Could this happen on =X=?

[NLH Arizona]

Honestly, this is just a stock answer when a reasoned argument can't be made. I went to the trouble of giving some facts about how many cruises I'd need to take to get those extra 10 nights free, but you haven't commented. 50 cruises. You are saying this makes up for the loss of internet and laundry. 50 cruises paying for laundry and 45% of the internet cost? Do the maths and let me know how your numbers crunched. If I feel that you are right and I am wrong then I will freely admit it.

 

Phil

I agree, it takes a lot to become Discover Platinum, just as it does to become Zenith on Celebrity. I'm not looking at just how to get to Discover Platinum, I'm looking at the overall program and that is what I based my opinion on and I still stand by it.

 

If you look at the other tiers. It would take someone 3 10 night cruises (30 days x 5 = 150) in a veranda to become Explorer (150 - 299 points) and they would get 2 comp nights, which would be worth approximately $600 to $800 dollars (guessing on the price, since the web didn't have them, but found one 10 night cruise that was less expensive than the others at $3,699, but I'm sure you realize the savings on the comp nights would be much, much higher). Someone needs only another 3 cruises (the difference between 150 and 300 points) to reach Discover (300 - 749) and they would receive 4 comp nights worth approximately $1,200 to $1,600. I would rather have the $600 to $800 when I become Explorer than get $200 in laundry and internet and the same goes for the Discover level. Of course, I have not taken into consider the onboard booking perks or the 10% discount on select cruises.

 

If my figures are off, please let me know, as I did this from my memory of reading the new program only once.

 

Again, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[richsea]

There must be a lot of greedy, ungrateful people over there on the Azamara boards because Andy's poll results show that 0 people like the changes, 193 do not like them,& 6 are unsure. Those 193 might be on to something, or maybe have not done the math.

[Ma Bell]

The problem that I have with these kind of changes is they are taking away something tangible that can't be played with. They are there on each cruise booked regardless of the fare that someone pays. They are fixed benefits.

 

With these new "benefits and rewards", they can pick and choose which cruises they will be offered on, target a certain demographic and manipulate the fares to cover the cost of these benefits placing them squarely on the consumer. It's the same thing with the drink packages and other "perks" they have come up with. I can't say I blame them as it seems most consumers don't seem to understand what's going on. The mistake they made with this announcement is they weren't subtle enough in their approach and a larger number of people figured this one out, although not everyone it seems.

[ECCruise]

The problem that I have with these kind of changes is they are taking away something tangible that can't be played with. They are there on each cruise booked regardless of the fare that someone pays. They are fixed benefits.

 

With these new "benefits and rewards", they can pick and choose which cruises they will be offered on, target a certain demographic and manipulate the fares to cover the cost of these benefits placing them squarely on the consumer. It's the same thing with the drink packages and other "perks" they have come up with. I can't say I blame them as it seems most consumers don't seem to understand what's going on. The mistake they made with this announcement is they weren't subtle enough in their approach and a larger number of people figured this one out, although not everyone it seems.

 

Every word right on target, Joanie!

[Jade13]

The problem that I have with these kind of changes is they are taking away something tangible that can't be played with. They are there on each cruise booked regardless of the fare that someone pays. They are fixed benefits.

 

With these new "benefits and rewards", they can pick and choose which cruises they will be offered on, target a certain demographic and manipulate the fares to cover the cost of these benefits placing them squarely on the consumer. It's the same thing with the drink packages and other "perks" they have come up with. I can't say I blame them as it seems most consumers don't seem to understand what's going on. The mistake they made with this announcement is they weren't subtle enough in their approach and a larger number of people figured this one out, although not everyone it seems.

 

Exactly!

 

And, I am still waiting for them to be honest and admit they are not turning a profit, and are trying to cut costs/find ways to add revenue. They know a lot of people need to be connected via the internet, and need clean clothes, although those who do not want to pay, won't and will find ways around it such as bringing more clothing onboard, or fighting to use the laundry room.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Jade13

[excitedofharpenden]

I agree, it takes a lot to become Discover Platinum, just as it does to become Zenith on Celebrity. I'm not looking at just how to get to Discover Platinum, I'm looking at the overall program and that is what I based my opinion on and I still stand by it.

 

If you look at the other tiers. It would take someone 3 10 night cruises (30 days x 5 = 150) in a veranda to become Explorer (150 - 299 points) and they would get 2 comp nights, which would be worth approximately $600 to $800 dollars (guessing on the price, since the web didn't have them, but found one 10 night cruise that was less expensive than the others at $3,699, but I'm sure you realize the savings on the comp nights would be much, much higher). Someone needs only another 3 cruises (the difference between 150 and 300 points) to reach Discover (300 - 749) and they would receive 4 comp nights worth approximately $1,200 to $1,600. I would rather have the $600 to $800 when I become Explorer than get $200 in laundry and internet and the same goes for the Discover level. Of course, I have not taken into consider the onboard booking perks or the 10% discount on select cruises.

 

If my figures are off, please let me know, as I did this from my memory of reading the new program only once.

 

Again, this is just my opinion, feel free to disagree.

For certain the people in the lower tiers will achieve their free nights more quickly. Indeed it's further complicated in terms of calculation because those further on in each tier will be able to get to the next level sooner. For cruisers in the higher tiers not near the top within their tier it could very well be out of sight and for cruisers already at the top in Discover Platinum, well they won't get any opportunity for free nights because they can't achieve a higher level. It's a very odd way to reward your most frequent cruisers. Other than spending something there are no other perks at all. However this is how Azamara's PR representative sold it on the Az board:

 

Look at it this way: you’ll be earning points toward free nights instead of free laundry or Internet minutes. Plus stateroom upgrades, savings on select voyages, and other new benefits. As a Le Club Voyage member, we never want you to question your value to us…or our desire to create value for you.

 

Best Wishes,

Azamara Club Cruises

 

It does make me shake my head. Oh and then there are the terms and conditions attached to these "enhancements". I won't copy and paste those because they would be too soporific!

 

Phil

Edited September 3, 2014 by excitedofharpenden

[excitedofharpenden]

The problem that I have with these kind of changes is they are taking away something tangible that can't be played with. They are there on each cruise booked regardless of the fare that someone pays. They are fixed benefits.

 

With these new "benefits and rewards", they can pick and choose which cruises they will be offered on, target a certain demographic and manipulate the fares to cover the cost of these benefits placing them squarely on the consumer. It's the same thing with the drink packages and other "perks" they have come up with. I can't say I blame them as it seems most consumers don't seem to understand what's going on. The mistake they made with this announcement is they weren't subtle enough in their approach and a larger number of people figured this one out, although not everyone it seems.

You just won a prize!

 

Phil

[NLH Arizona]

For certain the people in the lower tiers will achieve their free nights more quickly. Indeed it's further complicated in terms of calculation because those further on in each tier will be able to get to the next level sooner. For cruisers in the higher tiers not near the top within their tier it could very well be out of sight and for cruisers already at the top in Discover Platinum, well they won't get any opportunity for free nights because they can't achieve a higher level. It's a very odd way to reward your most frequent cruisers. Other than spending something there are no other perks at all. However this is how Azamara's PR representative sold it on the Az board:

 

It does make me shake my head. Oh and then there are the terms and conditions attached to these "enhancements". I won't copy and paste those because they would be too soporific!

 

Phil

I'm not sure when Azamara came into existence, but I'm guessing 7 or 8 years ago. If there are those that reached the top (or very close to it) tier sailing exclusively with Azamara, they must have been very, very generous with their points system or extremely low points for each tier.

 

You never know what will happen, they might just add in some perks to the top tier or even the second highest tier. They might add suite benefits, like Celebrity is doing, they might have bonus points for certain cruises, etc.

[geocruiser]

I'm not sure when Azamara came into existence, but I'm guessing 7 or 8 years ago. If there are those that reached the top (or very close to it) tier sailing exclusively with Azamara, they must have been very, very generous with their points system or extremely low points for each tier.

 

 

They might also cruise a lot and take very long cruises too.

[NLH Arizona]

They might also cruise a lot and take very long cruises too.

Then I wouldn't think getting to the top tier would be too difficult for these cruisers.

[hulamoon]

It breaks rules of marketing. KISS.

 

It will likely take a lot of manpower to explain it to customers. Free internet and free laundry is easily understood. A free cabin program with a ineligible sailings is asking for upset.

 

With the complex Celebrity promotions I keep wondering when manpower to explain and reexplain to customers became so cheap for RCL.

 

The most successful programs I am aware of was the Elite program, a lot of people sailed exclusively to get the freebies rather than go back and forth between brands. Lets look at another one, free booze on 1,2,3. Even if it didn't pencil out with price increases people got the concept and went crazy with it.

[excitedofharpenden]

I'm not sure when Azamara came into existence, but I'm guessing 7 or 8 years ago. If there are those that reached the top (or very close to it) tier sailing exclusively with Azamara, they must have been very, very generous with their points system or extremely low points for each tier.

 

You never know what will happen, they might just add in some perks to the top tier or even the second highest tier. They might add suite benefits, like Celebrity is doing, they might have bonus points for certain cruises, etc.

There are some serial cruisers on Azamara who cruise a lot. I know of one couple who have already done 100 cruises with them. Always stay in the top suite. Internet use for them is very important to carry on their business whilst they are away on Azamara for extended periods so I'm not sure how they will feel about the changes. Az will most probably come to an arrangement with them if it's a problem.

 

There isn't really the opportunity to do a suite system on Azamara like Celebrity because of the benefits already there for suite guests (unlimited dining in the specialties and free use of the T-Pool for example) and ship size. I can't see them doing bonuses and they haven't announced double sailing credits for singles like X or RCI, but you never know. Judging by the response on Cruise Critic and their Facebook page and lack of any comment by Azamara they have probably scurried away to think things through.

 

From the tone of your post I believe you may now understand the disappointment expressed and why for many the loss of current benefits won't be made up for by the new.

 

Phil

Edited September 4, 2014 by excitedofharpenden

[LOP]

As I stated on the Azamara forum, I am a business owner and travelling can be challenging at times when the business needs me, but technology has allowed me to work while vacationing and if internet is an additional cost, I will have to take that into consideration when choosing a cruiseline just as I do when choosing a resort.

 

Cabin upgrades are nice, but they typically do not apply to the cabin class I choose to book. If this was changed somehow then the offset of internet costs could be justified.

 

Just my opinion however.

[LOP]

There are some serial cruisers on Azamara who cruise a lot. I know of one couple who have already done 100 cruises with them. Always stay in the top suite. Internet use for them is very important to carry on their business whilst they are away on Azamara for extended periods so I'm not sure how they will feel about the changes. Az will most probably come to an arrangement with them if it's a problem.

 

 

Phil

 

I know exactly who you are speaking of as we met them last year on a B2B 24 day Azamara trip and their suite was right above ours (6088). Nice people and yes they must work often via the internet as did I when aboard. I would doubt Azamara would want to lose their business due to an internet charge.

[geocruiser]

Then I wouldn't think getting to the top tier would be too difficult for these cruisers.

 

If you are in an inside or outside cabin it can take a while. to reach the top teir Discoverer Platinum you need 3,000 credits. An inside cabin get you 2 credit per day. So a person would need 1,500 days on board. An outside cabin get 3 credits per day and you would need 1,000 days on board.

There are some who may/did reach that level, but not many I feel. There is all so a large gap between the two highest levels Discoverer Plus starts at 799 points and the highest tier starts at 3,000pts.

 

It looks like you get free nights (Two Earned Complimentary Nights) starting at Explorer level 150 to 299 pts.

 

Terms and conditions of Complimentary nights fro A's web site

 

Complimentary nights have no cash value, are not redeemable for cash, are not transferable, and must be booked within one year after date earned. Complimentary nights can only be redeemed on sailings 7-nights or longer. Guests are responsible for paying pro-rated amount of prevailing cruise fare rate at the time of booking (calculated as the per night price of the cruise times the numbers of nights not covered by the certificate), as well as full taxes, fees & port expenses for total duration of the cruise. [COLOR="Blue"]Complimentary nights cannot be combined with any other program or promotion or Restricted Rates. Complimentary nights earned when reaching different levels cannot be redeemed together[/color]. A balance of any unused complimentary nights can be redeemed only by Discoverer Platinum members who book 7-9-night voyages within one year of when the complimentary night(s) was awarded. Stateroom category will be based on category guest most frequently purchased on Azamara. The following blackout dates apply: Azamara Journey departing 2/19/15 and Azamara Quest departing 7/4/15, 7/18/15, and 7/11/16. Complimentary nights are earned against original stateroom category booked on cruises departing on or after January 1, 2015. To earn complimentary nights, members must earn at least 50% of their member points on Azamara and must have sailed with Azamara within the past 3 years. Terms may vary by country.

 

For myself its not worth it. I stopped sailing Azamara when they started with the drinks included. But I enjoyed all my cruises with them. Are you still sailing with Azamara or has this changed your mind about them?

 

Here is the link to the info. I think I got it right , at least I hope I did.

 

http://www.azamaraclubcruises.com/our-ships/le-club-voyage/member-tiers

Edited September 4, 2014 by geocruiser

[NLH Arizona]

There are some serial cruisers on Azamara who cruise a lot. I know of one couple who have already done 100 cruises with them. Always stay in the top suite. Internet use for them is very important to carry on their business whilst they are away on Azamara for extended periods so I'm not sure how they will feel about the changes. Az will most probably come to an arrangement with them if it's a problem.

 

There isn't really the opportunity to do a suite system on Azamara like Celebrity because of the benefits already there for suite guests (unlimited dining in the specialties and free use of the T-Pool for example) and ship size. I can't see them doing bonuses and they haven't announced double sailing credits for singles like X or RCI, but you never know. Judging by the response on Cruise Critic and their Facebook page and lack of any comment by Azamara they have probably scurried away to think things through.

 

From the tone of your post I believe you may now understand the disappointment expressed and why for many the loss of current benefits won't be made up for by the new.

 

Phil

Phil, there are other perks they can give suite customers other than dining and private pool.

 

They can still do the bonuses...the one for bonus points for booking on Celebrity was announced after the changes, same with the double single points.

 

No, I don't understand the disappointment and yes, if your read my post, some passengers will receive much more than they would have under the old program. Not everyone will be happy, just as some were not happy with the changes on Celebrity. I think on of the biggest problem, that I'm starting to understand now, is the reciprocity between Celebrity and Azamara. There were many, many complaints about the reciprocity between Royal Caribbean and Celebrity and how it should be stopped, but now since it benefits some, the reciprocity between Celebrity and Azamara is okey dokey. Hmmmm!

[NLH Arizona]

Complimentary nights cannot be combined with any other program or promotion or Restricted Rates.

And rightfully so; I have no problem with this term. Why should you get a bargin price and then get 2, 4, 6 or 10 of those nights free? You can get those bargin prices on the cruises you cruise to get to the next level, but on the one with the comp nights, that doesn't sound like good business to me. Edited September 4, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[geocruiser]

And rightfully so; I have no problem with this term. Why should you get a bargin price and then get 2, 4, 6 or 10 of those nights free? You can get those bargin prices on the cruises you cruise to get to the next level, but on the one with the comp nights, that doesn't sound like good business to me.

 

I don't know about any one else but I would not pay brochure rate. If you pay full price and get free nights, then it just might bring it down to the sale price. Nothing gain. With the changes are you still sailing on Azamara?

Edited September 4, 2014 by geocruiser

[Ma Bell]

I don't know about any one else but I would not pay brochure rate. If you pay full price and get free nights, then it just might bring it down to the sale price. Nothing gain. With the changes are you still sailing on Azamara?

 

That's the whole point. Some get it, some don't.

[NLH Arizona]

I don't know about any one else but I would not pay brochure rate. If you pay full price and get free nights, then it just might bring it down to the sale price. Nothing gain. With the changes are you still sailing on Azamara?

The new program is a great incentive to book, IMHO and actually, my TA is pricing two cruises right now. Possibly, since you cruise Azamara often and might have done these cruises, could give me your opinion on both.

 

12 Night Black Sea Voyage in July 2016

11 Night London to the Baltic Voyage 2016

 

Thank you so much.

Edited September 4, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[excitedofharpenden]

The new program is a great incentive to book, IMHO and actually, my TA is pricing two cruises right now. Possibly, since you cruise Azamara often and might have done these cruises, could give me your opinion on both.

 

12 Night Black Sea Voyage in July 2016

11 Night London to the Baltic Voyage 2016

 

Thank you so much.

I did the Baltic in June on Azamara Journey and it's a really nice itinerary (I'm presuming you mean the one that leaves from Southampton rather than London). We docked right up the River Neva near the Hermitage in St Petersburg. A great spot and the advantage of a smaller ship.

 

To be honest I wouldn't be that keen on booking a Black Sea cruise at the moment unless I was ok with an itinerary change. Very difficult to know just how long the troubles in Ukraine will last. Some friends booked a Black Sea cruise some time ago and are not long back from a completely altered route. However you might get a bargain on the price.

 

I'm guessing these will be your first Azamara cruises? Your Select status on Celebrity will get you on the Azamara Le Club Voyage ladder, but the perks won't be that great!

 

Phil

[geocruiser]

The new program is a great incentive to book, IMHO and actually, my TA is pricing two cruises right now. Possibly, since you cruise Azamara often and might have done these cruises, could give me your opinion on both.

 

12 Night Black Sea Voyage in July 2016

11 Night London to the Baltic Voyage 2016

 

Thank you so much.

 

I was on Journey twice for 12 nights each to the Caribbean. At total of 24 nights. What I like about it was the size of the ship. I did not feel the ship was is great shape for the price we paid. The staff, officers and crew are great. But the cabin attendant both times was subpar. But the staff most time will bend over backwards for you. As for the food it was OK. Others say its great. I was not fond of the spice that was in most of the food. On our second cruise as soon as I took the first bite of food I said to my DH "chef Lisa is on board". I was right. I did book another cruise but canceled it. The value just was not there for me.

But I do remember that if you book some of the aft cabin there was a vibration there. And the lowest PAX deck also had vibration. Maybe this has changed. Our Balcony cabin was OK. These are not new ships and have not been redone. We did have the piano man Carlos on board. You might know him form X. Both trips he was playing. Specialty dinning was good. Our first cruise it was included, second cruise you had to pay for it.

Food there was about the same both times very good.

 

Now can you please tell me about X's new ships. I have been on Zenith for 28 days and on Galaxy for 20. But then there was Chandris cruise line (later it changed into Celebrity). I had 10 plus cruise on them. What great small ships with wonderful food. I miss them.

Edited September 4, 2014 by geocruiser

[NLH Arizona]

I did the Baltic in June on Azamara Journey and it's a really nice itinerary (I'm presuming you mean the one that leaves from Southampton rather than London). We docked right up the River Neva near the Hermitage in St Petersburg. A great spot and the advantage of a smaller ship.

 

To be honest I wouldn't be that keen on booking a Black Sea cruise at the moment unless I was ok with an itinerary change. Very difficult to know just how long the troubles in Ukraine will last. Some friends booked a Black Sea cruise some time ago and are not long back from a completely altered route. However you might get a bargain on the price.

 

I'm guessing these will be your first Azamara cruises? Your Select status on Celebrity will get you on the Azamara Le Club Voyage ladder, but the perks won't be that great!

 

Phil

I'll be Elite, not Select, so I believe I'll be the Discoverer tier.

 

Thanks for your opinions, I'll take them into consideration.

[NLH Arizona]

I was on Journey twice for 12 nights each to the Caribbean. At total of 24 nights. What I like about it was the size of the ship. I did not feel the ship was is great shape for the price we paid. The staff, officers and crew are great. But the cabin attendant both times was subpar. But the staff most time will bend over backwards for you. As for the food it was OK. Others say its great. I was not fond of the spice that was in most of the food. On our second cruise as soon as I took the first bite of food I said to my DH "chef Lisa is on board". I was right. I did book another cruise but canceled it. The value just was not there for me.

But I do remember that if you book some of the aft cabin there was a vibration there. And the lowest PAX deck also had vibration. Maybe this has changed. Our Balcony cabin was OK. These are not new ships and have not been redone. We did have the piano man Carlos on board. You might know him form X. Both trips he was playing. Specialty dinning was good. Our first cruise it was included, second cruise you had to pay for it.

Food there was about the same both times very good.

 

Now can you please tell me about X's new ships. I have been on Zenith for 28 days and on Galaxy for 20. But then there was Chandris cruise line (later it changed into Celebrity). I had 10 plus cruise on them. What great small ships with wonderful food. I miss them.

I'm use to smaller ships, as I've done a lot on Crystal (even though they hold more passengers at around 900) and expedition ships (which has been as small as less than 100 passengers), so the size won't be an issue for me.

 

Sorry, I haven't been on the Reflection (I don't like ships over 3,000 passengers, actually if I can stay in the 2,000 to 2,400 range, I would be a happy camper). I actually like the M Class best, but have also done the S Class. My first cruise was on the Galaxy in 2001 and I actually cruised on her again 8 months before she left Celebrity. I miss her, and also miss the Horizon and will miss the Century when she leaves the fleet, but things changed and now in November, I'll be doing another cruise on the Summit, which as taken over as my favorite Celebrity ship.

 

No, don't know Carlos. Since I was in the music industry and have seen the best of the best, I don't really do the entertainment on the ships, as I don't want to be disappointed and there are so many other things to do...just a personal thing.

Edited September 4, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[geocruiser]

I'm use to smaller ships, as I've done a lot on Crystal (even though they hold more passengers at around 900) and expedition ships (which has been as small as less than 100 passengers), so the size won't be an issue for me.

 

Sorry, I haven't been on the Reflection (I don't like ships over 3,000 passengers, actually if I can stay in the 2,000 to 2,400 range, I would be a happy camper). I actually like the M Class best, but have also done the S Class. My first cruise was on the Galaxy in 2001 and I actually cruised on her again 8 months before she left Celebrity. I miss her, and also miss the Horizon and will miss the Century when she leaves the fleet, but things changed and now in November, I'll be doing another cruise on the Summit, which as taken over as my favorite Celebrity ship.

 

No, don't know Carlos. Since I was in the music industry and have seen the best of the best, I don't really do the entertainment on the ships, as I don't want to be disappointed and there are so many other things to do...just a personal thing.

 

I agree with you on liking smaller ships. I started cruising back in the mid 1970's and no ship was big then. Great times back then. Maybe some day we will be on the same cruise. Happy sailing.

 

PS

To every one else on the thread, thank you for letting me go off topic.

Edited September 4, 2014 by geocruiser