least as good a price.) It's $1.95 on the ship. That's thirty-two cents a can. That's a 6x+ markup over retail. Storm the castle!

 

True, but at least as of now there is no problem bringing on as much of your preferred soda as you want, with no corkage (flip-toppage?) fee.

 

The same isn't true for wine.

[Jade13]

This topic has often be discussed here on CC. Many wine lovers (Oenophiles) have long been disappointed in the HAL wine list (and prices) and some of us have posted that HAL lags far behind some other lines...especially Celebrity, when it comes to wine. Of course the usual HAL Cheerleaders deny this and say everything is perfect on HAL.

 

Well, the Wine Spectator, which is generally accepted as one of the best wine publications, has spoken and its interesting. Here is a copy of another CC Post on the topic:

 

"The 2014 Wine Spectator Restaurant Awards were published in the August magazine. Of the 12 ships given an "Award of Excellence." Celebrity Ships main restaurants won an 10.

 

 

We would add that revamping HAL's wine list is a relatively simple process, but for some reason HAL has continued to ignore the winers (or whiners) on this subject.

 

 

Hank

 

I don't get it. They are way behind Celebrity on the wine selection. And, it is something they can sell for additional income.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Jade13