Noro-Virus Opinion

[14thmed]

Put me in the Foot-Flusher group.

[17cruisesnsl]

A sad but true reality is that hand hygiene is one of the greatest challenges facing our healthcare institutions. When we can't get our healthcare providers, who are well acquainted with infection prevention measures to consistently wash their hands, is it any wonder you see poor hygiene in a public washroom?

 

Noro virus is very dangerous, especially to the very young, the elderly and those with a compromised immune system.

 

In early 2012, we were on a ship where the outbreak was handled very poorly -so poorly that there is an asterisk on the CDC website regarding that outbreak. To add to a bad situation, the Captain kept announcing that his staff was tired. The medical staff arrived to our cabin without a stethoscope (and make sure they clean it before using it on you) and did not know the term Gatorade but said oh yes electrolytes good idea when I explained what Gatorade is. Staff that did not speak English arrived later with a specimen cup, no instructions and gloves too small for an adult hand. A letter with some basic recommendations, such as providing disposable gloves and disinfectant wipes to the folks with the sick passenger so as to attempt to further contain the illness, sent to the cruise line was not acknowledged. I don't know if the suggestion of better scripting for the Captain was accepted and I hope not to find out! I haven't returned to that well respected cruise line

 

I know that no system is foolproof and that Norovirus is very resilient and no hand sanitizer has been proven effective in killing it. Only a bleach solution works. I will pack a basic kit, including lots of hand sanitizer, disinfectant wipes, plastic gloves, plastic bags. I will try to remember to hit elevator buttons with knuckles or an edge of my shirt. I use a towel to open rest room doors. Don't forget to clean the casino slot buttons.

 

I will hope others are careful and that we all have a healthy cruise! Also that

the entrance staff at the buffets enforce hand washing and use of the hand sanitizer. We'll all be the better for it

[Aquahound]

Not necessarily "ingested"--the most common way it spreads on a ships is by touching an infected surface and then putting your fingers to any of your mucous membranes: eyes, nose, mouth, and <ahem> plumbing. So getting confrontational with a slob who doesn't wash their hands when leaving the public restroom is a waste of your energy: he's only going to make himself sick, not you--as long as you washed your hands.

 

I don't know about that. I never leave a restroom without washing my hands and I'm very health conscious when traveling. Yet, here I sit right now recovering from a very nasty bout of noro that I picked up at some point in my post holidays travel from Ohio back to my home in Florida. I have no idea where I picked it up because I never saw anyone sick, I never shared anything, I washed frequently, etc. Could have been that I picked it up from the seatback tray table on one of the planes, maybe from the ticket handler at the gate, maybe from touching the overhead bin. Who knows?

 

I hate to say it but sometimes you just can't avoid it. And for those who never had it, pray you never do. :(

[Mickfarland4]

The top of the table is wiped down between every meal, I dare say. How often do they wipe the edge of the table and the sides and back of the chairs?

 

I'll take my chances. I don't generally touch the edge of tables and as for chairs, you can't totally avoid germs. I said in an earlier post that our obsession with antibacterial soaps is IMO part of the issue to begin with. I don't feel we need antibacterial soap at every turn because it's killing the good bacteria on our hands too. Using Dove for over a month on 6+ different kids at different times, I have seen a decrease in the amount of sniffles and my hands are thanking me. :D Usually, with all the hand washing I do here to help them, my hands are cracked and painful by now in the winter but, because I happen to run out of liquid antibacterial soap and have been using Dove, I have none of that!;)

[Blondilu]

Why worry about the buffet? As you said, you wash the food from the grocery store. But the food from the buffet goes directly into your mouth. Stop "self serving" at ship buffets and it will put a tremendous dent in norovirus transmission.

 

Agreed, but my point is that the same people with the same hygiene issues are everywhere. And so is the Norovirus.

 

On my last cruise there was an outbreak. The captain came over the intercom at least twice a day to remind people to wash their hands (and sadly enough, HOW to wash their hands) before and after eating and smoking. And to not touch your face. Made me hyper aware of how often I do the later.

 

Funny thing is I'm no germaphope, maybe even opposite if there is such a thing. And I almost never get sick. The episode I had with Noro was the only time in at least 10 or so years I had been ill. Maybe a lot of it has to do with my own immune system. Even so I would hate to find out I was a carrier and made someone else sick.

 

So, wash your hands. A lot.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Blondilu

[Langley Cruisers]

Put me in the Foot-Flusher group.

 

Yea! Glad to know there are others out there. :p:D;)

[sail7seas]

Just as it's certainly easy enough to wash their hands after they flush. I am very "germ aware" and always go to the restroom just to wash my hands after reading menus too. I do not want my hand on the handle and I also do not wish to waste any tp when I have a perfectly good foot to do the dirty work for me. I see far too many people go to the bathroom and not wash their hands, so it is my call when I use a public toilet to use my foot to flush it. My concern at that moment is for my own well being, other people can look after their own well being by washing their hands after they touch the handle I used my foot to flush. :)

 

Oh, okay....... so easy enough for them to wash so you use your foot on the flusher.

 

Is it harder for some to wash than others? :confused:

 

[donaldsc]

I just lift my foot and flush the toilet. :D Obviously, this is only on the handle type flushers.

 

The problem that I see w the foot flush approach is that it is hard to get your foot into the sink to wash your foot. Then, how do you go about drying your foot?

 

DON

[dsrdsrdsr]

I'll take my chances. I don't generally touch the edge of tables and as for chairs, you can't totally avoid germs. I said in an earlier post that our obsession with antibacterial soaps is IMO part of the issue to begin with. I don't feel we need antibacterial soap at every turn because it's killing the good bacteria on our hands too. Using Dove for over a month on 6+ different kids at different times, I have seen a decrease in the amount of sniffles and my hands are thanking me. :D Usually, with all the hand washing I do here to help them, my hands are cracked and painful by now in the winter but, because I happen to run out of liquid antibacterial soap and have been using Dove, I have none of that!;)

 

When you're surrounded by children, do you still cover the soles of your feet with germs and spread them all round the floor?

Edited January 4, 2016 by dsrdsrdsr

[Mickfarland4]

Yes, I do flush the toilet with my foot because I personally do not like my hand to touch the handle. Yes, I do wash my hands after using the bathroom or helping a child use the restroom or looking at a menu at a restaurant but, in no way shape or form do I believe we should be eliminating all sources of germs. I said I believe that we have made the problem worse than it should be BY trying to eliminate them all. I can not shield all the kids from all the germs, whether I flush with my foot or my hand, nor do I try. I do however, try to instill in them good hygiene habits which leads to: them being in the habit of washing their hands before they eat, when we return from being out from any public venue, especially stores and school, and removing their shoes at the door. We do not walk around wiping all surfaces with a Clorox wipe. :rolleyes:

Edited January 4, 2016 by Mickfarland4

[Mickfarland4]

When you're surrounded by children, do you still cover the soles of your feet with germs and spread them all round the floor?

 

At a restaurant or store, absolutely, I do flush with my foot with my sons right there. Why on earth would I flush at home with my foot when surrounded by children, as you say? We don't wear our shoes in the house. I use my hand at home because I clean the toilet every day since I have so many kids using them.

[dsrdsrdsr]

At a restaurant or store, absolutely, I do flush with my foot with my sons right there. Why on earth would I flush at home with my foot when surrounded by children, as you say? We don't wear our shoes in the house. I use my hand at home because I clean the toilet every day since I have so many kids using them.

 

It just seems a bit illogical that you disapprove of people who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom, because they're spreading germs; and yet you deliberately put your foot on the dirtiest place on the ship before walking round the ship, trailing your germs everywhere you go, having made no attempt (as far as I can see) to wash your shoes before leaving the bathroom.

[Mickfarland4]

It just seems a bit illogical that you disapprove of people who don't wash their hands after using the bathroom, because they're spreading germs; and yet you deliberately put your foot on the dirtiest place on the ship before walking round the ship, trailing your germs everywhere you go, having made no attempt (as far as I can see) to wash your shoes before leaving the bathroom.

 

My apologies....I didn't realize there were people eating off of the ship's floors. :eek:

[sail7seas]

My apologies....I didn't realize there were people eating off of the ship's floors. :eek:

 

Have you never heard of the five second rule? :D

 

I fell for it when you first stated you used your foot in that manner but am unable to process this as really being true. It is so unpleasant an image, I will choose to think you are having a bit of a joke on us. :)

 

[Langley Cruisers]

My apologies....I didn't realize there were people eating off of the ship's floors. :eek:

 

LOL :D

 

I fell for it when you first stated you used your foot in that manner but am unable to process this as really being true. It is so unpleasant an image, I will choose to think you are having a bit of a joke on us.

 

It's not a joke, hon. I, and several others, have stated that we flush with our foot. Is it so hard to believe? Although I do choose with care - the toilets on RCI and in restaurants that have the PUSH flush are easy. The handle ones - I do not use my foot.

 

If this is so unappealing to you, you could certainly use a small square of toilet paper to touch the flusher from now on. :) And I know you are one of the ones who always washes her hands upon exiting the stall. Whatever is "on your hand" from the bathroom stall will be washed away with soap and warm water.

 

Basically, I think it's really up to each individual to take as much care as possible to help avoid Noro and such. Washing hands well, using hand sanitizer as a supplement to hand washing, using a paper towel or tissue to open the rest room door, not touching your face, using elbow or knuckle to push elevator buttons..... all of these things will help. :)

 

.

[K&RCurt]

I would have likely said something to this individual, but mostly because it is so ingrained in me due to my work. I am involved in making packaging material for food products, so hygiene surrounding food safety has been part of my training, as I am certified in HACCP and Safe Quality Foods practices. We not only monitor that employees here DO wash their hands, but how effectively they perform hand washing. (And no, we don't follow everyone into the bathroom, hands have to be washed before entering the factory floor.) So it is quite natural for me to say to someone "How about you try again with a little more soap, and say the alphabet twice for timing." I would try not to be confrontational, but I would say something, for sure.

 

It surprises me that public restroom are so often designed with door that open "in" and require you to go out of your way to not touch the handle / knob to get out. And the waste basket is often far from the door, making taking a paper towel to open the door more difficult. All of our restroom doors open "out" so you don't need to touch them with your hands as you exit. We also have all automatic flush systems on the toilets and urinals as well as auto on for the faucets, auto soap dispensers and towel dispensers. You would think cruise ships would be designed with hygiene more in mind.

 

One other quick thing while we are on the subject of bathrooms. I will start by saying I am trained as a Chemist. A bathroom is the one place where you can always tell if someone is a Chemist. Chemists ALWAYS wash their hands BEFORE they use the facility!

[payankee]

I agree with those who say that saying anything to the person who didn't wash his hands is dangerous. I would rather see ships have a device at the entrance of a stall that is motion activated. When you pass through it a loud voice says "please wash your hands before leaving the restroom". Same could be done in front of each urinal.

[sail7seas]

LOL :D

 

 

 

It's not a joke, hon. I, and several others, have stated that we flush with our foot. Is it so hard to believe? Although I do choose with care - the toilets on RCI and in restaurants that have the PUSH flush are easy. The handle ones - I do not use my foot.

 

If this is so unappealing to you, you could certainly use a small square of toilet paper to touch the flusher from now on. :) And I know you are one of the ones who always washes her hands upon exiting the stall. Whatever is "on your hand" from the bathroom stall will be washed away with soap and warm water.

 

Basically, I think it's really up to each individual to take as much care as possible to help avoid Noro and such. Washing hands well, using hand sanitizer as a supplement to hand washing, using a paper towel or tissue to open the rest room door, not touching your face, using elbow or knuckle to push elevator buttons..... all of these things will help. :)

 

.

 

 

Let's skip the 'hon' business. Thanks. ;)

It does nothing to advance the conversation.

 

I have found this thread very enlightening. I never cease to be amazed.

 

 

(my bold above in the quoted message)

Edited January 4, 2016 by sail7seas

[Langley Cruisers]

Let's skip the 'hon' business. Thanks. ;)

It does nothing to advance the conversation.

 

It was a genuine term of endearment. I appreciate your contribution to these boards. It meant nothing less than that.

[cbr663]

We were on a HAL cruise in early December and there were 2 things that were very different on this cruise:

 

1. We received a letter asking that we wash our hands frequently and that we avoid using the public restrooms whenever possible. We were encouraged to only use our cabin washroom.

 

2. There were no crew standing outside the Lido and the MDR squirting hand sanitizer at you whenever you tried to walk by.

 

I wonder does encouraging passengers to not use public washrooms actually lessen the risk of noro?

[luddite]

We were on a HAL cruise in early December and there were 2 things that were very different on this cruise:

 

1. We received a letter asking that we wash our hands frequently and that we avoid using the public restrooms whenever possible. We were encouraged to only use our cabin washroom.

 

2. There were no crew standing outside the Lido and the MDR squirting hand sanitizer at you whenever you tried to walk by.

 

I wonder does encouraging passengers to not use public washrooms actually lessen the risk of noro?

 

Did you have salt and pepper shakers on the tables?

Were there attendants doing the serving at the hog trough,errrrrrr....buffet?

 

Those are signs that they are cleaning up from a noro outbreak.

[iheartbda]

Isn't it just as easy to use a paper towel, grab on your way in, as it is to balance on one foot to flush with the other? I can't help but think that the door handle is just as dirty as the flush handle. What do you do about that?

 

By using your foot to flush, you are leaving far more germs, since floors are the dirtiest surface in a restroom, on it for the next person who comes in.

[Mickfarland4]

Isn't it just as easy to use a paper towel, grab on your way in, as it is to balance on one foot to flush with the other? I can't help but think that the door handle is just as dirty as the flush handle. What do you do about that?

 

By using your foot to flush, you are leaving far more germs, since floors are the dirtiest surface in a restroom, on it for the next person who comes in.

 

I already stated that I do a towel to open restroom doors if it is an "in" opening type door. I do not wish to waste tp to flush when I have a perfectly good foot that fan do that for me. I do not waste towels for the door because I simply use the one I dried my hands with after washing. If no towels or tp are available, I use my sleeve or coat as a last resort. I do not see a problem with being a foot flusher and putting germs on the handle because I am doing it to avoid germs and think everyone should he washing their hands upon exiting a stall, whether they use it or not. There are plenty of times I take my kids to the restroom and dont go hut, still wash my hands because I touch the door to that stall.

[sail7seas]

It was a genuine term of endearment. I appreciate your contribution to these boards. It meant nothing less than that.

 

:rolleyes: It keeps getting better.

 

Waste toilet paper? No one suggested you use a whole roll but really....... how much does it take to fold a few thickness and push the toilet flush? Come on, really?

 

I think I am starting to understand,,,,, maybe?

You don't care if you risk infecting someone else by using your foot where you know a hand will likely be used. You just care that no one infects you? Am I onto the joke yet? Maybe it 'serves them right' if they don't wash with hot water, soap and sing Happy Birthday through twice?? :D

 

 

 

[damiross]

I'm curious about something. And before anyone starts yelling at me, this is not meant to be racist; it happens to be my personal observations.

 

Are the people flushing the toilet with their foot or using paper towels/toilet paper to use the door handle oriental? I've noticed this at work and many other places: the ones who do this are Asian.

 

Again, this is not racist - it is only my observation over the years.