Passport needed for St. Martin on closed loop?

[gogomargaux]

We are thinking of booking a last minute 8 day and DH would not have enough time to do the rush passport. Is this required now for this port? State department says yes but I see conflicting info online. Anyone been that didn't have one in these ports, were you able to get off the ship? And yes, we are aware of the risks, have the means to make arrangements, etc. thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SuiteTraveler]

"Barbados, Guadeloupe, Haiti, Martinique, St. Barts, St. Martin, and Trinidad and Tobago all require cruise passengers to have a valid passport in order to enter their countries."

 

The question to me is if the cruise line will allow your husband to board a cruise that stops in St. Martin without a passport. IF they do, then I guess he wouldn't be allowed off the ship in St. Martin, but the cruise line might not be willing to allow him to do that. I think you should call the cruise line and ask them as it is the only way to find out what they will allow. I would hate for you to pay for a cruise and then not be allowed to board.

 

Not sure why your husband can't use a passport expeditor to get an emergency renewal or new passport. Expediters can usually do it in as little as 24 hours as long as it is back to back business days.

Edited April 16, 2015 by SuiteTraveler

[cb at sea]

Nope. There is no problem getting on or off the ship with no passport. Passports are not needed for Americans on a closed loop cruise to ANY Caribbean country. NO Caribbean country requires passports for cruise passengers.

Edited April 16, 2015 by cb at sea

[gogomargaux]

...aaaand there's that conflicting info again. Ha! Thanks to both. Really hoping to hear from someone who sailed Carnival recently without passport to this island too!

 

Will call tomorrow but wanted some info before getting our hopes up. ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited April 16, 2015 by gogomargaux

[thinfool]

CB is right. No PP needed on a closed loop Caribbean cruise for a US citizen.

 

In St Martin, there is no one to look at a passport if you even took it ashore, which the majority of passport holders do not.

 

Generally, cruise passengers are viewed as 'passengers in transit' by the countries involved. They are not tourists on a holiday. A technicality for sure...but it is what it is.

 

As for the State Department, their information is accurate if you are visiting St. Martin on a 'land' vacation.

 

Otherwise the WHTI (Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative) as defined by DHS (Homeland Security) applies to closed loop cruises from a US port. Your husband can use a copy of his Birth Certificate and a govt issued photo ID. (drivers license)

[navybankerteacher]

Nope. There is no problem getting on or off the ship with no passport. Passports are not needed for Americans on a closed loop cruise to ANY Caribbean country. NO Caribbean country requires passports for cruise passengers.

 

I think you are mistaken, St. Bart's has recently been reported as requiring passports, and HAL has advised that passengers on cruises stopping at St. Bart's must have passports.

 

I am not aware of other country's/islands requirements, but it is worth checking.

[sail7seas]

Nope. There is no problem getting on or off the ship with no passport. Passports are not needed for Americans on a closed loop cruise to ANY Caribbean country. NO Caribbean country requires passports for cruise passengers.

 

How recent and confirmable is your information?

 

I also have been advised to bring my passport next time I travel to St. Bart's. I always have it but never needed it in the past.

 

[sail7seas]

Cruise lines will not let you embark the ship if you do not have all necessary travel documents. If any of the islands require a passport, you cannot board the ship without one. You will not be given a refund as it is the responsibility of the traveler to have all necessary travel papers.

 

[thinfool]

St Barts does indeed seem to be an exception.

 

However, the OP asked about St Martin.

[sail7seas]

St Barts does indeed seem to be an exception.

 

However, the OP asked about St Martin.

 

Indeed, and we have read on this forum that St. Martin is also requiring passports.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

So - bottom line (as I continuously try to stress) is get (or renew) a passport!

 

I won't bore you with the details but, post 9/11, the US strengthened the ID requirements for ALL merchant mariners entering the US. Within 24 hrs of the announcement, the PRC duplicated the requirement. Any crew attempting to sail into China was basically screwed without that visa.

A lot of CC folks forget that the world changes daily. At the very least, travelers need to have whatever is the gold standard of travel documentation. Pay now or pay later: get a passport, always monitor US State Department website for travel doc changes and enjoy your cruise.

[Shmoo here]

Found this on the US Department of State - Bureau of Consular Affairs website:

 

All U.S. citizens must have a U.S. passport for all air travel, including to and from Sint Maarten. All sea travelers must also now have a passport or passport card. We strongly encourage all U.S. citizen travelers to apply for a U.S. passport or passport card well in advance of anticipated travel. U.S. citizens can call 1-877-4USA-PPT (1-877-487-2778) for information on how to apply for their passports.

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/sint-maarten.html

[gogomargaux]

I did call Carnival, three separate people said no passport required. Something tells me not to trust a phone agent with limited knowledge. We are booking another cruise and will have time to get a passport back. The risk is ever so minimal something would happen while in port, but the chance of not being allowed to embark in Miami for lack of proper documents would put us out the cost of the cruise... And ruin a perfectly good amount of requested time off from work. You know, and a ton of money. St. Thomas it is!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SuiteTraveler]

I did call Carnival, three separate people said no passport required. Something tells me not to trust a phone agent with limited knowledge. We are booking another cruise and will have time to get a passport back. The risk is ever so minimal something would happen while in port, but the chance of not being allowed to embark in Miami for lack of proper documents would put us out the cost of the cruise... And ruin a perfectly good amount of requested time off from work. You know, and a ton of money. St. Thomas it is!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I don't blame you. I would not take the risk.

[sparks1093]

FWIW St Martin is on our itinerary for next year with CCL and the online check-in form still lists birth certificate as an option.

Edited April 16, 2015 by sparks1093

[fishywood]

Both the State Department Passport Site and the CBP website prominently display the customary statement:

 

*"Closed-Loop" Cruises: If you are a U.S. citizen, and you board a cruise ship at a U.S. port, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship, you may present government-issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or certified copy of your birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

In the world of government-speak I do believe the "all sea travelers must also now have a passport or passport card" statement is separate from the WHTI closed loop cruise rule. Most likely it refers to independent sea travelers who simply arrive without the pre-clearance that cruise passengers do to St. Maarten.

 

ETA: the country page for Frenh West Indies--which includes Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Barts and St Martin (just the French half?)--still specifically states that closed loop cruises only require a WHTI compliant document, so not necessarily a passport.

 

Thus contradictory info for St Martin/Sint Maarten (as well as contrary to the unattributed statement in post no. 2 above).

Edited April 16, 2015 by fishywood

[sparks1093]

Both the State Department Passport Site and the CBP website prominently display the customary statement:

 

 

 

In the world of government-speak I do believe the "all sea travelers must also now have a passport or passport card" statement is separate from the WHTI closed loop cruise rule. Most likely it refers to independent sea travelers who simply arrive without the pre-clearance that cruise passengers do to St. Maarten.

 

ETA: the country page for Frenh West Indies--which includes Martinique, Guadeloupe, St Barts and St Martin (just the French half?)--still specifically states that closed loop cruises only require a WHTI compliant document, so not necessarily a passport.

 

Thus contradictory info for St Martin/Sint Maarten (as well as contrary to the unattributed statement in post no. 2 above).

 

This is undoubtedly correct (one may reach a sea port of entry via something other than a cruise ship) but since the penalty is a denial of boarding with no possibility of recouping the cruise fare one must be very certain that they have the appropriate document to be allowed to board.

[njhorseman]

The State Department's website has had incorrect/misleading information on this issue for years...and not just for this island.

 

When the current closed loop cruise rules became effective on June 1, 2009, for some reason State never updated its site to reflect the correct rules in all cases to which they applied.

 

The cruise lines' websites actually have the correct information. Could you imagine what would happen if the cruise lines had to turn away hundreds of passengers every week at embarkation because their websites were wrong and a passport was actually required for US citizens on Western Hemisphere closed loop cruises? Does anyone seriously think this wouldn't have been a major issue that would have been reported both here on Cruise Critic and in the general press?

Edited April 16, 2015 by njhorseman

[sparks1093]

The State Department's website has had incorrect/misleading information on this issue for years...and not just for this island.

 

When the current closed loop cruise rules became effective on June 1, 2009, for some reason State never updated its site to reflect the correct rules in all cases to which they applied.

 

The cruise lines' websites actually have the correct information. Could you imagine what would happen if the cruise lines had to turn away hundreds of passengers every week at embarkation because their websites were wrong and a passport was actually required for US citizens on Western Hemisphere closed loop cruises? Does anyone seriously think this wouldn't have been a major issue that would have been reported both here on Cruise Critic and in the general press?

 

I have always suspected that there was a power play between DHS and State when they co-wrote the regulations and State did not get their way. I also suspect that this is one of the reasons that State changed the requirements for birth certificates submitted for passport issuance (requiring parents' names). I have nothing to back this gut feeling up, but since it is CBP that clears passengers they are the ones I rely on for information regarding documentation issues, not State.

[navybankerteacher]

FWIW St Martin is on our itinerary for next year with CCL and the online check-in form still lists birth certificate as an option.

 

Spelling counts. If your cruise stops at St. Maarten (Dutch side) all you need is BC and ID. But if your port of call is St. Martin (French side) you must have a passport if you want to get off the ship (you may or may not be permitted to board in the first place). Sure, it does not seem to make much sense, as many thousands cross into St. Martin after getting off their ship in St. Maarten - but that is the way it is. As a practical matter, not too many cruise ships stop in St. Martin, but there are several closed loop from San Juan which do - so while US rules may say "no problem", those rules do not trump St. Martin's policies.

 

So, as I said: "spelling counts".

[fishywood]

Spelling counts. If your cruise stops at St. Maarten (Dutch side) all you need is BC and ID. But if your port of call is St. Martin (French side) you must have a passport if you want to get off the ship (you may or may not be permitted to board in the first place).

 

Not to keep belaboring the point, but the US State Department country information for Sint Maarten (Dutch side) and French West Indies (French St Martin) gives exactly the opposite advice.

 

Guess we need to wait to hear from someone without a passport who was denied getting off the ship--or embarking at all--on a closed-looper to Dutch Sint Maarten.

[navybankerteacher]

Not to keep belaboring the point, but the US State Department country information for Sint Maarten (Dutch side) and French West Indies (French St Martin) gives exactly the opposite advice.

 

Guess we need to wait to hear from someone without a passport who was denied getting off the ship--or embarking at all--on a closed-looper to Dutch Sint Maarten.

 

You missed the point - there is no problem going to Dutch Sint Maarten with just BC and ID -- but you cannot get off a ship in French St. Martin without a passport. The same applies to St. Bart's - check with HAL.