Are the Changes Temporary or Permanent?

[SilvertoGold]

You guys do know other cruise lines have been using those for years, right?

 

Oh, sure, but you see, PathfinderEss and I, like good 5 stars are SO easy to please. That is why HAL likes us so much!

[SilvertoGold]

Yes, but you have to give Hal credit for advancing. When we were on our cruise in May, they actually had on the last night on TV, the color tags for disembarking the ship with the times that each color was to leave. Pretty good for Hal.

 

 

HAL has had that for a while on the TV, since last year, I guess. Probably selected ships. I tripped over that screen on the way to something else and was shocked!

[Aquahound]

Yes, but you have to give Hal credit for advancing. When we were on our cruise in May, they actually had on the last night on TV, the color tags for disembarking the ship with the times that each color was to leave. Pretty good for Hal.

 

Oh, sure, but you see, PathfinderEss and I, like good 5 stars are SO easy to please. That is why HAL likes us so much!

 

Thanks for being in good spirit. You made my night. :D

[gatorbill62]

One of the reasons DH and I prefer either dining with friends or dining alone for set dining on HAL is because we have been stuck with whining table mates before.

 

I am not saying that HAL is the same line it was 10 or 20 years ago, but sometimes a trip can be ruined by listening to repeated remarks about falling quality.

 

We so often hear from 2 cruisers on the same ship and their varying experiences and satisfaction. We try to judge a cruise on our own experience and try not to let others affect our trips in a negative fashion.

Could not have said it any better

[jkgourmet]

Thanks, I see your point and appreciate your answers, but isn't there still a need for traditional cruising? Couldn't Hal niche be exactly that, traditional style cruising?

Even when I was younger, zipling, ice rinks wouldn't be a draw for me to a cruise line. I guess I'm just more of a traditionalist at heart. Give me great food, good service, great bars and you have made me happy, I'm pretty easy to please.

I personally don't need all the bells and whistles that seem to be necessary for the other cruise lines to draw customers.

Really can you ever see Hal with a zip line going across their ships, hard to fathom.:D:D:D

 

 

No. I'd see HAL going out of business WAAAAY before that happened.

[cruisemom42]

Pretty good for Hal.

 

It's funny, but in a way I think that sentence says a lot.

 

To stay afloat (pun intended) financially, HAL is going to need to appeal to cruisers who are used to what other lines offer. I'm not talking about hairy chest contests or rock walls, but about more sophisticated electronic systems, more diverse specialty dining offerings and wine/beverage packages that people are experiencing on other lines.

 

It's not much of a marketing slogan to attract new cruisers by saying "Well....pretty good for HAL."

[PathfinderEss]

It's funny, but in a way I think that sentence says a lot.

 

To stay afloat (pun intended) financially, HAL is going to need to appeal to cruisers who are used to what other lines offer. I'm not talking about hairy chest contests or rock walls, but about more sophisticated electronic systems, more diverse specialty dining offerings and wine/beverage packages that people are experiencing on other lines.

 

It's not much of a marketing slogan to attract new cruisers by saying "Well....pretty good for HAL."

 

Hey, like someone earlier pointed out were all old and set in our ways so why we would be looking for more sophisticated electronic's, really and what would that be?;)..........untill Hal decides to go into building mega ships, it will be kind of hard for her to have more restaurants, what 3's not enough, how many should Hal have?:D.........they have wine/beverage packages now, maybe not to some passengers liking but they do have them.;)

I understand with all the complaining about new customers, they don't seem to be desperate. Seems to me that they sell out there ships inspite of their lack of restaurants - sophisticated electronics - and wine/beverage packages. I'm just saying.........

[Lizzie68]

Hey, like someone earlier pointed out were all old and set in our ways so why we would be looking for more sophisticated electronic's, really and what would that be?;)..........untill Hal decides to go into building mega ships, it will be kind of hard for her to have more restaurants, what 3's not enough, how many should Hal have?:D.........they have wine/beverage packages now, maybe not to some passengers liking but they do have them.;)

 

I understand with all the complaining about new customers, they don't seem to be desperate. Seems to me that they sell out there ships inspite of their lack of restaurants - sophisticated electronics - and wine/beverage packages. I'm just saying.........

 

I think we get that you don't want HAL to change.:D But HAL has to look to the future, and to the next generation, if they are to survive. "Sophisticated electronics" are just day to day necessities for business and the rest of the world. All of us old 'uns have had to learn new technology, and the younger ones expect it. The world is changing - has changed. To not keep up is to stagnate. It is totally possible to keep the old world charm and steeped traditions while accepting and embracing new (and current) electronics and ideology.

[cruisemom42]

I think we get that you don't want HAL to change.:D But HAL has to look to the future, and to the next generation, if they are to survive. "Sophisticated electronics" are just day to day necessities for business and the rest of the world. All of us old 'uns have had to learn new technology, and the younger ones expect it. The world is changing - has changed. To not keep up is to stagnate. It is totally possible to keep the old world charm and steeped traditions while accepting and embracing new (and current) electronics and ideology.

 

Exactly. And several people in this thread (HAL cruisers even! :rolleyes:) have brought up their wish to have HAL update to having certain things available that are already offered on other ships.

[POA1]

If the people on this board count for anything - and I like to think that we do - the average CC HAL posted is under 60.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=43592400&postcount=34

 

As for that "shrinking demographic" everyone keeps talking about:

 

• In 2000, 16.3% of the US Population was 60+ and 12.4% was 65 or older.
  
• In 2010, 18.4% of the US Population was 60+ and 13.0% was 65 or older.
  
• In 2020, the US Department on Aging projects that 22.2% of the US Population will be 60+ and 16.1% will be 65 or older.
  
• In 2030, the US Department on Aging projects that 24.7% of the US Population will be 60+ and 19.3% will be 65 or older.
  

According to the Department on Aging, these growth trends continue until after 2050. The percentage of Americans 85+ follows a similar path.

[Aquahound]

Exactly. And several people in this thread (HAL cruisers even! :rolleyes:) have brought up their wish to have HAL update to having certain things available that are already offered on other ships.

 

I'm a little torn on the subject...and I'm only in my upper 30s. ;)

 

In one way, I kinda miss cruising how it was 10-15 years ago where the other lines felt like HAL does right now. I remember sitting in the Crow's Nest a few weeks ago, listening to the solo guitarist, and telling my wife this is why I fell in love with cruising.

 

On the other hand, when you get used to being able to order room service from your tv instead of hanging that door menu, or checking your spending account, or making reservations on your tv, you do feel kinda primitive when you cruise a line that doesn't have that technology. That's just one example. I think HAL can come up to date with cruising technologies without sacrificing that traditional feel throught the ship.

[Tarpeian Rock]

We're 60-somethings who are fine with technology, smart phones, computers and all, spent professional lives adapting to technology changes in the workplace -- but to me, HAL's issues go far beyond the lack of account statements on the TV or lack of online reservations. I think hang-tags for a room service breakfast are fine -- lets me write in a special request, say, extra butter. Screen-based ordering, oriented around pre-defined choices may just not be as friendly to special requests. I actually LIKE dealing with people, not machines, on a cruise.

 

But the larger issue is what HAL's identity, niche, in the marketplace is. For all the reasons documented on CC, it's getting harder for HAL to lay claim to "traditional" upscale cruising. It'll never the the line for lovers of rock walls, swinging space pods, and water slides. Well-heeled grandparents will take their kids to Disney or other more children's activity-focused lines. Some of HAL's traditional base is migrating (as we have) to a truer upscale experience like Oceania or X or similar. Other parts of HAL's base are just aging out of cruising. I just don't see technological bits drawing new customers. People encounter food 3+ times a day; how often do they want to interact with their screen? And where would the money come from for a fleet-wide technology upgrade -- the food budget? Just seems that HAL is getting squeezed from all sides: from the foodie/service lines, from the young actives lines, from the mega-ships, from the boutique lines. Maybe the new build will provide a window into HAL's future direction and thinking. But it seems that the way things are headed, all of HAL's ships are in danger of becoming merely the Good Enoughdam.

[cbr663]

<snip>

 

But it seems that the way things are headed, all of HAL's ships are in danger of becoming merely the Good Enoughdam.

 

Great statement. I also don't think that HAL needs rock climbing walls, but it certainly needs to re-focus on traditional excellence. HAL has lost its commitment to excellence and it needs to get back on track. Plumbing and a/c issues, dinged furniture, tired looking flowers, thread bare carpets, cracked tiles, and cold food do not scream excellence. Great food, great service and great bars are very hard to find on some of HAL's ships.

[iancal]

The issue is HAL is delivering to the demographic of the past, not the current demographic or the future demographic. By that I mean we have an aging population, but those who are seniors in 5 years are NOT like the seniors of say 20 years ago. These are more adaptive people in general to technology and are often better informed consumers-a result of the information age. They, like many consumers today, no longer feel loyalty to a specific brand. Partly because the loyalty is not earned and partly because communication eductates people about products-and competing products.

 

We don't care about what HAL or any other line was 5, 10 years ago. It is not relevant to our choice as a consumer. We make a choice by comparing today's attributes. There is lot's of competition and many ships and cruise lines that offer stellar product and stellar value.

 

We do not care about a rock climbing wall or an ice rink. What we want is AC/Plumbling that we can be assured works (ie not Veendam), a fair standard of cabin and ship maintenance, reasonable food, a second dining venue that is informal on formal evenings (not the Lido that starts closing down at 7PM or that sad Caneletto excuse of an alternate dining venue). We would like to have an interactive info system to check our account, get other relevant data about the ship. Good entertainment is nice. But we would rather have NO entertainment than two poor souls playing a violin for a half hour before dinner or five recent high school drama/dance students putting on a floor show. We very much prefer a smoke free environment in the casino. We would like a reasonable wine list so that we can have a selection of medium priced wine. Smokey casino and poor wine means we spend much less. It detracts from our enjoyment.

 

For us, a cruise line is only as good as our last cruise. So we tend to vote with our feet. We don't believe in rewarding a vendor for a poor product or experience by signing up for a repeat performance. So far it has worked just fine for us. HAL is being pushed off our short list by their competition. The only attribute we now consider for a HAL cruise is itinerary.

 

It is all about how we perceive value. If the value for us is not there, we move on to another product/service offering.

Edited August 1, 2014 by iancal

[frankc98376]

I understand with all the complaining about new customers, they don't seem to be desperate. Seems to me that they sell out there ships inspite of their lack of restaurants - sophisticated electronics - and wine/beverage packages. I'm just saying.........

 

If they are selling out their ships at $400 sale prices to people that invent new ways to sneak booze on board we certainly won't be seeing more Caviar.

 

Last year we paid $4800 for our NS on a seven night Alaska. A couple told us that they paid $299 for an inside guarantee, got an upsell offer to Veranda of $149pp, then an upsell to SS for another $149pp. They turned down another offer to NS at $249pp. They would have been in the same NS for about $1600 total. How many others were offered the same or less?

 

At these prices changes are inevitable. Cutbacks are going to happen. Nordstrom couldn't sell their merchandise for 60% less and maintain their "traditional" identity and level of service for very long.

 

It seems lately the plan has been just fill up the ship at any price and hope like hell they spend a lot on board. Maybe the lines have discovered that by getting people into a higher category they spend more on board- I know the SS couple we spoke to didn't- she told us how to get booze on board undetected and how to remove the HSC on the last night and walk away with pretty much a zero bill on the last day.

[Aquahound]

Last year we paid $4800 for our NS on a seven night Alaska. A couple told us that they paid $299 for an inside guarantee, got an upsell offer to Veranda of $149pp, then an upsell to SS for another $149pp. They turned down another offer to NS at $249pp. They would have been in the same NS for about $1600 total. How many others were offered the same or less?

 

Last year, June, I cruised Celebrity Millennium to Alaska at a price of $1600 p/p for a veranda and the ship completely sold out a week before sailing. This year, July, I cruised HAL to Alaska at a price of $899 p/p for a veranda and last I checked, 2 days prior to sailing, there were several rooms open in all categories below suites. I refused upsell calls, but apparently others didn't. And usually, July is more expensive than June.

 

Now, this could just be an anomaly, but I don't think so. When I priced this cruise, other cruises I looked at for the same week on RCI, Celebrity and Princess were already sold out or only had 1 or 2 room categories open, and what was open was considerably more expensive than HAL. By the way, it wasn't just my cruise. It was the same story for Zaandam cruising the same week.

[cbr663]

Perhaps that is what Stein Kruse refers to when he states, "...a commitment to provide a truly extraordinary experience and tremendous value."

 

A SS for less than $600 and for Alaska is tremendous value. But then again, an inside for less than $300 is even better value. That's little more than $42 pp/day.

Edited August 1, 2014 by cbr663

[iancal]

You just never know. We booked our last years 14 day Christmas cruise on Eclipse in mid November last year. Just under $110. pp for a beautiful extended balcony cabin. We could have had an Oosterdam verandah for 7 days in Alaska for less than $100.day last month....insides were $300.

 

Cabins are like airline seats. They loose all value once the ship has sailed. Some cruise lines view it better to get something rather than nothing. Lots and lots of discounted cabins on HAL, Princess, and NCL this Alaska season.

We are looking at the Med for Oct...not nearly as much as in the past two years.

Edited August 1, 2014 by iancal

[POA1]

If they are selling out their ships at $400 sale prices to people that invent new ways to sneak booze on board we certainly won't be seeing more Caviar.

 

Last year we paid $4800 for our NS on a seven night Alaska. A couple told us that they paid $299 for an inside guarantee, got an upsell offer to Veranda of $149pp, then an upsell to SS for another $149pp. They turned down another offer to NS at $249pp. They would have been in the same NS for about $1600 total. How many others were offered the same or less?

 

At these prices changes are inevitable. Cutbacks are going to happen. Nordstrom couldn't sell their merchandise for 60% less and maintain their "traditional" identity and level of service for very long.

 

It seems lately the plan has been just fill up the ship at any price and hope like hell they spend a lot on board. Maybe the lines have discovered that by getting people into a higher category they spend more on board- I know the SS couple we spoke to didn't- she told us how to get booze on board undetected and how to remove the HSC on the last night and walk away with pretty much a zero bill on the last day.

As someone who is the same boat, I never understood why the hotel managers didn’t throw some spiffs the way of the high revenue suite passengers. They should have the price paid available to them for everyone on board. A well placed bottle of comped Champagne (the real kind, ) a small cocktail party, a Pinnacle Grill lunch... Just something to let you know that they care.

 

We were discussing this the other day as we have no life, and it struck us as odd that they've decided to "ding" the high fare passenger just because their overall average revenues in the suite categories is lower. Would a bottle of Veuve make you feel better about paying a lot more?

 

Of course not. You would have to drink it first. ;)

[frankc98376]

Wouldn't surprise me at all to see capacity cuts in Alaska next year with all of the great deals this summer. Perhaps HAL will keep a ship or two in Caribbean or send one to Mexico for the summer.

 

I miss the old 14 night Mexico out of San Francisco- was a great cruise

Edited August 1, 2014 by frankc98376

[frankc98376]

As someone who is the same boat, I never understood why the hotel managers didn’t throw some spiffs the way of the high revenue suite passengers. They should have the price paid available to them for everyone on board. A well placed bottle of comped Champagne (the real kind, ) a small cocktail party, a Pinnacle Grill lunch... Just something to let you know that they care.

 

We were discussing this the other day as we have no life, and it struck us as odd that they've decided to "ding" the high fare passenger just because their overall average revenues in the suite categories is lower. Would a bottle of Veuve make you feel better about paying a lot more?

 

Of course not. You would have to drink it first. ;)

 

We really need to be on the same cruise sometime. I have a feeling we would all get along very well :D

[SilvertoGold]

The one thing about the low fares and low upsells: HAL is not selling a lot of the ship at these low prices. Some people make it sound as if HAL is selling the whole ship for $299!

 

To move their inventory they put pricing down, just the way your local department store moves those summer t-shirts by discounting 25% off in July. Then HAL continues to lower the pricing to sell the rest (if there are any more) just as those t-shirts eventually go to 50% off in August.

 

This makes a lot of sense and is just normal retail business. Not sure why this is considered such a bad thing.

Edited August 1, 2014 by SilvertoGold

[SilvertoGold]

Thanks for being in good spirit. You made my night. :D

 

And you made my morning with your nice comment!

[SilvertoGold]

As someone who is the same boat, I never understood why the hotel managers didn’t throw some spiffs the way of the high revenue suite passengers. They should have the price paid available to them for everyone on board. A well placed bottle of comped Champagne (the real kind, ) a small cocktail party, a Pinnacle Grill lunch... Just something to let you know that they care.

 

We were discussing this the other day as we have no life, and it struck us as odd that they've decided to "ding" the high fare passenger just because their overall average revenues in the suite categories is lower. Would a bottle of Veuve make you feel better about paying a lot more?

 

Of course not. You would have to drink it first. ;)

 

Sorry, don't quite understand what you are saying about "spiffs".

 

Suite pax have a Suite cocktail party; usually receive and invitation to the VIP party; have a Suite luncheon; have free laundry, pressing and drycleaning; have the Neptune Lounge and all its extras; have priority embarkation and disembarkation and tendering. I am sure I missed a couple of perks.

 

Those aren't spiffs? Just asking!

[jaspersmycat]

Sorry, don't quite understand what you are saying about "spiffs".

 

Suite pax have a Suite cocktail party; usually receive and invitation to the VIP party; have a Suite luncheon; have free laundry, pressing and drycleaning; have the Neptune Lounge and all its extras; have priority embarkation and disembarkation and tendering. I am sure I missed a couple of perks.

 

Those aren't spiffs? Just asking!

 

I believe POA1 is talking about some extras for those paying full price rather than those paying a discounted price or upsell price to a Neptune suite.