Sorting Out the Pricing Differences

[deec]

Hoyaheel

What would I google/search to find a "consolidator" for river cruises?

Especially one that is trustworthy. Personal recommendations make me so much more comfortable.

 

Sure wish that CC would have a way to private message the way TripAdvisor does...so we dont break any rules.

[caviargal]

I am often accused of being Type A, but this spreadsheet approach seems too much work even for me. I think it's best to concentrate on what's MOST important to you on a trip, especially since most river cruises are more alike than different and since many people who have done this tedious job report that the price differences are also pretty small once you factor everything in. For me, the most important thing was the quality of the cuisine and of the included wines -- that led me to AMA without all this tedious analysis. The prices seemed ok for the level of luxury provided, so we booked -- and are very happy with our choice.

 

I agree with everything you posted. No spreadsheets for me as there is more to it than simply entries on a spreadsheet IMO. And we also have found AMA meets our priorities very well. They are our line of choice.

[Hydrokitty]

I agree with everything you posted. No spreadsheets for me as there is more to it than simply entries on a spreadsheet IMO. And we also have found AMA meets our priorities very well. They are our line of choice.

 

Me too! I couldn't do a spreadsheet if my life depended on it!! And we have found Vantage to meet our priorities and give us the most "bang for our buck". :D

[Host Jazzbeau]

I can understand how making a spreadsheet seems helpful in comparing river cruises, but I think there are two difficulties that make it hard to get accurate results:

(1) It's very hard to tease out some of the differences between lines -- for example in two current threads it has become obvious that Uniworld, for all its luxury and inclusiveness, charges extra for a lot of excursions that others lines (AMA has been mentioned) include as free options, and that Vantage charges a corkage fee for wine while Viking does not (and AMA does in the bar but not at dinner). There must be many other details like this that I haven't found out about yet.

(2) A spreadsheet tends to rate things only by cost, not by quality -- so included tours all look the same, although they may be quite different based on the size of the walking group and quality of the guides; same with included wine (plonk vs. nectar of the gods).

 

That's why I prefer to compare the reviews and comments here on the River Cruising board to identify the lines that seem to provide a product that suits me. Enough people have concluded that the price differences vanish when you quantify all the inclusions on the apparently high-priced cruise lines, so that I feel confident focusing solely on quality. If there is a slightly higher cost in the end, I'm sure it's backed by a quality product. I'd rather pay a little more and be constantly delighted than save a few dollars and notice all the cut corners.

[caviargal]

I can understand how making a spreadsheet seems helpful in comparing river cruises, but I think there are two difficulties that make it hard to get accurate results:

(1) It's very hard to tease out some of the differences between lines -- for example in two current threads it has become obvious that Uniworld, for all its luxury and inclusiveness, charges extra for a lot of excursions that others lines (AMA has been mentioned) include as free options, and that Vantage charges a corkage fee for wine while Viking does not (and AMA does in the bar but not at dinner). There must be many other details like this that I haven't found out about yet.

(2) A spreadsheet tends to rate things only by cost, not by quality -- so included tours all look the same, although they may be quite different based on the size of the walking group and quality of the guides; same with included wine (plonk vs. nectar of the gods).

 

That's why I prefer to compare the reviews and comments here on the River Cruising board to identify the lines that seem to provide a product that suits me. Enough people have concluded that the price differences vanish when you quantify all the inclusions on the apparently high-priced cruise lines, so that I feel confident focusing solely on quality. If there is a slightly higher cost in the end, I'm sure it's backed by a quality product. I'd rather pay a little more and be constantly delighted than save a few dollars and notice all the cut corners.

 

Great post, JB :) and I agree.

[Ozjohnno]

I can understand how making a spreadsheet seems helpful in comparing river cruises, but I think there are two difficulties that make it hard to get accurate results:

(1) It's very hard to tease out some of the differences between lines -- for example in two current threads it has become obvious that Uniworld, for all its luxury and inclusiveness, charges extra for a lot of excursions that others lines (AMA has been mentioned) include as free options, and that Vantage charges a corkage fee for wine while Viking does not (and AMA does in the bar but not at dinner). There must be many other details like this that I haven't found out about yet.

(2) A spreadsheet tends to rate things only by cost, not by quality -- so included tours all look the same, although they may be quite different based on the size of the walking group and quality of the guides; same with included wine (plonk vs. nectar of the gods).

 

 

 

That's why I prefer to compare the reviews and comments here on the River Cruising board to identify the lines that seem to provide a product that suits me. Enough people have concluded that the price differences vanish when you quantify all the inclusions on the apparently high-priced cruise lines, so that I feel confident focusing solely on quality. If there is a slightly higher cost in the end, I'm sure it's backed by a quality product. I'd rather pay a little more and be constantly delighted than save a few dollars and notice all the cut corners.

 

I've always appreciated your insight and input on these threads over the years and yes a spreadsheet only covers rating the cost of a cruise on a per diem basis using all available data like Uniworlds optional excursions BUT that was the question asked by the OP not whether the wine was "plonk". I find it somewhat insulting that those of us who take the considerable effort to find out the true price of a cruise are denigrated by those that obviously have the wealth to take yearly cruises based on perceived quality of a product as described by someone else. I'll continue to use a spreadsheet safe in the knowledge that at the end of the exercise I'll know how much the cruise will cost and you others can choose your next cruise based on your gut feelings.

[pacmom]

We are blessed to be able to travel about 3 times a year. We are not leaving much to the children, no one left us any. You must do research after you decide where you want to go. How much can you afford to spend and do you really want to spend that much. Yes there are differences in the lines, but the bottom line is the total amount you will be spending. Planning ahead can get you some very good savings and give a bit more wiggle room in the final amount. On our last Christmas market cruise with AMA, we , a group of 6, asked for "aquarium class" cabins. The TA we were working with managed to get us suites for the brochure price of the standard cabin. We had no other perks, but in 20 river cruises that was the best deal we've gotten. We are so fortunate to have so many lines from which to pick. Trip 21 coming up in the fall with Road Scholar on the Quadeliver in Spain. Pat

[Host Jazzbeau]

I find it somewhat insulting that those of us who take the considerable effort to find out the true price of a cruise are denigrated by those that obviously have the wealth to take yearly cruises based on perceived quality of a product as described by someone else.

 

Sorry John to have upset you again, and again unintentionally. I wasn't denigrating you or Tauck. While I still haven't sailed on Tauck (something I don't feel I can afford at their US$ prices), I still consider it the top of the line among river cruises and would never imply that they serve plonk. The point I was trying to make is that while your hard work on the spreadsheet may limit surprise expenses, it struck me from these recent posts that it won't completely eliminate them because there are always features that you don't know about -- and also that several recent posts have concluded from their spreadsheets that the price differences are actually very small in the end. Your experience on that latter point may be different, especially because different cruise lines seem to use very different exchange rates to the Australian $. I remain quite impressed that you were able to figure out that Tauck was actually a bargain for you, despite the general impression that they are expensive, and hope you can continue to find good value on your future cruises.

[Ozjohnno]

Sorry John to have upset you again, and again unintentionally. I wasn't denigrating you or Tauck. While I still haven't sailed on Tauck (something I don't feel I can afford at their US$ prices), I still consider it the top of the line among river cruises and would never imply that they serve plonk. The point I was trying to make is that while your hard work on the spreadsheet may limit surprise expenses, it struck me from these recent posts that it won't completely eliminate them because there are always features that you don't know about -- and also that several recent posts have concluded from their spreadsheets that the price differences are actually very small in the end. Your experience on that latter point may be different, especially because different cruise lines seem to use very different exchange rates to the Australian $. I remain quite impressed that you were able to figure out that Tauck was actually a bargain for you, despite the general impression that they are expensive, and hope you can continue to find good value on your future cruises.

 

How did Tauck get into this conversation? I didn't mention them. All I was doing was giving an example as how we gauged a per diem cost on a river cruise by using a spreadsheet. If you read these boards, research the companies brochures and take the time to list them all you will get a sound costing of any river cruise company. If I'm asked a question about Tauck or someone wants to compare Tauck I'll bring them into the conversation but I repeat all I was doing was bring a suggestion to the OP. Wine or food quality is a personal taste and can't be included in a cost analysis.

[Got2Cruise]

Even though I couldn't make an Excel spreadsheet if my life depended on it, a cost comparison per diem is a very good idea. This is especially true with the included excursions. Not every Basel-Rhine itinerary, for example, will have the same excursions or even the same port stops. This is where one should do their homework. Not go by what a stranger on Cruise Critic says is best. Let's face it, an opinion is just that. If they give a reason for their opinion and you are of the same mindset then fine otherwise use your own judgment.

[papa B me]

I'm afraid as we ponder the question together "to spreadsheet or not to spreadsheet" it is easy to miss the main point that those of us who are advocating a true price comparison have been trying to make to the OP. That is that when comparing two lines as I personally did in Viking vs Uniworld that if the items included in the more all inclusive line are added into the cost of the Viking fare then the cost differential isn't as dramatic as it first appears. At that point you can then start comparing the items that are difficult to quantify on a spreadsheet such as decor of ship, amenities, quality of food as you read the reviews of those who have sailed. And of course the starting point for all of this is the itinerary you are wanting to sail. Just one mans opinion

[notsodesperatehousewife]

I have begun researching river cruises and personally I find a spreadsheet (or some close note taking equivalent) to be very efficient as they all start to blend together fairly quickly and if I don't keep track I then end up doing the work all over again.

 

For me, I hate being nickled and dimed, especially if I'm paying for an upscale experience. So, for example, if the price ended up working out the same for tips included vs tips added, for example, I'd probably pick the more inclusive company because it would correspond more to my idea of "luxury." Then again, if there was a significant price differential, I'd be willing to pay a la carte. And the only way I could figure that out would be through a spreadsheet or similar.

 

But that's just me.

Edited April 4, 2015 by notsodesperatehousewife

[caviargal]

I find it somewhat insulting that those of us who take the considerable effort to find out the true price of a cruise are denigrated by those that obviously have the wealth to take yearly cruises based on perceived quality of a product as described by someone else. I'll continue to use a spreadsheet safe in the knowledge that at the end of the exercise I'll know how much the cruise will cost and you others can choose your next cruise based on your gut feelings.

 

I personally read nothing in any post that denigrated those with a preference to use spreadsheets to decide on a river cruise versus those of us that do not. It is simply a personal preference IMO and no one method is superior than the other.

 

I use Excel daily for work and personally to track things such as expenses for taxes at the end of the year. It is simply not something I use when planning a vacation.

 

I don't make decisions based on "perceived quality of a product as described by someone else". While I value the input of people with similar tastes and priorities, I have traveled enough to know what it important to me personally and what I choose to spend money on.

[Hoyaheel]

If I said instead that I make a decision matrix (because I am NOT just tracking numbers) would that make it easier to understand? I completely realize there are quality differences at play, and our decisions are based on far more than just the numbers (though for us, there are prices we are unwilling to pay for a trip).

 

My process was to make a decision matrix with cells for objective options (size of cabins, number of passengers, days of the itineraries we were tracking - could be multiple rows per line and/or boat) etc. Then I had cells for more "subjective" notes. All of these items together helped us keep track of the things we were interested in knowing before choosing a vacation.

 

I think everyone has some sort of decision matrix going on in their heads, even if it's very simple. I don't think anyone opens a brochure and says "I'm doing that" without doing any research at all. I could be wrong. I'm just quite explicit and spelled it all out, and I happened to use a computer program that had a couple of cells of numerical information in addition to the qualitative data.

 

I did a lot of research for the river cruise because it was our first. For other trips, where I have more experience, I won't do this much research because I already have an idea of the prices to expect and the type of accommodations etc we might want.

 

(yeah, I do research for a living, I'm brainwashed by the technique:rolleyes:)

Edited April 4, 2015 by Hoyaheel

[sengsational]

If you're familiar with "dealnews", a "hotness" of 5 out of 5 is a screamin' good deal, all things considered. The ATC means if the cruise was shunned by others because of some known factor, that would be considered in the hotness.

....(hotness) compares what this thing was recently really (not fictionally) selling for earlier, and now is less.

 

... if the difference between a deal hotness of 5/5, and a hotness of 2/5 is only 5%, it's not worth worrying about. But if it's 25%, that would get my attention.

I've been getting brochures from Viking for July/August that include air fare that might just be a "hotness" of at least a 3 of 5, but I thought I'd lay it out and ask here (prices per person, so twice that for both DW and I).

 

I'm comparing "Portraits of Southern France", "C" level (French balcony) room on one of the new longships in August. 7 nights, 7 shore excursions, and the normal Viking amenities, beer & wine, including airfare, transfers.

 

The price in the standard brochure is $4,851 (includes $1,295 airfare).

 

The special they're running now is $2999, "free airfare", which is a 38% discount off of the original brochure sent a few weeks earlier. If I back-off the airfare (at the brochure rate), the per diem (using "7" nights, not "8" days) comes to $243. If I back-off the airfare at the rate I just found on Kayak, it comes to $188! It's starting to look more like an ocean cruise rate, especially considering the price of a beer on the ocean cruises!

 

I presume that a lot of people booked at the $4,851 level (really selling for that price), so the 38% discount "got my attention".

 

This being my first river cruise, I figured going on Viking would be ok, especially if this price really is good. Those of you who are well-rounded river travelers that have strong preferences may not make take this offer seriously, but for me, what do you think of this deal?

[YoungDubFan]

Thanks for letting us know your decision. Only you will know if you are happy with it after you return from your cruise. For others reading this, some items I looked at before booking my first river cruise included cabin size - there really is a big difference between standard cabins on most lines. I travel with my mom and we like the cabin made up as 2 twins. This can change how spacious a cabin feels. I also look at total number of passengers - Viking's longships put 200 passengers into a space not much bigger than the other lines that typically have around 140. A final major factor in our decision was how much time was spent in each port. I was amazed at the difference based on lines as well as direction of travel. I also do a spread sheet that helps me look at what is really important.

[Canal archive]

I must admit spreadsheets aren't my thing although research is. I like to choose which route then do a pro's and con's list. So far for 4 cruises Scenic has come out on top what will happen when we choose a route that Scenic does not do is in the lap of the gods could be interesting.

CA 📷

[ural guy]

I've been getting brochures from Viking for July/August that include air fare that might just be a "hotness" of at least a 3 of 5, but I thought I'd lay it out and ask here (prices per person, so twice that for both DW and I).

 

I'm comparing "Portraits of Southern France", "C" level (French balcony) room on one of the new longships in August. 7 nights, 7 shore excursions, and the normal Viking amenities, beer & wine, including airfare, transfers.

 

The price in the standard brochure is $4,851 (includes $1,295 airfare).

 

The special they're running now is $2999, "free airfare", which is a 38% discount off of the original brochure sent a few weeks earlier. If I back-off the airfare (at the brochure rate), the per diem (using "7" nights, not "8" days) comes to $243. If I back-off the airfare at the rate I just found on Kayak, it comes to $188! It's starting to look more like an ocean cruise rate, especially considering the price of a beer on the ocean cruises!

 

I presume that a lot of people booked at the $4,851 level (really selling for that price), so the 38% discount "got my attention".

 

This being my first river cruise, I figured going on Viking would be ok, especially if this price really is good. Those of you who are well-rounded river travelers that have strong preferences may not make take this offer seriously, but for me, what do you think of this deal?

 

Sengsational- That's how I took my first cruise. I asked for a quote from Viking for a 10 day cruise, it was ridiculously high, so I figured I'd never cruise.

 

A week later I got an e-mail for the Grand European, 14 night cruise, w/ airfare for $4,000 usd. That's still a lot of money, but I went and had a blast. Especially since we had never been on any cruise, this blew us away. We're late 40's, have lived overseas, always traveled independently, no frills. So while Viking might not be as fancy as some lines, or the passenger count is the highest, or the food the best...it's still pretty good.

 

In your comparison, what makes the % off seem so high is that when you buy airfare, you are paying for high season, and only a few months in advance. Viking has big buying power, and must get nice discounts. I looked the price for our flights that were included in our $4,000 cruise; they were $1430, we booked 4 wks prior to sailing (JFK-AMS, BUD-JFK).

 

So yeah, if you have the money, and you can convince yourself it's a good deal, go for it. If you really want to save, you don't need the French Balcony, if that's an option. You could also stay a week on your own, for a little over a grand +, and that will really knock your cost/day down.

 

We liked cruising enough that we are going again....Oh, and I did do a spreadsheet. Length of trip, # of days on boat, # provided meals on pre tour in Transylvania, when are drinks included, cost to upgrade to french balcony, size of room...etc.

 

I picked Vantage for Bucharest to Budapest.

[Got2Cruise]

I think you'll be very happy on your cruise. You got a good price. Airfare to Europe averages at least $1000 and your price includes the fare. Viking is a mass-market line and has many satisfied customers. After your first river cruise most folks want to book their second.

[4774Papa]

Before I booked our first river cruise, I had received a lot of sales information from Viking.

 

However, I decided to compare river cruises and list what was or not included. Futher, I read all the reviews that I could find on cruise critic. There were not a lot of reviews, but they helped.

 

Also, I studied the ships.

 

First, I took each cruise line and figured out exactly how many days the cruise and land tour included (I took out the travel time).

 

Second, I added up the meals provided and tours(excursions) provided with the tour and kept the optional tours aside with cost to factor into the end product.

 

Third, I considered factors like quality of hotel, quality of ship, etc.

 

Fourth, I came up with a per day base price.

 

Fifth, I ranked each on a best value scale, starting with price, but weighing in the quality factors and what was included.

 

As it turned out, our first river cruise was in Russia. At that time only Vantage offered five star hotels while in the cities of Moscow and STP instead of commuting into the cities for tours on a bus or hydrofoil.

 

Vantage was the clear winner. Only Gate 1, a budget line was cheaper, but many of Gate 1 tours were extra, as well as the lesser number of days, etc.

 

I did the same thing for our China trip, with Vantage winning out over Viking and others.

 

We later took an AMA Rhone river cruise and tour because of the timing (we had a 7 day Med cruise and wanted to match it up with that one) AMA was great, but was more expensive.

 

We now have a Douro river cruise booked with Vantage, which again beat out Viking and others for price and comparing quality, etc.

 

 

Some people are happy with budget lines like Gate 1, others want more bells and whistles like Tauck, Uniworld, etc., but with their prices, we can do more cruises on Vantage.

[sengsational]

Thanks, all, for the input.

 

YoungDubFan, Getting time in port across multiple cruise lines and cruises must have been a challenge! But that's one thing that bugs me about the ocean cruises many times...by the time you finally get ashore, you've almost got to turn around so you don't miss the departure! BTW, Young Dubliners, the band?

 

ural_guy, I get that they (the cruise lines) must get a great deal on airfare. Staying on longer might be an option...good idea. But can't forgo the big window. Viking had a 7 night on an old ship, bottom deck, $2K with air (as opposed to new ship, french balcony, $3K with air). Even though it's 50% more money, I just couldn't get excited about the little window on the older ship because we often hang out in the room rather than the public spaces, so having to stand up and peer out the little window doesn't do it for us.

 

I'll have to check out some of these other cruise line suggestions for next year.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Viking had a 7 night on an old ship, bottom deck, $2K with air (as opposed to new ship, french balcony, $3K with air). Even though it's 50% more money, I just couldn't get excited about the little window on the older ship because we often hang out in the room rather than the public spaces, so having to stand up and peer out the little window doesn't do it for us.

 

I'll have to check out some of these other cruise line suggestions for next year.

 

Many people find they spend less time in their cabin on a river cruise than they are used to from the ocean ships -- and since Viking "stole" the space for the Verandas on the Longships from the French balcony cabins (only 135sf), you will probably agree. The only cabin we have had close to that size (NCL Dawn @ 141sf) was the only cabin that was unacceptably small. Our AMA French Balcony cabin @ 170sf was cozy but nice -- we wouldn't go smaller.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Host Jazzbeau

[sengsational]

Many people find they spend less time in their cabin on a river cruise than they are used to from the ocean ships -- and since Viking "stole" the space for the Verandas on the Longships from the French balcony cabins (only 135sf), you will probably agree.

I wonder what tricks all of these cruise outfits use to make the pictures of the rooms look bigger than they are....very wide angle lenses, I guess.

[YoungDubFan]

Sengsational- it took reading a lot of trip reports, cruise reviews & emails to the companies to get an idea about times in ports. Some lines it was more difficult to get. Many past passengers kept copies of their daily newsletters which had the info. It helped that I knew that I was doing a Rhine cruise so didn't have too many to compare. Yes Young Dubliners - my favorite band. I'm a tad Irish - hence the shamrock as well. Not many have heard of them.

[sengsational]

...daily newsletters...

That's a great idea. I posted PDF's of the first part of my last Princess cruise, but alas, I got tired of scanning and didn't get to the end of the pile.

 

... Yes Young Dubliners - my favorite band. I'm a tad Irish - hence the shamrock as well. Not many have heard of them.

Doesn't appear to be an easy way to send a PM on this board, so a little off-topic here, but I became a fan when I saw them play warm-up for Jethro Tull. I got my whole family to be fans too, lol!