Oasis Lawyer

[birdlord]

Well actually- from Royal Caribbean:

 

In January 2006, we introduced a comprehensive SafeServe training program for all of our shipboard bartenders and servers. The program, which was developed by the Educational Foundation of the National Restaurant Association, teaches our staff how to serve alcohol responsibly. Our bartenders and servers are required to participate in this training and successfully pass a test.

 

As part of this program, our bartenders and servers are trained to recognize over consumption, and once recognized, to deny additional alcoholic beverages, serve additional water or non-alcoholic drinks, and/or provide food. And while the bartenders and servers on our ships work for tips, just like those in shoreside bars and restaurants, we have strict policies designed to prevent over serving. It is unacceptable and forbidden for any crew member to knowingly serve any intoxicated guest. If we become aware of any employee violating our policies, we take disciplinary action.

 

Exactly. Because one doesn't have to just be driving a car to be dangerous to others when over-intoxicated. There are countless things that can happen (fights, rape, etc) that might happen as a result of over consumption.

[Fury1995]

That was what I thought , and while trivial to the case, you can't fall into a lifeboat. It sounds like something made up after the fact based on a perception of what lifeboats look like to someone who hasn't cruised recently (JMO)

 

I agree with this..

 

There is more to the story. Physically falling over the railing from a standing position on that balcony is nearly impossible.

 

There was another interesting tidbit. One passenger stated he saw the aftermath and there was a presence of blood visible on the lifeboat. In the video, when the ships lights are more evident.. there is something that appears to be a blood smear (to me) on the lifeboat bracket to the left of him.

 

If this is true, he may have been injured from the impact and added to the struggle of holding on. Or, added to the difficulty of the crew member trying to hold onto him.

[tetleytea]

I have not sailed RCCI in quite awhile now, and previously I was following this story very little. However, after reading the stories on the mainstream media, I was left thinking we are dealing with out-and-out murder by RCCI on the high seas, followed by a corporate coverup. And then I came to these forums and got a very different impression. Now it looks more like security's understandable handling of a violent, drunk passenger playing the gay card to get a little more sympathy.

 

I tend to believe the forums over the mainstream media. But wanted to share the effect the media had from my outside-looking-in vantage point.

[BillOh]

Okay..

 

So to take this back on topic. The Lawyer..

 

The Attorney said in a statement that both men had cell phone video of their own. He also said the phones were taken by staff and not returned to Mr. Elbaz (or Albaz.. has anyone figured out the correct spelling yet?) and that he was retrieving them directly from the authorities (BSO?).

 

Keeping an open mind...

 

I wonder if the alleged additional cell phone videos could provide details supporting both the claims of Mr. Elbaz and Royal Caribbean?

 

I have read your first two posts, and agree you are keeping an open mind. I did mention in one of my early posts (hopefully you will think I am keeping an open mind too) that I wondered if anyone else, like you, can relate to harrasment from a crew member.

 

You were however the first person to say phones were taken by the staff. That is a key point I will be watching for more info on. There is no way on earth, short of overwhelming physical force I would give up my phone, or in my case, camera to a crew member in that circumstance. (But perhaps a person could be intimidated into doing so) This is a key point though. I've never seen Royal do this in case of fires, or other ship emergencies.

[Fury1995]

I have read your first two posts, and agree you are keeping an open mind. I did mention in one of my early posts (hopefully you will think I am keeping an open mind too) that I wondered if anyone else, like you, can relate to harrasment from a crew member.

 

You were however the first person to say phones were taken by the staff. That is a key point I will be watching for more info on. There is no way on earth, short of overwhelming physical force I would give up my phone, or in my case, camera to a crew member in that circumstance. (But perhaps a person could be intimidated into doing so) This is a key point though. I've never seen Royal do this in case of fires, or other ship emergencies.

 

This morning the attorney made this statement:

 

"I'm hoping that sheds further light on what actually occurred in that stateroom," Winkleman said. "After Bernardo had fallen into the water, they basically tackled (Bernardo's husband) Eric and ripped his phone from him, basically stealing his phone."

 

Winkleman said the victim and his husband were both recording video on their cell phones prior to the incident, and it may be key to showing what lead up to the fall.

 

He added that the Broward Sheriff's Office later returned the couple's phones when the ship arrived at Port Everglades on Saturday. The Broward Sheriff's Office is investigating the situation, and has so far not issued any blame.

[lv2bcruzin]

I have not sailed RCCI in quite awhile now, and previously I was following this story very little. However, after reading the stories on the mainstream media, I was left thinking we are dealing with out-and-out murder by RCCI on the high seas, followed by a corporate coverup. And then I came to these forums and got a very different impression. Now it looks more like security's understandable handling of a violent, drunk passenger playing the gay card to get a little more sympathy.

 

I tend to believe the forums over the mainstream media. But wanted to share the effect the media had from my outside-looking-in vantage point.

Seriously? The media has been reporting pretty much all of the same information we already knew. Now, they can spin of it of course, but it only takes a little common sense to figure out that there is not enough information out there to make a reasonable judgement. Media and attorney spins are expected at this point and none of us should think we have the answers, even though we may have a gut feeling. But, I'm still stuck on you seen media reports and thought you had all the info. :rolleyes:

[cruisinfanatic]

I don't think anyone should make accusations of suicide or otherwise until all the facts are known the video clearly shows he was not with his wife as previously stated he was with his husband and it was his husband that was yelling it was not the person overboard so please refrain from making any quick judgments against the person or Royal because we don't know all the facts we know what the video is a small clip horrific accident or possibly more but we don't know here's a clip I retrieved from YouTube with the audio captioned and you can understand a little more detail

but please be cautioned it is graphic.

I could be way wrong, hearing isn't what it used to be. Man is screaming at about 50 seconds into the clip. Captioning says "Don't let him go" I could swear I heard "don't let him jump"

[bouhunter]

While I doubt a crew member would intentionally insult a passenger, between language differences and alcohol consumption, it is possible that a perceived slight occurred. What one person intends as a friendly greeting or even a gentle ribbing, could be perceived by someone else with a different reference point and state of mind as an insult. Who knows.

 

Sure. Who wouldn't climb out on a lifeboat after a "perceived slight" or "gentle ribbing", that makes perfect sense.......... This thread has gotten ridiculous.

Edited November 9, 2015 by bouhunter

[tetleytea]

Seriously? The media has been reporting pretty much all of the same information we already knew. Now, they can spin of it of course, but it only takes a little common sense to figure out that there is not enough information out there to make a reasonable judgement. Media and attorney spins are expected at this point and none of us should think we have the answers, even though we may have a gut feeling. But, I'm still stuck on you seen media reports and thought you had all the info. :rolleyes:

 

I just said I logged onto CruiseCritic to double-check what the MSM advertised, so clearly you are wrong on that front.

[Tura Lura]

Sure. Who wouldn't climb out on a lifeboat after a "perceived slight" or "gentle ribbing", that makes perfect sense.......... This thread has gotten ridiculous.

 

the question was would a crewmember ever insult a guest, not would a guest kill himself based on those insults.

 

But again, what the crewmember thinks is gentle ribbing, to the ears of another person, esp, if drunk or mentally unstable, could escalate or be interpreted as gay slurs /insults.

[A&L_Ont]

This morning the attorney made this statement:

 

"I'm hoping that sheds further light on what actually occurred in that stateroom," Winkleman said. "After Bernardo had fallen into the water, they basically tackled (Bernardo's husband) Eric and ripped his phone from him, basically stealing his phone."

 

Winkleman said the victim and his husband were both recording video on their cell phones prior to the incident, and it may be key to showing what lead up to the fall.

 

He added that the Broward Sheriff's Office later returned the couple's phones when the ship arrived at Port Everglades on Saturday. The Broward Sheriff's Office is investigating the situation, and has so far not issued any blame.

 

If there was video on these phones (which hopefully is the true) I hope it is still on the phone. After watching CSI, for better or worse, I would like to hope that if the phone was cleared that there is still evidence buried in the phone.

 

I pose out loud if the couple had been harassed why would they not go to GS and the hotel director? If examples posted on this thread about complaining about poor service in the dining room were accurate I could only imagine the response to verbal/sexual harassment by crew.

[CaptainUnlucky]

I've been on many cruises mostly with balconies. I've even made comments standing on a balcony talking about how others had jumped and how difficult it would be to do so. Unless you are actually picked up and thrown over or climb up to jump it is literally impossible to fall. The rails are just too high. Perhaps the guilt of the husband having to explain to his loved ones family what happened was too much for him so he had to make up some other story. Either way he knows in his heart what happened and if he did make up a story he will have to live with that and the fact that his loved one is no longer with him.

[Tura Lura]

I pose out loud if the couple had been harassed why would they not go to GS and the hotel director? If examples posted on this thread about complaining about poor service in the dining room were accurate I could only imagine the response to verbal/sexual harassment by crew.

 

probably because if it did happen, it happened in the moment and responded to in that same moment, by someone not thinking clearly or with a level head.

 

To someone else's question about crewmembers and how they speak to customers, I've heard crewmembers say things that were questionable. Not enough to make me go report them but enough to make me uncomfortable and kind of smile/nod and walk away. So i can imagine that someone very sensitive or drunk or unstable, reacting in a more confrontational manner.

[molly361]

If anyone's starting a pool on when this thread will be closed put me down for 10am.

 

Pay up- It's still open:)

[A&L_Ont]

Pay up- It's still open:)

 

Me too.:)

[A&L_Ont]

probably because if it did happen, it happened in the moment and responded to in that same moment, by someone not thinking clearly or with a level head.

 

Hopefully these phones were owned by people who used their locking codes.

[BillOh]

Sure. Who wouldn't climb out on a lifeboat after a "perceived slight" or "gentle ribbing", that makes perfect sense.......... This thread has gotten ridiculous.

 

I couldn't disagree more, its been extremely civil and informative. But I'm looking at the thread on a whole, and not critiquing any individual comment.

[s0ccermom]

I could be way wrong, hearing isn't what it used to be. Man is screaming at about 50 seconds into the clip. Captioning says "Don't let him go" I could swear I heard "don't let him jump"

 

I heard it the same way you did. To me it sounds like "don't let him jump"

[Fantasymil]

What I'm about to say may be inappropriate but I have to. On this thread we have people jumping to conclusions as to what happened to this man, and yes everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but everyone that has ever been on a cruise knows you see people drinking excessively, inappropriate behavior, and on more than one occasion, many I add, I've seen security dealing with these individuals. What I see on here though is just plain disregard for human life! Yes a tragedy happen a person lost their life, regardless of what happened or how the situation played out. Don't judge this person, we don't know the facts, we know what's in the media and on social media 2 of the most unreliable sources out there. Regardless of what happened let the investigation play out before placing blame, just because you've never experienced or saw this type of treatment doesn't mean it can't happen. Things happen in life that we never thought people could or would do. So let's not defend or blame anyone lets just pray for those left behind. That they will receive peace and answers I guess what I'm saying is we all know all of the things mentioned in previous post does happen. People are on vacation, enjoying themselves and some more common than not drinking to excess, but this is the atmosphere of a cruise. Just please don't judge this person, after all in the end he lost his life!

[Krazykitty323]

I don't think anyone should make accusations of suicide or otherwise until all the facts are known the video clearly shows he was not with his wife as previously stated he was with his husband and it was his husband that was yelling it was not the person overboard so please refrain from making any quick judgments against the person or Royal because we don't know all the facts we know what the video is a small clip horrific accident or possibly more but we don't know here's a clip I retrieved from YouTube with the audio captioned and you can understand a little more detail

but please be cautioned it is graphic.

 

That explains a lot more then the other video, it definitely sounds like the crew had something to do with it

[Palmetto Pilot]

The Sun Sentinel had an article quoting the ambulance chaser.

 

Pretty cut and dry situation here -- married couple gets drunk, extremely emotional, destroys cruise ship property, security gets called, drunk flings himself off balcony.

 

Ambulance chaser sees dollar signs.

 

get this man a beer.

[Krazykitty323]

That explains a lot more then the other video, it definitely sounds like the crew had something to do with it

I definitely think the crew was there and trying to resolve a domestic issue but I don't believe that actually, physically did anything. I think he got up on the balcony edge threatening to jump but probably never really intended too. When someone isis intoxicated they do some stupid stuff.

[YubaSutter]

Hopefully these phones were owned by people who used their locking codes.

 

Locking codes work for the common population. A knowledgeable person can extract all of the info on a phone very easily.

[Sunkissed Mommy]

Here is a photo of a Deck 7 balcony on the Allure (identical to Oasis). That's my husband and he is 5'7". The white bar is the top of the balcony.

 

 

Sorry. Someone doesn't just fall out and on to a lifeboat. They jump or they are pushed. I think alcohol plus rage (over some real or perceived incident) made him threaten to jump. Perhaps from that point he fell or actually jumped thinking he could land on a lifeboat.

Edited November 9, 2015 by Sunkissed Mommy

[Krazykitty323]

Here is a photo of a Deck 7 balcony on the Allure (identical to Oasis). That's my husband and he is 5'7". The white bar is the top of the balcony.

 

 

Sorry. Someone doesn't just fall out and on to a lifeboat. They jump or they are pushed. I think alcohol plus rage (over some real or perceived incident) made him threaten to jump. Perhaps from that point he fell or actually jumped thinking he could land on a lifeboat.

 

 

I agree.. He had to have climbed up on the balcony and then fell or actually jumpedjumped. I can't see a crew member actually picking him up and throwing him over the railing, that's just ridiculous