Could this happen on =X=?

[NLH Arizona]

Sometimes it's just not all about the money.

If it is about money or principle or whatever, if one doesn't like it, they should speak with their wallet and feet.

[pcur]

There was absolutely no indication that this was "abuse of the internet facility." First of all, Azamara cruises are extremely port intensive, including a number of nights in port. Second, the maximum free minutes available was 235 at the highest level, a long way from unlimited.

 

I find it funny that on the Azamara boards they are running 100% against the changes while it is only on the Celebrity boards that there is some "no big deal" reaction. That was exactly a lot of the Celebrity board's reaction when RCCL changed the Diamond benefits in 2009. "Oh, quit whining. It's no big deal." Schadenfreude perhaps?

 

Since virtually 100% of the changes to the Celebrity program have been of a positive nature, it will be real interesting to see the reaction here if the same thing happens. It's like the cuts to the cruising experience--it is never a problem until it effects ME.

 

I was one of the very, very few voices on the RCCL board in 2009 that thought the huge fuss over Diamonds leaving the Concierge Lounge was much to do about not much. I feel the same way about Azamara cruisers having so much trouble giving up free laundry and internet.

 

I just finished researching the Azamara benefits and perks we would get, and we RECEIVE far more than we would (potentially) lose. For a one week cruise we would pay $30 for the bag of laundry, and $32 for the equivalent internet with a Discoverer level discount. Why anyone at the Discoverer level would be outraged over $62 worth of freebies is beyond me.

 

I still have the same opinion that I had in 2009: it's their program; it's FREE; I'm happy for what I get.....very happy! :D

[deise17311]

When AZ announced they were going all inclusive people went crazy with the same threats and posts...of course those same people are still sailing and Azamara continues on...as others have said, CC does not dictate the industry and the majority of cruisers are not on the boards...this is not my opinion, it's what's been said here...

 

 

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[richsea]

If it is about money or principle or whatever, if one doesn't like it, they should speak with their wallet and feet.

 

Alas, some cannot be as level headed as others. Tis a pity.

[hulamoon]

People do become loyal. Some are more detached than others, but when we are spending over a couple of decades, the equivalent of a vacation home, it is natural that some will get attached and want some kind of loyalty for the dollars they spend over time.

 

There are those who can tolerate no criticism of their favorite line whatsoever and try to hold others to the same point of view.

 

There are some that think of their line like an friend that needs a bit of counsel occasionally and although they maybe disappointed they keep the faith that it will all come around.

 

Others become bitter and threaten to leave, maybe that is dysfunction or sanity, who am I judge this I do not know what investment they have made emotionally or economically.

 

It's a lot of money for most of us, CC helps us with different points of views and keeping the options open.

[C 2 C]

People do become loyal.

 

 

Good post.

It hurts to be slighted by those (that which) you love.

Reaction to these situations is not always rational but bitterness is often the result.

[geocruiser]

When AZ announced they were going all inclusive people went crazy with the same threats and posts...of course those same people are still sailing and Azamara continues on...as others have said, CC does not dictate the industry and the majority of cruisers are not on the boards...this is not my opinion, it's what's been said here...

 

 

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You are right, we and three other couples are still sailing. But not with Azamara any more. We did not like the inclusive changes and all of us stopped sailing Azamara. We took our money to other cruise lines.

[The_Big_M]

I guess they learned since then, because it sure didn't work well with Celebrity - even though many complained to leave; their ships are still full and there were no changes to the new Captain's Club program.

 

Actually there were. For example an increase in points earned on Xpedition cruises.

[maggie.1008]

We have not sailed with Azamara since they went all inclusive. Great crew but the value is not there for us. Much better perks on X so why go back to Azamara. I was looking forward to seeing if Elite Plus benefits might bring us back to Azamara but they took benefits away. Hope some of their great crew come to work for Celebrity.

[excitedofharpenden]

Yes, you are correct, the upgrades are $199 per person, opposed to what the real price difference would be. Yes, it was only one bag of laundry, probably worth $25 or $30 to the passenger. What you are not paying for (other than if you figure the cost of cruising on the line in general)is the comp nights when you reach the next tier, which would be 2, 4, 6 or 10 depending on which tier you move into. In addition they get a quarterly 10 percent discount on select sailings and 3 to 10 percent on board booking discount, plus $200 OBC. None of these things were in their program prior.

You need to go away and read the terms and conditions again, look at the tier point spread and understand how they can really materially affect the new benefits and if and when you get them. I really wish some on this board would quit offering their views of things that they have no experience or first hand knowledge about.

 

Phil

[Xport]

You need to go away and read the terms and conditions again, look at the tier point spread and understand how they can really materially affect the new benefits and if and when you get them. I really wish some on this board would quit offering their views of things that they have no experience or first hand knowledge about.l

 

I tried to make the same point in my earlier post here--excerpted from my post to the Azamara thread--to no apparent avail...

 

The most tangible of benefits under Azamara's new scheme--"Free Days"--is contingent upon having earned 50% of one's Cruise Points while sailing with Azamara... For those with significant sailing histories with Celebrity and who have already achieved Elite +/Discoverer + membership and for whom Zenith/Discoverer Plus membership is a possibility, it's statistically impossible to earn the "Free Day" benefit...

 

And as one Celebrity Zenith member [i doubt that anyone has earned LCV Discoverer Platinum status based upon sailing with Azamara solely; the line is too new] has already posted to the Azamara board, there is absolutely no incentive to sail with Azamara versus Celebrity; the related loss of benefits is monumental...

 

Reduced price upgrades to Azamara's Sky Suite equivalents [those who book them have no opportunity to upgrade as the top two suite categories are excluded] are awarded to those with the highest number of Cruise Points if available/if one applies for consideration... Out of curiosity, I'll give it a try for my B2B next February but don't hold out much hope... At present, there are five such staterooms available on my first sailing with lots of time to go and, on my second, all suite categories have been sold out for months... That situation may flex--but probably not materially given the investment in airfare and, perhaps, hotels [Rio, at Carnival, is tough/pricey and isn't planned at the last minute]--when final payments are due next month...

 

10% discount on select sailings? Well, those are likely the same seriously undersold trips as have been offered under their "Savings For Singles" promotion... That list--robust for 2014--has dwindled to nothing for 2015... And with Azamara's constant promotions and related [to put it kindly] "fluid" pricing [it fluctuates wildly based upon what's being offered at the time], I don't know how one would ever quantify the benefit value...

 

Onboard credit versus price reductions for booking aboard? Not enticing given Azamara's mostly inclusive nature... Discounts on certain shop purchases? Well one can seriously scan through the few--generally overpriced--shops in ten minutes and have time left over... Spa discounts? Okay for those who use the services but surely not a reason to remain faithful to Azamara...

 

I tend to do long consecutive sailings and, though I won't go broke paying for the laundry and internet I most assuredly need, I'll certainly miss what had been included and I can still get--at least for now--aboard Celebrity...

 

The Emperor has new clothes!

 

As Host Andy noted on the Azamara Board, this forum would go berserk if Celebrity were to introduce comparable changes...

[NLH Arizona]

You need to go away and read the terms and conditions again, look at the tier point spread and understand how they can really materially affect the new benefits and if and when you get them. I really wish some on this board would quit offering their views of things that they have no experience or first hand knowledge about.

 

Phil

Phil, with all due respect, I would never be so rude to tell you to go away and do anything. I've read the rules and tier point spread (they are the same as Celebrity), put a pen and paper to it and I still feel that IMHO, folks are getting a better deal with the new perks, instead of the $100 or so dollars they are getting in the free bag of laundry and internet minutes, that some are so upset about. I really wish some on here would understand that some have different views then they do and that is okay and that there is no need to attack them, because they have a differing opinion. Edited September 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[excitedofharpenden]

Phil, with all due respect, I would never be so rude to tell you to go away and do anything. I've read the rules and tier point spread (they are the same as Celebrity), put a pen and paper to it and I still feel that IMHO, folks are getting a better deal with the new perks, instead of the $100 or so dollars they are getting in the free bag of laundry and internet minutes, that some are so upset about. I really wish some on here would understand that some have different views then they do and that is okay and that there is no need to attack them, because they have a differing opinion.

Here's an example to think about. I'm Elite Plus and equivalent Discoverer Plus, halfway to Zenith. It's sold to me (by Azamara and you) that I'm working toward extra free nights for moving to the next level. In all likelihood I've got to take another 50 cruises to do that, ensuring that the one that I take to move me from Discoverer Plus to Discovery Platinum is on Azamara. Oh and I must make sure that if I cruise Celebrity at any stage the whole of my accrued point must be made up of at least 50% Azamara. 50 cruises with no free internet or laundry. If I make it there at all.

 

The upgrades have a number of terms and conditions. More and more staterooms on Az are sold as GTY and these don't qualify for upgrade. All of the new benefits assume I spend something to save anything, if indeed I qualify for them.

 

Sorry, your citing that the new benefits make up for the loss of the old is dead wrong. It's not an attack. If you put forward your opinion and so obviously without the experience to back it up don't be surprised if someone who has that first hand experience and knowledge challenges you on it.

 

Phil

[NLH Arizona]

Here's an example to think about. I'm Elite Plus and equivalent Discoverer Plus, halfway to Zenith. It's sold to me (by Azamara and you) that I'm working toward extra free nights for moving to the next level. In all likelihood I've got to take another 50 cruises to do that, ensuring that the one that I take to move me from Discoverer Plus to Discovery Platinum is on Azamara. Oh and I must make sure that if I cruise Celebrity at any stage the whole of my accrued point must be made up of at least 50% Azamara. 50 cruises with no free internet or laundry. If I make it there at all.

 

The upgrades have a number of terms and conditions. More and more staterooms on Az are sold as GTY and these don't qualify for upgrade. All of the new benefits assume I spend something to save anything, if indeed I qualify for them.

 

Sorry, your citing that the new benefits make up for the loss of the old is dead wrong. It's not an attack. If you put forward your opinion and so obviously without the experience to back it up don't be surprised if someone who has that first hand experience and knowledge challenges you on it.

 

Phil

Like you said before, The perks are nice to have, but not the driver and Personally I think the sense of entitlement shown by some here is pretty horrible, but unsurprising. Time indeed to move on by showing the true loyalty that is sought or finding something else. Life is too short. Edited September 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[hulamoon]

Azamara changed the rules. For those who put faith in the reciprocity benefits they are getting a wake up call. I would be disappointed too.

 

If celebrity removed laundry and internet and basically told us no worries, when you get to Zenith all will be better, our boards would be on fire.:eek:

 

And people have a right to feel what they feel. It's a completely different situation if people are getting upset with their facts askew. No one wants to be told their feeling are wrong.

[miataman19]

Like you said before, The perks are nice to have, but not the driver and Personally I think the sense of entitlement shown by some here is pretty horrible, but unsurprising. Time indeed to move on by showing the true loyalty that is sought or finding something else. Life is too short.

 

LIKE :cool:

[CruisingChick]

Azamara changed the rules. For those who put faith in the reciprocity benefits they are getting a wake up call. I would be disappointed too.

 

If celebrity removed laundry and internet and basically told us no worries, when you get to Zenith all will be better, our boards would be on fire.:eek:

 

And people have a right to feel what they feel. It's a completely different situation if people are getting upset with their facts askew. No one wants to be told their feeling are wrong.

 

Most of us will be long gone (dead) before we ever get to Zenith. If they removed laundry and internet I'd be upset. More so over the internet as I can wash some clothes out in the bathroom sink and hang them to dry, etc. But the internet is so slow it becomes costly.

 

If they had high-speed internet where you didn't have to be logged on for 10 minutes just to read an e-mail, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

[excitedofharpenden]

Azamara changed the rules. For those who put faith in the reciprocity benefits they are getting a wake up call. I would be disappointed too.

 

If celebrity removed laundry and internet and basically told us no worries, when you get to Zenith all will be better, our boards would be on fire.:eek:

 

And people have a right to feel what they feel. It's a completely different situation if people are getting upset with their facts askew. No one wants to be told their feeling are wrong.

 

What is most upsetting to me is that Azamara are treating their loyal cruisers in such a cynical way. Maybe if they just came out with it and told us the truth then it wouldn't be so bad, but it's being sold as a positive move for frequent guests and it's clearly not.

 

Hi Charles and thank you for your words.

 

Phil

[excitedofharpenden]

We all have differing opinions, I would never say that yours is wrong, because that is the way you feel, and I just look at things differently. I've crunched the numbers and feel in the long run, the new program is better, but that is just my opinion. I disagree with your conclusions and you are free to disagree with mine.

 

Honestly, this is just a stock answer when a reasoned argument can't be made. I went to the trouble of giving some facts about how many cruises I'd need to take to get those extra 10 nights free, but you haven't commented. 50 cruises. You are saying this makes up for the loss of internet and laundry. 50 cruises paying for laundry and 45% of the internet cost? Do the maths and let me know how your numbers crunched. If I feel that you are right and I am wrong then I will freely admit it.

 

Phil

[hulamoon]

Cruise lines offer perks in the hopes you will be loyal. When it works and people become loyal no one should be surprised the marketing worked or beat up those who enjoyed it. Should we bite our tongues and not complain? No actually, I think complaints and accolades are warranted when the entire purpose was to get you to be loyal in the first place.

 

Are we better off operating as if the loyalty offers are impermanent? Probably, but it isn't as fun and it is nice to think of those ships as a safe, trusted home rather than a cold, bottom line business who would change the loyalty program every few years to attract different fish, because your loyalty is no longer a priority.

[C 2 C]

For those who feel no sympathy for those affected and feel the new deal is better for Azamara cruisers, please let us know how many Azamara cruises you will now book as a result of the change.

I can guess that those who "don't feel the love" by having certain perks removed will cancel way more cruises than those who think this move is advantageous for them.

[hulamoon]

Most of us will be long gone (dead) before we ever get to Zenith. If they removed laundry and internet I'd be upset. More so over the internet as I can wash some clothes out in the bathroom sink and hang them to dry, etc. But the internet is so slow it becomes costly.

 

If they had high-speed internet where you didn't have to be logged on for 10 minutes just to read an e-mail, then maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

 

I don't like doing laundry at home, much less on a ship. I also wash in the shower or sink and send out the rest. The chosen technology on the ships is so bad it seems a crime to charge for it, so yes, getting it free is better. I would rather not use port time to get online. Silly me, I thought all the free minutes were a bit of nod to the fact the technology was so bad, so to use it as a profit center is irritating. Jenna mentioned summit is now upgraded, I can only hope.

[hulamoon]

What is most upsetting to me is that Azamara are treating their loyal cruisers in such a cynical way. QUOTE]

 

I agree, cynicism is not healthy for business or customers. You are right, a straight up truth rather than raising expectations first would have been manageable.

[kk99]

I posted yesterday on the Azamara boards yesterday that I would take a wait and see view, with the hopes that someone from Azamara would come on the board and explain why they think this is a good program change better for its members.

 

For those who are first starting out on Azamara, the opportunity to earn some free nights on nondiscounted bookings when moving to the next level has some value as well as the quarterly 10% savings on designated cruises.

 

 

For those who are in higher tiers like Xport, and Phil, the move to Discoverer Platinum to get those free nights is a costly proposition.

 

For those of us (including myself) who like to cruise both lines, we will not qualify for those free nights because I believe that if and when we may make Zenith, we will be over 50% of the points on Celebrity.

 

The discounts for booking are nice, but on some sailings, you will still be able to do better by booking at last minute or through one of the promotions on offer.

 

 

I don't think for those who are Zenith already like Orator, Cruisenut, and soon to be Ma Bell, may not see much added value in the Discover Platinum level as compared to the benefits on the Celebrity Zenith tier.

 

 

I really like the onboard experience on Azamara, and if it fits our needs with the itinerary and cost, we will still book on them.

 

There was a huge buildup of anticipation when they kept pushing back the release date of the changes to the program, and for those who cruise Azamara almost exclusively, I certainly understand their points of view when the email came out on Monday.

 

 

In the big scheme of things, the laundry and internet was what we most valued as included perks, but it will not be a deterrent if we find a cruise we want to take on Azamara if we are paying for it.

 

For their most loyal customers, it does seem rather small of headquarters to take away something that is worth perhaps a $100 or so a sailing, but is probably used by most cruisers.

 

I do think what Azamara did with the rollout, is to get cruisers thinking about what all of their options are. If they have cancellations, then they need to market better to whoever they are trying to attract.

 

Whatever line anyone decides to cruise, I wish them a very happy and relaxing vacation.

[CruisingChick]

Jenna mentioned summit is now upgraded, I can only hope.

 

Really!! Great news we board her in 18 days!!

 

I will check it out first hand.