Beverage Package Gratuities Update: 15% to 18%

[cle-guy]

OMG. The horror, the humanity. How will you cope with paying an extra .39 cents for a drink in the molecular bar? This coming from someone who quite proudly lists their suites in their signature. Give me a break.

 

I'm not sure what my sailing in suites has to do with my desire for value for money. I think I have just as much right to be concerned over this change as a senior booking an inside cabin does. I'm not a "classist".

 

I also think it's currently not right to tip 15% for drinks in any bar, a buck a drink is the norm - then round the loose change up to nearest dollar for the entire order.

 

Do you think that anyone cruising in suite should just be wandering the ship aimlessly tossing twenty dollar bills into the air randomly wanting people to go grab them up?

 

I made my point that it's usual custom in most bars and clubs to tip a buck a drink, not over $2 for a drink, especially when one has to wait for a period of time to get a drink - in which case custom would be to leave no tip, as the service was not expedient.

 

If for some reason they begin to add more bartenders at peak periods to martini bar and molecular bar, and theatre, then the extra amount is worthy, however, the time it takes to get a drink would in a normal establishment cause the "tip meter" to start winding down as wait time increases - and likely lead to no tip for poor service.

 

Truth of the matter is there are quite a number of folks with inclusive drink packages, basically anyone who booked 2 months or more out, in an ocean view or better cabin, without some sort of restricted discount fare. likely it amounts to better than half the ship occupants. So this policy isn't affecting the majority of cruisers, only those who book outside of 123 packages, which have been ongoing continuously now for over a year. The way I book last minute often, I have ended up about half with 123 and half without 123.

[Adidas4fun]

 

Here is the problem: You do NOT need to understand a custom to follow the custom. It doesn't and shouldn't need to be rational to YOU for you to do the "right thing". Whether you think it's a greedy business-based or crazy cultural-based custom, you simply are expected do it. But you don't have to if you don't respect it. Most of us don't really care what you choose to do because it's your right to choose. But PLEASE don't post comments on this board about how dumb something is and imply that those that have the custom OWE YOU a rational explanation. before you can comply with said custom. IOW, you are not owed an explanation nor entitled to understand it!

 

There it is again, putting words in my mouth and then attacking me for your own projections. It is you who are the one that is angry. Just as many americans have admitted to tipping because they dont want to get yelled at because clearly tipping is causing increasing anger for americans.

[Wine-O]

There it is again, putting words in my mouth and then attacking me for your own projections. It is you who are the one that is angry. Just as many americans have admitted to tipping because they dont want to get yelled at because clearly tipping is causing increasing anger for americans.

 

Those pesky Americans. :p

[Terpnut]

Those pesky Americans. :p

I'm having a good laugh everyday at this guy's attitude about tipping! I hardly know any fellow Americans (and I only know a couple thousand! :)) who are either angry or upset about tipping! Yet this guy thinks we're being defensive or that we're angry when we attempt to explain to him a custom that he simply can never grasp or accept, and only wishes to continue to argue over! I guess I am sure pesky. ;) I think there is something in the water in the other hemisphere! LOL Edited February 6, 2015 by Terpnut

[Pushka]

I think there is something in the water in the other hemisphere! LOL

 

 

And that is just as much a culturally insensitive comment as you accuse others of.

[flames9]

Everyone has their points as in some countries 1 does not tip, some do a little, some only for great service.

 

But again---I would bet if they paid the workers a higher salary, the price of the cruise would be a lot more than it is now--even when 1 adds in the gratuities.....

[bobsfamily]

Everyone has their points as in some countries 1 does not tip, some do a little, some only for great service.

 

But again---I would bet if they paid the workers a higher salary, the price of the cruise would be a lot more than it is now--even when 1 adds in the gratuities.....

When determining the cost of a cruise I always include the "auto" tips into the price, along with Port charges, taxes and fees. The FINAL price is what can drive what ship/line I go on... although the date and where it's going can factor in as well.

[woodyren]

When determining the cost of a cruise I always include the "auto" tips into the price, along with Port charges, taxes and fees. The FINAL price is what can drive what ship/line I go on... although the date and where it's going can factor in as well.

 

That is exactly what I do. If tipping is needed then auto tips are the way to go for me. This makes it possible to easily and stressfully follow the tradition of tipping, not feel like I am ripping a worker off AND my personal belief that people should paid a fair negotiated wage for their service and as a result deserve no more than a thank you when said service is provided.

 

I know exactly what I am in for and can let management deal with service issues as they would in most other jobs. Job satisfaction, job retention, promotion etc should be the eventual reward for people who do their jobs well and the dole queue or more suitable job the result for those who can't perform theirs to the required standard.

 

So in my way of thinking what I am questioning in this thread is simply why is the wages component of someone getting me a drink rising at a higher comparative rate than the cost of the drink itself?

Edited February 6, 2015 by woodyren

[GUT2407]

That is exactly what I do. If tipping is needed then auto tips are the way to go for me. This makes it possible to easily and stressfully follow the tradition of tipping, not feel like I am ripping a worker off AND my personal belief that people should paid a fair negotiated wage for their service and as a result deserve no more than a thank you when said service is provided.

 

I know exactly what I am in for and can let management deal with service issues as they would in most other jobs. Job satisfaction, job retention, promotion etc should be the eventual reward for people who do their jobs well and the dole queue or more suitable job the result for those who can't perform theirs to the required standard.

 

So in my way of thinking what I am questioning in this thread is simply why is the wages component of someone getting me a drink rising at a higher comparative rate than the cost of the drink itself?

 

 

Exactly.

 

Though I actually prefer to pre-pay them even though almost always do traditional dining and eat most meals in MDR or Buffet

 

But why has the rate gone up at almost double the rate of inflation ie if t was at 10% and has risen to, all but 20%, if the price of a drink doubled the tip has quadrupled:eek:.

[bobsfamily]

So in my way of thinking what I am questioning in this thread is simply why is the wages component of someone getting me a drink rising at a higher comparative rate than the cost of the drink itself?

 

I still don't see what you are saying.... I have paid the fare, including the price for the "free drink package" including the tip or whatever you want to call it. I no longer care what the tip is, what the bartenders get paid, who does what with what... It does not cross my mind at all.

[woodyren]

I still don't see what you are saying.... I have paid the fare, including the price for the "free drink package" including the tip or whatever you want to call it. I no longer care what the tip is, what the bartenders get paid, who does what with what... It does not cross my mind at all.

 

Where in my post did I say I had the drinks package? The thread is about the increase in the tipping percentage when you purchase a drink.

[Adidas4fun]

 

Here is the problem: You do NOT need to understand a custom to follow the custom. It doesn't and shouldn't need to be rational to YOU for you to do the "right thing". Whether you think it's a greedy business-based or crazy cultural-based custom, you simply are expected do it. But you don't have to if you don't respect it. Most of us don't really care what you choose to do because it's your right to choose. But PLEASE don't post comments on this board about how dumb something is and imply that those that have the custom OWE YOU a rational explanation. before you can comply with said custom. IOW, you are not owed an explanation nor entitled to understand it!

Okay, so this isnt anger its just a bit of harmless yelling.

 

I could go back and find posts by other uses that further demonstrate my point but it is pointless! Tipping is clearly the holy grail of american culture and any questions show the question asker is clearly a fiscal miser of illegitimate parentage. :rollseyes:

[Terpnut]

Okay, so this isnt anger its just a bit of harmless yelling.

 

I could go back and find posts by other uses that further demonstrate my point but it is pointless! Tipping is clearly the holy grail of american culture and any questions show the question asker is clearly a fiscal miser of illegitimate parentage. :rollseyes:

There was honestly not even a hint of anger from my side and my CAPS were only for emphasis since I still don't think you understood my points. Again, I am merely saying that you simply are not entitled to an explanation that satisfies you before you are expected to comply with any accepted custom. That's all.

 

When a woman visits Saudi Arabia, she is expected to cover her head and face with a hijab. When an observant Jewish friend comes for dinner, I don't serve pork or dairy. Indians consider cows sacred. When someone has a visit with the Queen, it is considered inappropriate to touch or hug her. In some countries, it is inappropriate to shake hands. It's considered rude to gift a clock or hankerchief in China. I can go on and on. I frankly don't understand the rationale or reasoning behind much of this, nor do "explanations" often make sense to me personally. But the key is: I respect the custom unquestionably.

 

Tipping is no different, but you seem to want to draw a distinction and continue to debate something that simply has no resolution or satisfactory answer (to you). You diminishing it by implying that it is based on some sort of irrational business policy and/or a side effect of American arrogance.

 

I asked several questions earlier that you never answered. What it is it that you hope to resolve? Do you honestly hope that you can change said tipping culture by venting here on CruiseCritic? Are you saying that you don't or won't respect local customs? Do you consider tipping different from any other international custom? If so, why? :rolleyes:

Edited February 7, 2015 by Terpnut

[jveevers]

........ you are expected to comply with any accepted custom. That's all.

 

........When a woman visits Saudi Arabia, she is expected to cover her head and face with a hijab.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote part 1......Why are we all expected go comply with any accepted custom.? In my country the accepted custom is not to tip. That doesnt stop those from other countries tipping I.e. we dont expect you not to tip.

 

Quote part 2.......Absolute rubbish. Was in Saudi last year, only Saudis and whatever religion they are follow this custom.

[GUT2407]

........ you are expected to comply with any accepted custom. That's all.

 

........When a woman visits Saudi Arabia, she is expected to cover her head and face with a hijab.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote part 1......Why are we all expected go comply with any accepted custom.? In my country the accepted custom is not to tip. That doesnt stop those from other countries tipping I.e. we dont expect you not to tip.

 

Quote part 2.......Absolute rubbish. Was in Saudi last year, only Saudis and whatever religion they are follow this custom.

 

 

Didn't the first Lady recently say she wasn't going to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia?

[jveevers]

Didn't the first Lady recently say she wasn't going to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia?

 

 

 

Sorry, I dont see any posts in this thread about a lady not wearing a scarf ?

[GUT2407]

Didn't the first Lady recently say she wasn't going to wear a scarf in Saudi Arabia?

 

 

 

Sorry, I dont see any posts in this thread about a lady not wearing a scarf ?

 

What was said was

 

 

........When a woman visits Saudi Arabia, she is expected to cover her head and face with a hijab.

 

 

Which actually isn't so and I commented that even the US first lady wasn't going to wear even a scarf let alone a hajib.

[The_Big_M]

I think there is something in the water in the other hemisphere!

 

Right. So tipping is natural, whereas not tipping is not because we must be conditioned through our water system.

 

It's funny how you proclaim neutrality and just that you "respect customs" yet have this big bee in your bonnet trying to justify and defend your favoured position, and put down those who disagree with it.

[cle-guy]

Weather tipping is a custom or not isn't even the point.

 

The point is that Celebrity advertises and lets all passengers know that it has a policy to add gratuities to all transactions.

 

Foget custom, weather one wants to agree or disagree with forced tipping.

 

Celebrity makes it part of the overall pricing scheme and lets people know about their policy of this issue. No different really than airlines have a fee for the ticket and adding on a Fuel Surcharge, or FedEx pricing its services plus a "fuel surcharge"

 

If it helps, tell yourselves it's a "service charge" and avoid use of word tip or gratuity. In the end it matters not what name it's given, it's an added on fee the amount of which doesn't change no matter what it's called.

 

Though I'm not sure perhaps there is a cruise line or several who don't have a policy of adding a percentage to onboard purchases or allowing guests to tip staff, or don't place tip envelopes out during the cruise, I'd be interested in knowing if there is any line out there who does not tack on an automatic amount daily, or to F&B or to spa services, but rather just has a single all-incusive price with no surcharges added.

[delondin]

Weather tipping is a custom or not isn't even the point.

 

The point is that Celebrity advertises and lets all passengers know that it has a policy to add gratuities to all transactions.

 

Foget custom, weather one wants to agree or disagree with forced tipping.

 

Celebrity makes it part of the overall pricing scheme and lets people know about their policy of this issue. No different really than airlines have a fee for the ticket and adding on a Fuel Surcharge, or FedEx pricing its services plus a "fuel surcharge"

 

If it helps, tell yourselves it's a "service charge" and avoid use of word tip or gratuity. In the end it matters not what name it's given, it's an added on fee the amount of which doesn't change no matter what it's called.

 

Though I'm not sure perhaps there is a cruise line or several who don't have a policy of adding a percentage to onboard purchases or allowing guests to tip staff, or don't place tip envelopes out during the cruise, I'd be interested in knowing if there is any line out there who does not tack on an automatic amount daily, or to F&B or to spa services, but rather just has a single all-incusive price with no surcharges added.

 

Regent is all inclusive, drinks, flights, tours and gratuities. Also Crystal includes drinks and gratuities. Azamara includes drinks and gratuities too.

Edited February 7, 2015 by delondin

[GazW]

Weather tipping is a custom or not isn't even the point.

 

The point is that Celebrity advertises and lets all passengers know that it has a policy to add gratuities to all transactions.

 

Foget custom, weather one wants to agree or disagree with forced tipping.

 

If it helps, tell yourselves it's a "service charge" and avoid use of word tip or gratuity. In the end it matters not what name it's given, it's an added on fee the amount of which doesn't change no matter what it's called.

 

Doesn't help really. Celebrity call it a "gratuity" ( same as tip, agreed? )..according to to this article (haven't checked it's veracity) : http://www.bakertilly.com/insights/tip-versus-service-charge:

 

"The IRS defines a tip as having the following characteristics:

 

The payment must be made free from compulsion (the customer is not required to pay a tip but voluntarily does so);

 

The customer must have the unrestricted right to determine the amount (the restaurant cannot automatically calculate the gratuity);

 

The payment should not be the subject of negotiations or dictated by employer policy (the restaurant does not negotiate with the customer for a gratuity amount); and

 

Generally, the customer has the right to determine who receives the payment (as opposed to the employer.)"

 

Now if all this is true, and we are following US law here - sometimes we are, it appears, and sometimes not...then surely it is not a gratuity and it is a service charge.

 

Nonetheless, my personal issue is that if it is supposed to be a gratuity/tip then I would like to abide by my own "cultural" tipping style and it would appear the IRS agree (they are American, right?) and tip based on merit and not be forced into it.

 

Though I'm not sure perhaps there is a cruise line or several who don't have a policy of adding a percentage to onboard purchases or allowing guests to tip staff, or don't place tip envelopes out during the cruise

 

Certainly (unless it has recently changed) P&O do not have an automatic "service charge" applied to bar drinks purchases AND their prices are considerably more reasonable. (Pint of Boddingtons £3.50 ($5.33) - no service charge - compared to $7.50+18% = $8.85)

 

 

P.S. I await the cries of "Go back to P&O then!"...

 

 

EDIT - I do concede after performing some post-"post" 'due diligence' that in fact Celebrity, on some menus I looked at, do call the additional fee a "service charge" - Therefore my argument is somewhat diminshed. I apologise.

Edited February 7, 2015 by GazW

[Scott2.0]

What's the difference if it's represented as base price plus gratuity or just a higher inclusive price? Does it really matter?

[k9x8]

Yes, yes, and yes. I remember my dad leaving his pocket change on the table and that was an acceptable tip. Not sure when it became my responsibility to pay others' wages.

 

News Flash: you pay others' wages every time you make a purchase.

Your statement makes about as much sense as saying The doctor should pay his receptionist's wages, not you.

 

When I eat in a European restaurant, chances are, I'm paying a non-negotiable service charge. In Rome, I might pay twice as much for an espresso if I choose to drink it sitting at a table. Two burgers with a pint and a glass of wine cost us close to 50 BPS in Cornwall.

 

No matter which way you crunch the numbers, you are paying the wages.

[DirtyDawg]

News Flash: you pay others' wages every time you make a purchase.

Your statement makes about as much sense as saying The doctor should pay his receptionist's wages, not you.

 

....No matter which way you crunch the numbers, you are paying the wages.

 

In my country the doctors pay the receptionists' wages out of the reimbursements they get from the government. And believe you me, I pay lots and lots of taxes so those receptionists can get paid.:eek: Heck my GP has probably paid for her two kids' college educations and her new BMW from the taxes I've paid to her over the years. ;)

Edited February 7, 2015 by DirtyDawg

[Terpnut]

Right. So tipping is natural, whereas not tipping is not because we must be conditioned through our water system.

 

It's funny how you proclaim neutrality and just that you "respect customs" yet have this big bee in your bonnet trying to justify and defend your favoured position, and put down those who disagree with it.

If you read my posts carefully, you should know that 1) I don't like or approve of our tipping custom and 2) I have never defended it. I have however tried to explain it based on my understanding. I personally agree with 90% of what you and others have been saying: that it's not a great system and may be partly (or even mostly) driven by pre-existing business practices, etc. However my opinions or feelings on it don't change the reality that it exists or that I need to live with it. Not tipping doesn't hurt the practice--it only hurts the people who work hard and depend on it.

 

So after I or others have attempted to simply explain our understanding of or the rationale behind tipping (but apparently not to yours or others' satisfaction), I'm not clear where we are going with the continued dialogue. Again you are fully entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to superimpose this rationalization on someone else's custom. It simply doesn't matter whether it makes some or any sense to you and the only appropriate response is to follow the local customs. The fact that some Americans tip in Australia is only proof that those folks were not informed, and failed to adapt their personal behaviors appropriately to your local customs. And this is regrettable and unfortunate. So you are correct that they should not have tipped. I hope however you are not using an example of a lack of knowledge and insensitivity to justify your not tipping in a country or place where tipping is customary and expected. That's all I'm saying. When in Rome...

Edited February 7, 2015 by Terpnut