Now that the fire is out

[Formerly known as Seabee]

Literally and figuratively....can someone on board FOS please tell those of us boarding Sunday if all the venues are open or which ones are still closed if any?

[loeytalldog]

I'm on FOS now and everything is open!

[DAGVBSB]

I was on the Freedom a couple weeks ago and after viewing the videos posted of the fire, I question RCCL's comment that the fire was in a Mechanical area on Deck 0.

 

If you look at a couple of the videos, there appears to be flames visible to the port side of the smokestack (near the rock climbing wall.) When we were on the Freedom two weeks ago, that area on the sports decks next to the Rock Climbing wall was closed off with construction walls and notes that said to pardon the dust, but they were upgrading that part of the sports deck. You could hear construction equipment being used inside and several times when we were eating in Johnny Rockets, construction workers would come through there wearing heavy outfits. (my brother in law even remarked how they looked like they were welders.)

 

Could the fire actually have been up on the Sports Deck and caused by the construction workers? (calling it an Engine fire on Deck 0 seems suspicious that the smoke would be coming from up there and none at all from the engine areas on the lower decks.

[chengkp75]

I was on the Freedom a couple weeks ago and after viewing the videos posted of the fire, I question RCCL's comment that the fire was in a Mechanical area on Deck 0.

 

If you look at a couple of the videos, there appears to be flames visible to the port side of the smokestack (near the rock climbing wall.) When we were on the Freedom two weeks ago, that area on the sports decks next to the Rock Climbing wall was closed off with construction walls and notes that said to pardon the dust, but they were upgrading that part of the sports deck. You could hear construction equipment being used inside and several times when we were eating in Johnny Rockets, construction workers would come through there wearing heavy outfits. (my brother in law even remarked how they looked like they were welders.)

 

Could the fire actually have been up on the Sports Deck and caused by the construction workers? (calling it an Engine fire on Deck 0 seems suspicious that the smoke would be coming from up there and none at all from the engine areas on the lower decks.

 

I don't recall them saying the mechanical room was on deck 0, but I may have missed that. Just to answer a couple of your points (and my theories on the fire are posted in the other thread):

 

The engine room takes in air for ventilation through fans and louvers up near the stack deck. The engine room exhausts its ventilation normally via fans that are located within that semi-open stack area. The doors to the engine rooms are A-60 fire doors, which means that a fire would have to burn against one side of the door before it would allow the fire to the other side of the door. These doors are built with fireproof gasketing, so very little smoke would come from them, and that would be the only place smoke would come from the engine rooms down lower.

[John&LaLa]

The construction work is to install exhaust scrubbers. It will move to the other side next

[Thetrail]

I was on the Freedom a couple weeks ago and after viewing the videos posted of the fire, I question RCCL's comment that the fire was in a Mechanical area on Deck 0.

 

If you look at a couple of the videos, there appears to be flames visible to the port side of the smokestack (near the rock climbing wall.) When we were on the Freedom two weeks ago, that area on the sports decks next to the Rock Climbing wall was closed off with construction walls and notes that said to pardon the dust, but they were upgrading that part of the sports deck. You could hear construction equipment being used inside and several times when we were eating in Johnny Rockets, construction workers would come through there wearing heavy outfits. (my brother in law even remarked how they looked like they were welders.)

 

Could the fire actually have been up on the Sports Deck and caused by the construction workers? (calling it an Engine fire on Deck 0 seems suspicious that the smoke would be coming from up there and none at all from the engine areas on the lower decks.

Show me any comment about deck 0....:cool::confused:

[WackyWayne]

Early (non-RCCL) reports of the fire might have mentioned/implied that it was an engine room fire. Possibly due to confusion between the terms "engine room" and "mechanical room"? The engine room is on deck #0, right?

 

on board reports:

http://cruisehangout.tumblr.com/post/124969184633/1st-hand-account-from-royal-caribbean-freedom-of

 

 

I would really like to see the Captain's explanation of what happened. Hopefully when the ship returns on Sunday, the guests on board will have an opportunity to upload and share more.

 

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article28293175.html

Fire suppression systems were “immediately activated,” according to a statement from the Miami-based cruise line, and extinguished the blaze within an hour and a half.

 

I would love to hear the opinions of those more knowledgeable than me about ships & fires, but taking 90 minutes to extinguish a fire sure sounds different than the reports that the fire was "quickly" extinguished. (I don't have an RCCL source to quote for the "quickly" aspect, but that is the impression given by the media http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/22/freedom-of-the-seas-catches-fire-in-jamaica and http://www.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/fire-extinguished-on-freedom-of-the-seas.html )

Edited July 25, 2015 by WackyWayne

[joepeka]

Early (non-RCCL) reports of the fire might have mentioned/implied that it was an engine room fire. Possibly due to confusion between the terms "engine room" and "mechanical room"? The engine room is on deck #0, right?

 

on board reports:

http://cruisehangout.tumblr.com/post/124969184633/1st-hand-account-from-royal-caribbean-freedom-of

 

 

I would really like to see the Captain's explanation of what happened. Hopefully when the ship returns on Sunday, the guests on board will have an opportunity to upload and share more.

 

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article28293175.html

 

 

I would love to hear the opinions of those more knowledgeable than me about ships & fires, but taking 90 minutes to extinguish a fire sure sounds different than the reports that the fire was "quickly" extinguished. (I don't have an RCCL source to quote for the "quickly" aspect, but that is the impression given by the media http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/22/freedom-of-the-seas-catches-fire-in-jamaica and http://www.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/fire-extinguished-on-freedom-of-the-seas.html )

 

See post #4 in this thread. The poster is very knowledgeable on ship construction, maintenance and operation.

[chengkp75]

Early (non-RCCL) reports of the fire might have mentioned/implied that it was an engine room fire. Possibly due to confusion between the terms "engine room" and "mechanical room"? The engine room is on deck #0, right?

 

The engineering spaces (commonly referred to as the engine room) run almost the full length of the ship on deck 0, and some on deck 1. However, the two actual engine rooms where the diesel engines are located have common space up to the stack deck (deck 13 or 14). The engine room ventilation exhaust fans are typically located in the structure behind the RCI logo on the stack, in between the actual engine exhausts, so any smoke generated in the engine rooms would manifest itself up there.

 

on board reports:

http://cruisehangout.tumblr.com/post/124969184633/1st-hand-account-from-royal-caribbean-freedom-of

 

 

I would really like to see the Captain's explanation of what happened. Hopefully when the ship returns on Sunday, the guests on board will have an opportunity to upload and share more.

 

 

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/tourism-cruises/article28293175.html

 

I would say its unlikely that the Captain will give a "complete explanation" of what happened, more than what he has said already. By this time, he has been instructed by corporate that all enquiries be directed to the corporate media and legal offices.

 

I would love to hear the opinions of those more knowledgeable than me about ships & fires, but taking 90 minutes to extinguish a fire sure sounds different than the reports that the fire was "quickly" extinguished. (I don't have an RCCL source to quote for the "quickly" aspect, but that is the impression given by the media http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/07/22/freedom-of-the-seas-catches-fire-in-jamaica and http://www.travelpulse.com/news/impacting-travel/fire-extinguished-on-freedom-of-the-seas.html )

 

I have not read the media links you give, but in general when reporting things like this, the media confuse a couple of terms. When a shipboard fire happens, the on scene commander will direct his fire teams to enter the space, and locate and evaluate the fire, and then determine the best method to extinguish it. When the fire is extinguished, he will report to the bridge that the fire is "out". At this time he will direct his teams to maintain "reflash watches" in areas of the fire zone. Reflash watches check areas of the space to see if hidden "hot spots" (smolders) are present that could reignite the fire, and to deal with these hot spots. My personal rule of thumb is to not release the fire teams before 30 minutes after the fire is "out", or until all of the space has been checked, whichever is longer. In a complex space like the engine room, this can take much longer than 30 minutes, because of all the little nooks and crannies where fire can hide. In reading the findings of the Carnival Splendor fire, this was the major cause of the ship being left without power, because the Captain demanded that ventilation be restored to the engine room prematurely, with the result that the fire reflashed not once, but twice, leading to the additional damage that left both engine rooms inoperative. Only when the on scene commander is satisfied that the fire scene is completely safe from further fire will he notify the bridge that the fire is "extinguished".

 

Without knowing where or what caused the fire (my theories are on the other thread), I cannot say whether the 90 minutes was "slow" or not, but in general, from detection to "extinguished" (as defined above) is not unreasonable for a machinery space fire. There can also be some misunderstanding of whether the 90 minutes was until the fire was "extinguished" or until the passengers were notified the fire was "extinguished" and released from muster.

[APDMOM]

I have not read the media links you give, but in general when reporting things like this, the media confuse a couple of terms. When a shipboard fire happens, the on scene commander will direct his fire teams to enter the space, and locate and evaluate the fire, and then determine the best method to extinguish it. When the fire is extinguished, he will report to the bridge that the fire is "out". At this time he will direct his teams to maintain "reflash watches" in areas of the fire zone. Reflash watches check areas of the space to see if hidden "hot spots" (smolders) are present that could reignite the fire, and to deal with these hot spots. My personal rule of thumb is to not release the fire teams before 30 minutes after the fire is "out", or until all of the space has been checked, whichever is longer. In a complex space like the engine room, this can take much longer than 30 minutes, because of all the little nooks and crannies where fire can hide. In reading the findings of the Carnival Splendor fire, this was the major cause of the ship being left without power, because the Captain demanded that ventilation be restored to the engine room prematurely, with the result that the fire reflashed not once, but twice, leading to the additional damage that left both engine rooms inoperative. Only when the on scene commander is satisfied that the fire scene is completely safe from further fire will he notify the bridge that the fire is "extinguished".

 

Without knowing where or what caused the fire (my theories are on the other thread), I cannot say whether the 90 minutes was "slow" or not, but in general, from detection to "extinguished" (as defined above) is not unreasonable for a machinery space fire. There can also be some misunderstanding of whether the 90 minutes was until the fire was "extinguished" or until the passengers were notified the fire was "extinguished" and released from muster.

 

Very interesting information! Thank you for sharing.

[WackyWayne]

Without knowing where or what caused the fire (my theories are on the other thread), I cannot say whether the 90 minutes was "slow" or not, but in general, from detection to "extinguished" (as defined above) is not unreasonable for a machinery space fire. There can also be some misunderstanding of whether the 90 minutes was until the fire was "extinguished" or until the passengers were notified the fire was "extinguished" and released from muster.

 

Thank you, sir. I have read your other posts in the other threads. It makes some sense that there are various definitions for "extinguished".

 

I have a question about "engine room ventilation". Is that truly just "ventilation for the room"? Like to keep the engine room cool(er) and breathable? I assume the actual engine intake is at the top of the ship, rather than consuming engine room air?

 

I haven't heard the FOS Captain speak about the fire yet, only RCCL Corp. So I am wondering/hoping if the Captain's video message to those on-board may contain more details than we have heard so far.

[Eng23]

I have not read the media links you give, but in general when reporting things like this, the media confuse a couple of terms. When a shipboard fire happens, the on scene commander will direct his fire teams to enter the space, and locate and evaluate the fire, and then determine the best method to extinguish it. When the fire is extinguished, he will report to the bridge that the fire is "out". At this time he will direct his teams to maintain "reflash watches" in areas of the fire zone. Reflash watches check areas of the space to see if hidden "hot spots" (smolders) are present that could reignite the fire, and to deal with these hot spots. My personal rule of thumb is to not release the fire teams before 30 minutes after the fire is "out", or until all of the space has been checked, whichever is longer. In a complex space like the engine room, this can take much longer than 30 minutes, because of all the little nooks and crannies where fire can hide. In reading the findings of the Carnival Splendor fire, this was the major cause of the ship being left without power, because the Captain demanded that ventilation be restored to the engine room prematurely, with the result that the fire reflashed not once, but twice, leading to the additional damage that left both engine rooms inoperative. Only when the on scene commander is satisfied that the fire scene is completely safe from further fire will he notify the bridge that the fire is "extinguished".

 

Without knowing where or what caused the fire (my theories are on the other thread), I cannot say whether the 90 minutes was "slow" or not, but in general, from detection to "extinguished" (as defined above) is not unreasonable for a machinery space fire. There can also be some misunderstanding of whether the 90 minutes was until the fire was "extinguished" or until the passengers were notified the fire was "extinguished" and released from muster.

I agree completely with these comments. I am a federal firefighter for the US Navy trained in shipboard firefighting. As mentioned the fire itself can be extinguished quickly but part of the entire firefighting process includes the reflash watches, checking for fire extension to other compartments or spaces, ventilation of the affected areas when it is safe to ventilate, damage assessment and ship stability assessment. These actions can last 60-90 minutes or longer if necessary.

[chengkp75]

Thank you, sir. I have read your other posts in the other threads. It makes some sense that there are various definitions for "extinguished".

 

I have a question about "engine room ventilation". Is that truly just "ventilation for the room"? Like to keep the engine room cool(er) and breathable? I assume the actual engine intake is at the top of the ship, rather than consuming engine room air?

 

I haven't heard the FOS Captain speak about the fire yet, only RCCL Corp. So I am wondering/hoping if the Captain's video message to those on-board may contain more details than we have heard so far.

 

The engine room will have forced mechanical ventilation (fans) that take in air around the upper deck areas (typically above the highest guest area). These fans distribute air through ducting to the various levels of the engine room for comfort and ventilation, and there will be a duct pointing at the turbocharger intake right at the engine. Supply air is also brought to the boilers for combustion. Most of the air is delivered to the lowest decks, and then the hot air rises through the "engine casing" up to the exhaust fans at the top of the engine room in the "stack". The supply fans will provide more air than the exhaust fans take out, allowing for the necessary combustion air in the engines and boilers, and also to provide a slight positive pressure.

[Tough as Leather]

Photos of the damage on Freedom

 

Edited July 26, 2015 by Tough as Leather

[chengkp75]

That definitely looks like it is in the area where the scrubber is being installed. There may have been an exhaust gas leak in this area that ignited the scrubber space.

[RSLeesburg]

That definitely looks like it is in the area where the scrubber is being installed. There may have been an exhaust gas leak in this area that ignited the scrubber space.

 

 

For a layman, that looks like serious damage. Do you think this can be repaired without taking the ship out of service?

[emmy]

Back in her home port now. :) :) Arrived about 5:30 am eastern

 

[chengkp75]

For a layman, that looks like serious damage. Do you think this can be repaired without taking the ship out of service?

 

Absolutely. They already have "construction" boards up in that area, it will just mean the contractors will be onboard longer, and at each turn-around they will be lifting more stuff up there. Most of that area is non-structural, and not a lot of vital stuff up there. Again, you've got to realize that most of the stuff up there is aluminum, so it melts out far more easily than steel, so it looks worse than it is. It appears that there is a lot of foam residue in those photos, which always makes things look worse. Surprised those photos got out there, sure there will be a "investigation" by RCI as to who took these, as these are in crew only areas.

Edited July 26, 2015 by chengkp75

[monorail81]

How long does in normally take for them to insall the scrubbers?

[chengkp75]

How long does in normally take for them to insall the scrubbers?

 

That's a bit hard to say, as this is relatively new technology. Installation and "commissioning" would be two different things. Commissioning would be the time when the unit is finally tested, calibrated, and certified to meet the ECA emission standards.

 

As to installation, I believe that RCI is using the multi-engine type of scrubber, most likely one on port and one on starboard. These require a lot of piping changes as you need to route the exhaust to/from the scrubber, and provide the necessary sliding gate valves to allow bypassing the scrubber when outside the ECA. Since the ship needs multiple engines at various times during the cruise, generally only one engine can be taken off line to connect the exhaust to the scrubber at a time. So, I would estimate that 6-8 months, while in service would be about right for the actual installation. Then it could be another 2-3 months to tune things up and get the system up and running.

[reallyitsmema]

For those that might be interested, the Port Canaveral webcam operator keeps zooming in on the area of the ship that had the fire. Can't really see much, but worth a look.

 

http://www.portcanaveralwebcam.com/

 

Edit to add:

 

She is leaving port right now.

Edited July 26, 2015 by reallyitsmema

[Thetrail]

Absolutely. They already have "construction" boards up in that area, it will just mean the contractors will be onboard longer, and at each turn-around they will be lifting more stuff up there. Most of that area is non-structural, and not a lot of vital stuff up there. Again, you've got to realize that most of the stuff up there is aluminum, so it melts out far more easily than steel, so it looks worse than it is. It appears that there is a lot of foam residue in those photos, which always makes things look worse. Surprised those photos got out there, sure there will be a "investigation" by RCI as to who took these, as these are in crew only areas.

Doing a B2B on her next April so it sounds like plenty of time to have Freedom looking nice and shiny by then....:)

[John&LaLa]

Doing a B2B on her next April so it sounds like plenty of time to have Freedom looking nice and shiny by then....:)

 

Depending on the delay, you might have scrubber contractors over on the DL side next spring

[UniPac]

So, I would estimate that 6-8 months, while in service would be about right for the actual installation. Then it could be another 2-3 months to tune things up and get the system up and running.

 

Good estimation, that was about what I was told few months ago when asking the supervisor of the company installing the scrubber system on the Celebrity Solstice.

[orville99]

The construction work is to install exhaust scrubbers. It will move to the other side next

 

Is that what this is? This was on the Terminal One dock in PC this week.