Reduced Staffing - a myth?

[Gracie115]

All too often, the cruising public makes assumptions about how the cruise industry really works.

Usually those assumptions are completely wrong.

And we know what happens when we ASS/U/ME something.

 

To understand why a cruise line does anything, you need to look for the money trail.

Sometimes simple to follow; sometimes not.

 

Employing a tipped service employee on a mass market cruise ship costs the company just under US$14 per day. That's total; salary, housing, medical, uniforms, food, training, administration, and transportation. That's not very much money, you say. At those rates the cruise lines should have far more service staff onboard to make our cruise a bigger success.

 

Great idea - until you try to implement it.

 

Cruise ships rarely suffer from money shortages - but we do struggle with space. Cruise ships never have enough space to do what we want / need to do.

Regardless of the size of the ship, there are legal and physical limits to the number of bodies the ship can accommodate.

The cruise line needs to decide in advance how many service crew (costing $14 per day) they can hold, versus how many passengers (paying $150 per day) they can hold.

 

The more crew you have to house, the fewer paying passengers you will have onboard.

 

When cruise lines build new ships, we always build just enough crew cabins for the number of crew we need NOW. We always know - and have always known - that as the ship ages and the cruise industry develops, we will need to place more crew onboard. But we never plan for that eventuality. It is far cheaper build a ship with fewer crew cabins and facilities, and more profitable to have more passenger cabins instead.

 

Then comes the time when we are forced to add new crew positions. The Coast Guard requires additional Bridge Officers for safety reasons. The EPA requires additional Sanitation Engineers for managing our waste streams. Corporate Onboard Revenue adds an Acupuncturist, a Tooth Whitener, a high end Black and White photographer, an onboard Gemologist, a Computer Trainer, Personal Trainers, a Librarian. Corporate Entertainment adds more performers. All of these people are guaranteed single cabins. But there are no empty crew beds or cabins for them to sleep in.

 

Corporate Sales and Marketing will ABSOLUTELY NOT give up a single passenger cabin for any use that does not involve a paid fare.

There is no additional space available to build additional crew cabins. There is also no budget. In some cases, it is not even legal to add more crew cabins

 

What do we do? These new crew MUST be accommodated.

 

No problem. We send home 2 waiters living in a shared cabin and convert it to a single cabin for the new crew. Then we send home 2 wine stewards and do the same with their cabin. Then we send home 2 stateroom stewards and convert their cabin. We keep doing that until we have enough cabins for the required crew.

These service staff we sent home are not legally required onboard - and in many cases they do not directly generate revenues or profits.

 

Over the past decade my ship has received over 50 additional new crew. But the actual crew count on my ship has actually gone down. There is no place for anyone else to sleep.

 

Next time you start wishing for a cheaper cruise, be aware that the cruise lines are listening. But be careful what you wish for.

 

Don't know what ship you work on but your post makes more valid points and is far more logical and in depth than any of the ones twisting statistics around. Thanks for posting this, I doubt very much that any of us that have responded to this thread have taken the staffing issues you state into consideration.

[Quo Vadis?]

Don't know what ship you work on but your post makes more valid points and is far more logical and in depth than any of the ones twisting statistics around. Thanks for posting this, I doubt very much that any of us that have responded to this thread have taken the staffing issues you state into consideration.

 

I agree. The same point was made concerning the additional "future sales staff" which has grown and Park West staff that needed accommodation.

I asked those who posted $$$ amounts if they could find the actual numbers employed in the past compared with numbers now.

 

Thanks BruzeMuzz for summarizing a process that we assumed was occurring.

[chamima]

All too often, the cruising public makes assumptions about how the cruise industry really works.

Usually those assumptions are completely wrong.

And we know what happens when we ASS/U/ME something.

 

To understand why a cruise line does anything, you need to look for the money trail.

Sometimes simple to follow; sometimes not.

 

Employing a tipped service employee on a mass market cruise ship costs the company just under US$14 per day. That's total; salary, housing, medical, uniforms, food, training, administration, and transportation. That's not very much money, you say. At those rates the cruise lines should have far more service staff onboard to make our cruise a bigger success.

 

Great idea - until you try to implement it.

 

Cruise ships rarely suffer from money shortages - but we do struggle with space. Cruise ships never have enough space to do what we want / need to do.

Regardless of the size of the ship, there are legal and physical limits to the number of bodies the ship can accommodate.

The cruise line needs to decide in advance how many service crew (costing $14 per day) they can hold, versus how many passengers (paying $150 per day) they can hold.

 

The more crew you have to house, the fewer paying passengers you will have onboard.

 

When cruise lines build new ships, we always build just enough crew cabins for the number of crew we need NOW. We always know - and have always known - that as the ship ages and the cruise industry develops, we will need to place more crew onboard. But we never plan for that eventuality. It is far cheaper build a ship with fewer crew cabins and facilities, and more profitable to have more passenger cabins instead.

 

Then comes the time when we are forced to add new crew positions. The Coast Guard requires additional Bridge Officers for safety reasons. The EPA requires additional Sanitation Engineers for managing our waste streams. Corporate Onboard Revenue adds an Acupuncturist, a Tooth Whitener, a high end Black and White photographer, an onboard Gemologist, a Computer Trainer, Personal Trainers, a Librarian. Corporate Entertainment adds more performers. All of these people are guaranteed single cabins. But there are no empty crew beds or cabins for them to sleep in.

 

Corporate Sales and Marketing will ABSOLUTELY NOT give up a single passenger cabin for any use that does not involve a paid fare.

There is no additional space available to build additional crew cabins. There is also no budget. In some cases, it is not even legal to add more crew cabins

 

What do we do? These new crew MUST be accommodated.

 

No problem. We send home 2 waiters living in a shared cabin and convert it to a single cabin for the new crew. Then we send home 2 wine stewards and do the same with their cabin. Then we send home 2 stateroom stewards and convert their cabin. We keep doing that until we have enough cabins for the required crew.

These service staff we sent home are not legally required onboard - and in many cases they do not directly generate revenues or profits.

 

Over the past decade my ship has received over 50 additional new crew. But the actual crew count on my ship has actually gone down. There is no place for anyone else to sleep.

 

Next time you start wishing for a cheaper cruise, be aware that the cruise lines are listening. But be careful what you wish for.

 

Thanks Bruce!

What you post really makes sense and explains the short-staffing a lot of us have noticed, especially in the last year or so.

[OBX-Cruisers]

Bruce Muzz:

 

Most of us can't thank you enough for sharing your insider knowledge to explain what is really happening. Great explanation and does a lot to show why changes in some areas can be logical when considered on a space vs. contribution basis (a capella singers as one example of what I thought previously was an unfortunate loss).

Once again the use of financial statistics goes down in flames when actual facts and experience are brought to bear on a subject.

 

Celebrity: Give this person an immediate raise or promotion to cruise communications specialist First Class!

Edited August 2, 2014 by OBX-Cruisers

[cle-guy]

It makes sense to anyone involved in hr and costing.

 

Any business knows there's a lot more to employee cost than just "wages."

 

Even moreso in this case where the employees are provided with board, food and transport, the latter being an obvious cost rising as many complain here, and food also causing complaints.

 

And as said by the previous poster that is just some of the other costs involved.

 

Basing an argument on whether there is only a wage cost doesn't stack up.

 

The ancillary costs related to ship side staff are insignificant.

• Meals is buffet food like we eat, they aren't getting filet and lobster
  
• transport, Crusie lines work "interline" rates with airlines and pay far less than you and I do to transport their staff, as they also allow airline crew to travel at fares on ships at far lower rates that you and I do
  
• Board, the cabins are there, so if they are occupied or not, it's a sunk cost. In fact as I have suggested, if they have cut staff turn them to revenue generating cabins, earning over $200 k per cabin per year.
  
• Benefits, ship side non managerial staff don't get them, no retirement, no medical insurance etc. They see the ship doctor and have typical worker's compensation type coverage for on the job injuries. So if not hurt, no medical costs.
  

 

The per person savings of the food may be $10 per day, $3500 per year. Travel costs may be $400 per flight, 4 flights a year, $1600. $5000 saved. immaterial really. I don't really think the actual realized crew cost of meals is $10 a day, and if only a few people were left go, the savings would be insignificant based on a buffet style dining experience. That they don't segregate crew meal costs makes it likely its an immaterial number to them as well.

[richsea]

Reduced staffing.....a myth?. I guess what it boils down to is that it is what you want it to be.

[jan-n-john]

It makes sense to anyone involved in hr and costing.

 

Any business knows there's a lot more to employee cost than just "wages."

 

Even moreso in this case where the employees are provided with board, food and transport, the latter being an obvious cost rising as many complain here, and food also causing complaints.

 

And as said by the previous poster that is just some of the other costs involved.

 

Basing an argument on whether there is only a wage cost doesn't stack up.

You are using a straw man argument. Contrary to what you say, I never said it was only wage cost. That's your assertion not mine. The category is "payroll and related." Related covers the other categories you are mentioning (except food which is separate), and I never said or implied otherwise.

[phoenix_dream]

The ancillary costs related to ship side staff are insignificant.

• Meals is buffet food like we eat, they aren't getting filet and lobster
  
• transport, Crusie lines work "interline" rates with airlines and pay far less than you and I do to transport their staff, as they also allow airline crew to travel at fares on ships at far lower rates that you and I do
  
• Board, the cabins are there, so if they are occupied or not, it's a sunk cost. In fact as I have suggested, if they have cut staff turn them to revenue generating cabins, earning over $200 k per cabin per year.
  
• Benefits, ship side non managerial staff don't get them, no retirement, no medical insurance etc. They see the ship doctor and have typical worker's compensation type coverage for on the job injuries. So if not hurt, no medical costs.
  

 

 

As has been stated, the crew cabins are in areas of the ship not appropriate to open up to passengers, certainly not without major renovations and redesign (and I mean of the entire floors, not just the cabins in question). Point one is obvious, but I am curious where you are getting your information on the other two comments? Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where you got this information? Considering the distance of some of the flights, I find it hard to believe that even with some kind of bulk discount they are as low cost as you suggest.

 

I am also curious about your workers compensation comment. Are you saying that since RCI is based in Miami, they are all subject to Florida work comp rules? That is not how work comp works. I do not know for a fact that they are not covered, but doubt that they are based on my 30 years in the commercial insurance industry. But admit I have never dealt with this particular situation - wondering again where you got that info as I am curious.

[jan-n-john]

All too often, the cruising public makes assumptions about how the cruise industry really works.

Usually those assumptions are completely wrong.

And we know what happens when we ASS/U/ME something.

 

To understand why a cruise line does anything, you need to look for the money trail.

Sometimes simple to follow; sometimes not.

 

Employing a tipped service employee on a mass market cruise ship costs the company just under US$14 per day. That's total; salary, housing, medical, uniforms, food, training, administration, and transportation. That's not very much money, you say. At those rates the cruise lines should have far more service staff onboard to make our cruise a bigger success.

 

Great idea - until you try to implement it.

 

Cruise ships rarely suffer from money shortages - but we do struggle with space. Cruise ships never have enough space to do what we want / need to do.

Regardless of the size of the ship, there are legal and physical limits to the number of bodies the ship can accommodate.

The cruise line needs to decide in advance how many service crew (costing $14 per day) they can hold, versus how many passengers (paying $150 per day) they can hold.

 

The more crew you have to house, the fewer paying passengers you will have onboard.

 

When cruise lines build new ships, we always build just enough crew cabins for the number of crew we need NOW. We always know - and have always known - that as the ship ages and the cruise industry develops, we will need to place more crew onboard. But we never plan for that eventuality. It is far cheaper build a ship with fewer crew cabins and facilities, and more profitable to have more passenger cabins instead.

 

Then comes the time when we are forced to add new crew positions. The Coast Guard requires additional Bridge Officers for safety reasons. The EPA requires additional Sanitation Engineers for managing our waste streams. Corporate Onboard Revenue adds an Acupuncturist, a Tooth Whitener, a high end Black and White photographer, an onboard Gemologist, a Computer Trainer, Personal Trainers, a Librarian. Corporate Entertainment adds more performers. All of these people are guaranteed single cabins. But there are no empty crew beds or cabins for them to sleep in.

 

Corporate Sales and Marketing will ABSOLUTELY NOT give up a single passenger cabin for any use that does not involve a paid fare.

There is no additional space available to build additional crew cabins. There is also no budget. In some cases, it is not even legal to add more crew cabins

 

What do we do? These new crew MUST be accommodated.

 

No problem. We send home 2 waiters living in a shared cabin and convert it to a single cabin for the new crew. Then we send home 2 wine stewards and do the same with their cabin. Then we send home 2 stateroom stewards and convert their cabin. We keep doing that until we have enough cabins for the required crew.

These service staff we sent home are not legally required onboard - and in many cases they do not directly generate revenues or profits.

 

Over the past decade my ship has received over 50 additional new crew. But the actual crew count on my ship has actually gone down. There is no place for anyone else to sleep.

 

Next time you start wishing for a cheaper cruise, be aware that the cruise lines are listening. But be careful what you wish for.

 

Thank you Bruce for shining considerable light on the topic of this thread. So it would be great if you could help us go a bit further and get straight to the heart of the matter.

 

Ballpark numbers. What is the typical service staff head count today on a typical Celebrity ship (M or S), and what was that head count say, 3 or 5 years ago? How many service staff positions have been lost, and how does that number stack up percentage wise against the total? Is the reduction 1%, 5%, 20% or what? Again, not asking for exact numbers, just order of magnitude, in order to better understand and put things in context.

Edited August 2, 2014 by jan-n-john

[cle-guy]

As has been stated, the crew cabins are in areas of the ship not appropriate to open up to passengers, certainly not without major renovations and redesign (and I mean of the entire floors, not just the cabins in question). Point one is obvious, but I am curious where you are getting your information on the other two comments? Not saying you are wrong, just wondering where you got this information? Considering the distance of some of the flights, I find it hard to believe that even with some kind of bulk discount they are as low cost as you suggest.

 

I am also curious about your workers compensation comment. Are you saying that since RCI is based in Miami, they are all subject to Florida work comp rules? That is not how work comp works. I do not know for a fact that they are not covered, but doubt that they are based on my 30 years in the commercial insurance industry. But admit I have never dealt with this particular situation - wondering again where you got that info as I am curious.

 

As I discussed in an earlier post, crew cabins are not all only on the bottom decks of the ship, there are cabins scattered about. There are at least 10 cabins around the bridge area on whatever deck the bridge is on , forward that can easily be modified by simply moving the crew aces door wall panel bak and decorating the hallway space. I'm not talking hundreds of cabins, we're likely talking 8 or so. However the one poster mentioned adding positions means sometimes making cabins singles or displacing other star members, A good point I had not considered. However that is offset by the other poster who tracked actual ship-side positions that have increased each year even adjusted for new ships. Overall capacity is controlled by authorities, but there is so much room ships rarely (if ever) actually reach the coast guard approved capacity. So as they have the ability to make some double cabins singles for some newly contracted posits, they can also make cabins quads with double bunk beds like in college dormitories (mine anyway was) for other bottom tiered positions if they wanted to without approaching overcapacity.

 

Interline rates, I get from several friends who are flight attendants. They always wait till last minute to get open cabins at the greatly reduced interline rates. I've worked in Hospitality and accommodated FA's in hotels as well and discussed such things.

 

Workers' Comp, I dont necessarily mean actually remitting to a US based worker's comp policy. I really just mean I am sure if a crew member gets hurt while working they will be cared for, paid out by some insurance coverage, or directly form the line's pockets. This is of course an assumption, but I don't think they will just toss them aside at the next port ;) Frankly I never understand if ships are held to business standards from Florida or whatever country they are flagged out of, Celebrity is flagged out of Malta.

[Gracie115]

All too often, the cruising public makes assumptions about how the cruise industry really works.

Usually those assumptions are completely wrong.

And we know what happens when we ASS/U/ME something.

 

To understand why a cruise line does anything, you need to look for the money trail.

Sometimes simple to follow; sometimes not.

 

Employing a tipped service employee on a mass market cruise ship costs the company just under US$14 per day. That's total; salary, housing, medical, uniforms, food, training, administration, and transportation. That's not very much money, you say. At those rates the cruise lines should have far more service staff onboard to make our cruise a bigger success.

 

Great idea - until you try to implement it.

 

Cruise ships rarely suffer from money shortages - but we do struggle with space. Cruise ships never have enough space to do what we want / need to do.

Regardless of the size of the ship, there are legal and physical limits to the number of bodies the ship can accommodate.

The cruise line needs to decide in advance how many service crew (costing $14 per day) they can hold, versus how many passengers (paying $150 per day) they can hold.

 

The more crew you have to house, the fewer paying passengers you will have onboard.

 

When cruise lines build new ships, we always build just enough crew cabins for the number of crew we need NOW. We always know - and have always known - that as the ship ages and the cruise industry develops, we will need to place more crew onboard. But we never plan for that eventuality. It is far cheaper build a ship with fewer crew cabins and facilities, and more profitable to have more passenger cabins instead.

 

Then comes the time when we are forced to add new crew positions. The Coast Guard requires additional Bridge Officers for safety reasons. The EPA requires additional Sanitation Engineers for managing our waste streams. Corporate Onboard Revenue adds an Acupuncturist, a Tooth Whitener, a high end Black and White photographer, an onboard Gemologist, a Computer Trainer, Personal Trainers, a Librarian. Corporate Entertainment adds more performers. All of these people are guaranteed single cabins. But there are no empty crew beds or cabins for them to sleep in.

 

Corporate Sales and Marketing will ABSOLUTELY NOT give up a single passenger cabin for any use that does not involve a paid fare.

There is no additional space available to build additional crew cabins. There is also no budget. In some cases, it is not even legal to add more crew cabins

 

What do we do? These new crew MUST be accommodated.

 

No problem. We send home 2 waiters living in a shared cabin and convert it to a single cabin for the new crew. Then we send home 2 wine stewards and do the same with their cabin. Then we send home 2 stateroom stewards and convert their cabin. We keep doing that until we have enough cabins for the required crew.

These service staff we sent home are not legally required onboard - and in many cases they do not directly generate revenues or profits.

 

Over the past decade my ship has received over 50 additional new crew. But the actual crew count on my ship has actually gone down. There is no place for anyone else to sleep.

 

Next time you start wishing for a cheaper cruise, be aware that the cruise lines are listening. But be careful what you wish for.

 

Just reposting your remarks again for those who didn't see it. Makes more sense then ANYTHING else ANYONE has said on this thread. Thank you the first hand knowledge you passed on.

[phoenix_dream]

That's very interesting about the interline rates. And disconcerting as well. In the end it is all of the rest of us who are paying for such bargains for them. It would be interesting to know how it really worked for crew member flights. To the best of my knowledge based on many years of discussion with various crew we became close to during travel, it seems that their flights are booked well ahead of time, and not necessarily last minute 'catch the bargain' type of situation, as they must be in sync with their arrival in their last port of call. Could be an arrangement worked out between the cruise lines and the airlines. Would be interesting to hear about some of this stuff from former crew members, or friends/family of current crew members.

[cle-guy]

That's very interesting about the interline rates. And disconcerting as well. In the end it is all of the rest of us who are paying for such bargains for them.

 

Any successful business builds "symbiotic" relationships with other businesses they can provide mutually beneficial goods and services for.

 

Airlines know certain days and periods of the year they fly with empty seats historically and can try to fill those flights with cruise ships and other passengers.

By sharing this data with their travel partners, like cruise lines, they can coordinate travel well in advance, providing "open tickets' without naming passengers, like how some travel agents buy bulk lots of cabins on ships, at lower fares (which as you say, could be disconcerting that we are paying for their bargains...) and sell at discounts versus what I'd buy for directly at the X website.

 

Customers and companies that have lots of travelers get special negotiated contract rates with airlines. Even my small company has a frequent traveler program where United provides me points for all travelers who travel, and at some point they give me free tickets after so much revenue generated for the airline.

[cle-guy]

Just reposting your remarks again for those who didn't see it.

 

It is quite helpful for you to repost a post that is only 8 posts back in the thread. :confused:

 

Do you have any actual facts (not anecdotal experience, Looking for facts and figures) to share that relates to the thread, which is the overall purpose of this thread?

[jan-n-john]

That's very interesting about the interline rates. And disconcerting as well. In the end it is all of the rest of us who are paying for such bargains for them. It would be interesting to know how it really worked for crew member flights. To the best of my knowledge based on many years of discussion with various crew we became close to during travel, it seems that their flights are booked well ahead of time, and not necessarily last minute 'catch the bargain' type of situation, as they must be in sync with their arrival in their last port of call. Could be an arrangement worked out between the cruise lines and the airlines. Would be interesting to hear about some of this stuff from former crew members, or friends/family of current crew members.

 

I can tell you this. Ship crew travel is a big revenue area for international airlines in general, and most of such travel, at least in the old days, was not for cruise ships but for cargo vessels (today there are relatively fewer cargo vessels/crew members and more cruise vessels, so I don't know what the current situation is). In the old days those guys had union agreements that got them first class seats -- I'm sure there were discounts, but not to the extent of interline discounts.

 

You're correct that crew needs to be in place when needed so less reliance can be placed on last minute bookings, all the more so due to the much higher load factors in today's aviation.

 

Without going into a long discussion of rate making theory (I was a transportation economist once upon a time), I wouldn't worry that "you are paying for their travel." Airlines are good at maximizing revenue, and if they are "giving seats away" they are getting it back somewhere along the way, and not from your pocket.

Edited August 2, 2014 by jan-n-john

[Gracie115]

It is quite helpful for you to repost a post that is only 8 posts back in the thread. :confused:

 

Do you have any actual facts (not anecdotal experience, Looking for facts and figures) to share that relates to the thread, which is the overall purpose of this thread?

 

The point is that straight out numbers don't tell the whole tale. It was nice to hear from someone who actually works in the industry and has firsthand knowledge.

 

And as far as workmen's comp is concerned which you stated, correctly, covers a shipboard employee, here is a link to how they are covered:

 

http://www.maritimelawfirms.com/resources/maritime/maritime-workers-compensation/compensation-cruise-ship-employee-injuries.htm

Edited August 2, 2014 by Gracie115

[The_Big_M]

The ancillary costs related to ship side staff are insignificant.

 

So says you.

 

The beancounters at RCL who found the cost of a chocolate at bed exorbitant, amongst other things, don't agree.

[shipshape sam]

So says you.

 

The beancounters at RCL who found the cost of a chocolate at bed exorbitant, amongst other things, don't agree.

 

I would agree. If they can save $$$ there, it makes their task of cut cutting easier and did not eliminate a person.

[The_Big_M]

You are using a straw man argument. Contrary to what you say, I never said it was only wage cost. That's your assertion not mine. The category is "payroll and related." Related covers the other categories you are mentioning (except food which is separate), and I never said or implied otherwise.

 

Wow, you're stretching now.

 

My first response in this thread was to say there was more to it than said in the OP of just wage costs.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=43583555&postcount=49

 

It is also more than the salary or wages. Every employee gets medical, food, uniforms, insurance, cabin space and I think transportation to and from their home. There is also the cost of accounting involved to handle thier pay, paperwork, records, and etc.

 

Plus every person on board also uses utilities, and things that require disposal. Everything adds up.

 

..

 

Spot on miched.

 

The analysis disregarded that.

 

For some reason you found that objectionable and argued against it, by creating a straw man of your own, referring to the numbers when I hadn't commented on that.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=43583678&postcount=52

 

And since then you've chosen to try to argue the quite obvious point that it's more than wage cost - and now try to claim that I created a straw man about wages, when that's been the point being discussed!

 

My original post, and those since have been referring to the OP's claim about wages.

[NLH Arizona]

I would agree. If they can save $$$ there, it makes their task of cut cutting easier and did not eliminate a person.

Like!

[jan-n-john]

The point is that straight out numbers don't tell the whole tale. It was nice to hear from someone who actually works in the industry and has firsthand knowledge.

 

And as far as workmen's comp is concerned which you stated, correctly, covers a shipboard employee, here is a link to how they are covered:

 

http://www.maritimelawfirms.com/resources/maritime/maritime-workers-compensation/compensation-cruise-ship-employee-injuries.htm

 

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. You have to be careful about what things say. While US law does affect today's cruise industry operations in some areas, it does not generally extend to labor laws. US labor laws would cover workers on a US flag cruise ship, but as everyone knows there is no such thing on the high seas, and labor cost is an important if not the main reason. Unless I am missing something, there is no (US) workmans comp for non-US citizen employees on foreign-flagged cruise vessels, which all of them in international service are. They do have the right to sue in US courts, however, at least in some cases, although even that may be changed.

Edited August 2, 2014 by jan-n-john

[Gracie115]

Unfortunately it isn't that simple. You have to be careful about what things say. While US law does affect today's cruise industry operations in some areas, it does not extend to labor laws. US labor laws would cover workers on a US flag cruise ship, but as everyone knows there is no such thing on the high seas, and labor cost is an important if not the main reason. Unless I am missing something, there is no (US) workmans comp for employees on foreign-flagged cruise vessels, which all of them are.

 

I honestly don't know whether they are covered but suspect they are.

I know that a stateroom attendant we had years ago slipped and cut themselves bad enough to require stitches. When I asked him about his injury he advised that the med staff on the ship takes care of those kinds of things.

 

Now whether or not they would cover and continue to pay wages for a more long term, serious injury...who knows?

Edited August 2, 2014 by Gracie115

[shipshape sam]

As a general comment, smart companies are always reviewing their product/service offerings to ensure that they are providing the benefit they were intended to provide.

 

When I was running my company, we would annually look at all functions to see if what we were doing/providing was still of value to our customer, both external and internal. We did the above in conjunction with feedback from our external and internal customers. Then if there was an area we needed to change for the better, if possible or if there was something we considered eliminating, we would do some focused feedback groups. Based on that we improved our offering or in cases where the offering was not of sufficient perceived/real value, we eliminated the product/service. Never was it clean in that 100% of the effected persons being happy, but it was always clear that most people did not 'value' the offering as it was, thus we needed to change/improve it or in the case of elimination, it was not perceived as of sufficient value to justify the cost.

 

With cruise lines catering to many new demographics of passengers, it would seem easier to make a lot of changes as many of them would not even know of a change. AND many changes could actually be better and cost more to the company, but they also would get the higher value of the perceive/actual benefit that the passenger has of the new offering.

 

The times they are a changing and very few things stay the same including us and our likes/dislikes. We used to try to do all kinds of activities/events while onboard. Now we are very much more low keyed and do very little of the formal/scheduled events on cruises, thus we have changed and our value system of the various features and benefits are now much different than when we first sailed in 1998.

Edited August 2, 2014 by shipshape sam

[jan-n-john]

I honestly don't know whether they are covered but suspect they are.

I know that a stateroom attendant we had years ago slipped and cut themselves bad enough to require stitches. When I asked him about his injury he advised that the med staff on the ship takes care of those kinds of things.

 

Now whether or not they would cover and continue to pay wages for a more long term, serious injury...who knows?

 

I'm sorry, but you suspect wrong. Non US citizen crew working on a non-US flagged vessel are not covered by workmans comp.

 

The fact that the med staff would attend to a crewman's injury I should think would go without saying. That's one of the reasons they're there. But that has nothing to do with US workmans comp law.

 

In the case of a serious injury, the crew person does have recourse to US courts under current law. But that is a whole 'nother ballgame.

[NLH Arizona]

The point is that straight out numbers don't tell the whole tale. It was nice to hear from someone who actually works in the industry and has firsthand knowledge.

 

And as far as workmen's comp is concerned which you stated, correctly, covers a shipboard employee, here is a link to how they are covered:

 

http://www.maritimelawfirms.com/resources/maritime/maritime-workers-compensation/compensation-cruise-ship-employee-injuries.htm

Am I wrong, isn't the link just a company trying to get some lawsuits going and couldn't they be putting this information in there to try to lure clients in.