Phony Formalism

[hermang]

Why don't you just go on a less formal "lake".

If you don't have the right fishing permit, get off the lake.

I am baffled that people go on a cruise line that stipulates a formal standard, when they know from the outset that they will not abide by the rules. It's not as if there aren't any other companies!

There is no where that says if you don't dress according to the so called Standard you will be thrown over the side or flogged at dawn.

Celebrity "suggests" Not insists or demands as a consequence for taking my money that I MUST wear a tuxedo on formal night. Check your cruise contract - it too does not specify your dress as a requirement for taking your money.

 

All I am trying to say - and this argument has gone on for months - If a passenger chooses to wear a suit and tie, jacket and tie or tux for formal night what is the big deal. If you feel that is spoiling your cruise experience maybe you are the one that should find a more formal lake. Frankly I am on vacation while on board and could care less what you wear -

[hermang]

To compare to speeding or running a red light would make sense if X would enforce there rules like law enforcement does. Sure they don't catch everybody speeding but at least they try to. X does not care at all if you break or bend the rules. I really believe that the people here understand the formal guidelines it's that other 98% that don't read these post that concern me. Preaching and praying about it hear won't reach those people. They gonna do what they wanna do without your concern or passion about the situation. I feel confident X staff does read these boards. So like you speeders out there go ahead and show up on formal night in your best pressed jeans and Tshirt and someday you will be turned away. This will put a serious damper on your vacation and hopefully you won't be back on X line again as you prove to yourself and the others that wittnessed your embarrsing turn away it was the ship's fault you didn't know about it. I was on one ship(HAL) that the marti'de came and asked an entire family of 6 to leave on formal night due to their dress. The persons around their table clapped and cheered as they left the dining room. I bet that was their last cruise.

 

No sir - I was not advocating pressed jeans or t shirts for formal night by any means. what I did say or meant to say is that Suit and Tie, Jacket and Tie or Tux should be acceptable.

[canderson]

No sir - I was not advocating pressed jeans or t shirts for formal night by any means. what I did say or meant to say is that Suit and Tie, Jacket and Tie or Tux should be acceptable.

Well, 2 out of 3 ain't bad -- closer than some.

[DonLou]

I took the Snob test and got 75! One of the things it said was "You are superficial." I knew I was super at something!:)

 

Honey!!! Where's my tux. I gotta wear it every night.

[mechcc]

.I just saw on another thread a list of cruiselines and the expected dress 'requirements' (which aren't in fact requirements at all) and NCL has an exception for their cruises that leave from TX....denim is allowed in the dining room on all ships departing from the Lone Start State :eek:

I think that is totally bizzare!

Are you telling me that no man in Texas owns a suit???? :confused:

 

I guess I am WAY too much a Yankee.

 

Yes you are WAY too much a Yankee!!! There are other ways of life beyond that of the Puritan Yankee. Texas culture has several acceptable levels of jeans. Am I wrong for wearing white shoes after labor day when the tempeture still registers over 95 degrees? Must be living in South Texas versus north of the Mason-Dixon Line.

 

Life and history is different from place to place. The greatest thing about travelling is being able to see different ways of life and by learning from them we may be able to improve humanity on a whole.

 

Dressy informal dress for a German Person of Bavarian decent would include Leterhosen. For those that don't know, they are leather shorts worn with ornate suspenders, nice collared shirt, and knee high socks. Very traditional. Wrong to wear to dinner on an international cruise? Or informative and educational to fellow passengers?

 

PS. My snob score was only 15%. Proud of that one. Brought on by living, traveling and expierencing life beyond where I grew up. And no I won't show up on Celebrity, or RCL, in anything that my Southern Mother would not deem appropriate. Unless it's white shoes after Labor Day.:)

[caviargal]

Yes you are WAY too much a Yankee!!! .Life and history is different from place to place. The greatest thing about travelling is being able to see different ways of life and by learning from them we may be able to improve humanity on a whole.

 

Dressy informal dress for a German Person of Bavarian decent would include Leterhosen. For those that don't know, they are leather shorts worn with ornate suspenders, nice collared shirt, and knee high socks. Very traditional. Wrong to wear to dinner on an international cruise? Or informative and educational to fellow passengers?

 

.QUOTE]

 

I am also a Yankee and happy to be one.

 

Yes, life is different from place to place and I have travelled since a young age to many different countries. While "lederhosen" is indeed a form of traditonal Bavarian dress, they are not considered formal attire, unless things have changes sinced I went to college there.

 

I do see lots of jeans when I am in TX. While they may be fine for Texans to wear to restaurants, I would not do so myself as I do not consider them to be appropriate attire for a cruise ship dining room at dinner nor a nice restaurant here at home.

 

When I am in other countries, I respect their form of dress. I would not dream of wearing shorts in Italy or trying to enter a church in a revealing top. While that might be what some Americans think is appropriate, it is disrepectful to the Italians.

 

My point to all this is that while we might have our regional and cultural differences, I believe these should not take precedence over the culture and mores of the places we visit.

 

For me, that would include a cruise ship.

 

CG

[hdawson]

Caviargirl. Again, agreeing completely. Good point about how some Americans dress when visiting foreign cultures. There have been many reports over the years of American showing up at the great European cathedrals and churches in inappropriate attire. I think there is actually an apparel "police" at St Peters, mostly because of Americans lack of consideration. I seem to remember the term "ugly Americans".

 

mchcc. Question; are there any cruises that only cruise in Texas?

 

Whatever happened to the thought of "When in Rome, do as the Romans do"

I think that might be interpreted as showing respect.

[C 2 C]

From Emily Post:

 

 

"Thus Best Society is not a fellowship of the wealthy, nor does it seek to exclude those who are not of exalted birth; but it is an association of gentle-folk, of which good form in speech, charm of manner, knowledge of the social amenities, and instinctive consideration for the feelings of others, are the credentials by which society the world over recognizes its chosen members."

[F5Loar]

I guess Emily Post never cruised Carnival!

The when in Rome saying works too but why not just use common sense?

The cruise line (host)that you choose has asked nicely in written forms for all to see that you please conform to their unrestraining suggested dress codes for dinner. The least you can do is nicely accept those guidelines and pack accordingly even if you have to buy a few things. Anything other than this is socially unacceptable and looked down upon as uncouth! That is what is right and right will always be right and wrong continues to be wrong. There is no way to sugarcoat this with excusses to convince yourself they are wrong to ask you to dress nicely for dinner. If they didn't care they would not ask.

[halos]

Yes you are WAY too much a Yankee!!! There are other ways of life beyond that of the Puritan Yankee.

 

Yeah, I'm sure there are, but I live in a place where men are in flannel 6 months of the year and I'll be darned if I ever saw one wear their 'plaid' to a formal event....they are aware that there is a time and place to be dressed properly...especially if proper dress is 'requested'. Does this mean we Yankees understand what a request is...or maybe we just respect a request more?

 

The bottom line is that if the ships don't enforce the rules (not that it isn't sad that they need enforcing in the first place) this discussion will always continue.

[mechcc]

My comments about jeans was in response to jeans being allowed on ships sailing from Texas. Jeans are acceptable in Texas at most places, not all, but most. So if you apply the "When in Rome...." elsewhere why not on ships sailing from Texas?

 

I also didn't say Lederhosen were formal, but they are casual and accepted in resturants - again unless things have changed from the 9 years I lived there.

[halos]

My comments about jeans was in response to jeans being allowed on ships sailing from Texas. Jeans are acceptable in Texas at most places, not all, but most. So if you apply the "When in Rome...." elsewhere why not on ships sailing from Texas? .

 

I understand what you're saying, but if that's the case then won't they soon be making it Ok for all cruisers who leave from a Florida port to wear shorts in the dining room? Isn't that the same thing?

It just doesn't make sense to me....but then again, I'm not a Texan ;)

[canderson]

My comments about jeans was in response to jeans being allowed on ships sailing from Texas. Jeans are acceptable in Texas at most places, not all, but most. So if you apply the "When in Rome...." elsewhere why not on ships sailing from Texas?

Guess what's accepted depends on where you are in Texas.

 

Was just reviewing places to eat when we arrive early for our Galveston departure. Seems that Clary's Seafood even requires that men wear jackets at lunch.

 

You don't suppose they mean old Houston Oiler's jackets over jeans, do you?

[mechcc]

I understand what you're saying, but if that's the case then won't they soon be making it Ok for all cruisers who leave from a Florida port to wear shorts in the dining room? Isn't that the same thing?

It just doesn't make sense to me....but then again, I'm not a Texan ;)

 

I think I've been busted. I have been playing the role of Devil's Advocate on this issue. One of the reason I won't cruise NCL is the overall atmosphere where jeans are accepted.

 

But at the same time there may be a large market for people who do not want any formal meals at all and would love to wear jeans and shorts to dinner. If I was in the cruise business I would want a group of products so that each product would appeal to a different group. Essentially, that is what is happening slowly. For lines like Celebrity and HAL, the dress code should be enforced as that appears to be the desires of the majority of their customers.

[mechcc]

Guess what's accepted depends on where you are in Texas.

 

Was just reviewing places to eat when we arrive early for our Galveston departure. Seems that Clary's Seafood even requires that men wear jackets at lunch.

 

You don't suppose they mean old Houston Oiler's jackets over jeans, do you?

 

Bet you could enter in a pair of nice neatly pressed jeans, clean cowboy boots, clean neat shirt with a collar, tie, and a sports jacket. At least at lunch. Not unusal wear for Texans.

[albertiger]

Fashion Police in Europe? i got news for you,

They're HERE and they're coming for YOU!:eek:

[canderson]

Bet you could enter in a pair of nice neatly pressed jeans, clean cowboy boots, clean neat shirt with a collar, tie, and a sports jacket. At least at lunch. Not unusal wear for Texans.

Will report back after seeing it first hand.

[Ekaj]

I just have to say that these threads crack me up! I gave up posting on them long ago, b/c I realized that Side "Dress Up" will never convince Side "Dress Down", and vice versa. I just think it's funny that everyone keeps trying. :D Thanks for giving us an amusing thread to read...;)

[Lifes2short]

I just have to say that these threads crack me up! I gave up posting on them long ago

 

Welcome Back! LOL....;) :)

Happy Sailings :)

[halos]

 

But at the same time there may be a large market for people who do not want any formal meals at all and would love to wear jeans and shorts to dinner. If I was in the cruise business I would want a group of products so that each product would appeal to a different group.

 

Can't argue with that ;) ....just as long as some lines keep some ships more traditional, then all will be OK.....

 

I guess that it works both ways, if someone prefers a more casual atmosphere than they should cruise a more casual line, and if I prefer a more formal atmosphere, I should cruise a more formal line (and that's not to say that once in a while a casual cruise isn't a bad thing for me...variety is the spice of life I guess) and not expect tuxes on an NCL ship out of TX.

I would just hope that the two different cruise style ships passengers stay segregated...as horrible as that sounds. It would just make this debate disappear. If the ships out of TX are that casual, it would seem for me, in my best interest that if this casualness is not what I'm looking for, I'd avoid that ship...so why would someone who wants to dress casual purposely get on a more formal ship/line??....it all goes back to the original question again.

 

If I don't want a lot of kids when I'm on vacation, I certainly don't plan a trip to Disney even though I like Disney.

If I don't want crowd but am in the mood for solitude, I don't head over to a big city for a fast paced vacation.

So...if someone wants casual and thinks that ties are nothing but a noose, why would they book an X cruise?

Maybe it's because I haven't sailed X yet and maybe X is THAT amazing that after sailing it I wouldn't want to sail any other line (that would be nice but I'm doubting that for the most part) ...and that's how these 'casual' people feel....they absolutely don't want another line, but they don't want formal.....I don't know. All I know is that unitl the kids are done college and I'm done with paying for weddings and stuff like that, Crystal is out of my price range ;)

[C 2 C]

Two things are infinite: (1)the universe and (2)human stupidity...and I'm not sure about the universe.

If formal/casual discussions are not the third then discussions must be covered under (2)

[unlimited]

With all the talk about dress up dress down does anyone have pictures of just what is considered formal especially for the ladies. The guys have it pretty easy dark suit or Tux.

unlimited

[one2fish]

In New Hampshire they have a motto.....LIVE FREE OR DIE. As for those who think putting on a tie and jacket is a chore....God bless "em ..... Me? I'll be that guy in the tie and jacket.... :cool: :cool: :cool:

[Lois R]

Hi...I never got involved in these threads anymore:eek:

but this is for unlimited

quote

"With all the talk about dress up dress down does anyone have pictures of just what is considered formal especially for the ladies. The guys have it pretty easy dark suit or Tux."

I just returned from sailing SUMMIT. Formal for women...are many different

things. I wore 2 long gowns....because........I LOVE DRESSING UP on

formal nights:)

You will see........cocktail dresses, long dresses, long skirts with pretty

tops, dressy pants and tops........pants suits.........

I never have the opportunity to dress up here at home. As I said, for me,

(and I can only speak for me) it is fun!

But you will see lots of ladies in different outfits.

[Cruise Arizona]

thanks Lois for the link, You always take the hi road an say out of mollasses.