Celebrity wants new cruisers

[lahlah57]

What is the difference between O class and R class ships for X? I think that is the classes:confused:

Which ones are preferred and what do they offer. We have cruised severl luxury lines and they are great with . Itineraries will alwas be first and we loooove sea days. What else is there to do on those sea days. Never been on mega ships but now they are looking intriguing too.

 

It's M & S class on Celebrity. M is for Millennium and S is for Solstice.

 

You can look at the Celebrity website and learn all about the differences.

 

M is the older, smaller ships, but very nice design, actually one of my favorite size ships. They came out around 2000, hence the name

 

S is the newer ones, which came out from 2006 or so forward.

 

 

PS, O & R are Oceania class designations.

Thankyou so much for setting my info straight. Is there quite a bit more to do on say the millenium (itinerary) Alot of sea days which we like but still want some choices of things to do while on board. Usually luxury lines we have been on are really sedate which is okay but we want to try something different.

If we go the most economical suite we can with the "best" package it can be close to all inclusive. Has there been others here who have experienced what I speak of above?

[Host Jazzbeau]

Somebody said every business needs to be looking for new customers all the time. Yes, but Celebrity isn't looking for new customers -- that would be people in their 40s and 50s who are ready to move up to a more adult, classy ambience. Celebrity seems to be looking for different customers -- people in their 20s and 30s. The trick is getting both ambiences on the same ship -- and so far Celebrity hasn't figured that out.

[Host Jazzbeau]

Interesting comment about Viking...I usually read only good things about their river cruises...

 

Viking River Cruise passengers only have good things to say about their cruise -- when things go right. But there are many complaints about customer service both before the cruise and especially when things go wrong on a cruise.

 

We've been looking at Viking, & it seems that their Russian ships are paltry compared to their new longships that ply the European rivers. I'm finding out here on the river cruise board that the biggest problem with river cruising has been the water levels of the rivers, with many cruisers forced to be bused to different ships mid cruise, or partially subbing the cruise for bus trips. It has given us pause in deciding.

 

Viking's Russian ships are completely different from their other designs. So are everybody's, because you are not allowed to build or own your ships in Russia -- you must lease them from one company. The same situation applies to cruises on the Duoro in Portugal, although the ships there seem to be newer and the cruise lines have more control to tailor the ship to their standards.

 

As to low- (and high-) water issues, different rivers have more or fewer problems (Elbe is worst for low water; Danube is bad for both; Main, Rhine and the French rivers seem less problematic). Also different cruise lines have had more or fewer problems as conditions deteriorate. The Viking longships are the worst, because they have the deepest draft (bad in low water), the highest air clearance (bad in high water, getting under bridges), and their rapid expansion means their captains have less experience (to know where the river bottom is sand that can safely be dragged through, and where it is rock that will tear up the ship).

 

Come over to the River Cruising forum and you can learn lots more about all these issues!

[Gracie115]

Somebody said every business needs to be looking for new customers all the time. Yes, but Celebrity isn't looking for new customers -- that would be people in their 40s and 50s who are ready to move up to a more adult, classy ambience. Celebrity seems to be looking for different customers -- people in their 20s and 30s. The trick is getting both ambiences on the same ship -- and so far Celebrity hasn't figured that out.

 

possibly..their entertainment choices seem to support that theory....guess we just have to "wait and see" who, "wins the day" so to speak....

[hcat]

Maybe they'll get the customers they deserve!

Edited December 13, 2015 by hcat

[floridatravelersforlife]

It's all in the numbers. Elite and Elite plus average 200 per ship in my past experience. Times 9 ships (M plus S class) times 30 trips per ship (about 1.5 week voyage avg) results in roughly 54,000 Elites. If 10% of Elites(5400 pax) leave Celebrity all that needs to be done is offer more promotions. That's 5400 pax out of 1.3 million pax per year FOR THE FLEET. Granted all my numbers are rough, but the small group of Elites, point o that this is not about any Celebrity allegiance to its Elite. We are too small to be concerned about..

 

Very similar to the behavior of Disney Attractions.

 

Now if the economy turns or there is a security threat, all bets are off. New pax will vaporize.

 

I have already voted with my wallet and spent my vacation dollars elsewhere.

[richsea]

Viking River Cruise passengers only have good things to say about their cruise -- when things go right. But there are many complaints about customer service both before the cruise and especially when things go wrong on a cruise.

 

 

 

Viking's Russian ships are completely different from their other designs. So are everybody's, because you are not allowed to build or own your ships in Russia -- you must lease them from one company. The same situation applies to cruises on the Duoro in Portugal, although the ships there seem to be newer and the cruise lines have more control to tailor the ship to their standards.

 

As to low- (and high-) water issues, different rivers have more or fewer problems (Elbe is worst for low water; Danube is bad for both; Main, Rhine and the French rivers seem less problematic). Also different cruise lines have had more or fewer problems as conditions deteriorate. The Viking longships are the worst, because they have the deepest draft (bad in low water), the highest air clearance (bad in high water, getting under bridges), and their rapid expansion means their captains have less experience (to know where the river bottom is sand that can safely be dragged through, and where it is rock that will tear up the ship).

 

Come over to the River Cruising forum and you can learn lots more about all these issues!

 

Thanks, Jazzbeau. I have been browsing the river forum; very helpful. That's where I learned about the water level problems. I think we'll probably wait for now on the River cruises.

[shipshape sam]

Maybe they'll get the customers they deserve!

 

Maybe. :)

[baldercash]

Thanks, Jazzbeau. I have been browsing the river forum; very helpful. That's where I learned about the water level problems. I think we'll probably wait for now on the River cruises.

 

We did our 1st river cruise last year Basil to Amsterdam on Viking and it was fabulous and a real change from Ocean cruises. We traveled by train from Barcelona to Paris, spent 16 days there then trained to Zurich and about Switzerland. So about 25 days of land travel before the cruise.

We had thought the cruise pricey but after having spent so much time traveling Europe before boarding we immediately appreciated the cost of the cruise and considered it money well spent.

 

Give it a try.

[Gracie115]

We did our 1st river cruise last year Basil to Amsterdam on Viking and it was fabulous and a real change from Ocean cruises. We traveled by train from Barcelona to Paris, spent 16 days there then trained to Zurich and about Switzerland. So about 25 days of land travel before the cruise.

We had thought the cruise pricey but after having spent so much time traveling Europe before boarding we immediately appreciated the cost of the cruise and considered it money well spent.

 

Give it a try.

 

Yes, I'm sure our 1st river cruise will be in Europe somewhere. I realize it will be different than ocean cruising.....but that's perhaps one of the good things of X's new pricing strategies.... opening up new horizons of travel ideas for those of us that find the new prices too prohibitive to just jump on them and keep booking X......could always come back down the road if disappointed in other modes of travel.....

Edited December 14, 2015 by Gracie115

[ProfessorEFFE]

I am not trying to make any excuses for anyone but myself. Costs have been rising for food and falling for gasoline. Beef, Pork and other meats in general have risen a lot.

 

Corporations are supposed to make money for the stockholders. That's their job.

 

Celebrity seems to be in adaptation mode. Try to give people what they want. The old school (which I liked BTW) made it easy to have a wonderful meal and a show. No thinking ... Late seating 7pm show, early seating 8:30 show. Now we have anytime dining ... for me means more waiting. But there are more specialty restaurants ...

Considering that a flight in business class from Tampa to Barcelona costs as much as a 13 day Cruise in Aqua class, and that's at a hugely discounted price. How does the cruiseline make money on an AQ1 cabin for 13 days on 1650. So for $125 a day I have a room, with a balcony, and all those cool AQ perks which includes a specialty restaurant for 2 of the 3 meals. Sorry but going cross country on a motorcycle staying in 60 buck flea bag motels and eating in choke & pukes cost me at least 125/day on a scoot.

 

My point is the margins the cruise line is working with are slight. The BAD thing is that Celebrity does some dumb stuff to upset passengers. Like take a 25 cent bottle of water away from AQua class. You can give freebies out but it's bad for business if you take them away!

 

If you don't like what your vendor has done ... go to another vendor. I like Celebrity. I like the way I feel when I am on board, more so than the other 2 lines I have been on. If I find another vendor that I like better I will use them. All you can do is write and ask Celebrity why. You cannot change their minds unless you vote with your money and go somewhere else.

 

To the OP I wish you luck in your persuit. Thank you for starting this thread.

[ISABELLA]

Somebody said every business needs to be looking for new customers all the time. Yes, but Celebrity isn't looking for new customers -- that would be people in their 40s and 50s who are ready to move up to a more adult, classy ambience. Celebrity seems to be looking for different customers -- people in their 20s and 30s. The trick is getting both ambiences on the same ship -- and so far Celebrity hasn't figured that out.

 

X is too boring for most people in their 20s. And not a lot of 20 years old can take 2 weeks cruise and spent $6000 on it...

Most companies pay to keep loyal customers, X seems does opposite. Very sad, but time will tell if their strategy will pay off.

[Host Jazzbeau]

X is too boring for most people in their 20s. And not a lot of 20 years old can take 2 weeks cruise and spent $6000 on it...

Most companies pay to keep loyal customers, X seems does opposite. Very sad, but time will tell if their strategy will pay off.

 

Yes, and now it's too noisy for people in their 60s. So rather than attract both demographics they aren't attracting either one.

[Dave85]

Celebrity doesn't always make the best decisions. Case in point: they decide to try and appeal to a younger demographic, but they simultaneously remove the dance club from the plans for Celebrity Reflection. Result: loud DJ music (which I love) playing elsewhere in odd locations around the ship, (1) aggravating guests who doesn't want to hear it, and (2) tying up an additional venue that could be used to entertain other guests.

 

I hope that new conference room on the Reflection has been a real hit for them!

Edited December 14, 2015 by Dave85

[baldercash]

I am not trying to make any excuses for anyone but myself. Costs have been rising for food and falling for gasoline. Beef, Pork and other meats in general have risen a lot.

 

Corporations are supposed to make money for the stockholders. That's their job.

 

Celebrity seems to be in adaptation mode. Try to give people what they want. The old school (which I liked BTW) made it easy to have a wonderful meal and a show. No thinking ... Late seating 7pm show, early seating 8:30 show. Now we have anytime dining ... for me means more waiting. But there are more specialty restaurants ...

Considering that a flight in business class from Tampa to Barcelona costs as much as a 13 day Cruise in Aqua class, and that's at a hugely discounted price. How does the cruiseline make money on an AQ1 cabin for 13 days on 1650. So for $125 a day I have a room, with a balcony, and all those cool AQ perks which includes a specialty restaurant for 2 of the 3 meals. Sorry but going cross country on a motorcycle staying in 60 buck flea bag motels and eating in choke & pukes cost me at least 125/day on a scoot.

 

My point is the margins the cruise line is working with are slight. The BAD thing is that Celebrity does some dumb stuff to upset passengers. Like take a 25 cent bottle of water away from AQua class. You can give freebies out but it's bad for business if you take them away!

 

If you don't like what your vendor has done ... go to another vendor. I like Celebrity. I like the way I feel when I am on board, more so than the other 2 lines I have been on. If I find another vendor that I like better I will use them. All you can do is write and ask Celebrity why. You cannot change their minds unless you vote with your money and go somewhere else.

 

To the OP I wish you luck in your persuit. Thank you for starting this thread.

 

You are paying $250.00 a day for your travel as there are 2 of you plus $25.00 for tips and if you can get a flight from were ever and back for $500.00 pp you are now spending closer to $350.00 a day. Not even considering cost of the cab to the airport, port or parking fee's plus other costs. Then when you hit a port there is the cost of a tour or a museum entrance, hop on and off bus maybe a beer a glass of wine a sample of local fare?

 

For that type of money you can have a really good road holiday traveling the byways of America.

 

Last spring we spent 4 days pre cruise in Nola and then 4 days post cruise in Boston and we were not paying that a day and the Boston Jays game we attended was more interesting then any entertainment on Royal Caribbean let alone X.

 

Comparing a 1st class flight to cross the Atlantic to an X TA might be better to compare the price of a Crystal crossing?

We look at a standard airfare compared to a TA and we use TA's as a means to go to or from a destination. We don't want to fly to Florida get on a boat and spend 10 days of a 14 crossing as sea days and then fly back once we get to Europe.

We get off the boat and spend a few weeks or a month traveling before returning home.

 

But as you said to each their own, we have friends who cruise who don't even bother getting off at any port only to disembark!

 

We gladly spend our money on what we perceive as good value, and as people are stating they are starting to see less value in X cruises. For those who do they are looking to other venues to spend their money without being told to go elsewhere.

 

I and a bunch of buddies all retired now from Honda Canada make the pilgrimage every spring to Daytona for bike week and I spend each evening sleeping on the floor in the kitchen area because there are 6 guys spending 2 weeks in a time share studio apartment. Costs next to nothing but as they say in the ads, priceless!

Edited December 14, 2015 by baldercash

[Gracie115]

My point is the margins the cruise line is working with are slight. The BAD thing is that Celebrity does some dumb stuff to upset passengers. Like take a 25 cent bottle of water away from AQua class. You can give freebies out but it's bad for business if you take them away!

 

If you don't like what your vendor has done ... go to another vendor. I like Celebrity. I like the way I feel when I am on board, more so than the other 2 lines I have been on. If I find another vendor that I like better I will use them. All you can do is write and ask Celebrity why. You cannot change their minds unless you vote with your money and go somewhere else.

 

To the OP I wish you luck in your persuit. Thank you for starting this thread.

 

Thanks....just wanted a thread that wasn't just another "lets bash Celebrity" thread, wanted to hear what people think about the changes both monetarily, and in the product itself that Celebrity is presenting. I agree with many that state they are trying to change their clientele. I believe at least partly to eliminate some (not all) of the higher leveled persons in their Captain's Club.....they have only themselves to blame for making it so easy to get to Elite and now they have a monster on their hands with 1,000's of people who expect those free drinks each night, the free internet...etc etc and don't buy into a new marketing program that beefs up the stateroom price so that free drinks are included for everyone....makes the Elite status very diminished. So I believe they are happy to see some looking elsewhere...while X "cashes" in on the inexperienced new cruiser who know no better than to pay 2-3 times what the same cruise was worth a year ago.... AND, of course, they(X) have lots of time to lower those prices if their move doesn't work and the cabins don't sell at the higher prices. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. We also like the Celebrity product, so we will be monitoring prices but we won't stop travelling waiting for the cost to come down to a more reasonable range. If we can make something fit into our plans with X down the road so be it....but for now we will be on the sidelines watching with interest what the next year will bring for their fares!!:)

[parallax]

A problem that Celebrity and other cruise lines face is that some of the veteran cruisers do not generate sufficient revenues. They book a low priced cabin and then precede to spend a very limited number of dollars on a cruise.

 

When we were on our last cruise, we went to our first Elite cocktail reception. We were talking to one group in particular who mentioned that they only drank at the Elite receptions and were able to go on numerous cruises in a year because of their ability to limit cost on the ships. While I do not have an issue with these cruisers, the cruise line does have to generate higher revenues from other passengers to ensure they hit their targets.

[baldercash]

A problem that Celebrity and other cruise lines face is that some of the veteran cruisers do not generate sufficient revenues. They book a low priced cabin and then precede to spend a very limited number of dollars on a cruise.

 

Point taken but what people are also saying is they pay a premium for an Aqua class and X takes away the amenity of bottled water? This is a feature that was used to justify the higher price for the cabin and they no longer place fresh flowers in the cabins as well.

They are down grading the product while raising the price these items were built into the pricing structure of the cabin class.

 

We are Elite+ and when we did our Trans pacific cruise Hawaii to Sydney and then on to Singapore two years ago we were on Millie when they changed the criteria for the Loyalty program.

We spent a lot of time comparing various options and cruise lines before booking X but we determined it the best product for us but definitely not the cheapest.

The fact we were Elite and thought the preferred tendering would work in our favour as we had read of nightmare scenarios on various ports did weigh in our decision but we also booked an A1 on the 11th deck an aft cabin as that was our preferred location and with that came preferred tendering as well. FYI We had no issue with tendering at any port.

 

To your point we were surprised at the commotion raised by cruisers on board because their inside cabins were now being awarded points under the new system.

So yes a lot of thrifty cruisers out there and loyalty perks may be becoming redundant but how do they justify raising prices and downgrading the amenities at the same time?

So now if you book an Aqua class you pay the additional cost of a drink package added on top of the cabin class surcharge to get water that was included in the pricing to begin with?.

Edited December 14, 2015 by baldercash

[luv2cruisecats]

With the growing threat of terrorism looming large I predict that all European bookings will drop noticeably after the first of the year. This will trigger more bargains in Europe and Celebrity will have no choice but to capitulate on prices for at least some 2016 cruises. Since we travel strictly on mileage reward redemptions I only hope we can take advantage of some of these!

[ABoatNerd]

Excellent analysis on the CC boards these days.

 

My offering....

 

The Celebrity product offering used to be consistently delivered and clearly aimed at the "premium" traveller within the mass market. The base fare was known and a bit above the mass lines. This philosophy was behind the former campaign "Simply The Best".

 

So my household knew, in sailing since 1992 till recently, a number of things; food, service, cleanliness etc over the years were better than the mass market competition. Moving to the strictest non smoking policy was an example. On occasion we had the chance to cruise other lines with family and friends so in comparing, we remained core Celebrity patrons.

 

For example, not long ago Celebrity had staff deliver mid afternoon sorbet at the pool with the staff saying "thank you for choosing Celebrity".

 

Any company can change their philosophy and this is what is happening to Celebrity. It is normal to have a company evolve, it is necessary to survive.

 

Our thoughts on this once great cruise line which is now just a regular cruise line amongst the masses of cruise providers:

 

1) Celebrity's arrogance is such that they think we are stupid and will not notice the downgrades. I have fired former favorite restaurants for doing the same thing to my favorite entree

 

2) Celebrity is pushing fare increases because they believe the few people on CC represent the majority of their long time core customers and all will continue to book cruises - for example cause many CC folks say that I have X number of cruises booked - to those doing this, what exactly folks is the message to the Celebrity staff trolling this board?

 

3) Celebrity monitors the purchasing habits of the younger generation and they know that these young people have no issue with high debt - so they will purchase a cruise on any line with no worry about the future, nor cost to be frank - makes corporate sense to pursue this group and jettison the long term customers

 

4) Since most lines are reporting full ships, the "obedient consumer" is alive and well and that allows Celebrity and all cruise lines (like the current angst on NCL) to raise charges. People still post that the beverage packages are "free" - truly?

 

Rather like taking the consumer for granted cause the consumer is doing nothing to change this.

 

Until such time as consumers stop purchasing expect the continued downgrade of product at higher prices.

 

Our household has ended all cruising for the foreseeable future because all cruises lines are in the same mode as Celebrity.

 

If Celebrity stabilizes and can demonstrate where they "sit" in the cruise hierarchy, what is their product offering, at what price and that it is consistently delivered - then we will consider patronizing them in the future.

 

For those continuing to patronize Celebrity - hope that you enjoy the cruise and have a safe and wonderful experience.

 

ABoatNerd

[Gracie115]

Excellent analysis on the CC boards these days.

 

My offering....

 

The Celebrity product offering used to be consistently delivered and clearly aimed at the "premium" traveller within the mass market. The base fare was known and a bit above the mass lines. This philosophy was behind the former campaign "Simply The Best".

 

So my household knew, in sailing since 1992 till recently, a number of things; food, service, cleanliness etc over the years were better than the mass market competition. Moving to the strictest non smoking policy was an example. On occasion we had the chance to cruise other lines with family and friends so in comparing, we remained core Celebrity patrons.

 

For example, not long ago Celebrity had staff deliver mid afternoon sorbet at the pool with the staff saying "thank you for choosing Celebrity".

 

Any company can change their philosophy and this is what is happening to Celebrity. It is normal to have a company evolve, it is necessary to survive.

 

Our thoughts on this once great cruise line which is now just a regular cruise line amongst the masses of cruise providers:

 

1) Celebrity's arrogance is such that they think we are stupid and will not notice the downgrades. I have fired former favorite restaurants for doing the same thing to my favorite entree

 

2) Celebrity is pushing fare increases because they believe the few people on CC represent the majority of their long time core customers and all will continue to book cruises - for example cause many CC folks say that I have X number of cruises booked - to those doing this, what exactly folks is the message to the Celebrity staff trolling this board?

 

3) Celebrity monitors the purchasing habits of the younger generation and they know that these young people have no issue with high debt - so they will purchase a cruise on any line with no worry about the future, nor cost to be frank - makes corporate sense to pursue this group and jettison the long term customers

 

4) Since most lines are reporting full ships, the "obedient consumer" is alive and well and that allows Celebrity and all cruise lines (like the current angst on NCL) to raise charges. People still post that the beverage packages are "free" - truly?

 

Rather like taking the consumer for granted cause the consumer is doing nothing to change this.

 

Until such time as consumers stop purchasing expect the continued downgrade of product at higher prices.

 

Our household has ended all cruising for the foreseeable future because all cruises lines are in the same mode as Celebrity.

 

If Celebrity stabilizes and can demonstrate where they "sit" in the cruise hierarchy, what is their product offering, at what price and that it is consistently delivered - then we will consider patronizing them in the future.

 

For those continuing to patronize Celebrity - hope that you enjoy the cruise and have a safe and wonderful experience.

 

ABoatNerd

 

Well said and many of my own thoughts about Celebrity. We have a TA on Reflection booked for this April, booked when sailing was first made available and at what were much more reasonable prices, so we know we are lucky to have done this before that jump. But we also know it may well be our last Celebrity cruise for the foreseeable future. We will watch & see how Celebrity moves forward....

[ORV]

I guess people are going to see things the way they see them.

 

Just one point I'd like to make, I'm pretty sure Revenue Management at Celebrity & RCL have much better forecasting tools they use than looking at random posts on CC.

 

It's pretty easy. If you are no longer willing to pay the price that Celebrity is asking for their product then find something else, as some are saying they're doing. If Celebrity doesn't fill their ships at the prices they're asking then the price will get better.

 

Maybe I should look at some current prices but the cruises I have booked through Sept of this year were all reasonable. Maybe people need to realize that the days of a 7 day cruise in a balcony for $499 are gone and won't return.

 

On one hand people complain about the quality, then on the other hand they complain about the price being too high. I can't really figure what people expect. You can't have both.

[Gracie115]

I guess people are going to see things the way they see them.

 

Just one point I'd like to make, I'm pretty sure Revenue Management at Celebrity & RCL have much better forecasting tools they use than looking at random posts on CC.

 

It's pretty easy. If you are no longer willing to pay the price that Celebrity is asking for their product then find something else, as some are saying they're doing. If Celebrity doesn't fill their ships at the prices they're asking then the price will get better.

 

Maybe I should look at some current prices but the cruises I have booked through Sept of this year were all reasonable. Maybe people need to realize that the days of a 7 day cruise in a balcony for $499 are gone and won't return.

 

On one hand people complain about the quality, then on the other hand they complain about the price being too high. I can't really figure what people expect. You can't have both.

 

Well....no you can't but when the cruise I am currently booked on is over double the price for the same cruise next year....it is natural to look for explanations....one would think the product improved dramatically...it hasn't....same product....

 

I've not complained about quality, and certainly had no issue with pricing UNTIL the itineraries for 2017/18 started appearing with greatly increased pricing....we will see if they last....

[Host Jazzbeau]

I still don't get the Elite complaints about how the new pricing scheme dilutes their loyalty benefits. You don't have to go BEST! Go with the basic price and choose either gratuities or OBC depending on which is better for your cruise. Then you can use your free drinks instead of a beverage package. What am I missing?

[bottomfeeder]

I still don't get the Elite complaints about how the new pricing scheme dilutes their loyalty benefits. You don't have to go BEST! Go with the basic price and choose either gratuities or OBC depending on which is better for your cruise. Then you can use your free drinks instead of a beverage package. What am I missing?

 

Exactly. Or buy the cruise without the Good Better Best promo at all. They do still have prices that don't include any, and for some people (like me, though I cruise solo which has some effect on the value of the promotions) the best price is the one without the "freebies".