Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[phoenix_dream]

Where did you travel? Was it a TA...Caribbean? None issue on our Millennium cruise to Alaska...

 

Embarrassing question if you were also on our roll calls, but what date did you cruise? We did the 5/12 and 5/20 and had quite a few problems with drink service in the Rendezvous especially, and sometimes in Cosmos. One day we went 50 minutes in Rendezvous sitting there trying to catch the servers eye. Some people got fed up and left, others went up to the bar to order themselves. We are not normally complainers by nature, but this was so bad we brought it to the manager's attention. Our theory in doing that is that they cannot fix what they do not know is broken. It got somewhat better after that, but never to the level it should be. It was not the fault of the staff - they were running around like crazy trying to keep up with everyone. IMHO Celebrity has definitely cut too much staff in this area (or perhaps some of the staff did not show up for the sailings as planned - these were the first after the refurbishment)

[keithm]

We started cruising in our mid 30s and chose Royal Caribbean because we were afraid that we would be bored. After trying a variety of their ships, we decided to try something new and went with Celebrity in 2011 (mostly because we prefer to cruise out of San Juan).

 

There were things we liked more about Royal Caribbean (the production shows, the onboard activities, friendlier, more relaxed crew) and things we liked more about Celebrity (higher quality of food, live music, more and higher quality events for loyalty club members).

 

We realize that service etc. can vary from ship to ship and sailing to sailing, but we have noticed a change in Celebrity's quality in the last few years. I have no idea if the cuts are because of the almost always included drink package or not but the cuts are noticeable.

 

On our first cruise, musicians included a pianist, a guitarist, a classical ensemble, a harpist, and an acapella group (as well as the regular lounge groups- band, Latin band, pool band). Since we didn't love the entertainment in the theater (personal preference), we would enjoy several of the musicians in various areas of the ship before and after dinner. It was a port intensive cruise with an active roll call so we didn't do many activities.

 

We thought the meals were much higher quality than those on Royal though the variety of sides were sometimes a little monotonous. The desserts were especially amazing- crepes, wonderful French pastries, etc. Things that were hard to find at home except in specialty shops or fine dining establishments. I loved the idea of a sommelier, though the reality was disappointing. As soon as he found out that I was interested in wines by the glass and not the bottle, he told me that the bar waiter could deal with me. Thankfully we had an excellent bar waiter, so I didn't miss the sommelier a bit. We didn't have a drink package on the first cruise because it was relatively new and wasn't an included perk.

 

We were amazed by the loyalty events- a wonderful selection of drinks and a grand buffet of treats, including crepes to order. Everything was very posh and it was lovely getting to know many of the officers.

 

We saw very few sales (we avoid the shopping area), and the only time we saw a big push for the spa was a lovely activity they set up around the adult pool with free mini massages, facials, etc. There wasn't even a hard sell.

 

On our next celebrity cruise in 2014, the 1-2-3 promotion was in full force but I noticed very few changes. We cruised with a large group in Anytime Dining and had amazing service from everyone, including a great sommelier. They didn't seem to have many tables and, as I have noticed, we got great attention because we were a table for 10. We did notice that the menus had become a little more pedestrian, especially the desserts. Our waiter surprised us a few times with old favorites, like the souffle.

 

At the bars, we never had trouble getting a seat or a drink. I was amazed at how well they handled the number of people with drink packages. The only place that I found to be really swamped was Cafe al Bacio.

 

We didn't go to many of the loyalty events because many of our friends were new cruisers.

 

We had a big group and a port intensive cruise, so again we didn't do many of the activities. I remember very few sales, but we avoided the shopping area.

 

We still enjoyed the musical acts and moved around the ship to listen to them. We spent a lot of time at the aft bar, both at sunset and in the evening, though smaller groups also spent time in the coffee bar at night, the martini bar before dinner, and in Michael's Club when it still had the variety of beer (though we found the room a little dark and depressing).

 

Forward to our last cruise, this past February. Same ship as last time, just two of us.

 

The food was good and the menus were basically the same from the last time though I thought the presentation was a little better. The dessert selection had been greatly reduced. Our waiter wanted so hard to please but he was rushed off his feet with so many tables! Our sommelier was the best yet but I hardly every saw him- he had 19 tables!!!! 19!!!! He also did the smoothies in the aqua spa cafe in the morning! But for the first time, the smoothies were good! There were times that he was almost running though that was difficult since the tables were so close together. We were at a lovely 2-top back by the aft windows but the next 2 top was 4 inches from ours (I measured). It was difficult to not feel like we were at the same table.

 

Service at the buffet had greatly improved. More things were served by the staff (I'm all for keeping noro away) and I liked the selection of food except for dessert (one day it was just pies, another day it was just cookies).

 

The bars were crowded and the number of staff greatly depleted. They did increase the number of bartenders at the aft bar, which was great because it was busy all the time. The martini bar still only had 3 (I don't think they could fit more) and it was very difficult to get a seat, though they were very quick to take our order. Since the craft beer moved to the wine bar, so did we. The number of people here really varied and it was often understaffed. We often went only to find one poor woman working alone. She couldn't do table service and people were complaining. We just went up and got our own drinks (I'm not bothered). Later in the cruise, they often had 1-2 people come help her before dinner. No drink service around the adult pool area and the lines were long at the pool bars. Fortunately, we often came up after people left for early dinner so not horrible but not like it was before. One place that service improved was the coffee bar- they always had one table-server and 3 baristas and they needed it! This was a working vacation for me (I know, oxymoron) and I worked here most days (yay, new fast internet!).

 

Most of the music was gone. There was a guitarist and a pianist who played only at the aft bar (guitarist) or coffee bar (both). There was also a Latin band and a pool band, and at the end a very good new group joined us. There was a DJ and while I liked the music she played (she read her audience and adjusted genres as needed), it was loud and really changed the atmosphere of the martini bar- we spent less time here than we did in the past, sometimes grabbing a drink "to go."

 

With the lack of music, we did more activities. As far as I could tell, it was a staff of three. The CD (who handled the theater), the Activities Director, and his assistant. They had to run from game to game at night, which was crazy. I enjoyed the trivia and liked that they are doing more "game shows," which were something that I really enjoyed on Royal. Many of the activities were in the bar just outside the MDR. This meant that this bar was PACKED all night. The staff of 3-4 were worked off their feet. All of them said that the drink package was killing them- they were making way more drinks and way less tips. One of the bartenders also worked in the coffee bar AND the buffet. I had never seen this before. They are really stretching the staff thin.

 

The biggest change was the sales- they were everywhere! Outside the buffet, on the pool deck. I rarely went by the shops and yet I saw stuff for sale everywhere. It was often by doorways and really disrupted the flow of people. There were tons of spa attendants and they were by the buffet, offering free 3-minute massages. While I enjoyed this, they were really pushing certain services, with discounts if you booked them by name. They had spa menus with the services circled and their names written out for you. Is the spa pushing them to make a certain number of "sales"?

 

We only went to one event and the selection of drinks was still quite nice but the food offerings were nowhere near the same. Just a few passed nibbles, not really worth eating.

 

Have I noticed changes? Yes. Some for the better and some for the worse (mostly staff cutbacks). I love the drink package (I do think I get my money's worth) but I wish that Celebrity could figure out how to make the profits they want without cutting staff. We didn't find grumpy staff but after getting to know them, they would admit how much more they are working than a few years ago and service suffers simply from the lack of people in each position.

 

None of this is going to make us stop cruising with Celebrity but we are hearing good things from friends and family who have switched to other lines and we are thinking about branching out. For as many new people that they are bringing in, I wonder how many loyal cruisers they are loosing?

Unfortunately, the "sidewalk" sales help grow the bottom line. Yes, a lot of pax buy(us included)This helps to keep the overall price of the cruise lower. Cut backs are unfortunate, but there's shareholders to please.

[Hlitner]

Well said, Digital-Curator. We suspect that Madame Lisa....even if she follows this thread, will ignore most of what has been said. The cut-backs are sad and too obvious. We are cruising over 80 days (could be over 100 depending on some last minute deals) of which only 14 days are on X. Two or 3 years ago we probably would have spent at least 50 days on X this year....but the cut backs we experienced on the Eclipse, last Dec, caused us to reevaluate our plans and take most of our cruise days elsewhere.

 

We have our fingers crossed that our next X cruise (Eclipse in Nov) will show us the Celebrity we used to know and love. If not....well, there are plenty of other ships in the sea (we have cruised on 14 lines).

 

Hank

[bagelme]

The Solstice is my favourite ship and is truly an exceptional ship, it excels in it's service as well.

 

Mine, too, Mic...as our Hawaii cruise was my first on Celebrity. However, my second one on Equinox was very good, too! Have two more on Celebrity coming up over the next eight months. I hope I never feel like I'm seeing a downturn in the experience!

Pat

 

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[jbuch02]

Almost exactly my experience on Summit last week that you encountered, digital-curator, with a few exceptions. I also share your view of your personal Celebrity Experience over the years. Very much the same as mine.

 

I posted a detailed review of the Summit/Bermuda trip from last week here:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2366713

 

I was not aware of spa staff pushing product. They were around but didn't force themselves on me nor did I feel compelled to hear them out if I chose to say hello and say not interested.

 

I think this sort of hard sell thing is ship specific and depends on the Canyon Ranch Spa Manager.

 

I was also not aware of any hard sell from the shops. Plenty of literature circulating and info on sales and such but never felt pushed. I also think this is ship specific and, if I'm not mistaken, just like the spa/Canyon Ranch, the shops are contracted out.

 

Regardless, I wouldn't think badly enough about this if I did encounter it. There are plenty of ways to simply avoid it.

[saltydoge]

I thought this as well after my December 2014 cruise on the Reflection. Lots of promotions in the daily schedule, with even the cruise director announcing more sales than activities every day. What I noticed as well on that sailing was that the passengers were terribly obnoxious. I think all those negatives just fed off one another.

 

Contrast that to my sailing on the Summit in December 2015. Incredible crew with the best attitude and great working relationships with one another. The other passengers were a delight as well. I noticed there was a lot less emphasis on up-selling everything too, which didn't make the vacation feel as "cheap" as it did on Reflection.

 

I share in your frustration of your trip, though would encourage you to give it another try. I do wish it were a more "consistent" product though.

 

Our Third Celebrity cruise (on Eclipse) was a disappointment. We had viewed this line as providing upscale fun. On this cruise

 

-- over half of the activities on the daily schedule were something happening in one of the boutiques or shops. And those activities/sales did not even happen as or when advertised many times

 

--The live entertainment we had enjoyed at cocktail hour/sail away was not on the schedule most days. Some scheduled entertainment was cancelled to allow the foyer to be used for a selling/auction event.

 

--The majority of the passengers had beverage packages, which Celebrity seems to have paid for by cutting staff. If you enjoyed attentive, personal service from bar staff in the past--forget it--they had their heads down slinging drinks--no time to smile or talk or to mix a very good cocktail--Passengers asking for nuts or chips to accompany drinks at the bars were told that these were not available.

 

-Sommeliers no longer talk to passengers in the MDR--they were running around with four half full bottles of wine in their hands, filling glasses

 

--We concluded that the big increase in Beverage package passengers has changed the Celebrity experience into something like an extended "Booze cruise "--they appear to have chosen to cut a lot of the luxury and fun service items , figuring that customers won't mind as long as booze is free??

 

Doesn't work for us--we are very disappointed.

[chamima]

I also noticed the replacement of real activities with sales events on our last cruise on the Eclipse in February.

For a couple of days I kept count from the "Today" and it was (if I remember correctly) about 2 sales events (disguised as talks or information events) to every regular activity.

 

We made our own fun and, mostly because of all the friends on board, had a good cruise.(Far from great - just good)

We'll try again this February but if things keep going in this direction will definitely reconsider future cruises.

Edited June 13, 2016 by chamima

[keithm]

Well said, Digital-Curator. We suspect that Madame Lisa....even if she follows this thread, will ignore most of what has been said. The cut-backs are sad and too obvious. We are cruising over 80 days (could be over 100 depending on some last minute deals) of which only 14 days are on X. Two or 3 years ago we probably would have spent at least 50 days on X this year....but the cut backs we experienced on the Eclipse, last Dec, caused us to reevaluate our plans and take most of our cruise days elsewhere.

 

We have our fingers crossed that our next X cruise (Eclipse in Nov) will show us the Celebrity we used to know and love. If not....well, there are plenty of other ships in the sea (we have cruised on 14 lines).

 

Hank

We did the Eclipse twice(their 14 day Caribbean trips)Both were excellent in our opinion. I've heard the entertainment has really gotten bad. We loved the shows on the Eclipse in the past. We'll just have to wait for our Jan.22 trip & see if it's still as enjoyable than our first 2(either way still beats moving snow around for 2 weeks! We did a 14 day B2B on the Regal Princess this past Feb. It was nice, but we still preferred Celebrity overall.

[jbuch02]

...... We did a 14 day B2B on the Regal Princess this past Feb. It was nice, but we still preferred Celebrity overall.

 

....... and that's the thing. Celebrity, despite the change in the Celebrity experience over the last decade, continues to so some things right to the point that they maintain some level of market edge and if I have it right, that is statistically demonstrable.

 

I picked up a copy of National Geographic Traveler while I was waiting for my wife to finish up. I noted it was a March 2010 edition. Thumbing through it, there was an article bemoaning the way the cruise industry had shifted from revenue generation from cabin bookings to revenue generation from sales of beverages, spa treatments, boutique items, specialty dining, various entertainment venues, on and on. This was 2010!!!

 

As someone else posted here, "there are the share holders ......."

 

I think that pretty much sums up what is driving the changes we are seeing in the cruise industry in general and in Celebrity in particular. What stands out to me is that if the numbers regarding Celebrity's market share are correct, they are doing a pretty good job of managing the changes.

 

While there's a downside to the GBB (formerly 1,2,3, Go) promotions, most notably the drink package, it was Celebrity that introduced this perk and it has obviously been successful from a profit generating perspective and after all ......

 

"there are the share holders."

[grandgeezer]

....... and that's the thing. Celebrity, despite the change in the Celebrity experience over the last decade, continues to so some things right to the point that they maintain some level of market edge and if I have it right, that is statistically demonstrable.

 

I picked up a copy of National Geographic Traveler while I was waiting for my wife to finish up. I noted it was a March 2010 edition. Thumbing through it, there was an article bemoaning the way the cruise industry had shifted from revenue generation from cabin bookings to revenue generation from sales of beverages, spa treatments, boutique items, specialty dining, various entertainment venues, on and on. This was 2010!!!

 

As someone else posted here, "there are the share holders ......."

 

I think that pretty much sums up what is driving the changes we are seeing in the cruise industry in general and in Celebrity in particular. What stands out to me is that if the numbers regarding Celebrity's market share are correct, they are doing a pretty good job of managing the changes.

 

While there's a downside to the GBB (formerly 1,2,3, Go) promotions, most notably the drink package, it was Celebrity that introduced this perk and it has obviously been successful from a profit generating perspective and after all ......

 

"there are the share holders."

 

The biggest reason of the record profits is the drink package. The profits is just a pice of the puzzle of the drinks package. An equal benefit is it artificially inflates the satisfaction of the cruise. Drinking alcohol lowers you inhabitions which makes the food taste better, the service better, the entertainment better and probably other things. Take away the drinks and they are run of the mill like everybody else. The product has to sell itself then. Look at RCL, they don't have a free drink package yet they are able to keep their price up and their ships sail full.

[chamima]

We did the Eclipse twice(their 14 day Caribbean trips)Both were excellent in our opinion. I've heard the entertainment has really gotten bad. We loved the shows on the Eclipse in the past. It's not just the shows - it's the amount and variety of all the entertainment in the evening. We'll just have to wait for our Jan.22 trip & see if it's still as enjoyable than our first 2(either way still beats moving snow around for 2 weeks! We did a 14 day B2B on the Regal Princess this past Feb. It was nice, but we still preferred Celebrity overall.

 

 

 

You do realize you're comparing the vibe of a 7 day cruise to that of a 14 day.

Apples to oranges.

 

I read your reviews at the time and refrained from commenting then but probably should have.

As Princess only does a few true 14 day cruises the only close comparison might be a 10 day.

Most winters lately we've done a 14 day Eclipse cruise connected to a 10 day Princess. So far we are not noticing any cutbacks on Princess like those we're experiencing on Celebrity.

The variety of evening entertainment on Princess is 3 times that of Celebrity.

There are still things that are better on each line (and, as you said, it's MUCH better than what's at home in February) but if Celebrity continues in the direction it's been going those 28 or so days will be spent totally on Princess.

[aquanaut1]

Respectfully, I am not surprised at all. In fact I am more surprised at the statement you made.

 

I know very many UK cruisers who will NOT sail from SOTON on any cruise which has a 'free' drinks package.

 

A reality check please - it is acknowledged by the medical profession that UK has an issue with alcohol.

 

I am sorry Vancojo your vacation was impacted. I cruise Celebrity but NEVER from SOTON.

 

Annie

 

 

 

 

 

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[aquanaut1]

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Hi there , we are UK residents , sailing on Celebrity , out of Southampton in August ..... Firstly I would like to point out that there is only a tiny percentage of " Brits abroad " who have a problem with alcohol consumption , and yes , it embarrasses us greatly when we see things in the media making out the entire Island to be a bunch of louts and alcoholics . However .... most of us are nice upstanding travellers who , yes , appreciate the fine wines and cocktails aboard , but not to excess .

We are a middle age family with young children who firstly and foremost ly adore cruising . We booked this year and were given a drinks package for the first time , we didn't really want it , but accepted it as we had no option. It will no doubt make me stray from my three regular cocktail choices and try something new , but that's about it . We will no doubt purchase fine wines in the restaurants as this is our annual holiday .

Please do not tar all British people with the same brush .

 

 

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Edited July 11, 2016 by aquanaut1

[swigso]

The lack of evening entertainment was our biggest complaint on our Eclipse cruise last February.

As I'm reading these comments I wonder if it's a ship specific problem.

What a shame to short-change the people who are booking the longer cruises (at least in the winter). :(

 

I find that the entertainment doesn't really appeal or the lack of bother me.

We work very hard and have busy lives 14 nights on the Eclipse is such a joy, we spend time together laugh, Talk, Have fun, enjoy the Ship and really find it perfect for us.

We have never had an issue with service can always get a drink at any bar usually quicker than when at home and the drink package is a godsend saves me a fortune, I just love to spend quality time with the person I

Love, the warm weather and sunshine is a very special added bonus, plus to be honest having sailed Celebrity since 2002 (and tried and sailed other lines)

To us Celebrity is just so good why try another line, my brother is at pains to get us to go over to seabourn but we don't think it would be a good fit,

We are happy where we are

[swigso]

Respectfully, I am not surprised at all. In fact I am more surprised at the statement you made.

 

I know very many UK cruisers who will NOT sail from SOTON on any cruise which has a 'free' drinks package.

 

A reality check please - it is acknowledged by the medical profession that UK has an issue with alcohol.

 

I am sorry Vancojo your vacation was impacted. I cruise Celebrity but NEVER from SOTON.

 

Annie

Totally agree I would never sail on any ship with free alcohol from a British port

[aquanaut1]

Totally agree I would never sail on any ship with free alcohol from a British port

 

 

Unbelievable

 

 

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[voldemortuslore]

Unbelievable

 

 

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Its actually quite sensible, there is no way I would ever sail again on a ship with free alcohol out of a UK port. Ive sailed with RCL from Soton twice, and the first one was fine, a week to norway in may. Second time was a two week to spain/the med, absolute hell, full of the typical chavtastic families, the captain even had to appeal for calm with all the kids running around the ship.

 

Im British, and I would never travel from the UK again (unless it was with one of the upmarket lines).

[aquanaut1]

Its actually quite sensible, there is no way I would ever sail again on a ship with free alcohol out of a UK port. Ive sailed with RCL from Soton twice, and the first one was fine, a week to norway in may. Second time was a two week to spain/the med, absolute hell, full of the typical chavtastic families, the captain even had to appeal for calm with all the kids running around the ship.

 

 

 

Im British, and I would never travel from the UK again (unless it was with one of the upmarket lines).

 

With regard to RCCL , we are switching back to X because there are too many kids on board ex Southampton, esp in the holidays .

Last trip was its.isn med 1300 kids on board , adventure ocean couldn't cope. My kids didn't go too much as too busy , but the rest of the trip was great busy but fine . Service was good , not too many Chavfamilies as you say . It didn't stop us having a fab holiday , we didn't see hardly any drunkenness, but then we don't frequent the bars after ten !

 

We are switching back to X for less children , better food and a great trip to the fjords !!! So I'm praying they deliver .

 

If you want to see drunkenness at its best may I suggest Carnival out of Miami !!! It makes me cringe when you see British tourists wearing their football shirts , but hey .... That's life

 

 

 

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[norwegianwood57]

Yes lets keep Celebrity as kid free as possible. I get flamed every time I say this. Yet I still say it. Good to see someone who was on Royal Carib, which has all kinds of stuff for kids, say that there are too many kids so they have returned to Celeb. Hope they dont bring their kids with them.

[aquanaut1]

Yes lets keep Celebrity as kid free as possible. I get flamed every time I say this. Yet I still say it. Good to see someone who was on Royal Carib, which has all kinds of stuff for kids, say that there are too many kids so they have returned to Celeb. Hope they dont bring their kids with them.

 

 

Sadly for you We are bringing our two fairly well behaved children . Both under 11 in August , thankfully our kids have a vivid imagination they don't need gimmicks to have a good time , there's a pool - they swim , sports courts - they play .... We were all kids once , it's a shame some cruisers forget that .

We will take them on excursions with us , we shall all go kayaking , go hiking up the sides of waterfalls , visit smelly fish markets as a family , my six year old son will scoff snails in the restaurant , my daughter will devour more profiteroles than ishumanly possible for a scrawny ten year old to do, we will all have fun !!! As should you .

 

 

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[duchesslt]

When people start complaining about children on cruises, I often wonder why they don't then just vacation in quiet all adult resorts.

 

I'm taking my 15 and 13 year old on Solstice and will be polite enough to keep them away from the adults only areas such as Solarium and Martini Bar. Other than that, I'm paying full adult fare for them and they offer children and teen programs to encourage families!

 

Anyway, if i expect peace and seclusion - I wouldn't pick a 2k-4k passenger boat in general. I would definitely be thinking St. Barts or if boating is part of the interest - Windstar type cruises.

[norwegianwood57]

My response was to your comment that you no longer want to be on royal carib since there are so many children. But you want me to put up with yours. How very hypocritical of you. So now you want to bring all your children onto Celebrity Ships and make them as bad as royal carib. What a plan!

[cheeseheads4ever]

We also had a totally different experience on Connie. We really never had to wait hardly at all for a drink, anywhere, pool, martini bar, sunset bar. I mean most of the time it took a minute or so to get a bartender but I'm not the only one ordering so I have patience. By the pool I seen waiters walking by asking if you wanted a drink. It must be the ship. The martini bar on Connie had the best most efficient and entertaining bartenders I've seen.

We are going on Equinox in November so will see how that ship is....

[The_Big_M]

My response was to your comment that you no longer want to be on royal carib since there are so many children. But you want me to put up with yours. How very hypocritical of you.

 

How is it hypocritical to have a limit? People may like chocolate; that doesn't mean they want copious quantities of it. People may like ice cream, but that doesn't mean they want that and nothing else.

 

And just because you like children, you may want a different balance as well.

 

So now you want to bring all your children onto Celebrity Ships and make them as bad as royal carib. What a plan!

 

Celebrity has always allowed children on board. You'd be delusional to expect Celebrity not to have children given that they cater and market for them, including having children's facilities on board.

 

You need to choose another line if you have a problem with children on board.

[aquanaut1]

How is it hypocritical to have a limit? People may like chocolate; that doesn't mean they want copious quantities of it. People may like ice cream, but that doesn't mean they want that and nothing else.

 

 

 

And just because you like children, you may want a different balance as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Celebrity has always allowed children on board. You'd be delusional to expect Celebrity not to have children given that they cater and market for them, including having children's facilities on board.

 

 

 

You need to choose another line if you have a problem with children on board.

 

 

Thank you

 

 

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