Notification FRom HAL re: dining on Westerdam 2/20

[Blue Mudshark]

I agree. Until HAL comes up with a better solution, withholding the daily service charge is the only way a passenger can fight a wrong. After all, HAL does give you that option.

Withholding the service charge does nothing at all to fight a wrong. It just punishes people who are not responsible for the problem and have no authority to change it.

[Lizzie68]

Withholding the service charge does nothing at all to fight a wrong. It just punishes people who are not responsible for the problem and have no authority to change it.

 

I agree, and it doesn't hurt HAL one tiny bit. It's frustrating, however, that there seems to be no way - other than not cruising HAL again - to protest shabby and arbitrary treatment.

[kevingastreich]

Withholding the service charge does nothing at all to fight a wrong. It just punishes people who are not responsible for the problem and have no authority to change it.

 

I wish there was a way to withhold tips for some people and not others. I mean, you can give cash to whomever you want to but you can't do the same in reverse. Maybe the people who get less tips because of HAL's policies will put pressure on HAL to change their ways. Short of never booking another HAL cruise, it's all we've got.

[Cruising-along]

Withholding the service charge does nothing at all to fight a wrong. It just punishes people who are not responsible for the problem and have no authority to change it.

 

Not to mention they're working harder than ever to try to make everyone happy, as noted in another post. The poor stewards are caught between a rock and a hard place.

 

There will be an inspiration group on the 2nd half of our 14-day Caribbean cruise next year. 650 of them. I plan to complain whenever and wherever I have to if we are denied access to areas of the ship and/or kicked out of the MDR. Funny, because I've always hated "complainers" but in a case like this it's warranted. :(

[joepeka]

I wish there was a way to withhold tips for some people and not others. I mean, you can give cash to whomever you want to but you can't do the same in reverse. Maybe the people who get less tips because of HAL's policies will put pressure on HAL to change their ways. Short of never booking another HAL cruise, it's all we've got.

 

Unfortunately, the people who get the tips on a cruise liner are in no position to influence the decision makers in this type situation. I too wish there were a way to "vigorously encourage" the cruise lines to be open and honest about large group sailings but as I mentioned earlier, integrity and the financial bottom line are not always compatible concepts. :(

[sail7seas]

I wish there was a way to withhold tips for some people and not others. I mean, you can give cash to whomever you want to but you can't do the same in reverse. Maybe the people who get less tips because of HAL's policies will put pressure on HAL to change their ways. Short of never booking another HAL cruise, it's all we've got.

 

The major policies are set in Seattle and not on the ship. The Officers and Crew aboard are tasked with implementing those on board policies. They are not the 'bad guys' in this circumstance. Seattle sells huge number of cabins to a group, the crew on board know all the difficulties and displeasure that will be caused with it and there is no choice for them but to do their jobs.

 

To withhold crew tips is punishment to hard working people who do not deserve punishment for doing their job the best they are able.

 

[mtiffany24]

Thanks for this thread. Just found out there is an "inspiration" group on the Aug 6 sailing of the Westerdam to Alaska and am working to change our date to the 13th.

 

Thanks! thanks!

[knittinggirl]

I suspect by withholding partial tips, the people doing the work would miss out completely. ON a recent cruise, we attempted to add additional tip to the bill, and our Asst waiter said by the time it's split up, he only get's 5% of it.

[knittinggirl]

Turn off the automatic gratuities, then tip in cash daily. That way, at least the pencil pushers don't get their cut.

Edited February 22, 2016 by knittinggirl

[sail7seas]

I suspect by withholding partial tips, the people doing the work would miss out completely. ON a recent cruise, we attempted to add additional tip to the bill, and our Asst waiter said by the time it's split up, he only get's 5% of it.

 

Some folks reading here may not know that if you leave the Hotel Service Charge in place, you can give anyone additional cash tips and they get to keep it all. The best way to tip specific people 'over and above' is by cash directly to those people.

 

[RuthC]

Turn off the automatic gratuities, then tip in cash daily. That way, at least the pencil pushers don't get their cut.

Probable winner of the worst idea award.

If you "turn off" the Hotel Service Charge and tip in cash, every penny of that must be turned in to the pool. Oh, and the "pencil pushers", as you put it, don't get a cut.

[Dashwood100]

If you "turn off" the Hotel Service Charge and tip in cash, every penny of that must be turned in to the pool.

 

How would the "pool" know that you gifted those who deserve your thanks [and left nothing those who do not] and why would they have to put every penny into said pool?

[Cindy]

Unfortunately, the only people hurt by removing the HSC are the people who work so hard to ensure you have an enjoyable cruise. The room stewards and wait staff have no bearing or influence at all over corporate policy.

[dakrewser]

How would the "pool" know that you gifted those who deserve your thanks [and left nothing those who do not] and why would they have to put every penny into said pool?

 

Because a) it's a condition of their contract and b) the crew are a lot more honest than many passengers.

[joepeka]

How would the "pool" know that you gifted those who deserve your thanks [and left nothing those who do not] and why would they have to put every penny into said pool?

I guess I was wondering the same thing when Ruth made that comment but assumed I was just ignorant of the behind the scenes process the cruise line uses for distributing tips. I have been told more than once by ship's staff that a cash gratuity directly to the person is kept by that person and is not pooled/shared but then again, we've never removed the HSC from any of our cruises either. How would the crew member know we removed the HSC and therefore be compelled to put their cash tips into the pool? :confused: I have heard "rumors" on another line that a list of the guests who have removed HSC/tips from their onboard account is distributed to the crew but it was unclear if that was true.

Edited February 22, 2016 by joepeka

[kftw]

IHow would the crew member know we removed the HSC and therefore be compelled to put their cash tips into the pool?

 

I know on other lines the steward will have a list of passengers who have had the tips removed. Most important - is your room steward will be questioned as to why the tips were removed as if it was because of his actions. Any monies given in addition to the daily charge is theirs to keep.

[joepeka]

I know on other lines the steward will have a list of passengers who have had the tips removed. Most important - is your room steward will be questioned as to why the tips were removed as if it was because of his actions. Any monies given in addition to the daily charge is theirs to keep.

 

Yes, as I mention above, I too have heard that. I'm just not sure how crew members are compelled to put those tips into a pool even if the person that gave them the tip had removed HSC. I do apologize if I have contributed to allowing this thread to degenerate into an HSC/tipping discussion..... but I didn't bring it up! :)

Edited February 23, 2016 by joepeka

[Dashwood100]

Because a) it's a condition of their contract and b) the crew are a lot more honest than many passengers.

 

Just asking, so if I reduce the HSC to say $2.00 a day [so it makes the contract] and put the rest of the monies to the crew that deserve it by going above and beyond would that work?

 

I am concerned because my first HAL cruise the dinning room staff were deplorable, however the cabin staff and spa staff made up for them. We even chucked our main dinning spot [to be alone with out the group] once for a earlier one [they did question that but did give us a table] and the guy that served us was so much better and he was only on staff for a month. The wait staff [other than our two top guy] did not deserve any extra as they did less than what was expected. Note; this is the only problem I have ever had with any of HAL's crew as all the others tried to do the extra mile. I also do not stiff on the HSC although in the first case I would have liked to but other made a difference. I did note this in my exit survey. What does one do when service is lacking?

 

 

I believe that the crew are honest, they have full range access of my personal belongings excepting what I remember to put in the safe, that is of course, if I remember. :)

 

D

[RuthC]

Just asking, so if I reduce the HSC to say $2.00 a day [so it makes the contract] and put the rest of the monies to the crew that deserve it by going above and beyond would that work?

No. If you wish to give out cash tips, and you want those who receive them to keep them, then you must leave the Hotel Service Charge at the full amount.

 

The stewards get a list of everyone who has removed or reduced the HSC, so they know whether or not they can keep cash tips. If they want to keep their jobs, they comply with the terms of the contract they agreed to.

Remember, they all live in very close quarters, and would not be able to keep cheating a secret for very long---even if they were inclined to try.

[sail7seas]

How would the "pool" know that you gifted those who deserve your thanks [and left nothing those who do not] and why would they have to put every penny into said pool?

 

 

Honor. We like to think there are mostly honest people in the world but for the skeptics......

 

Stewards know pretty much how much each is getting in 'over and above' tips or tips from guests who removed HSC. If a certain steward continuously reports lower than the average of all the others, there are two reasons: S/he is either not doing a good job for their guests or they are trying to cheat the pool and not report that money. They all live and work together and the majority want another contract to return again and again to the ships. That is the work they have chosen to support their families. If caught 'cheating', they can be sure they will not get another contract.

 

 

 

Just asking, so if I reduce the HSC to say $2.00 a day [so it makes the contract] and put the rest of the monies to the crew that deserve it by going above and beyond would that work?

 

I am concerned because my first HAL cruise the dinning room staff were deplorable, however the cabin staff and spa staff made up for them. We even chucked our main dinning spot [to be alone with out the group] once for a earlier one [they did question that but did give us a table] and the guy that served us was so much better and he was only on staff for a month. The wait staff [other than our two top guy] did not deserve any extra as they did less than what was expected. Note; this is the only problem I have ever had with any of HAL's crew as all the others tried to do the extra mile. I also do not stiff on the HSC although in the first case I would have liked to but other made a difference. I did note this in my exit survey. What does one do when service is lacking?

 

 

I believe that the crew are honest, they have full range access of my personal belongings excepting what I remember to put in the safe, that is of course, if I remember. :)

 

D

 

If you do not leave the full HSC in place, anything you give to them privately has to be pooled.

 

[whogo]

I have never reduced the hotel service charge. If I were in the OP's shoes and had crummy dining experiences because a large group commandeered the room and I was tossed out, I would consider removing the hotel service charge. I would explain in writing why I did so. I would realize that I may be blackballed by staff on any future HAL cruises, but what else are cruisers to do when they receive lousy service? As long as people accept chocolate covered strawberries in lieu of adequate service nothing will change.

[jedwards01]

Now I want you to know I am not recommending a passenger revolt but one could have a few laughs if one brought a few T shirts with "666" on them or "Satan's Hideout" or "Atheists Convention in Cabin ___" . Sometimes a little push back gets the attention of the powers to be. And I do understand the brig gets room service.

 

I'm thinking everybody that's not in "THE" group wear rainbow t-shirts as often as possible just for grins. And try striking up conversations all over the ship.

[poconut]

I'm thinking everybody that's not in "THE" group wear rainbow t-shirts as often as possible just for grins. And try striking up conversations all over the ship.

 

I like that idea.:D

I just hope there are no groups on my cruise, it's only 7 days.

[dakrewser]

I have never reduced the hotel service charge. If I were in the OP's shoes and had crummy dining experiences because a large group commandeered the room and I was tossed out, I would consider removing the hotel service charge. I would explain in writing why I did so. I would realize that I may be blackballed by staff on any future HAL cruises, but what else are cruisers to do when they receive lousy service? As long as people accept chocolate covered strawberries in lieu of adequate service nothing will change.

 

As has been said a number of times - you're stiffing the wrong people. If you don't like the decisions that HAL corporate has made - complain to them. Fill out your survey accordingly. Vow never again to darken their doorway unless they change their ways. But don't stiff the folks who are actually working to see that you enjoy the cruise.

[Blue Mudshark]

No. If you wish to give out cash tips, and you want those who receive them to keep them, then you must leave the Hotel Service Charge at the full amount.

 

The stewards get a list of everyone who has removed or reduced the HSC, so they know whether or not they can keep cash tips. If they want to keep their jobs, they comply with the terms of the contract they agreed to.

Remember, they all live in very close quarters, and would not be able to keep cheating a secret for very long---even if they were inclined to try.

 

Does the crew actually itemize all their cash tips by amount and passenger name? If not, and a passenger removes the HSC on the last day of the cruise, how do the crew remember all the cash amounts and who paid them from the beginning of the cruise?

 

Do they live in such close quarters that they all know how much cash everyone else has, and where they received it?

 

Color me skeptical.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Blue Mudshark