How Does RCI Treat Their Employees?

[leaveitallbehind]

I can add limited comments related to staff positions only. I also agree that their compensation, associated benefits, or how it is comprised or compares to global standards is not our concern. It remains a personal choice of employment.

 

Contract lengths can vary depending on position. For instance some staff positions are 4 months on, 2 months off, whereas Captains are 10 weeks on, 10 weeks off. Contracts typically are signed for the next cycle at the end of the current one. Ship preferences can be requested if a change in ships is desired and are filled by position availability and seniority. RCI can also request a staff transfer if there is a need or preference on another ship.

 

It is an international employment community with what seems to be a rather limited US representation in many on board positions, but US representation seems to be more common with the entertainers, children’s programs staff, and some service staff positions.

 

There are separate quarters, dining, lounges, outdoor areas, and entertainment facilities for staff and crew on board. These are also apart from any passenger area.

 

General crew employment arrangements and programs will differ in detail from this but will follow the same general contract concept with time on board followed by time off.

 

As others have said overall the program must be perceived as favorable as there are many long term employees on board their ships. It clearly is a different industry from most but it must be attractive to the many people who choose to pursue it.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[mark290]

I see nothing wrong with being curious about the amount the cruise staff earns. We are constantly told how they count on us for the majority of their earnings. If I participate in paying someone their compensation I think I can be curious about what they earn. Nobody has to share that information with me but I can be curious and interested in it.

[dorisis]

I think e-mail and skype have made a difference. Less homesick employees. Phome card also help.

[leaveitallbehind]

I see nothing wrong with being curious about the amount the cruise staff earns. We are constantly told how they count on us for the majority of their earnings. If I participate in paying someone their compensation I think I can be curious about what they earn. Nobody has to share that information with me but I can be curious and interested in it.

 

As with any business, the money received from their customers pays everyone in the company, so we all participate in every employee's compensation with every business dealing we make. :)

 

But to your point, if you are referring to the service crew that earns part of their compensation through gratuity payments, the break down of that is no secret and is published by RCI. Easily shared.

 

For every standard stateroom per person per day gratuity of $12.00, it is split as follows:

 

Dining Services - $6.80

Stateroom Attendant - $3.85

Other Housekeeping Personnel - $1.35

 

With the suite gratuity of $14.25, the extra $2.25 goes to the Suite Attendant for their total of $6.10.

 

While curiosity is natural and I find no fault in that, I just don't think that further details regarding base hourly or salary rates, etc., is information of concern - to me at least.

 

Edited to add: Drink purchases include a 15% gratuity in the bill for the bartenders. The Concierge's and bartenders in the Concierge and Diamond Lounges are not included in the gratuities and should be tipped separately. Also part of the surcharge for the specialty restaurants includes the gratuity for that service staff. Overnight room service would also be an optional gratuity.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[TBone2K]

Oh please, don't let this turn into a tip thread.

 

I'll add a bit of info from my own experience: On Vision, we happened to start talking to one of the officers during the walk for wishes and it turned out she was the only Canadian on board. She was the head of accounting for the ship. I think her "rank" was two and half stripes.

 

During a "backstage" tour, the stage manager happened to mention that the crew who don't interact with the guests as part of their daily duties are still allowed into the guest areas based on their "rank".

[leaveitallbehind]

Oh please, don't let this turn into a tip thread.

 

I agree completely. I was only responding to the posted comment with information published by RCI. But the OP's theme has raised that question directly and hopefully the factual information as provided by RCI will address it.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[kwazi07]

On a recent Enchantment cruise, we struck up conversation with many cruise members about ship life. Most commented about the working period (7 months followed by 3 months of vacation), but one was very interesting. A Chinese waitress at the Windjammer complained that she hated her job and that she wanted to move back to China. Honestly, I dotn know why she was complaining. Many crew members come from places like China or Bangladesh have it better than they would in their home country. On the ship, they have a place to sleep, 3 meals, and most importantly, workers rights. In their home countries, they would work in very dangerous conditions with chemical fumes.

[Cindy]

Thanks for all the insight.

 

I really didn't expect someone to post exacting figures like, "A waiter makes $215.93 a week plus tips" or "housekeeping personnel make $301.44 per week". I guess what I wonder is if the money they make working on the cruise ship is comparable or better to work they might do in their own native country. And I also wonder if a percentage of them work on a cruise for the adventure, or if it isn't really considered an adventure at all.

 

 

I have met several crew members over the years, particularly in the food/beverage departments who eventually hope to return home and open their own restaurants/bars/hotels. They thought their jobs were great training in the industry, and a way to make money while they were learning.

[chengkp75]

On a recent Enchantment cruise, we struck up conversation with many cruise members about ship life. Most commented about the working period (7 months followed by 3 months of vacation), but one was very interesting. A Chinese waitress at the Windjammer complained that she hated her job and that she wanted to move back to China. Honestly, I dotn know why she was complaining. Many crew members come from places like China or Bangladesh have it better than they would in their home country. On the ship, they have a place to sleep, 3 meals, and most importantly, workers rights. In their home countries, they would work in very dangerous conditions with chemical fumes.

 

You are correct, as I've said, that most workers make more on the ships than they could at home, but I'm not sure what you are referring to by "worker's rights". It is only in the last 3 years or so that the IMO has moved to improve the lot of seafarers, implementing the Manila Labor Convention of 2006, which addresses very basic rights of the seafarer like minimum wage, repatriation, etc. However, it is up to the flag state of the ship (Bahamas or Panama) to determine what those minimums are, and to enforce them. There is no grievance procedure, no equal opportunity clauses, and no health care or workplace safety standards. Just because RCI operates out of the US does not mean that their workforce is covered by US labor laws.

[leaveitallbehind]

A Chinese waitress at the Windjammer complained that she hated her job and that she wanted to move back to China. Honestly, I dotn know why she was complaining. Many crew members come from places like China or Bangladesh have it better than they would in their home country. On the ship, they have a place to sleep, 3 meals, and most importantly, workers rights. In their home countries, they would work in very dangerous conditions with chemical fumes.

 

Maybe she just doesn't like what she does anymore or misses her family. And have you been to China? I have had extensive work experience directly with China based manufacturers over the years and not sure I would agree with your comments.

 

While there is terrible smog north in the Shanghai region in particular, most people have a nice home and place to sleep, 3 meals and more, and are compensated quite well in my experience by local standards to the extent that an entire new middle class of very well educated people has risen to support what is now one of the worlds strongest economic regions.

 

Not saying that there aren't issues with pollution and imperfect working conditions, but it is not as you represent. Can't comment on Bangladesh from direct experience but that general region of the globe is also beginning to see a fairly strong focus with economic growth.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[nana541]

I have a friend that worked for Royal for 15 years. He LOVED it! He only didn't renew his contract because he wanted to be home with an ailing parent.

 

 

I have a niece and nephew who worked 6 contracts for RCCL as entertainers. They held the position of lead singers/dancer for the time on board and loved it! Though as a married couple they shared the same cabin and I can't imagine any woman living with my nephew in such a small space :)

 

They traveled all over the world and loved it and loved RCCL. My nephew was even allowed a mid contract leave to perform on NBC's Sing Off during their last contract.

 

As a family we had the joy of traveling with them on one of their final sailings (sorry no discount for us) and enjoy their performances and getting to know the other members of their great cast. Lots of fun !!

 

They had a lot of admiration for the hard working crew members.

 

The entertainers seemed to be mostly from the US and UK. And are paid completely different from the other staff onboard (not tipped or part of any tip pool).

 

PS they left due to wanting to further their professional singing careers, and today they are very successfully doing just that!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

Edited August 20, 2014 by nana541

[kwazi07]

Maybe she just doesn't like what she does anymore or misses her family. And have you been to China? I have had extensive work experience directly with China based manufacturers over the years and not sure I would agree with your comments.

 

While there is terrible smog north in the Shanghai region in particular, most people have a nice home and place to sleep, 3 meals and more, and are compensated quite well in my experience by local standards to the extent that an entire new middle class of very well educated people has risen to support what is now one of the worlds strongest economic regions.

 

Not saying that there aren't issues with pollution and imperfect working conditions, but it is not as you represent. Can't comment on Bangladesh from direct experience but that general region of the globe is also beginning to see a fairly strong focus with economic growth.

 

You bring up some very valid points...however is it likely that she would get a business job? If she does, that would be MUCH better than on a ship. However, what about factory workers?! So much stuff is made in China. Look at anything in your home and it is probably made in Asia, if not China. How do you get these things cheaply? With cheap labor. But this is not a discussion for these boards :)

[kwazi07]

You are correct, as I've said, that most workers make more on the ships than they could at home, but I'm not sure what you are referring to by "worker's rights". It is only in the last 3 years or so that the IMO has moved to improve the lot of seafarers, implementing the Manila Labor Convention of 2006, which addresses very basic rights of the seafarer like minimum wage, repatriation, etc. However, it is up to the flag state of the ship (Bahamas or Panama) to determine what those minimums are, and to enforce them. There is no grievance procedure, no equal opportunity clauses, and no health care or workplace safety standards. Just because RCI operates out of the US does not mean that their workforce is covered by US labor laws.

True, true. But at least there are rules.

[bighairtexan]

One of the reasons you'll see almost NO ships registered in the US is so they don't have to abide by US minimum wage laws. Their actual SALARY is staggeringly low. For much of the crew (especially dining and housekeeping crew) the bulk of their income is thru gratuities. And compared to many of their home countries, their income makes offers their families a comfortable living. I won't say that this is the case w/ RCI but some cruise lines send reps to various countries (if they don't have a full time presence) to interview potential crew. And potential job candidates are EXTREMELY anxious to get the interviews. And then they try to get interviews for their brothers, sisters, cousins etc. There was even a scandal a bit back where there was a "middle man" who, for a fee, promised to arrange an interview. THIS WAS NOT AN AUTHORIZED cruise line employee at all. What he was doing was unethical and no sanctioned, but it shows how much some of the people wanted to score that interview.

 

So many of the workers have been on the ship for 5, 10, even 20 years that either the working conditions, the income or both is very appealing. But it's NOT the monthly contracted salary for most of the lower level crew (as opposed to staff and officers.)

[leaveitallbehind]

You bring up some very valid points...however is it likely that she would get a business job? If she does, that would be MUCH better than on a ship. However, what about factory workers?! So much stuff is made in China. Look at anything in your home and it is probably made in Asia, if not China. How do you get these things cheaply? With cheap labor. But this is not a discussion for these boards :)

 

No one knows the reasons that brought the crew member to which you refer to RCI, but she very likely could qualify for any number of jobs in China that may well be "a business job". But to your point, it was the general factory workers, not just the higher qualified positions, that I was referencing in my prior post.

 

"Cheap labor" by US standards, perhaps, but fair waged in the Pacific Rim economy. Especially compared to the scale of living prior to the China economic boom. Your point of view IMO is anecdotal and not likely based on the direct knowledge that is my experience in my business dealings with China.

 

But you are right, this is not a topic for these boards. However you were the one who raised the issue. I'm simply trying to put a more balanced view towards it based on direct experience.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[TheDivineMrsM]

Would another reason for ships not to be registered in the USA be to avoid taxes? Out bus driver in Nassau said everyone in the Bahamas, regardless of income, big or small, only pays 1% income tax. So are the cruise lines cashing in on this kind of tax base?

Edited August 20, 2014 by TheDivineMrsM

[kwazi07]

I'm simply trying to put a more balanced view towards it based on direct experience.

 

I completely understand and you demonstrated that you know more than I do on the topic :)

[leaveitallbehind]

Would another reason for ships not to be registered in the USA be to avoid taxes? Out bus driver in Nassau said everyone in the Bahamas, regardless of income, big or small, only pays 1% income tax. So are the cruise lines cashing in on this kind of tax base?

 

What you are referring to is the "flag of convenience", which is a common practice by many ship owners and companies to take advantage of a number of things including different or more favorable certifications with equipment, vessel registration guidelines, environmental policies, ability to hire international crews with favorable wage policies, and as you mention, business tax protection (although I don't know at what specific levels), and other factors.

 

Many countries including Liberia, Panama, the Bahamas, and others are commonly used as the country for the flag of convenience. There is not necessarily anything underhanded or devious with this, but it is a commonly accepted business practice for ships operating internationally.

 

I'm sure others can offer more detail and perhaps better accuracy with this information as my knowledge about this is limited.

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[TEXASMUNK]

1. 99.9% of the folks on these boards would never cruise if the salaries paid were based solely on the US standard of living.

2. The good folks who toil on cruise ships have made a personal decision to work away from home for extended periods of time.

3. I have no clue but would venture to guess that more than 50% of a cruise lines ship employees are on a second, third or more contract and thus the decision they made to work on a ship is validated by their return.

Much of the income earned by the crew that has customer interface is based on the quality of those interactions, ie, tips.

 

Now for my editorial:

May your life suck and everything you do be a failure is you are one of those that makes excuses and stiffs the staff!!!!!!

[chengkp75]

What you are referring to is the "flag of convenience", which is a common practice by many ship owners and companies to take advantage of a number of things including different or more favorable certifications with equipment, vessel registration guidelines, environmental policies, ability to hire international crews with favorable wage policies, and as you mention, business tax protection (although I don't know at what specific levels), and other factors.

 

Many countries including Liberia, Panama, the Bahamas, and others are commonly used as the country for the flag of convenience. There is not necessarily anything underhanded or devious with this, but it is a commonly accepted business practice for ships operating internationally.

 

I'm sure others can offer more detail and perhaps better accuracy with this information as my knowledge about this is limited.

 

I'll help you out here, Leaveitall;

 

The cruise lines avoid US taxes by being incorporated in foreign countries, even though their headquarters are in the US.

 

Flag of convenience countries like the Bahamas and Panama only require their ships to meet IMO safety, management, and personnel policies, and are tasked with enforcing these. Most FOC ships rarely see a representative of their flag state's maritime agency, and rely on third parties like the classification societies (insurance underwriters) to make safety inspections for them. Even though the ships "home port" in the US, the USCG can only enforce the less stringent IMO SOLAS safety regulations, not the more stringent USCG regulations that US flag ships must meet.

 

USCG regulations require that anyone onboard a ship that is assigned an emergency duty must be a credentialed merchant mariner. FOC ships do not meet this standard, and only the deck and engine departments are manned by mariners. This allows the lines to hire "off the street". Look at the problems that NCL had with their US flag Hawaiian based ships. Everyone from the Captain to the dishwasher had to have a USCG merchant mariner's credential, and this requires an FBI background check, various safety training before hiring, and usually cost NCL about $10,000 per crewmember, BEFORE THEY EVEN SET FOOT ON THE SHIP. And then when that crewmember quits, there is not another dishwasher with a merchant mariner's credential waiting for the job, while one call to a Manila crewing agency can have a dishwasher on the next plane.

 

The stringency of USCG regulations and the US labor laws are what set NCL's fare structure for these ships, and when the foreign flag ships moved to increase their share of the Hawaiian market, caused NCL to lose $178 million in 2008, just on the Hawaiian operation.

 

As Leaveitall says, there is nothing underhanded about this, but it does leave US citizens without all of the protections that they expect, since the ship is not US territory, but that of a foreign country. It is a way for ship owners to save money, and increase their profit, which is what business is all about.

[leaveitallbehind]

I'll help you out here, Leaveitall;

 

The cruise lines avoid US taxes by being incorporated in foreign countries, even though their headquarters are in the US.

 

Flag of convenience countries like the Bahamas and Panama only require their ships to meet IMO safety, management, and personnel policies, and are tasked with enforcing these. Most FOC ships rarely see a representative of their flag state's maritime agency, and rely on third parties like the classification societies (insurance underwriters) to make safety inspections for them. Even though the ships "home port" in the US, the USCG can only enforce the less stringent IMO SOLAS safety regulations, not the more stringent USCG regulations that US flag ships must meet.

 

USCG regulations require that anyone onboard a ship that is assigned an emergency duty must be a credentialed merchant mariner. FOC ships do not meet this standard, and only the deck and engine departments are manned by mariners. This allows the lines to hire "off the street". Look at the problems that NCL had with their US flag Hawaiian based ships. Everyone from the Captain to the dishwasher had to have a USCG merchant mariner's credential, and this requires an FBI background check, various safety training before hiring, and usually cost NCL about $10,000 per crewmember, BEFORE THEY EVEN SET FOOT ON THE SHIP. And then when that crewmember quits, there is not another dishwasher with a merchant mariner's credential waiting for the job, while one call to a Manila crewing agency can have a dishwasher on the next plane.

 

The stringency of USCG regulations and the US labor laws are what set NCL's fare structure for these ships, and when the foreign flag ships moved to increase their share of the Hawaiian market, caused NCL to lose $178 million in 2008, just on the Hawaiian operation.

 

As Leaveitall says, there is nothing underhanded about this, but it does leave US citizens without all of the protections that they expect, since the ship is not US territory, but that of a foreign country. It is a way for ship owners to save money, and increase their profit, which is what business is all about.

 

Thanks chengkp75, you actually were exactly who I was thinking of with my comment regarding "others who could offer more detail"! Terrific information as always! :)

Edited August 20, 2014 by leaveitallbehind

[chengkp75]

Thanks chengkp75, you actually were exactly who I was thinking of with my comment regarding "others who could offer more detail"! Terrific information as always! :)

 

Glad to help, just got back from sea this week.

[Justmekaren918]

Another way to see is glassdoor. It is interesting reading. I qerried jobs and low and be hold they are looking for IT contractors.

[Clarea]

Glad to help, just got back from sea this week.

Welcome back, you have been missed here.

[Biker19]

Now for my editorial:

May your life suck and everything you do be a failure is you are one of those that makes excuses and stiffs the staff!!!!!!

 

May your life suck and you go bankrupt if you are one of those that spends too much on tipping the staff!!!!!!