HAL Lousy Wine List

[Vineyard View]

It is a fact that the majority percentage of people choose a wind based on the label - that is the reason that wine label designers are always so busy - label design is constantly evolving and changing within brands.

 

It is also a fact that during the recession, there was extra 'juice' (wine in barrels) of mid to high end wines that wasn't moving - the buying population moved towards lower priced wines. As a result, there were some amazing wines available under private labels at lower prices. This was done to sell the wine and protect the brand.

 

This situation is true for western U.S. Wine producers - and I can only surmise that this took place in other markets, including international. The recession pressures have eased, and these private labels are not so common. That said, there are buys out there under private labels and will continue to be offered. For instance, Costco private labels - Costco is not a winery! Nor do they make their own wines.

 

My point is that there are good wines to be had under labels that come and go - this is a trend that may continue at a much slower pace then the recent past. You can find good buys and deals at lower prices - however following the 'juice' and the label is not always easy as both will change.

 

That said winery brands who offer more complex, fully developed wines - particularly within the reds - are not going to be available for $12 / bottle. There are great wine regions around the world that offer different characteristics based on soils and weather, and I would suggest that this pricing is true for many international regions.

 

But again, as I mentioned previously - there are a myriad of different wines available for a myriad of different tastes. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a $12 bottle of wine being perfect for for a segment of wine lovers - or it would not be on the market. There is also absolutely nothing wrong with a $30, $50, or even $90+ bottle of wine being perfect for another segment of wine lovers.

 

I think that the problem with the HAL wine offering is that they - for the most part - focus on a narrow segment of wine buyers - and that they need to expand their offering, or revise their offering, to include a nice selection of wines in the other segments of wines.

 

Until that happens, the only option is to bring your own wine on board, pay the corkage fee, and enjoy great wines that HAL is not selling to them. Then everyone can be happy. There is no reason to drink wine that you don't like because HAL doesn't offer what you would like to drink. JMHO.

[iancal]

HAL's wine list is certainly a long way off from being one of their top attributes. In fact, I would rank it next to their entertainment offerings.

 

Although poor, it does not enter into the top 5 attributes/price/itinerary, etc that we use to select a ship/cruise line.

 

It simply means that on HAL we spend less on wine. So there is a benefit to that deficiency.

[OTOW guy]

first when I buy from a wine club, if I don't like the wine, I call and they give me a credit. I don't know what HALs policy is if you order sa bottle and don't like it.

Second, on the new preview video of Konigdam they show the main dining room with a wall of wine and claim that they will be offering new wine selections. I just wish that they look at the Princess list as to selections and price. I think it's better than HALs.

[backwerd]

Vineyard View

Agreed, different wines do have different attributes and this does affect pricing.

However, regardless of any of the attributes you mention, what really matters is what is in the glass after the wine is poured.

If, and as the article I linked to, and others available on the internet suggest, even wine experts cannot tell the expensive from the cheap, it surely makes little sense to purchase $90 wine if you are unable to appreciate what went into making it a $90 bottle.

I am sure there will be many wine drinkers who will adamantly claim that they can tell the difference. But, put to the test, I wonder how many really can.

I have a good reason for not buying $90 wine, I can't afford it. If I could afford it and bought it in spite of my inability to appreciate it, I would indeed be a wine snob.

I enjoy wine, but like the people in the test I linked to, I probably couldn't tell that the red I was drinking was in fact a dyed white.

I do understand your point that HAL should offer a wider selection of wines for those that would appreciate them. I, however, am quite happy with the status quo.

Cheers, D

[chrispb]

I admit I cannot tell the difference between expensive wines and cheap ones, but I can tell the difference between good wine and bad wine.

If I like it it is good wine, if I don't like it it is bad wine.

 

It would appear, based on recent and not so recent "tests" I am not alone in my inability to tell expensive from cheap. Check the following link. It is an old link, but I believe it still works.

http://www.smh.com.au/money/saving/its-only-plonk-if-you-look-at-the-price-tag-20130702-2p8a9.html

Cheers, D

 

I'm with you. I've had really good cheaper wines whereas some of the more expensive wines haven't been so good.

 

Why is it though, that the first glass of wine always tastes better than the 2nd glass poured half hour later from the same bottle???? Beats me:confused:

[Boytjie]

A small observation/experience regarding identifying cheaper vs more expensive wines:

 

In September we were in Oregon for Feast Portland and I attended an event which was a tasting of five local chardonnays. There were two that I liked and one was a very nice, drink-it-often wine and the other one was definitely more complex. A few days later we traveled through the Willamette valley and stopped at both wineries. At the first I just bought a bottle of drink-it-often chardonnay and it was $15. At the second one we did a tasting and while four of the wines were Pinot Noirs, the last one was the other chardonnay that I liked. I did not buy any there since it was $85 a bottle!

[Boytjie]

Deleted

Edited November 13, 2014 by Boytjie

[SoCal Cruiser78]

A small observation/experience regarding identifying cheaper vs more expensive wines:

 

In September we were in Oregon for Feast Portland and I attended an event which was a tasting of five local chardonnays. There were two that I liked and one was a very nice, drink-it-often wine and the other one was definitely more complex. A few days later we traveled through the Willamette valley and stopped at both wineries. At the first I just bought a bottle of drink-it-often chardonnay and it was $15. At the second one we did a tasting and while four of the wines were Pinot Noirs, the last one was the other chardonnay that I liked. I did not buy any there since it was $85 a bottle!

 

My take on wines is that they are like many other consumer items. Sometimes you are paying more for quality, and sometimes you are just paying for a label. Buy what you like and can afford.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Ryndam2002

[jaguarstyper]

Vineyard View

Agreed, different wines do have different attributes and this does affect pricing.

However, regardless of any of the attributes you mention, what really matters is what is in the glass after the wine is poured.

If, and as the article I linked to, and others available on the internet suggest, even wine experts cannot tell the expensive from the cheap, it surely makes little sense to purchase $90 wine if you are unable to appreciate what went into making it a $90 bottle.

I am sure there will be many wine drinkers who will adamantly claim that they can tell the difference. But, put to the test, I wonder how many really can.

I have a good reason for not buying $90 wine, I can't afford it. If I could afford it and bought it in spite of my inability to appreciate it, I would indeed be a wine snob.

I enjoy wine, but like the people in the test I linked to, I probably couldn't tell that the red I was drinking was in fact a dyed white.

I do understand your point that HAL should offer a wider selection of wines for those that would appreciate them. I, however, am quite happy with the status quo.

Cheers, D

I cannot really agree with this. I am far from a wine snob and I don't consider myself any sort of oenophile. However, I can definitely tell the difference between a fine vintage wine that commands a higher price and a $10-15 bottle of the same variety. That's not to say I cannot enjoy a $10 bottle of wine, but I can appreciate better wines. I drink Black Box Pinot Noir daily. Is is great? No, but its OK as an everyday wine to drink with dinner. But, I have some bottles of Pinot Noir on my wine racks that cost me 5-10 times more per bottle and they are worlds different.

 

I have a hard time imagining that anyone could not tell the difference. Even someone with little or no experience tasting and evaluating wine.

 

And, you don't have to spend $90 or anywhere close to that for a bottle of wine that will outshine a lower priced comparables. I like Pinot Noir and I find that bottles that sell for $20-25 are significantly better than bottles that sell for $10-15 or less. Not just a little bit better, but significantly better.

 

But, its no different than anything else. There are a lot of people who are perfectly happy with a steak from Longhorn and think a steak from somewhere like Gibson's in Chicago is no better and not worth the price. And, there is nothing wrong with that. You should enjoy whatever you are happy with, regardless of the price tag.

Edited November 13, 2014 by jaguarstyper

[POA1]

Vineyard View

Agreed, different wines do have different attributes and this does affect pricing.

However, regardless of any of the attributes you mention, what really matters is what is in the glass after the wine is poured.

If, and as the article I linked to, and others available on the internet suggest, even wine experts cannot tell the expensive from the cheap, it surely makes little sense to purchase $90 wine if you are unable to appreciate what went into making it a $90 bottle.

 

There's a problem with your supposition, and I'm surprised no one pointed it out. Nowhere in the article to which you linked does it say that experts were fooled. It says "54 volunteers," "20 volunteers," and "578 experiment participants."

 

The correct thing to say is that three groups of (probably randomly selected) people couldn't tell the difference between expensive and inexpensive wine.

Edited November 13, 2014 by POA1

[jaguarstyper]

There's a problem with your supposition, and I'm surprised no one pointed it out. Nowhere in the article to which you linked does it say that experts were fooled. It says "54 volunteers," "20 volunteers," and "578 experiment participants."

 

The correct thing to say is that three groups of (probably randomly selected) people couldn't tell the difference between expensive and inexpensive wine.

That was my thought too. And, I have a strange sense that this article is pushing some sort of agenda. I could be way off base. All I really know is I really like wine, I drink it often and have been for many years. I also make my own wine. Does this make me an "expert"? Of course not. But, the ability to evaluate wine does take some practice and I've had lots of practice. :D

[POA1]

But, the ability to evaluate wine does take some practice and I've had lots of practice. :D

 

Your right. Practice. Practice. Practice. Can't let your skills get rusty.

[taxmantoo]

Your right. Practice. Practice. Practice. Can't let your skills get rusty.

 

Been there, done that. I have since slowed down a bit but I remember tasting upwards of 50 - 60 wines a day in preparation of my sommelier blind tasting exams. :D Starting at 8 am in the morning and lasting until dinner time. An awful lot of spitting and tongue got to be quite thick but still managed to have a good bottle I could appreciate with dinner!

Edited November 13, 2014 by taxmantoo

[Vineyard View]

I didn't post that link - I responded to that link - I happen to be a wine snob - and proud of it - do I always drink very high end wines? No. Can I tell the difference of a fine cab vs $10 cab - my batting average is pretty high.

 

Do I care if someone enjoys a $10 cab? Nope. Happy for them. There are $10 cabs on the market for those who like it.

 

I don't agree with the supposition that people can't tell the difference. I think it more appropriate to say that there are a lot of people who can't tell the difference. And - there are a lot of people who CAN tell the difference.

 

As I said previously - paying the corkage fee worked just fine for us. Why? Because we didn't care for HAL's wine list for US. Doesn't mean it isn't a good wine offering for others.

[backwerd]

I was perhaps a little tardy in offering the link I did without re-reading it. I wasn't aware that it didn't describe some of the people involved as experts.

However, there are a number of articles available on the internet that do describe the tasters (at least in many cases) as experts.

The 54 who didn't notice that the red they were drinking was the white they had tried earlier dyed red are described as experts in this article:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/jun/23/wine-tasting-junk-science-analysis

I have been drinking and enjoying all kinds of wine for more than sixty years. So I have certainly had the practice, although I must concede to being a slow learner.

Maybe another couple of decades will do it. I still have no idea what the wine scribes are describing, and I sure as hell don't feel like spending any more time trying to make sense of it. I will, however spend much more time enjoying my cheap plonk and will leave the better stuff to the discerning few on this board who feel they can tell the difference. I hope HAL listens to your requests for a better wine list, I am content with what is there, but I am not so pig-headed as to think opinions like mine are the only ones that matter.

Now if someone wanted to start a thread about the merits of single malts versus blendeds, I might be arguing from the other side of the table.

 

I will leave this discussion now and drift into the lurking mode which has been my practice for a few years,

 

Slangevar, D

[POA1]

I didn't post that link - I responded to that link - I happen to be a wine snob - and proud of it -

 

Your name was in the post I quoted. I knew it wasn't you. (I also realize that I never posted Greek wine recommendations this summer.)

 

My apologies if people thought you were the one who posted the link.

[Vineyard View]

I like those single malts too :D

[POA1]

I don't agree with the supposition that people can't tell the difference. I think it more appropriate to say that there are a lot of people who can't tell the difference. And - there are a lot of people who CAN tell the difference.

 

As I said previously - paying the corkage fee worked just fine for us. Why? Because we didn't care for HAL's wine list for US. Doesn't mean it isn't a good wine offering for others.

 

We're on the same page. If we were unable to take our own wine because of logistics, we could make do with the Holland America packages and/or wine list. (Okay wine is better than none at all.) We're fortunate to be close to the port, so we can take the "12 Bottle Cheer Pack."

 

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s88/sh/93fbe23e-82fb-4e1a-bfe1-c432db682809/cf41300197754b73

 

BTW, there is one of those $12 bottles in there. It's Charles Smith's Kung Fu Girl Evergreen Vineyard Riesling. (Tamarind pairing.)

[maxout]

I like those single malts too :D

 

Hear, hear! :D ;)

[POA1]

I was perhaps a little tardy in offering the link I did without re-reading it. I wasn't aware that it didn't describe some of the people involved as experts.

However, there are a number of articles available on the internet that do describe the tasters (at least in many cases) as experts.

 

My apologies if I came across as confrontational. No harm meant. Drink what you like. Like what you drink. :)

[trixiee]

Question - Do any of you bring your own aerator? I have found that aerating a $10.00 bottle of wine significantly improves the taste...

[POA1]

[quote name='trixiee']Question - Do any of you bring your own aerator? I have found that aerating a $10.00 bottle of wine significantly improves the taste...[/QUOTE]
We don't. We decant, if necessary, or swirl if we don't have a decanter. The Vinturi / aerator is probably a nice, portable, easy to clean tool for younger wines that need air & time.

[tjcox9]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][SIZE="4"][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]We totally agree with the OP. HAL has the worst wine list on the high seas. The quality/value/price formula is way out of whack. Why HAL doesn't pay attention to the complaints in this regard is beyond comprehension.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[LindaM]

[quote name='tjcox9'][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="4"][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"][SIZE="4"][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]We totally agree with the OP. HAL has the worst wine list on the high seas. The quality/value/price formula is way out of whack. Why HAL doesn't pay attention to the complaints in this regard is beyond comprehension.[/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Because there are still many of us who disagree with this assertion. HAL may not have enough people onboard who are complaining or even purchasing wine for HAL to take the CC complaints seriously. This is not where they want to concentrate their efforts. Celebrity used to be considered an upscale line. Perhaps that is why they still offer better wines---they never changed after they went mainstream. Those of you who don't like the wines offered should be extremely grateful there was a group of us who made a big fuss, so HAL instituted a corkage for wines brought onboard. As of a year ago, you couldn't have brought wine onboard...if I remember the dates correctly!

[jaguarstyper]

[quote name='LindaM']Those of you who don't like the wines offered should be extremely grateful there was a group of us who made a big fuss, so HAL instituted a corkage for wines brought onboard. As of a year ago, you couldn't have brought wine onboard...if I remember the dates correctly![/QUOTE]This is completely inaccurate. Until recently, you could bring as much wine onboard as you could carry with no corkage charge unless you brought a bottle somewhere other than in your cabin or veranda. You were welcome to bring a bottle of wine you brought onboard to any restaurant or lounge, but would be charged a corkage charge at that time. The only thing HAL effectively changed is that now you have to pay the corkage charge up front on all your wine, minus one bottle per passenger, regardless of where you intend to enjoy it. Edited November 14, 2014 by jaguarstyper