Silversea Water Cooler: Welcome! Part Two

[Fletcher]

Love the plastic chair!

[mysty]

All part of the reality here. :) It was an amazing site!

[UKCruiseJeff]

Lovely piccies M!

 

Good to see that King David's Tomb is protectedby CCTV!

 

:D

 

Jeff

[TLCOhio]

Having had a congenial lunch with The Queen and The Duke, Obama tells the British people that they will be at the end of the queue when it comes to trade deals with the US if they vote to leave the EU. Do I hear a backfire? Jeff

 

mysty: Ashdod and Haifa' date=' Israel. Greetings Coolers! Hope everyone is doing well! Looking forward to reading your blog JP! Hope all those on ships currently are enjoying themselves! We spent [b']Thursday and Friday in Israel[/b]. I was a little nervous about being there because of the bus that had been bombed in the Jerusalem area a couple of days ahead of our visit. I need not have worried. Israel is a beautiful country and we loved our time there. Security is definitely tight and very visible. On Thursday we took the Day in Jerusalem tour from Ashdod. Here is a picture from King David's Tomb.

 

UKCruiseJeff: Lovely BBC programme this evening for the Queen's 90th birthday. I wasn't optimistic' date=' but what a gem it was. Full of previously unseen private footage of the family, with the Queen and the rest of the royal family watching it and talking about it. [/quote']

 

Appreciate the continued super fun pictures from mysty's excellent adventure. Keep 'em coming. Can't get enough, especially since we have not, yet, been to Israel and certain other nearby Middle East locations.

 

Congrats to the Queen!! Having your 90th birthday is great and she looks wonderful, along with Prince Phillip, who is nearing his 95th birthday.

 

Agree with Jeff for how "uncool" it was for Obama to be throwing the UK "under the bus" with the blunt threat to have them at the end of line on an future trade deals. Lots of coverage here and in London for why Obama even wanted to and/or needed to get in the middle of this UK decision/choice for whether to continue as a part of the EU. Am I correct, Jeff and others, that this June 23 UK vote involves economics, controlling the borders and protecting your country from being under the control of Euro bureaucrats in Brussels, etc.?? Lots of trade-offs, pro-con factors with this vote and decision. Is that a correct summary? What else am I missing??

 

Notice that Germans were protesting this morning about any potential future trade deal with the U.S. Lots of tensions and questions on these trade pacts.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2010, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 197,406 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[57 varieties]

TLCOhio our locality is crawling with police - Obama and Cameron playing golf round the corner at The Grove.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[UKCruiseJeff]

Hi Terry,

 

As with all seemingly simple things I fear the reality this is a highly complex issue.

 

It seems to me that in simple terms there is one side who wish to stay who are primarily motivated by the fear of leaving and to a lesser degree a positive disposition generaly towards the benefit of continued membership.

 

I do not belive the majority of "leavers" are primarily motivated by the notion that economically we will be better off (although I believe most feel in time they will be) but more a feeling of wishing to regain sovereignty. I think most of those feel that they were conned into believing the country agreed for a free trade zone when politicians knew they were aiming for subservience to a master structure. We also have simple easilly understood things to fear like all these other countries being allowed free access to the UK in the future for example Turkey. If you drill down further we have the situation where we have Turkey now mandating to Germany that they must prosceute a satirist and imprison him under some ancient laws that make illegal insulting heads of state (Turkey's President) and it seems that Merkel is hunmouring that request, simply because of immigration and Syria. This is just one of many situations that alarm people that can think. Also most people I think view the general trajectory of Europe, particularly with us outside the single currency, we do not feel we can influence and do not like the direction. So it is fear that is the lever rather than optimism.

 

In trying to make sense of all this I have concluded that the nearest position we are now in is fairly closely comparable to the cosa nostra. I know that sounds rediculous superficially and extremely wierd but if you look more closely basically we are being blackmailed into subscribing very high amounts of monthly cash in exchange for the permission to trade (with the threat we will not be able to trade if we do not pay and do as we are told) to an organisation over which we have no say and who tells us what to do. Large amounts of cash are being syphoned off. No accounts have ever been audited and approved. Votes and governance are bribed through irregular "supports". We have lost self-governance and no longer own even our borders. What other structure exists like this in the world other than the mafia?

 

The has been an abuse of the term "certainty" by the "remainers". They constantly say that uncertainty is the reason why we should remain. But certainty isn't always a good thiong and uncertainty isn't a bad thing per se. They both might be. If you were for example offering a person who is certainly going to be executed tommorow morning the chance of a risky escape where there is a 90% chance he may be shot whilst attempting escape then you might conclude that certainty isn't as good as uncertainty. I could give many examples.

 

The issue with the exit group is that they cannot state what exit looks like because we cannot engage the scenario until after exit. For what it's worth I think we will suffer for a while and then we will be in a better situation than we would have been had we remained. So the leavers are being punished by not being able to explain what leaving will immediately look like. Obama suggesting that there is a queue of states wishing to agree trading terms and they can only do one at a time ie a line or a queue - and implying that all trade between us will suddenly stop - is simply disingenuous. It treats us as fools. I also feel that Obama has had a less close relationship with the UK tha his predecessors, has been a source of dissapointment, and I guess many people who follow things feel he has lost currency because we are dissapointed with him when we had such high hopes .......and perhaps his political ineptitude "caused" the rise of Trump as an antidote to his style of presidency. We all fear Trump I think. So I think Brits admire him less than our leaders. But those are different issues.

 

On balance I think (and hope) that Obama's intervention will backfire. I say this because I believe that this will be decided by those with firmly held beliefs and many do not like being bullied. I think that the leavers hold the view more strongly than the remainers. I also feel the leavers are more likely to be older and understand the original promises, and also view change more optimistically than younger people. Older people and people with stronger opinions are more likely to turn out and actually vote compared to younger people and those who don't really care. So it may be decided on those grounds. I really hope so.

 

I do not know whether any of this makes any sense, you asked ... I answered and it is complex, and I'm posting without typo corrections for which I apologise in advance. This is of course simply my opinions and others will hold the opposite views which are equally worthy of respect.

 

:)

 

Jeff

Edited April 23, 2016 by UKCruiseJeff

[TLCOhio]

Hi Terry, As with all seemingly simple things I fear the reality this is a highly complex issue. I do not belive the majority of "leavers" are primarily motivated by the notion that economically we will be better off (although I believe most feel in time they will be) but more a feeling of wishing to regain sovereignty. I think most of those feel that they were conned into believing the country agreed for a free trade zone when politicians knew they were aiming for subservience to a master structure. If you drill down further we have the situation where we have Turkey now mandating to Germany that they must prosceute a satirist and imprison him under some ancient laws that make illegal insulting heads of state (Turkey's President). For what it's worth I think we will suffer for a while and then we will be in a better situation than we would have been had we remained. I also feel that Obama has had a less close relationship with the UK tha his predecessors. On balance I think (and hope) that Obama's intervention will backfire. I think that the leavers hold the view more strongly than the remainers. I also feel the leavers are more likely to be older and understand the original promises. Older people and people with stronger opinions are more likely to turn out and actually vote compared to younger people and those who don't really care. I do not know whether any of this makes any sense, you asked ... I answered and it is complex. Jeff

 

57 varieties: TLCOhio our locality is crawling with police - Obama and Cameron playing golf round the corner at The Grove.

 

Appreciate so much Jeff's keen insights and perspectives on the various issues and factors leading up to the UK vote as to whether to stay in or out with parts of the EU control/economics. Yes' date=' it is "complex", but you bring up [b']excellent points about voter "intensity" and interest[/b]. Different groups look at issues in varied manners. Some do remember the earlier, original "promises", what "goods" have been delivered and others aspects ignored, etc. I have highlighted some of Jeff's points that were most important for me in gaining a better understanding on this issue.

 

Glad to get 57 varieties' insider tips about Obama and Cameron playing golf. Yes, Obama does love to play golf, plus traveling and enjoying the fun of riding on Air Force One.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Did a June 7-19, 2011, cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Dozens of nice visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. We are now at 211,728 views for this live/blog re-cap, including much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

Edited April 23, 2016 by TLCOhio

[UKCruiseJeff]

Terry,

 

For what it is worth, and I recognise that it is as close to nil as it might be, I feel that Obama's comments are really quite bad. In my view it calls into question a fundamental question about "the special relationship" ... if such a thing exists between our two countries.

 

The question I think is, if there is a special relationship between the US and the British, is that special relationship solely the relationship between The President and The Prime Minister or is it the people of the US and the British? If it was as many of us believed it to be a special relationship between Americans and the British, then I would expect Obama to have said "The people of Britain must decide their own destiny and whatever they decide we as a part of our "Special Relationship" will respect their views and use our best endevours to ensure the Special Relationship between our two countries continues as seemlessly as possible with continuing trade and mutually beneficial cooperation". What he has indicated instead is that he does not respect the wishes of the British people for freedom of determination but the Special Relationship is in fact one confined to the relationship of mutual support between The President and Prime Minister. He is blackmailing us inot compliance with his wishes. This evening he has said to the British that we can wait 10 years for a trade treaty if we leave.

 

So, forgive me. I am angry with Obama. I think he has sought to cause damage to what is more important, and to "ordinary" people quite sacred, and that is the special relationship between the people of Britain and the people of the United States.

 

He has even during this visit sought to trade on the use of sacrificed lives of Americans in support of the British. He should remember it was American people and British people that sacrificed whilst the politicos were safely and comfortable and remotely ensconced. away from harms way. He should remember that those lives were sacrificed in pursuit of freedom. It seems to me that people in both the US and the UK are cynical and disengaged with politics and politicians. As a result you have Trump and we have UKIP. If nothing else I think he has probably caused in one speech that around 50% of the British public to despise both him and his office for being so disprespectful to the notion of democracy and in particular the British who feel as strongly about British freedom of self-determination as Americans feel very strongly about theirs. In the long term, if that causes a vote to "stay" then I think that harm will remain for some time.

 

I hope you can understand. And for the removal of all doubt this is the view of a single person, and I hope others will chip in with their views as they feel fit.

 

Jeff

Edited April 24, 2016 by UKCruiseJeff

[les37b]

It's not the views of a single person Jeff, I think you will find its the views of a huge number of people.

 

The EU is effectively run by the Germans and lesser extent, the French. It seems any "concessions" we are given, we still end up deeper into policies and laws we don't agree with.

 

Of course you mustn't forget. We do actually comply with EU regulations we sign up for. Can you say the same for the French?

 

I used to be someone fearful of change and possible detrimental damage to banking and suchlike. I don't think physical trade would be effected that much. The EU wants to sell to us as well and since we buy from them more than we sell, they would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces. Unfortunately I do concede they might be happy to do exactly that. As you eluded to. No to blackmail and if Obama thinks for one moment telling us we can only be friends if we are in the EU (with this imaginary influence) then he can go to hell also.

 

On a brighter note, I find myself back home and rather fuller than I was 12 days ago!

 

Things are a bit tighter and I need to breath in to fit into things!

 

https://theta360.com/s/nA0PqV3L48lcRH9gln1qbD34a

 

https://theta360.com/s/dzoheA4F45XQLh0p8YW7lKuPo

 

https://theta360.com/s/obmL4B42wdcL0XVZHpA7cBUQa

 

Sitting with the gods!

 

Don't forget to zoom in and out and move about!!

 

 

.

Edited April 24, 2016 by les37b

[les37b]

On a side note, we our on Carnival Vista taking the kids in August. Having seen the differences faced by passengers in Monaco with the queues for tendering (they must have queued for hours!!) it makes me ask the question.... How long does it take to get 4000 people ashore.... Especially to get on trips booked!!

 

Wind and extras outside the casino in Monaco.

 

I'm cringing now at the prospect after Wind and Cloud cruises!!

[mjnvoyager]

I do so agree with you both on all the points you have brought up about the recent Obama visit. I am firmly in the out camp but am afraid that his recent comments will have swayed that tranche of people who are undecided. I am still puzzled by the polls. I have talked to many friends, acquaintances, and even strangers to engage in debate over this subject and am finding the vast majority want out. Yet we are consistently told that the polls are swinging towards staying in. Heard on the radio this morning that The Sun ( which is for out) suggests that following Obamas intervention it may end up 60/40 to stay in. I despair.

Jane

[les37b]

I do so agree with you both on all the points you have brought up about the recent Obama visit. I am firmly in the out camp but am afraid that his recent comments will have swayed that tranche of people who are undecided. I am still puzzled by the polls. I have talked to many friends, acquaintances, and even strangers to engage in debate over this subject and am finding the vast majority want out. Yet we are consistently told that the polls are swinging towards staying in. Heard on the radio this morning that The Sun ( which is for out) suggests that following Obamas intervention it may end up 60/40 to stay in. I despair.

Jane

 

Likewise. If I used the polls I've conducted with friends, I'd say the outs win by 90% to 10%. Amongst those are bond traders who must surely be more fearful than most.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I want the polls to stay as they are. They do not effect people's opinions much, but they do have an influence on whether people bother to vote or not.

 

Remainers hopefully will feel their vote isn't needed and stay away, particularly the borderline lazy, and a higher percentage of the leavers will actually vote.

 

I find myself wondering how many people are impressed with the swaggering show-offy nature of Obama's visit. Older people of courtsey like me will not be impressed he got in to the Landrover ahead of the queen (slightly) without ensuring even that she was safely in. And The Beast and motorcade in Downing Street was just plain silly. That three point turn! Has it not become an object of derision? Boris is in more danger in Londopn than Obama, and he still uses his bike! :D

 

Those with a long memory might remember I got the Scottish referendum right to 0.1% when the media were saying "out", but this one has floored me completely. I'm much more nervous.

 

Jeff

[mjnvoyager]

Like you I can usually get the "feel" of an election/ referendum but I'm swinging from hope to pessimism almost daily. Think this week that the Brexit camp will be out in force on immigration. Though I am not always comfortable with the tone of that debate it is a strong suit that might sway some people.

[UKCruiseJeff]

I think the problem is that the exit argument has become to out of focus and blurred. There needs to be a clearer message. It seems to me to be something along the lines of "sometimes what is certain is much more frightening than what is uncertain. How do you feel about the certain propsect of potentially unlimited numbers of Turks, Macedonians, Montenegrans, Albanians, and Serbians all arriving as a matter of right at our borders demanding entry to enjoy the benefits of free schooling, first class health benefits, free emergency housing, and the joys of the very high minimum wage."

 

It is clear that the next entrant will be Turkey and they have already made it clear that integration isn't their aim. They want everyone else to be subverted to their laws and ways.

 

I think I'll have another cider.

 

Jeff

[les37b]

I think the problem is that the exit argument has become to out of focus and blurred. There needs to be a clearer message. It seems to me to be something along the lines of "sometimes what is certain is much more frightening than what is uncertain. How do you feel about the certain propsect of potentially unlimited numbers of Turks, Macedonians, Montenegrans, Albanians, and Serbians all arriving as a matter of right at our borders demanding entry to enjoy the benefits of free schooling, first class health benefits, free emergency housing, and the joys of the very high minimum wage."

 

It is clear that the next entrant will be Turkey and they have already made it clear that integration isn't their aim. They want everyone else to be subverted to their laws and ways.

 

I think I'll have another cider.

 

Jeff

 

The population within Turkey has also made it clear that there is a large percentage who either fully support or sympathies / backing in principle of ISIS. We already have enough of those in the UK now, we certainly don't want any more. I know one of the "concessions" the UK have put forward is a deferral of new EU members rights of movement of 10 years. Isn't that rather short sighted? Does it really make ANY difference at all?

 

Of course the other thing that no one is picking up on is a vote for in, will be used to say all future legislation has already been given a green light and approval by the British population. On the other side, it's suggested by the in camp, the EU is needed to keep our own politicians in check. There may be some merits in that. I mean, let's face it, the next in (Turkey) has such high regard for civil liberties and human rights. I'm sure they will change because they are members lol

 

I'll have another cider too.... Make mine a Savanna.

Edited April 24, 2016 by les37b

[UKCruiseJeff]

A lot of the commentary seems to agree that Obama and many of the US executive, and perhaps wider, totally misunderstand or not understand the EU or what it is all about. It also seems that they over-estimate their popularity within the politics of Europe. Perhaps it's also true of Brits.

 

They do not seem to understand that we have not had any influence within the EU at all, and a vote to stay in will as you say make it even worst if such a scenario is possible - and nor will we whilst we remain in but outside the Euro are not in the faster integration inner gang. We will always be told to shut up and go away. It seems to me that we couldn't have less influence, but could only have more from outside on those issues important to the UK. I am fed up with hearing this nonsense that we have influence and it is better to be in to facilitate change and I'm perplexed why so many don't question it.

 

I had some boxed red as well as cider.

 

Jeff

[TLCOhio]

Terry, For what it is worth, and I recognise that it is as close to nil as it might be, I feel that Obama's comments are really quite bad. In my view it calls into question a fundamental question about "the special relationship" ... if such a thing exists between our two countries. Jeff

 

Appreciate the added comments and excellent insights from Jeff and others about Obama, the UK/USA special relationship, etc. I have lots of opinions and details on the current US President, but I do not view it as appropriate to "go there" at this web location. Hope you understand. I am not shy. BUT, I just like to stay properly focused and not offend some people here.

 

From the UK, however, keep it coming on the details about this upcoming voting as to whether or not to exit the EU. There are still two months until that vote. It will be important!! Lots of good points have been made about the roles played by Germany and France as to how the economic and government control "games" are played by those two countries versus the UK. The idea of a "United States of Europe" sounded wonderful in concept and on paper. How it "worked" and who controlled what has been a far different challenge. Good discussions about these many questions still to be resolved.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

Enjoyed a 14-day, Jan. 20-Feb. 3, 2014, Sydney to Auckland adventure, getting a big sampling for the wonders of "down under” before and after this cruise. Go to:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1974139

for more info and many pictures of these amazing sights in this great part of the world. Now at 141,214 views for this posting.

[mjnvoyager]

Just enjoyed a glass of champagne and some good red, followed by long roast lunch with family. Relaxing now and girding the loins for yet another week of debate and argument. Let's hope it's better than the week just gone. Must apply for postal vote. Will be on the Cloud when the vote takes place.

Jane

[UKCruiseJeff]

We had some champers today as well ...... a newly married couple moved in to a house close by and they are off on their honeymoons this evening so we thought we'd give them a glass or four to send them off happy and confused.

 

I was dissapointed with the Andrew Neil programme today, I'd hoped he'd spend more time on the topic. It is interesting to see how self-serving the politicos have become. It seems to me that if any of the EU members were voting for it today no country would have a majority. It's only the politco gravy trains that are for it.

 

The thought of what the UK will be like to live in in ten years iif we remain in is a terrible thought.

 

Ah well ...... "drink, drink, drink ........"

 

Jeff

[Tothesunset]

More important than the Brexit debacle is the fact that Leicester City need only secure 5 points from their last 3 matches to guarantee the Premiership title. Fewer if Spurs slip up. Could it really happen?

 

Not so good news that the Tigers lost their European Cup semi-final to Racing but you can't have it all.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Tothesunset

[mjnvoyager]

Did you hear "the Reunion" on BBC 4 this morning. All about the Maastrict treaty. Very interesting with what's going on at the moment. With the benefit of hindsight, it was the beginning of the end. Jane.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Did you hear "the Reunion" on BBC 4 this morning. All about the Maastrict treaty. Very interesting with what's going on at the moment. With the benefit of hindsight, it was the beginning of the end. Jane.

 

No I didn't Jane,

 

Then or Us by Nick Robinson on BBC 2 seemed to give a highly factual history if you didn't catch it. Should be on iplayer.

 

Jeff

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35996621

[Fletcher]

In honour of one of our EU partners I cooked a paella last night. It was my 'home cooked' version which is simpler than the classic paellas which also include calamari and mussels. Even so, it was a tasty little snack -

 

[UKCruiseJeff]

Nice Paella fletch.

 

Funnily enough I was thinking of paella last night. I plan to do some stuffed peppers, with the stuffing being paella. Obviously small "bits" rather than large "bits".

 

Jeff