HAL Lousy Wine List

[Hlitner]

This topic has often be discussed here on CC. Many wine lovers (Oenophiles) have long been disappointed in the HAL wine list (and prices) and some of us have posted that HAL lags far behind some other lines...especially Celebrity, when it comes to wine. Of course the usual HAL Cheerleaders deny this and say everything is perfect on HAL.

 

Well, the Wine Spectator, which is generally accepted as one of the best wine publications, has spoken and its interesting. Here is a copy of another CC Post on the topic:

 

"The 2014 Wine Spectator Restaurant Awards were published in the August magazine. Of the 12 ships given an "Award of Excellence." Celebrity Ships main restaurants won an 10. According to the magazine "Our basic award for lists that offer a well-chosen selection of quality producers along with thematic match in both price and style." There were only 2,791 of the awards to restaurants world wide. The winning ships are the Summit, the Solstice, the Century, the Silhouette, the Millennium, the Eclipse, the Reflection, the Constellation, the Equinox and the Infinity.

 

The other 2 awards went to Oceania. "

 

We would add that revamping HAL's wine list is a relatively simple process, but for some reason HAL has continued to ignore the winers (or whiners) on this subject. But now that HAL has imposed their draconian wine restrictions (which make it expensive to bring aboard wine) there is even more reason for them to improve their onboard wine offerings.

 

Hank

[corkpopr]

I couldn't agree more. We are on HAL for the first time in years this November. Coming from Los Angeles I cannot bring 6 bottles because of the weight and possible ruining bottles from my collection on the way. I was in a restaurant in Pasadena last week with my doctor and we went to a French/Japanese bistro. They only had a 28 bottle list (not expensive) well thought out. A simple problem for HAL to solve but alas.

 

No merlot, no white zin EVER!

[VioletHorse]

My first Celebrity cruise was on the Summit a couple of years ago, and I was stunned when I saw their wine list. The depth of their wine offerings was amazing, and their house pour was actually drinkable.

 

On my recent cruise on the Volendam, I stuck to cocktails and an occasional Alaska Amber. No wine for me.

 

I agree that HAL really needs to do something about improving their wine list.

[sunsetbeachgal]

The wines in the wine packages on the Eurodam last November were pretty much all ones I usually see sold in high volume at Costco in the $8 or so range...

Edited July 16, 2014 by sunsetbeachgal

[Viesczy]

The wines in the wine packages on the Eurodam last November were pretty much all ones I usually see sold in high volume at Costco in the $8 or so range...

 

That's where HAL gets their wine, then they sell it on board for $68+ a bottle.

 

Why?

 

Executives NEED their ivory back scratchers for this quarter!

 

Derek

[KirkNC]

My first Celebrity cruise was on the Summit a couple of years ago, and I was stunned when I saw their wine list. The depth of their wine offerings was amazing, and their house pour was actually drinkable.

 

On my recent cruise on the Volendam, I stuck to cocktails and an occasional Alaska Amber. No wine for me.

 

I agree that HAL really needs to do something about improving their wine list.

 

Same with us. We cruised on Infinity last Feb and were amazed and over joyed at the extensive selection of wines, many available by the glass. I really don't understand why HAL doesn't step up here. They would make more money as the wines would be drinkable.

[KirkNC]

This topic has often be discussed here on CC. Many wine lovers (Oenophiles) have long been disappointed in the HAL wine list (and prices) and some of us have posted that HAL lags far behind some other lines...especially Celebrity, when it comes to wine. Of course the usual HAL Cheerleaders deny this and say everything is perfect on HAL.

 

Well, the Wine Spectator, which is generally accepted as one of the best wine publications, has spoken and its interesting. Here is a copy of another CC Post on the topic:

 

"The 2014 Wine Spectator Restaurant Awards were published in the August magazine. Of the 12 ships given an "Award of Excellence." Celebrity Ships main restaurants won an 10. According to the magazine "Our basic award for lists that offer a well-chosen selection of quality producers along with thematic match in both price and style." There were only 2,791 of the awards to restaurants world wide. The winning ships are the Summit, the Solstice, the Century, the Silhouette, the Millennium, the Eclipse, the Reflection, the Constellation, the Equinox and the Infinity.

 

The other 2 awards went to Oceania. "

 

We would add that revamping HAL's wine list is a relatively simple process, but for some reason HAL has continued to ignore the winers (or whiners) on this subject. But now that HAL has imposed their draconian wine restrictions (which make it expensive to bring aboard wine) there is even more reason for them to improve their onboard wine offerings.

 

Hank

 

Thanks Hank, this is singing my tune. One thing I would add is that X's premier version of their beverage package cost around $50/day but can be used on wines by the glass up to $13 per glass. They have over 100 wines by the glass and many very nice ones that fall under the beverage card max.

[visagrunt]

Amen!

[eandj]

A big downer for us. DH isn't a big wine drinker and even HE thinks the list of wine choices is pathetic. I think not only amateurish choices but the 400% profit on a 9-10$ bottle of wine found at any CVS is criminal. :rolleyes:

 

I don't like or want to LUG wine onboard. As frequent Celebrity cruisers, we are happy to pay for a glass/bottle of preferred wine that is priced close to some of our nice restaurants in town. NO ONE here ( store, restaurant, hotel) charges $42 for a bottle of Beringer White Zin. :eek: Who the h is buying and pricing the wine for HAL???

 

They must want us to drink hard liquor. Now THAT is priced realistically. :rolleyes:

 

So come Sept. we'll carry on 3 or 4 bottles from France. And pick up a few in Spain. If we can avoid the corkage, great. If not, we'll have to pay it and find something POSITIVE about HAL.

Edited July 16, 2014 by eandj

[ajcruiser]

This topic has often be discussed here on CC. Many wine lovers (Oenophiles) have long been disappointed in the HAL wine list (and prices) and some of us have posted that HAL lags far behind some other lines...especially Celebrity, when it comes to wine. Of course the usual HAL Cheerleaders deny this and say everything is perfect on HAL.

 

Well, the Wine Spectator, which is generally accepted as one of the best wine publications, has spoken and its interesting. Here is a copy of another CC Post on the topic:

 

"The 2014 Wine Spectator Restaurant Awards were published in the August magazine. Of the 12 ships given an "Award of Excellence." Celebrity Ships main restaurants won an 10. According to the magazine "Our basic award for lists that offer a well-chosen selection of quality producers along with thematic match in both price and style." There were only 2,791 of the awards to restaurants world wide. The winning ships are the Summit, the Solstice, the Century, the Silhouette, the Millennium, the Eclipse, the Reflection, the Constellation, the Equinox and the Infinity.

 

The other 2 awards went to Oceania. "

 

We would add that revamping HAL's wine list is a relatively simple process, but for some reason HAL has continued to ignore the winers (or whiners) on this subject. But now that HAL has imposed their draconian wine restrictions (which make it expensive to bring aboard wine) there is even more reason for them to improve their onboard wine offerings.

 

Hank

 

I echo the emotions and disappointment which have been voiced so far. Agree about the pathetic miserly offerings of HAL compared to other ships.

 

Agree about the quality of the Wine Spectator. Only want to add that the Wine Spectator does not go out and blindly visit restaurants and cruise ships. The restaurants and cruise lines must apply for the Wine Spectator awards and pay for consideration. I'm not saying that HAL would win....but maybe they did not apply. I think if they had applied and submitted the Pinnacle wine list they might have gotten consideration.

 

I do agree with the point you and the other cc'ers are making, 100%.

[SeaBands]

We will be sailing from Seattle and will buy 6-8 bottles there and pay the corkage as we have in the past so we can get good quality wine at a reasonable price. Adding $18 still makes it a steal compared the HAL's pricing.

[rkacruiser]

I agree that their wine list could be improved. There are some good choices on the list, but the pricing is ridiculous. Celebrity, with its Cellar Masters venue and the Reidel Glass Workshop, shows that they are serious about the wines that their guests are offered. I think they view their tastings and workshops as an important part of the ship's activity program. HAL, with its usual two tastings per cruise, does not have the same emphasis.

 

I also saw in Wine Spectator the listing of the Celebrity vessels. I did not know that those establishments listed had to pay for the "honor". I did know that they had to apply to be so recognized.

[navybankerteacher]

HAL' list is unimpressive and their markups outrageous. A reasonable $40 -$50 bottle which would run $100+ on HAL is still a bargain with the $18 add-on.

 

Only problem is the hassle of toting - and finding a supplier close to,the port.

[POA1]

This in response to the Wine Spectator restaurant awards. First, I subscribe to WS and have for a decades. I value the reviews and the tasting results. It's a whole different story for the restaurant awards. Here are two articles to illustrate the problem:

 

http://www.vinography.com/archives/2008/08/wine_spectator_restaurant_awar.html

 

http://blindtaste.com/2008/08/15/what-does-it-take-to-get-a-wine-spectator-award-of-excellence/

 

Again, love the magazine. The restaurant awards, not so much. I'm not defending the HAL wine list. It's not good. I'm not saying that Celebrity's list isn't good. If they have 100+ wines by the glass, that's really impressive on its own.

[Hlitner]

This in response to the Wine Spectator restaurant awards. First, I subscribe to WS and have for a decades. I value the reviews and the tasting results. It's a whole different story for the restaurant awards. Here are two articles to illustrate the problem:

 

http://www.vinography.com/archives/2008/08/wine_spectator_restaurant_awar.html

 

http://blindtaste.com/2008/08/15/what-does-it-take-to-get-a-wine-spectator-award-of-excellence/

 

Again, love the magazine. The restaurant awards, not so much. I'm not defending the HAL wine list. It's not good. I'm not saying that Celebrity's list isn't good. If they have 100+ wines by the glass, that's really impressive on its own.

 

Our take on Celebrity is that their wine list is the best (by far) of all the mass market cruise lines (we have cruised on 14 different lines). This does not compare to good land-based restaurant wine lists, but at least Celebrity does make an attempt to satisfy wine lovers. Whoever HAL pays to compile their wine list should be sent away to a decent Sommelier school :). HAL could easily improve their wine offerings and still make a decent profit on sales.

 

The Celebrity pro-attitude on wine even extends to its wine tastings. They offer the usual (on most lines) free basic wine tasting to their Platinum and Elites, and there is usually a huge turn-out for the relatively ordinary wine offerings. But they also have a fantastic Premium Wine Tasting event that costs about $20-$25 and is an amazing event. They usually have about 12-16 wines, some of which are quite decent. They scatter the wines around multiple pouring stations and the participants get about an hour to sample as much as they please of each wine. Its a lot of fun, the wines are usually quite interesting, and its well attended. As I recall, the HAL premium tasting is more expensive and only offers small tastings of very few wines. On our last HAL cruise we looked at the Premium Tasting wines, and quickly made a decision that it was not worth the price of the event.

 

Hank

Edited July 16, 2014 by Hlitner

[Typhoon1]

None of the cruise lines seem to have the greatest selection or quality of wines. Apparently, it's not a very good revenue source.

[kazu]

None of the cruise lines seem to have the greatest selection or quality of wines. Apparently, it's not a very good revenue source.

 

Check out Oceania . Not too shabby at all :)

[Wakepatrol]

A big downer for us. DH isn't a big wine drinker and even HE thinks the list of wine choices is pathetic. I think not only amateurish choices but the 400% profit on a 9-10$ bottle of wine found at any CVS is criminal. :rolleyes:

 

I don't like or want to LUG wine onboard. As frequent Celebrity cruisers, we are happy to pay for a glass/bottle of preferred wine that is priced close to some of our nice restaurants in town. NO ONE here ( store, restaurant, hotel) charges $42 for a bottle of Beringer White Zin. :eek: Who the h is buying and pricing the wine for HAL???

 

They must want us to drink hard liquor. Now THAT is priced realistically. :rolleyes:

 

 

Could be- This was a post from Brucemuzz awhile back who works on cruise ships

 

Originally Posted by BruceMuzz

Many cruisers are rather limited in their cruising experiences and even more limited in their understanding of cruise industry finances.

It is very easy to say," Reduce the selling price by 50% and you will sell twice as many and make far more money".

Anyone with basic math skills can demonstrate why that doesn't work.

If it did work, you can bet that General Motors, Coca-Cola, and McDonalds would have started doing it many years ago.

 

McDonalds sells you a quart of Coca-Cola, badly made from syrup, in a paper cup half filled with ice, that costs them just a few pennies to make. You pay more than a dollar for it. That's quite a substantial mark-up. One might even claim it is downright theft. Is anyone complaining?

 

Starbucks makes you stand in line - twice - to get a paper cup of coffee that costs just a few pennies to produce. You are quite happily paying $32.00 per gallon for it. Does that seem like some kind of total ripoff to you? I don't hear anyone screaming..............

 

Have you visited an American movie theater lately? Try to buy a chocolate bar or a box of popcorn in the lobby. You may need to get a 2nd mortgage to afford them. People do complain, but they keep on buying..................

 

Last year, Americans paid over $14 BILLION for bottled drinking water. Most of that water came from city taps in Atlanta and Dallas. Chances are that the tap water in your home is better quality - and costs you basically nothing. Nobody seems to care. They keep on sucking on those trendy bottles - and throwing them in land-fills all over America..

 

By the way, Americans paid just $12 BILLION for gasoline that same year (something you cannot make or get at home for a few pennies) and screamed bloody murder at the high prices.

 

I stayed at the Hilton Hawaiian Village recently. A 12 oz can of coke from a vending machine there is now $3.25. Hilton pays less than 50 cents for that coke. A 650% markup. The machines are often empty because so many people are using them. Are people really that dumb?

 

The cruise line execs ARE paying attention - and learning a great deal about you, from the points listed above.

 

Let's look at costs and profits. Many people do not understand them.

 

A land-based Bar in North America hopes to have an average beverage cost of 8% to 12% in order to stay profitable.

Simply put, if the drink costs them 8 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but you get the picture.

 

A cruise ship works a bit differently. Most major cruise lines try to keep their beverage costs under 20% most of the time. Transportation, handling, breakage, and theft push their costs higher. The old urban myth of duty free costs keeping their costs down is just that - an old urban myth. Most cruise lines today find is cheaper to buy alcohol from major distributors (tax included), then pay a fortune to fly it halfway around the planet, and pay some local union another fortune to break/steal part of it and deliver the remainder to the ship. Going "Duty-Free" through a government bonded warehouse is far more expensive, time-consuming, difficult - and just not worth it.

 

So if a cruise line drink costs them 20 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. Pretty simple so far, no?

But so far we are talking only about "drinks" - and not wines.

 

Suppose a cruise line wants to sell a lot of wine.

They need to maintain their 20% cost (or lower) to remain profitable.

The bottle of wine costs them $5. Selling price needs to be $25 to make the 20% cost.

 

I haven't seen a bottle of wine with a $5 cost on a ship in quite some time.

The cheapest bottle on my ship today costs us just over $8. It's not very good. Nearly half the cost was flying it from California to Hong Kong to get it onto the ship.

That requires a selling price of just over $40 to maintain a 20% cost.

 

Let's look back at that bar on land.

His costs are generally lower and he needs a smaller cost percentage to stay profitable.

He doesn't have to pay the interest on a $750 MILLION mortgage, and his monthly fuel bill is substantially below the $2 MILLION (and rapidly climbing) that I pay every month.

 

Of course, he doesn't get to sell cruises to make a profit.

But guess what - my company also makes no profit selling cruises. We sell them at cost most of the time, and below cost to fill those last 50 cabins every week.

 

He also does not sell much wine.

Most Americans are not wine drinkers; it is mainly just people living on the California Coast, a few areas in the Northeast, and South Florida. Those are the big three wine markets in America; the ONLY big wine markets in America.

 

But he is also very lucky. Wine almost always has a higher cost of sales. The more wine he sells, the higher his costs go - and the lower his profits fall.

He can easily sell whiskey, vodka, and even beer with costs below 8%. But not wine.

Does he want to sell wine to you? No.

 

My onboard beverage manager has the same problem - but even worse. His costs on spirits and beer are a bit higher than the land-based bar, but not by much. That's why my ship can sell you a cocktail for about the same price you pay at a Holiday Inn, and still maintain a reasonable +/- 20% cost of sales.

But his wine costs are much higher than those paid on land - mostly due to transportation and handling costs.

Every time he sells you a glass of wine instead of a whiskey, his costs go up and his onboard revenue and profit goes down.

The bulk of his salary comes in the form of an incentive bonus that is based on cost of sales, and overall revenue.

Does he want to sell wine to you? No.

Would he ever suggest lowering the wine prices so that he can sell more, completely sabotaging his costs, killing his monthly salary, and rather quickly losing his job? Not a chance.

 

Would his Corporate Beverage VP ever want to lower wine prices? No way.

The result would cost the company millions in additional costs and lost revenues.

 

Would he ever propose having you pay a $20 corkage fee to bring your own wine onboard?

No way. That gives you 4 or 5 drinks for $20 revenue and no cost.

But selling you a bottle of wine - or even better - 4 or 5 cocktails, would get him more revenue and more profit despite the costs.

 

So now we know the REAL reason why ALL the cruise lines cannot manage to sell even one bottle of wine per passenger per cruise.

We really don't want to. We simply cannot afford it.

The passengers who drink other beverages are subsidizing your cruise.

 

So, all you wine mavens out there (myself proudly included), how much do you think the cruise lines really value your business?

[kazu]

Could be- This was a post from Brucemuzz awhile back who works on cruise ships

 

Originally Posted by BruceMuzz

Many cruisers are rather limited in their cruising experiences and even more limited in their understanding of cruise industry finances.

It is very easy to say," Reduce the selling price by 50% and you will sell twice as many and make far more money".

Anyone with basic math skills can demonstrate why that doesn't work.

If it did work, you can bet that General Motors, Coca-Cola, and McDonalds would have started doing it many years ago.

 

McDonalds sells you a quart of Coca-Cola, badly made from syrup, in a paper cup half filled with ice, that costs them just a few pennies to make. You pay more than a dollar for it. That's quite a substantial mark-up. One might even claim it is downright theft. Is anyone complaining?

 

Starbucks makes you stand in line - twice - to get a paper cup of coffee that costs just a few pennies to produce. You are quite happily paying $32.00 per gallon for it. Does that seem like some kind of total ripoff to you? I don't hear anyone screaming..............

 

Have you visited an American movie theater lately? Try to buy a chocolate bar or a box of popcorn in the lobby. You may need to get a 2nd mortgage to afford them. People do complain, but they keep on buying..................

 

Last year, Americans paid over $14 BILLION for bottled drinking water. Most of that water came from city taps in Atlanta and Dallas. Chances are that the tap water in your home is better quality - and costs you basically nothing. Nobody seems to care. They keep on sucking on those trendy bottles - and throwing them in land-fills all over America..

 

By the way, Americans paid just $12 BILLION for gasoline that same year (something you cannot make or get at home for a few pennies) and screamed bloody murder at the high prices.

 

I stayed at the Hilton Hawaiian Village recently. A 12 oz can of coke from a vending machine there is now $3.25. Hilton pays less than 50 cents for that coke. A 650% markup. The machines are often empty because so many people are using them. Are people really that dumb?

 

The cruise line execs ARE paying attention - and learning a great deal about you, from the points listed above.

 

Let's look at costs and profits. Many people do not understand them.

 

A land-based Bar in North America hopes to have an average beverage cost of 8% to 12% in order to stay profitable.

Simply put, if the drink costs them 8 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but you get the picture.

 

A cruise ship works a bit differently. Most major cruise lines try to keep their beverage costs under 20% most of the time. Transportation, handling, breakage, and theft push their costs higher. The old urban myth of duty free costs keeping their costs down is just that - an old urban myth. Most cruise lines today find is cheaper to buy alcohol from major distributors (tax included), then pay a fortune to fly it halfway around the planet, and pay some local union another fortune to break/steal part of it and deliver the remainder to the ship. Going "Duty-Free" through a government bonded warehouse is far more expensive, time-consuming, difficult - and just not worth it.

 

So if a cruise line drink costs them 20 cents to make, they charge you a dollar for it. Pretty simple so far, no?

But so far we are talking only about "drinks" - and not wines.

 

Suppose a cruise line wants to sell a lot of wine.

They need to maintain their 20% cost (or lower) to remain profitable.

The bottle of wine costs them $5. Selling price needs to be $25 to make the 20% cost.

 

I haven't seen a bottle of wine with a $5 cost on a ship in quite some time.

The cheapest bottle on my ship today costs us just over $8. It's not very good. Nearly half the cost was flying it from California to Hong Kong to get it onto the ship.

That requires a selling price of just over $40 to maintain a 20% cost.

 

Let's look back at that bar on land.

His costs are generally lower and he needs a smaller cost percentage to stay profitable.

He doesn't have to pay the interest on a $750 MILLION mortgage, and his monthly fuel bill is substantially below the $2 MILLION (and rapidly climbing) that I pay every month.

 

Of course, he doesn't get to sell cruises to make a profit.

But guess what - my company also makes no profit selling cruises. We sell them at cost most of the time, and below cost to fill those last 50 cabins every week.

 

He also does not sell much wine.

Most Americans are not wine drinkers; it is mainly just people living on the California Coast, a few areas in the Northeast, and South Florida. Those are the big three wine markets in America; the ONLY big wine markets in America.

 

But he is also very lucky. Wine almost always has a higher cost of sales. The more wine he sells, the higher his costs go - and the lower his profits fall.

He can easily sell whiskey, vodka, and even beer with costs below 8%. But not wine.

Does he want to sell wine to you? No.

 

My onboard beverage manager has the same problem - but even worse. His costs on spirits and beer are a bit higher than the land-based bar, but not by much. That's why my ship can sell you a cocktail for about the same price you pay at a Holiday Inn, and still maintain a reasonable +/- 20% cost of sales.

But his wine costs are much higher than those paid on land - mostly due to transportation and handling costs.

Every time he sells you a glass of wine instead of a whiskey, his costs go up and his onboard revenue and profit goes down.

The bulk of his salary comes in the form of an incentive bonus that is based on cost of sales, and overall revenue.

Does he want to sell wine to you? No.

Would he ever suggest lowering the wine prices so that he can sell more, completely sabotaging his costs, killing his monthly salary, and rather quickly losing his job? Not a chance.

 

Would his Corporate Beverage VP ever want to lower wine prices? No way.

The result would cost the company millions in additional costs and lost revenues.

 

Would he ever propose having you pay a $20 corkage fee to bring your own wine onboard?

No way. That gives you 4 or 5 drinks for $20 revenue and no cost.

But selling you a bottle of wine - or even better - 4 or 5 cocktails, would get him more revenue and more profit despite the costs.

 

So now we know the REAL reason why ALL the cruise lines cannot manage to sell even one bottle of wine per passenger per cruise.

We really don't want to. We simply cannot afford it.

The passengers who drink other beverages are subsidizing your cruise.

 

So, all you wine mavens out there (myself proudly included), how much do you think the cruise lines really value your business?

 

Ahh shucks you were being entertaining and now this?

 

Sorry, I don't swallow this and don't care what Bruce says. There is a bottle of wine on our table in the MDR every night and it doesn't take much to see how many other bottles of wine are on the tables. On our Prinsendam cruise bottles of wine were in the majority. So, I would think that there was at least one bottle of wine per person, sorry. ;)

 

Where HAL is missing the boat is not improving the list. How about picking up some intriguing wines in Europe - white Riojas and red in Spain, the list goes on. Then they don't have to carry them for ages as I am sure they would be gone, just like the local beer is when they pick it up.

 

They have cellar masters on board. Why not let them buy for the ship while they are out stocking for themselves?

 

If they at least did this and passengers knew there were some different choices, it would certainly add to the experience and perhaps help stop the whining about wine :)

 

Obviously if we wait for Seattle it will take a millennium to happen, so if they can't think, let them empower the people with the skills - their staff :)

[cruisemom42]

The issue I have with BruceMuzz's posts is that -- while he often provides some good info and insider views -- he lets his obvious disdain for all passengers to color his "facts," which often verge on hyperbole.

 

A cup of Starbucks coffee costs just cents? Sure -- read here:

 

http://consumeronomics.anoj.net/2013/09/caffeinonomics-1-pricing-cup-of.html

 

Starbucks actually has about an 18% markup, all things considered. If HAL would mark up their wine only by 18%, even their extremely mediocre selections might taste a little better.

[65 Gator]

I totally agree with the comments on the poor selection and price of wines BUT I am primarily a beer drinker. The beer selection, in general, is DISGUSTING. Only rarely can I find a stout or porter on board. I was fortunate to sail with Saurabh Vaishampayan as beverage manager on a cruise and he found me some Guinness Foreign Extra... I treated myself to one each night in the MDR. On our last cruise I managed to special order a whole case of the same. If you look at the beer list it is pure garbage. Not a single black beer to be found but there are lots of pales and lights. I have sent messages after each of the last five cruises bitching about it but no response.

 

Thanks for letting me vent about beer in a wine thread.

[jaguarstyper]

HAL's wine list is laughable, and the prices make it painfully laughable.

[rkacruiser]

With regard to Kazu's recent post, I am wondering how well trained the Cellar Master's are on HAL ships. I have met a couple with whom I was impressed. They knew what they were talking about, based upon my limited wine knowledge.

 

I have met others whom I wonder if there "expertise" was more about wine or about "sales".

[Harry1954]

The wine list is inferior for a five-star line, period. What is worse is that on the World Cruise, they run out of the better quality wines and then there is little or not choices left. This is really a sad state considering that wine can make them money. There must be a reason I am missing, albeit it hard to visualize.

 

Now, with the new wine policy regarding bringing wine onboard, one is even more challenged .. go figure.

 

sadly,

 

harry

[moviefan2010]

I hope HAL hasn't dropped the one white and one red I love from their list. A few others are pretty good. The HAL markup seemed OK to me since it is about the same as some restaurants I go to.

 

 

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