Oasis Lawyer

[yogimax]

Exactly. If Ryano is worried about "costs being spread around," better to settle. It'll cost far less for both parties than cost after multiple rounds of discovery, dispositive motions, expert witness fees, deposition fees, court fees, costs, and the uncertainty of what happens when you get a case with a potentially sympathetic plaintiff in front of a jury.

 

 

 

In theory you are correct. It probably would be cheaper. However, I sit on the board of a major timeshare and our insurance/risk management specialist constantly pleads for the company to fight these kinds of lawsuits. In the end, they drive up premiums which are ultimately passed on to consumers.

Edited November 9, 2015 by yogimax

[2wheelin]

Security would have been derelict in their duties to not have confiscated the cell phones. They are evidence, which apparently the sheriff's office found useful. The survivor husband was still able to contact a lawyer ASAP.

[perditax]

If whoever is filing it does not drop this frivolous lawsuit, I would love to see every other passenger on the ship initiate a class action suit against him for his role in causing them distress on their vacation.

 

 

Because two frivolous lawsuits equal justice?

 

Anyway.

 

I wonder about the mental health of the jumper, but I always wonder that in these cases. I wonder how many of them were already thinking about suicide in some way, and something about being in the middle of the ocean seems like the right time.

 

But I also wonder about the fact that for some people, travel can be enormously stressful. Close quarters, lots of elements out of your control, physical exertion, high expectations not met, etc. I suspect most of us have been in some kind of travel-related spat with a loved one, maybe over something stupid like where to eat dinner or what ride to go on next. If you combine that with someone who was possibly already unstable, and mix with alcohol ... Tragedy.

 

(I'm just musing, I always ponder this stuff when there is a jumper, especially part of a couple.)

[LisaAtlCruiser]

Thanks for all the additional information. I watched the video yet again and he definitely says "don't let him jump". I am also glad that RCCL DID take the phones for further evidence that this guy jumped intentionally.

 

Look - I get it that it is extremely difficult to accept the suicide of someone you love. Especially if you were just in a fight with them! My brother-in-law committed suicide - so trust me - I get it. But that does not mean anyone else is the cause of the man's death. People were trying to save him and those people are now emotionally scared. But the husband is saying it is there fault and that is just wrong. I understand denial, anger etc and frankly the lawyer is the real problem here. But given the emotional state of the husband - this lawyer is going to get in his head and he may live the rest of his life denying what really happened. I just hope this all ends soon as this man needs to get on with grieving his loss and not projecting into other people blame.

[AZCactusCruiser]

The unnecessary loss of human life is heartbreaking regardless of the situation or circumstances.

 

However, I can't help but picture in my mind's eye a certain political figure reading this thread, shrugging her shoulders, and asking "what difference does it make now?"

[Retired LEO]

I think it would pretty easy to show this guy was drunk. Check his sea pass card. If he was on the package each drink is going to be there and if he was buying each drink there's a record there too.

 

Not necessarily. When the bartenders get to know you, know what your drinking, and know you have an alcohol package they often just give you the drink without even taking your card.

[A&L_Ont]

I wonder about the mental health of the jumper, but I always wonder that in these cases. I wonder how many of them were already thinking about suicide in some way, and something about being in the middle of the ocean seems like the right time.

 

But I also wonder about the fact that for some people, travel can be enormously stressful. Close quarters, lots of elements out of your control, physical exertion, high expectations not met, etc. I suspect most of us have been in some kind of travel-related spat with a loved one, maybe over something stupid like where to eat dinner or what ride to go on next. If you combine that with someone who was possibly already unstable, and mix with alcohol ... Tragedy.

 

(I'm just musing, I always ponder this stuff when there is a jumper, especially part of a couple.)

 

I will also muse a bit as well.

 

Not every couple makes to their first wedding anniversary and maybe they were having marital problems. I would like to think that their verbal and noisy fight was a first. However to disrupt cabins on each side of them and more cabins that were not just their direct neighbour's, this was obviously a big one. Yes, every couple has its problems at times but this wasn't just a heated discussion. A cabin with broken furniture, lamp etc and at the end a spouse who ended up hanging from a lfe boat doesn't sound like wedded bliss to me.

 

If I knew a couple that had a fight like that, minus the jumping overboard, I would seriously be asking them "do you really belong together". We don't know how happy this couple was but from the little we do know about them it leaves a lot to wonder about.

 

Like I said at the beginning I am just musing.

[jakenashleysmom]

http://www.sheriff.org/posts/post.cfm?id=454E871B-CC74-F6D9-576C-CB36E4A788C3 official sheriffs report.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

Edited November 10, 2015 by jakenashleysmom

[LisaAtlCruiser]

More information is on cbsmaimi.com - looks like the husband is back tracking a bit now (see below). First he says he fell off - now he is saying what caused him to go over is because he was so upset.

 

According to the article there is a video where you can hear the man saying he is going to jump - and it also shows him running toward the balcony with his husband running after him and security after the husband. At the end of the article it says it is up to the family if they want to release the video from the phone. My guess is they won't ever release it.

 

MIAMI (CBSMiami) – A man who fell to his death while on board a Royal Caribbean cruise intentionally jumped off a balcony, according to the Broward Sheriff’s Office.

 

Meantime, his husband Eric Elbaz says that is not the case and spoke for the first time on Monday evening. He said the victim was upset about taunts that were made about him being gay from the ship staff and that’s what caused him to go over the balcony.

 

“The incidents that led up to his state of mind to what happened in that room, caused that,” said Elbaz. “I tried to calm things down. The video will show all of this and that’s what I meant. You guys have blood on your hands. The cruise line has blood on their hands.”

[DandDM]

Based on everything Ive read so far, this attorney is clearly a dirtbag and so are others that take cases like this. They are right there along with Jim Walker in my book. To know that a "compromise" will likely be reached where Royal will pay out because of someones stupidity disgusts me and if you dont believe we will all feel this in some way, you are fooling yourself.

 

I agree with Ryano here. In my job I have to deal with this sort of thing occasionally (fortunately, not life and death) and have had to accept some settlement deals that make me sick. Earlier this year we were threatened with a suit by in which we not only had a signed a contract specifically waiving liability, but also the alleged damages were caused by a third party. I was advised to settle based on the anticipated costs to defend, plus the potential reputation damage, even though this guy didn't have a chance in court. I'm sure the other side ran the numbers and came to the same conclusion. I think it is called an "extortion suit".

 

But for the for the record, I will say that I am a fan of attorney's in general. While this guy may be a dirtbag, there are also some very good ones out there.

[thwatcher100]

While its terrible that this man is now dead especially for his husband/family, on the face of it, it looks like a domestic that went too far. Very intense people just cannot leave a fight and have to keep pushing for a reaction, threatening to kill themselves is always high on the list.This man may have even thought he would be rescued, we will never know.

 

That many innocent cruise passengers and crew have now become embroiled in the incident is also a shame, not what anybody would have wanted on their vacation/at work.

[Big_G]

http://www.sheriff.org/posts/post.cfm?id=454E871B-CC74-F6D9-576C-CB36E4A788C3 official sheriffs report.

Sent from my KFTHWI using Forums mobile app

 

You beat me to it. :D Anyway, it's nice to read something without worrying about added media spin. Thanks for posting it.

[Bigtex1622]

Good analysis and insightful; as to whether the victim was inebriated, wouldn't RCI at least have the SeaPass records and know what was charged, how often, etc.?

 

There was a case here in town. A woman who was very drunk ( breathalyzer test showed that ).

Hit a car and killed a woman and her kids. The husband tried to sue the driver, but she did not have insurance.

So he went after the bar that served the drinks.

The bar video showed she bought two drinks that night, but her friends bought her a lot more.

So to say that RCL or anyone knows how many drinks a person had, must have been watching that one person all night.

 

 

.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Bigtex1622

[cruisingram1]

I wonder if it's possible that Bernardo, who I am sure had looked over the balcony many times during his five previous days on the ship, thought he could actually jump onto the top of the lifeboat and thus "make his point" yet survive and end up on deck 6. But he misjudged his aim and landed on the divot instead. I am sure people who are inebriated have done lots of things that have not turned out as planned. This, of course, being the ultimate misjudgment.

[jonz316]

Where I would place more blame on the passengers is if they inappropriately wielded their "protected" status as a gay couple. There was loss of life, confiscating of cell phones which is UNACCEPTABLE, drinking, and a domestic disturbance. Gay marriage has nothing to do with it. If the guy was black, then the attorney would be saying, "oh, the crew members were making racial remarks, spurring him on to commit suicide.". Then you go to the media, where the public becomes more sympathetic because the " victim" is a member of some discriminated group, and threaten the line with economic impact. Now that would anger me.

 

What does wielding your "protected" status mean as a gay couple mean?

[jonz316]

http://www.bernardoteixeira.com/

 

Seems like a well put together person. This story does not add up.

 

The ship's captain should have cut the engine with this issue going on.

Edited November 10, 2015 by jonz316

[LisaAtlCruiser]

http://www.bernardoteixeira.com/

 

Seems like a well put together person. This story does not add up.

 

The ship's captain should have cut the engine with this issue going on.

 

Do you think well put together people don't commit suicide? Sure they do. Especially after drinking and not thinking clearly.

 

What do you think cutting the engines would have accomplished?

[garnetpalmetto]

http://www.bernardoteixeira.com/

 

Seems like a well put together person. This story does not add up.

 

The ship's captain should have cut the engine with this issue going on.

 

And as has been repeatedly pointed out, a ship the size of an aircraft carrier doesn't exactly stop on a dime.

[Cabansail]

http://www.bernardoteixeira.com/

 

Seems like a well put together person. This story does not add up.

 

 

How can you tell that from a webpage which is promoting himself? I doubt that he would put up things which would be seen as negative on his own page. People do strange things when they are emotional and have had too much to drink.

 

The ship's captain should have cut the engine with this issue going on.

 

:confused::confused::confused:

[jonz316]

Do you think well put together people don't commit suicide? Sure they do. Especially after drinking and not thinking clearly.

 

What do you think cutting the engines would have accomplished?

 

It would have demonstrated that the cruise line actually cared about the passenger that might fall from his precarious position.

[jonz316]

How can you tell that from a webpage which is promoting himself? I doubt that he would put up things which would be seen as negative on his own page. People do strange things when they are emotional and have had too much to drink.

 

 

 

:confused::confused::confused:

 

Not from the web page, but from the works he has accomplished. I have been on 25 cruises. The security staff has never impressed me, and I have actually witnessed them stealing property that does not belong to this, which was reported to the purser's desk. After fighting the issue on behalf of the victim, the security office finally admitted he took the camera.

[markeb]

It would have demonstrated that the cruise line actually cared about the passenger that might fall from his precarious position.

 

Do you understand anything about navigation and propulsion at sea? Cutting the engines wouldn't help. You might, before the fall, enable the navigation system to hold position, but I'm not sure how effective that would be in open water.

 

Let's say they're doing 18 knots. In 5 minutes (fast reaction) the ship will have traveled about 1.5 nautical miles, around 1.6 or so miles. Cut the engines and you're now drifting with inertia and the effect of current, away from the man overboard. Isn't going to help. There are procedures for a man overboard, but losing the ability to control the vessel isn't one of them.

Edited November 10, 2015 by markeb

[ryano]

 

But for the for the record, I will say that I am a fan of attorney's in general. While this guy may be a dirtbag, there are also some very good ones out there.

 

Absolutely. In no way was I lumping ALL attorneys in with scumbags like Jim Walker and this guy

[LMaxwell]

It would have demonstrated that the cruise line actually cared about the passenger that might fall from his precarious position.

 

ships don't just come to a stop. They brought the ship speed down as quickly and safely as practical so they could launch the fast rescue boats.

 

Why are you under the false premise that these things were not done? :confused:

[ryano]

Do you understand anything about navigation and propulsion at sea?

 

Obviously not.