Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[cheeseheads4ever]

Gracie115,

Where is WI?Lived in West DePere by Green Bay.we now live in FL. Took up cruising about 7 years ago and loved it.

You ever do ship excursions? In Barbados,St Thomas and St Kitts?

Any recommendationS?

[Kevnzworld]

I'd like to point out that starting in 2018 the new Edge class ships will debut.

From what I've heard they will be mostly suites, with 30% fewer passengers than Solstice. All specialty restaurants and no MDR.

That doesn't sound like down market to me

[DYKWIA]

I'd like to point out that starting in 2018 the new Edge class ships will debut.

From what I've heard they will be mostly suites, with 30% fewer passengers than Solstice. All specialty restaurants and no MDR.

That doesn't sound like down market to me

 

Mostly suites? As in more than 50% of the cabins will be suites?

 

where did you hearthese rumours? The latest Wiki entry indicates that Edge class ship gross tonnage will be very very slightly less and capacity very slightly higher. That would tend to make me think there will be less space per passenger not more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Cruises

 

A ship full of suites and speciality restaurants doesn't necessarily mean luxury. Isn't part of the Suite Class experience the limited availability which promotes exclusivity and helps drive the price up. Increase the numbers and you risk becoming a floating Homewood Suites or Embassy Suites - not Luxury by any definition. Not sure how Speciality restaurants Equate to luxury - aren't they often just restaurants you pay for - in some cases 3 times ( pay to eat in the MDR, pay an extra $45 to eat in Tuscan, pay an extra extra $15 to get a better steak in Tuscan)

 

didnt they try the concept of all Speciality dining (some at no extra cost ) on one of the RCL ships and then change the concept for their later ships?

Edited August 16, 2016 by DYKWIA

[Pavovsky]

Our experience on the Equinox in March was just the opposite. Based on our most recent experience, I would go on the Equinox again without hesitation.

 

 

I suggest you look at the reviews from the Med cruises this year. It looks like our experience is more the norm.

 

I guess the food offering and staffing on the Caribbean cruises is superior and akin to what we experienced last year or perhaps the cost cutting has only just commenced. Only time will tell when you cruise again on the Equinox.

[Gracie115]

Gracie115,

Where is WI?Lived in West DePere by Green Bay.we now live in FL. Took up cruising about 7 years ago and loved it.

You ever do ship excursions? In Barbados,St Thomas and St Kitts?

Any recommendationS?

 

Born in Kenosha....sister still in Milwaukee!! Used to visit Green Bay every summer as a kid because my Dad grew up there.....

 

We have done excursions in all of those but it's been awhile. We really liked Barbados, we did a tour of the island...very interesting the beaches on the east side are very different from the west... St Thomas we did the "Rhino Rider" excursion which was great fun. St Kitts we went through the rain forest but that was 15 years ago so don't even know if it's still offered.

[Gracie115]

Mostly suites? As in more than 50% of the cabins will be suites?

 

where did you hearthese rumours? The latest Wiki entry indicates that Edge class ship gross tonnage will be very very slightly less and capacity very slightly higher. That would tend to make me think there will be less space per passenger not more.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Cruises

 

A ship full of suites and speciality restaurants doesn't necessarily mean luxury. Isn't part of the Suite Class experience the limited availability which promotes exclusivity and helps drive the price up. Increase the numbers and you risk becoming a floating Homewood Suites or Embassy Suites - not Luxury by any definition. Not sure how Speciality restaurants Equate to luxury - aren't they often just restaurants you pay for - in some cases 3 times ( pay to eat in the MDR, pay an extra $45 to eat in Tuscan, pay an extra extra $15 to get a better steak in Tuscan)

 

didnt they try the concept of all Speciality dining (some at no extra cost ) on one of the RCL ships and then change the concept for their later ships?

 

On Royal the NEWEST class - Quantum created and still have the all Spec. Dining concept. They tried to introduce to the older ships(Oasis class) and it didn't work ...ship wasn't built for it.

 

Wiki is not the most reliable source for info..... On board Reflection this April the Captain discussed the Edge class and confirmed it will be smaller than the "S" Class, and have fewer passengers too.... I don't know about the "more suites" comment.

[DYKWIA]

On Royal the NEWEST class - Quantum created and still have the all Spec. Dining concept. They tried to introduce to the older ships(Oasis class) and it didn't work ...ship wasn't built for it.

 

Wiki is not the most reliable source for info..... On board Reflection this April the Captain discussed the Edge class and confirmed it will be smaller than the "S" Class, and have fewer passengers too.... I don't know about the "more suites" comment.

 

I thought they had changed the concept on board the Quantum class re dining since the original launch - then it was, I believe, reservations every night for any restaurant. Then I read they changed it to you move around the restaurants on a 3-4 night rotation.

 

 

Granted, Wikipedia isn't always the most reliable but there is a citation for the source of information, albeit December 2014.

Edited August 16, 2016 by DYKWIA

[Texed]

Our experience on the Equinox in March was just the opposite. Based on our most recent experience, I would go on the Equinox again without hesitation.

 

Ditto!

 

We had two excellent cruises, B2B, on Equinox in June/July :)

[brfan]

I thought they had changed the concept on board the Quantum class re dining since the original launch - then it was, I believe, reservations every night for any restaurant. Then I read they changed it to you move around the restaurants on a 3-4 night rotation.

 

 

Granted, Wikipedia isn't always the most reliable but there is a citation for the source of information, albeit December 2014.

 

On the Quantum class ships (at least on the Anthem, not sure about Quantum or Ovation) you have both options. Dynamic choice (where you can make reservations, similar to my time/select dining) and Dynamic Classic where you rotate to each of the restaurants on a set schedule with the same table/table mates and wait staff; similar to traditional dining, with early/late seating).

 

Royal had planned on the changing the dining on the Oasis class ships to Dynamic Dining and updated the dining rooms when they did the dry docks on Oasis and Allure. However possibly due to Dynamic Dining not being that popular they opted to not go ahead. However the dining rooms weren't changed back so perhaps sometime in the future they may change to that dining style on those ships.

[xmarksx]

I suggest you look at the reviews from the Med cruises this year. It looks like our experience is more the norm.

 

I guess the food offering and staffing on the Caribbean cruises is superior and akin to what we experienced last year or perhaps the cost cutting has only just commenced. Only time will tell when you cruise again on the Equinox.

 

Interesting, I have been reading every Med cruise review for the last couple of months (leaving August 29th) and have not noticed a negative trend. Please don't bother to respond with negative review links, it would be a waste of time. I did read your recent comments though.

[Pavovsky]

Interesting, I have been reading every Med cruise review for the last couple of months (leaving August 29th) and have not noticed a negative trend. Please don't bother to respond with negative review links, it would be a waste of time. I did read your recent comments though.

 

 

 

Hope you have a great cruise. Maybe myself and others who have highlighted recent issues on Equinox might influence management to rethink the cost cutting exercise.

 

For the benefit of other readers here and in case someone might think I was telling porkies here are the recent reviews which reflect some of the issues we faced:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542839

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542602

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542720

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542224

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=541968

 

Of course there are positive reviews also buy the 85% satisfaction rate is not reflected in those reviews.

Edited August 16, 2016 by Pavovsky

[ABoatNerd]

Yes indeed.

 

No more Celebrity Cruises for our family.

 

Perspective depends upon if you are a new customer or long time regular. Being the later, we have seen 2 things;

 

1. Celebrity cost cutting taking it from a true "premium" in the mass market to mass market, end stop

2. Inventing the "modern luxury" bull to entice new customers.

 

We used to be real loyal customers of Celebrity since 1992. Our last cruise on Infinity to South American a year ago included the shrilling sales pitches, downgraded offerings as typified by the fake cream for room service coffee.

 

Since Celebrity seems to have no issue filling their ships, the "obedient consumers" are alive and well.

 

When we hear "modern luxury" we take it to be the ENTIRE ship experience not just the suite class. Celebrity is a faker - a former great cruise line that was better than the rest in the mass market.

 

Since the cost cutting and sales gimmicks are used by all cruise lines, we have ended our cruising experience. We cruise via CC and enjoy being up to date on the happenings industry. We also benefit from a close friend who is an active TA in Toronto so we get comments on what her customers see happening in the industry. The negative comments across the board are rapidly increasing.

 

 

The poster who included the links from member reviews is spot on - the tipping point has been breached at Celebrity. The word is out about the cheapened former Celebrity.

 

For those who continue to patronize Celebrity be safe and enjoy.

 

ABoatNerd

[DYKWIA]

Hope you have a great cruise. Maybe myself and others who have highlighted recent issues on Equinox might influence management to rethink the cost cutting exercise.

 

For the benefit of other readers here and in case someone might think I was telling porkies here are the recent reviews which reflect some of the issues we faced:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542839

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542602

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542720

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542224

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=541968

 

Of course there are positive reviews also buy the 85% satisfaction rate is not reflected in those reviews.

 

Interesting, I feel some issues hilighted here might be down to the ship perhaps being at absolute maximum capacity due to it being a med cruise in the summer holidays. A lot of cabins will be having 3 or even 4 occupants instead of the usual 2 - hence restaurants will be busier, bar queues will be longer, staff more harried. This would be the same at virtually any Med vacation resort / hotel at this time.

 

A couple of the reviews you've listed seem very over the top and it seems the reviewer gave up trying to be objective about 4 words in, and thought they were writing a front page spread for the Daily Mail. These would be very unlikely to carry any weight if the reviewer was ever cross examined.

 

My wife and I personally have never found the upsell to be bothersome - but it is certainly there. We just say "no thanks" and move on, no one has ever chased after us, harangued us. Unfortunately upsell is the way of the world - the offer of chocolates for a £1 at WH Smith checkout tills, can I sell you an extended warranty with your new TV, how about we supply you Broadband with gas & electricity, shall I bring some Popadums whilst you wait, do you want to go large, shall I bring coffees with your bill ? 6 examples that I've had in the last few days ... On dry land.

 

We're on the Eclipse for the 3rd time in two years in September. It will be interesting to see how things have changed. We found a lot of things had improved second year on - food and entertainment were both better.

[Beanb41]

I don't think the down marketing is limited to one ship or class of ship. Celebrity Cruise lines are under pressure cut fares to attract a younger demographic. This attraction to a younger market is evident by the advertising and the employing younger cruise staff which more align with this new demographic. I have noticed over the past 18 months since we first started with cruising with X a definite swing away from the older demographic although this is currently their bread and butter. With extra perks being added as incentives and if prices are pegged or reduced then the first item of business to save money is cut back on staff. This is really obvious around the bars and in the main dining room where staff numbers especially waiters is significantly down on 18 months ago. In another effort to prune costs gratuities were increased from 12.5% to 18%. Competition from other cruise lines with their bigger ships and economies of scale must also affect X's bottom line hence cutbacks or increases in price have to occur. Who suffers the long standing loyal customers who when they have finally had enough will say that's me I am out of here. If one is earning millions of dollars sitting in a flash office in Miami does one really care whats happening at the coal face.

[aquanaut1]

Interesting, I feel some issues hilighted here might be down to the ship perhaps being at absolute maximum capacity due to it being a med cruise in the summer holidays. A lot of cabins will be having 3 or even 4 occupants instead of the usual 2 - hence restaurants will be busier, bar queues will be longer, staff more harried. This would be the same at virtually any Med vacation resort / hotel at this time.

 

 

 

A couple of the reviews you've listed seem very over the top and it seems the reviewer gave up trying to be objective about 4 words in, and thought they were writing a front page spread for the Daily Mail. These would be very unlikely to carry any weight if the reviewer was ever cross examined.

 

 

 

My wife and I personally have never found the upsell to be bothersome - but it is certainly there. We just say "no thanks" and move on, no one has ever chased after us, harangued us. Unfortunately upsell is the way of the world - the offer of chocolates for a £1 at WH Smith checkout tills, can I sell you an extended warranty with your new TV, how about we supply you Broadband with gas & electricity, shall I bring some Popadums whilst you wait, do you want to go large, shall I bring coffees with your bill ? 6 examples that I've had in the last few days ... On dry land.

 

 

 

We're on the Eclipse for the 3rd time in two years in September. It will be interesting to see how things have changed. We found a lot of things had improved second year on - food and entertainment were both better.

 

 

Totally agree .

As long as you can say no , which we do , it shouldnt bother .

We sail next Friday , need a holiday , totally shattered .... After a massive relocation and house move , so as long as the food and service is good , and the weather holds we shall be happy .

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Gracie115]

Hope you have a great cruise. Maybe myself and others who have highlighted recent issues on Equinox might influence management to rethink the cost cutting exercise.

 

For the benefit of other readers here and in case someone might think I was telling porkies here are the recent reviews which reflect some of the issues we faced:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542839

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542602

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542720

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=542224

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=541968

Of course there are positive reviews also buy the 85% satisfaction rate is not reflected in those reviews.

 

Just one question....why would the "85% satisfaction rate" not reflect the poor reviews you mention....of course they do....otherwise if "negative" reviews weren't included wouldn't that number be 100%???

[wallie5446]

Our experience on the Equinox in March was just the opposite. Based on our most recent experience, I would go on the Equinox again without hesitation.

 

Ditto!

 

We had two excellent cruises, B2B, on Equinox in June/July :)

 

We just booked our 3rd 10+ day cruise on the Equinox.

[Pavovsky]

Just one question....why would the "85% satisfaction rate" not reflect the poor reviews you mention....of course they do....otherwise if "negative" reviews weren't included wouldn't that number be 100%???

 

 

 

that is a fair question and I should have been clearer. The rating of 85% satisfaction is based on 7 years of reviews. If there are a series of negative reviews due to a change of strategy/moving down market then this satisfaction rate will go down. So if someone was to look at the rating for June and July, I would guess that the satisfaction rate was less than 85%. If we had seen the same trend of reviews in April and May we would probably have cancelled.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Pavovsky

[Gracie115]

Because that is based on 7 years of reviews. If there are a series of negative reviews due to a change of strategy then this number will go down.

 

okay...I understand.....thanks for clarifying.

[Pavovsky]

okay...I understand.....thanks for clarifying.

 

 

 

I edited afterwards. I should have been clearer and it was a fair question to ask.

[xmarksx]

I edited afterwards. I should have been clearer and it was a fair question to ask.

 

Pavovsky, I do appreciate what you have to say because you have sailed recently, have cogent concerns and do not appear to be wanting to keep bringing up these complaints over, and over. Thanks for the nice comment about my upcoming trip, I am really looking forward to it.

 

I do believe some who complain are working against their own best interest. As someone recently pointed out, many of the complaints are pretty outlandish and walk the line of being petty. I shake my head whenever someone says that the food in Oceanview/MDR/Tuscan... was inedible. If I were in customer service and someone hit me with that complaint I would realize there was really no way to please them. If those complaining were truly trying to impact leadership within RCI/Celebrity they might do so with a more rational approach. They also might realize that it is doubtful RCI/Celebrity leadership peruse these boards. Do they use social media as a tool to gauge satisfaction? I am sure they do (at least we do where I work). However, it is but one communication avenue and I wouldn't oversell importance.

[CruisingChick]

Pavovsky, I do appreciate what you have to say because you have sailed recently, have cogent concerns and do not appear to be wanting to keep bringing up these complaints over, and over. Thanks for the nice comment about my upcoming trip, I am really looking forward to it.

 

I do believe some who complain are working against their own best interest. As someone recently pointed out, many of the complaints are pretty outlandish and walk the line of being petty. I shake my head whenever someone says that the food in Oceanview/MDR/Tuscan... was inedible. If I were in customer service and someone hit me with that complaint I would realize there was really no way to please them. If those complaining were truly trying to impact leadership within RCI/Celebrity they might do so with a more rational approach. They also might realize that it is doubtful RCI/Celebrity leadership peruse these boards. Do they use social media as a tool to gauge satisfaction? I am sure they do (at least we do where I work). However, it is but one communication avenue and I wouldn't oversell importance.

 

I have had meals on both Celebrity and RCCL that were inedible. Really, totally inedible. Even my husband who eats almost anything had to send entrees back because he could not eat them. So it happens.

[Pavovsky]

Pavovsky, I do appreciate what you have to say because you have sailed recently, have cogent concerns and do not appear to be wanting to keep bringing up these complaints over, and over. Thanks for the nice comment about my upcoming trip, I am really looking forward to it.

 

 

 

I do believe some who complain are working against their own best interest. As someone recently pointed out, many of the complaints are pretty outlandish and walk the line of being petty. I shake my head whenever someone says that the food in Oceanview/MDR/Tuscan... was inedible. If I were in customer service and someone hit me with that complaint I would realize there was really no way to please them. If those complaining were truly trying to impact leadership within RCI/Celebrity they might do so with a more rational approach. They also might realize that it is doubtful RCI/Celebrity leadership peruse these boards. Do they use social media as a tool to gauge satisfaction? I am sure they do (at least we do where I work). However, it is but one communication avenue and I wouldn't oversell importance.

 

 

To me there was a very sharp dis improvement in the food in the buffet restaurant. I was impressed last year how good it was. Breakfast and lunch and the one dinner I had. This time it was not appealing. Except the curries.

 

Do the review here matter to Celebrity? Well they market the performances on these reviews where up to now they have been considered one of the best of the large cruise lines at sea. I have used those reviews to decide on Celebrity over other lines. I am sure others do the same. When considering reviews I usually disregard the most negative and also those who are overly positive. I have posted what I see as a balanced review which is fairly scathing on the overall mark but tries to give a subjective view of my experience. My wife would have been far harsher on certain issues. Others on the same ship will have had a great time I am sure. Others less so.

 

But if each review is honest people can decide whether something is for them or not. Reflection 2015 was for us even with some things not going right. Equinox 2016 definitely wasn't. We had great times at the ports but the on board experience was less than fulfilling.

[Pavovsky]

Just as an aside and before I had given any information my parents went to a travel agent last week intending on booking Celebrity for their first cruise. This was based on my and my brother's past experiences. The travel agent said that they would no longer recommend Celebrity.

[Mynki]

The travel agent said that they would no longer recommend Celebrity.

 

My first thought would be, are other lines offering the TA better commissions or similar?

 

Never in a million years would I base a decision on anything a TA had to say without a lot more research.