Australia restriction on creditcards

[Corfe Mixture]

Here in Europe, the transition to chip and pin was assured over ten years ago when the card issuers motivated retailers to upgrade their POS systems by announcing that, from 1st January 2005, if an online POS terminal had verified the pin and authorised the transaction, then they would offer retailers protection against fraud.

 

However retailers who used non-EMV technology, e.g. stripe/chip and signature, would be liable for any fraudulent transactions. They sustained this argument by pointing out that the retailer carrying the loss associated with credit card signature fraud is no different from them carrying the loss associated with accepting a forged banknote.

 

Guess what? It didn't take long for retailers to work out that at less than $100per terminal they only needed to avoid one or two fraudulent transactions to justify the cost of upgrading their POS systems.

 

All seemed very logical to us.

[lilly4350]

Help....on the roll call for a Australian departure and return cruise.I was advised that it is no longer possible to sign for a credit card charge That you have to have some sort of special pin number....This change is recent and is crazy.... I assume you have to apply for some sort of ATM card in Australia to get one... as I have never had a"pin" connected to any credit card and only use credit cards , not cash, for all foreign expense.

 

Please advise as this is the second time I have had , in 4 months, credit card problems in Australia..where a Hotel would not accept a card with a 5 figure open line on it...

 

Even though we have chips and PIN on our credit cards in Australia, you can still sign when you are using a foreign credit card. So there should be no need for you to make any changes to the way you do things now.

[newport dave]

Australia, Britain and other commonwealth countries many years ago sat down and figured out a "scheme" to get people to give up their credit cards and the bank forced in to giving interest free money to their customers. Thus the selling of the debit card...where the bank gets you to give them an interest free loan and deposit where they play with your deposit !

 

The pin concept is just a sneaky attempt to convert your credit card into a defacto debit card that will improve their profits so they can eventually reducing, slowly the amount they have to advance . By saying its for security sounds so warm and caring...how could you be upset!!!

Trust me they are truly thinking of you and getting deeper into your warm pockets. I don't want a pin...or use a ATM. or have a ATM card. that's why I carry only 2 cards with substantial depth.. I have in 40 years, never had a problem...ever.

 

So this, along with all the Australian taxes and fee charges and% B.S. was the last straw to me....I cancelled the cruise and future plans to end or start in OZ. I have been traveling to Australia since 1997.... and financial situation seems to be getting tougher and tougher......

 

Call it aesthetics if you wish but there comes appoint when all the games just get to you.

 

In the UK debit cards are linked to your current(checking in the USA) account are used instead of cheques or cash. So when you use them, they take the money directly out of your account. You can also use them at ATM machines to withdraw cash from your account. Credit cards are completely different, both are used widely by most people.

[caribill]

Here in Europe, the transition to chip and pin was assured over ten years ago when the card issuers motivated retailers to upgrade their POS systems by announcing that, from 1st January 2005, if an online POS terminal had verified the pin and authorised the transaction, then they would offer retailers protection against fraud.

 

However retailers who used non-EMV technology, e.g. stripe/chip and signature, would be liable for any fraudulent transactions. They sustained this argument by pointing out that the retailer carrying the loss associated with credit card signature fraud is no different from them carrying the loss associated with accepting a forged banknote.

 

 

Basically that is what is causing the change in the USA. Starting later this year merchants that do not use the chip technology will be responsible for any fraudulent charges. However, "chip and sign" is OK. That will not reduce fraud from stolen cards, but will reduce it from those who make up fake credit cards with real numbers.

 

Also, Internet credit card transactions make no use of the chip technology, so the chip technology will not reduce fraud from stolen credit card numbers on the Internet.

 

How does Europe deal with Internet credit card charges?

[Enforcer]

Hi,

 

Not wanting to upset the American readers but I travel a fair bit in Europe and N. America. It really seems archaic the way I have to use my credit card in the USA, signing, swiping etc. I am used to entering my pin for a transaction and it seems so much safer. The only time in 40 years of using "plastic" that I have had a problem has been in the USA where a transaction was refused because my bank thought it was fraudulent because of the US system.

 

Pete

[azbirdmom]

Chase will issue a pin for your card if you need it. I had to get that a couple of years ago when we cruised out of Denmark. It didn't turn my credit card into a debit card, it just provided what was required by the country.

[Homosassa]

At leaast two chains here in Florida have changed to chip credit card readers (Publix Supermarkets and Walmarts). You can also swipe the old way if your card has not been upgraded.

 

It was also nice that on a recent trip out of state where we forgot to notify the credit card company of our plans that when we used the chip card reader, our rather large purchase was verified by needing to enter the PIN. It saved the transaction from being denied .

[john watson]

My experience of chip and pin cards is that you are usually allowed to sign instead. The retailers are a bit suspicious of you but the suspicion relates to your inability to do the PIN number. Suspicions are reduced where an explanation can be seen that the customer has a definite reason for not being able to do the number; people with a disability, foreign nationals, forgotten the number. In these cases proving you are the card holder by showing your passport can sort things out. The general idea is if you have just found a stranger's card on the ground and try to use it, the fact you cannot do the number highlights you enormously as potentially attempting a fraudulent transaction. When however if you show them your passport with a good likeness photo and the names agree with the credit card...

 

 

Regards John

Edited September 6, 2015 by john watson

[coo359a2]

Chase will issue a pin for your card if you need it. I had to get that a couple of years ago when we cruised out of Denmark. It didn't turn my credit card into a debit card, it just provided what was required by the country.

 

Have called Chase twice in last 2 days and both representatives told me that all Chase had was the "Pin and Signature" capability. The only pin number was used for cash advances. Have always used the "old type" CC when travelling out of country but will be using the new "chip" card on our upcoming cruises.

[coo359a2]

At leaast two chains here in Florida have changed to chip credit card readers (Publix Supermarkets and Walmarts). You can also swipe the old way if your card has not been upgraded.

 

It was also nice that on a recent trip out of state where we forgot to notify the credit card company of our plans that when we used the chip card reader, our rather large purchase was verified by needing to enter the PIN. It saved the transaction from being denied .

 

Here in middle Alabama, our stores have received the new card readers but Walmart is the only store using the "Chip" slot at the bottom of the card reader and a pin number is not required. We swipe the magnetic strip at all the other stores.

[RDC1]

They are not "chip and pin" for the most part, but are "chip and sign".

 

If some Australian vendors are only accepting "chip and pin", the "chip and sign" will not work. This can also be a problem in Europe.

 

The only problem I have run into in Australia and Europe has been with unmanned kiosks.

 

As a side note about vendors that will not accept chip and sign. According to Visa their merchant contract (including in Europe and Australia) requires that merchants accept chip and sign. Visa was very interested in any merchants that does not accept chip and sign, since they are in violation of their contract. This only applies to manned locations, not kiosks.

[caribill]

The only problem I have run into in Australia and Europe has been with unmanned kiosks.

 

As a side note about vendors that will not accept chip and sign. According to Visa their merchant contract (including in Europe and Australia) requires that merchants accept chip and sign. Visa was very interested in any merchants that does not accept chip and sign, since they are in violation of their contract. This only applies to manned locations, not kiosks.

 

They may require it, but if the vendor you are dealing with (and in some countries usually someone who does not speak English well) says "no PIN, no sale" there is not much you can do at the time.

[Christine Frances]

They are not "chip and pin" for the most part, but are "chip and sign".

 

If some Australian vendors are only accepting "chip and pin", the "chip and sign" will not work. This can also be a problem in Europe.

 

So the way the "chip & sign" works in the US is that you put your chipped card end first into the chip reader then something spits out that you sign? Or do you just have a card with a chip that you swipe as usual and the clerk gives you something to sign?

 

If you are swiping a chip card, that negates the excellent security features of the chip and the machine is just reading the info on the strip and not the chip.

 

In Canada, our readers have a swipe feature on the side for cards that aren't pinned.

[RDC1]

So the way the "chip & sign" works in the US is that you put your chipped card end first into the chip reader then something spits out that you sign? Or do you just have a card with a chip that you swipe as usual and the clerk gives you something to sign?

 

If you are swiping a chip card, that negates the excellent security features of the chip and the machine is just reading the info on the strip and not the chip.

 

In Canada, our readers have a swipe feature on the side for cards that aren't pinned.

 

The chip readers require you to insert the card and then once the transaction is complete prints out a slip to be signed. Had the same process in Switzerland, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands a couple of months ago.

 

Most US companies are issuing card that are both chip and sign, as well as swipe and sign, due to the process of merchants switching to new readers. Because the process of replacing the readers is ongoing most merchants are still swiping the cards in the US, only a couple are requiring insertion.

[Corfe Mixture]

Basically that is what is causing the change in the USA. Starting later this year merchants that do not use the chip technology will be responsible for any fraudulent charges. However, "chip and sign" is OK. That will not reduce fraud from stolen cards, but will reduce it from those who make up fake credit cards with real numbers.

 

Also, Internet credit card transactions make no use of the chip technology, so the chip technology will not reduce fraud from stolen credit card numbers on the Internet.

 

How does Europe deal with Internet credit card charges?

 

What you are referring to is what is known as a CNP (Card Not Present) transaction which includes both internet and telephone transactions and you are correct that chip and pin does not currently help in this respect, which is why, whilst credit card fraud dramatically reduced to the point where over 50%of credit card is related to CNP transactions.

 

To answer your specific question, they do try to limit CNP crime in a number of ways.

First we have to enter the three digit security code printed on the back of the card (four digit on the front for Amex).

Second, if the goods are not being to delivered to the registered address of the cardholder, there are additional 'lifestyle' computer checks, which may involve you receiving a telephone call to validate the transaction.

Alternatively, you may be transferred to an 'https' pop-up from your bank which requires you to go through a pre-agreed security procedure.

 

We do have chip and pin security for our on line banking transactions which involve putting the card into a hand held calculator like device and entering a pin number to get a one time validation code.

 

For on line payments from our bank accounts, the procedure is more complex in that after entering the pin number, we get an on screen reference number from the bank which we must then also punch into the machine, followed by the value of the transaction. These three entries then compute an eight digit code which we must then enter in order for the transfer to proceed.

 

Whether or not there is any intention to extend this system to include authorising CNP credit card transactions is not something I am aware of, but I guess that depends on how much of a problem CNP fraud becomes.

 

The bottom line is that fraud on bank accounts, as opposed to credit card accounts, is almost all the result of sophisticated telephone fraud where people are conned into disclosing their pin numbers and then handing over their cards to a 'courier from the bank'.

 

After moving to chip and pin, we did have a problem with applique ATM card readers being mounted on genuine ATM, to collect card data, along with small cameras, to record the key entries of the pin number, but this has been largely eliminated by changing the design of the ATM such that the card reader is now on a flexible mounting behind the front screen and pokes through a slot in the front panel and wobbles slightly, making it much more difficult to fit an applique unit over the card reader and very obvious if one is fitted.

[Christine Frances]

The chip readers require you to insert the card and then once the transaction is complete prints out a slip to be signed. Had the same process in Switzerland, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands a couple of months ago.

 

Most US companies are issuing card that are both chip and sign, as well as swipe and sign, due to the process of merchants switching to new readers. Because the process of replacing the readers is ongoing most merchants are still swiping the cards in the US, only a couple are requiring insertion.

 

Thank you:) I wonder if ours in Canada will do that as well if you have a chip card but no pin:confused:

[coo359a2]

The chip readers require you to insert the card and then once the transaction is complete prints out a slip to be signed. Had the same process in Switzerland, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands a couple of months ago.

 

Most US companies are issuing card that are both chip and sign, as well as swipe and sign, due to the process of merchants switching to new readers. Because the process of replacing the readers is ongoing most merchants are still swiping the cards in the US, only a couple are requiring insertion.

 

So far only our local Walmart has their chip reader operational - the other stores have the new readers but are set up for a swiping. Don't know off hand what Walmart's dollar limit has to be to require a signature with the chip card or the non chip card. Most of our Walmart purchases have not required a signature when using any card and our local Publix also doesn't require a signature if groceries are under a certain dollar limit.

 

I do wish that our restaurants used the hand held card readers as I sure hate when they take your card to the back. When we were in South Africa, we were told many times not to let our credit card out of our sight. All card transactions were to be done at your table.

[Kartgv]

At leaast two chains here in Florida have changed to chip credit card readers (Publix Supermarkets and Walmarts). You can also swipe the old way if your card has not been upgraded.

 

It was also nice that on a recent trip out of state where we forgot to notify the credit card company of our plans that when we used the chip card reader, our rather large purchase was verified by needing to enter the PIN. It saved the transaction from being denied .

 

But where did you find out your PIN? As most others note, the new cards do not have PINs, only the chip.

[coo359a2]

But where did you find out your PIN? As most others note, the new cards do not have PINs, only the chip.

 

Would like to know too. Both Chase and Capital One told me their pins were only for cash advances when I called to inquire about a pin for my chip card.

[caribill]

Most US companies are issuing card that are both chip and sign, as well as swipe and sign, due to the process of merchants switching to new readers. Because the process of replacing the readers is ongoing most merchants are still swiping the cards in the US, only a couple are requiring insertion.

 

Not quite. Almost all the newly issued chip cards in the USA are only Chip and Sign for credit transactrions.

 

Only one chip card that I have received says it can be used for Chip and Pin overseas in vendor machines (gas pumps, train tickets, etc.), but only after first using it at a real merchant overseas.

[remydiva]

But where did you find out your PIN? As most others note, the new cards do not have PINs, only the chip.

 

Here in Canada where as others have noted we have had chip and PIN credit cards since 2010( and now tap and go), the default PIN for my credit card was the same PIN as for my debit card (from the same bank).

 

I had been out of the country when the PIN system started so the first time I used my credit card I was stumped and the store clerk said it was probably my debit PIN,....it was.

 

When I got home and checked my mail sure enough the info pack from the bank said that and instructions for what I was to do if I wanted to change the credit card PIN to something different from my debit card PIN.

 

Europe has had the mobile card readers in restaurants since my visit in 2004. The US needs to do some serious catching up and finally it would seem they are. In the meantime, when we winter in the US, my hubby follows the server to the machine and then gives them his credit card.

[GUT2407]

You probably should also know that some places in Aus charge an additional fee on Credit Cards.

 

Mu local service station (gas station) charges 1.5% vor Visa and about 3% for AMEX.

[RDC1]

Not quite. Almost all the newly issued chip cards in the USA are only Chip and Sign for credit transactrions.

 

Only one chip card that I have received says it can be used for Chip and Pin overseas in vendor machines (gas pumps, train tickets, etc.), but only after first using it at a real merchant overseas.

 

Not sure if you read exactly what I wrote since you indicated not quite in response to my message. I said that most cards currently issued in the US are chip and sign, and swipe and sign. Did not mention the chip and pin function.

 

Even though they have the chips, they still work for swipe and sign because most merchants are not using the chip machines yet.

 

After October 2015 most merchants in the US will probably switch to using the chip functions because after that point they have liability for any face to face transactions using swipe and sign.

Edited September 7, 2015 by RDC1

[RDC1]

Here is a list of cards that you can get in the US that are reported to be chip and pin.

 

Chip cards with PIN and no foreign transaction fees

 

Most of these cards default to using a signature first, but will fall back to a PIN in places where a signature is not possible.

 

First Tech Federal Credit Union Choice Rewards World MasterCard

 

PIN priority with no annual fee and no foreign transaction fees. Join the Financial Fitness Association – $8 – to be eligible for the credit union.

 

State Department Federal Credit Union EMV Visa Platinum

No annual fee. Join the American Consumer Council – free – to be eligible for the credit union.

 

Andrews Federal Credit Union Platinum Rewards Visa

No annual fee. Join American Consumer Council – free - to be eligible for the credit union.

 

PenFed Platinum Rewards, Promise, & Gold Visa

No annual fee. Donate $15 to Voices for America’s Troops – to be eligible for the credit union.

 

Barclaycard Arrival World MasterCard

 

No annual fee.

 

Barclaycard Arrival Plus World Elite MasterCard

$89 annual fee, waived the first year.

 

 

Hawaiian Airlines World Elite MasterCard

$89 annual fee.

 

Wells Fargo Propel World American Express Card

$175 annual fee, waived the first year.

 

UN Federal Credit Union Elite

$50 annual fee. PIN priority – will always default to a PIN transaction when available for maximum security. Join the UNA-USA for $25 to be eligible for the credit union.

[Paulchili]

I am in Australia right now. An American DOESN'T have to have a PIN and chip card. We have been here almost a month, no problem with our chip only card. An Australian can only get a PIN and chip card, you can use a standard US credit card just fine.

 

This is discussed regularly on the Australia boards.

 

Same question is commonly asked about Europe, the answer is the same.

 

Ditto for Europe.

Exception - unattended ticket machines.

No worrries, mate :D