Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[richstowe]

We just got off the Infinty a week ago and had a totally different experience. We found Celebrity just as good as ever in our experience (we are Elite cruisers). I asked the Hotel Manager about reduced staff and he said not true. He said staffing levels have remained constant "for years."

 

So no, we don't think Celebrity is going down market. It's just that you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I have also been told that total staffing levels are more or less constant but A) the mix has changed to increase revenue producing staff at the expense of non revenue producers B) new ships or ships that have added extra cabins have a lower staff to customer ratio . (This is not specific to Celebrity .) Interestingly crew accommodations are usually the limiting factor .

 

So I believe the Hotel Manager was previously a lawyer . ;) What he said was not untrue but ...

Edited May 29, 2016 by richstowe

[hypercafe]

We just came back from the Summit. It was fine, I liked it better when the ship was new before they added all those cabins and extra restaurants. They had flower arranging classes in what is now Quesinar. That said it was OK. They have turned into a two class ship and the extra staff tending to first class comes from second as there are only so many crew cabins. I wonder what people expect. I had a Aqua cabin for 3k. We got drinks, special coffee, shakes, RT transport to Bermuda, unlimited food 18 hours a day, entertainment, taxes and port fees and 300 OBC from X. Yes, I liked it a lot better ten years ago but it still seems a good value to me. Try going to Bermuda on a land vacation and see.

[RDC1]

I have also been told that total staffing levels are more or less constant but A) the mix has changed to increase revenue producing staff at the expense of non revenue producers B) new ships or ships that have added extra cabins have a lower staff to customer ratio . (This is not specific to Celebrity .) Interestingly crew accommodations are usually the limiting factor .

 

So I believe the Hotel Manager was previously a lawyer . ;) What he said was not untrue but ...

 

The room for crew on the ship is fixed. One of the reasons they reduced the size of the cruise directors staff, was to accommodate the additional headcount for the spa when they changed to Canyons.

[MicCanberra]

Some great points made by some people and I must admit that some of them I agree with are across the board and others I think may be personal experience or ship dependent rather than being across the whole fleet. My recent experiences of cruising with X (3 this year on Solstice and Constellation) have not shown any downturn for my cruise experience. I have found plenty of activities that are free and have not diminished in quantity or quality, however there are more marketing/selling activities on board, which to me is an indication that there are separate departments trying to meet quotas and/ or separate companies (contractors) such as the photo mob or spa mob trying to turn a profit.

[ECCruise]

I asked the Hotel Manager about reduced staff and he said not true. He said staffing levels have remained constant "for years."

 

.

 

Simply NOT true. Ask any steward. Ask any server. Ask any waiter.

 

Don't ask the boss, who's job is to spin the truth. We'd rather go to the source.

 

They had to make room for all the marketing people who annoyed us every single night on Millennium when we left the theater, hawking overpriced watches and other trinkets. If I was still an automotive dealer, I would hire them, since they reminded me of my very best salespersons.

[MicCanberra]

Simply NOT true. Ask any steward. Ask any server. Ask any waiter.

 

Don't ask the boss, who's job is to spin the truth. We'd rather go to the source.

 

They had to make room for all the marketing people who annoyed us every single night on Millennium when we left the theater, hawking overpriced watches and other trinkets. If I was still an automotive dealer, I would hire them, since they reminded me of my very best salespersons.

 

Inch of Gold, ra, ra, ra.

[ghstudio]

The room for crew on the ship is fixed. One of the reasons they reduced the size of the cruise directors staff, was to accommodate the additional headcount for the spa when they changed to Canyons.

 

Oh...do you really believe that spin? The cut was to reduce celebrity payroll and the plan was to get the franchises to backfill the activities which is what we now have. Nothing to do with the canyon spa...

[El Crucero]

Simply NOT true. Ask any steward. Ask any server. Ask any waiter.

 

Don't ask the boss, who's job is to spin the truth. We'd rather go to the source.

 

Oh I did! I asked my head room steward how many rooms he and his assistant are responsible for today. He said 20, but 5 or 6 years ago he and his assistant were responsible for 22 to 23. He said his work load has been decreased so that he can spend more time cleaning each stateroom daily. I asked him if his pay had been reduced as a result and he said no, in fact his pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year for the last several years.

 

I also asked servers and waiters and I get similar stories from them. They tell me that Celebrity is one of the better cruise lines to work for and they are happy at Celebrity.

 

Now, you tell me what "proof" you have.

[kitty9]

Proof is that there used to be wine stewards who had 10 to 12 tables to serve, and now there are four, total, for the entire dining room, including the Select area. Our butler, who we've been friends with for 10 years, told us that cabin stewards can have as many as 20 to 22 cabins to do, when they used to have as little as 10 and as many as 16. There used to be 6 waiters in the Celebrity Theater at night, and we've seen 4 recently. In the past, you had problems finding help in the various shops on board because there were few workers, now, those shops are overrun with staff, so much so that if you sit in the World Bar on the S class ships, they are all standing outside the shops trying to get people inside. In Murano, another crew member that we've been friends with for many years, has bemoaned the fact that her staff has been reduced and her people are overworked-----plus, if you've been cruising on Celebrity as long as we have, you'd know that table side preparation of the menu items have been greatly reduced, for both cost cutting reasons and due to staff cuts.

 

Unless one has been cruising Celebrity for as long as many of us here have, it's difficult to realize all the reductions and downgrading that's been going on.

Edited May 30, 2016 by kitty9

[El Crucero]

-----plus, if you've been cruising on Celebrity as long as we have, you'd know that table side preparation of the menu items have been greatly reduced, for both cost cutting reasons and due to staff cuts.

 

Actually no, table side preparation has been essentially eliminated because of revised US health standards as a result of communicable diseases like Norovirus that have become a problem on cruise ships. I encourage you to check it out like I did, before jumping to conclusions.

 

There is good information on CC as well as bad.

[ChucktownSteve]

Actually no, table side preparation has been essentially eliminated because of revised US health standards as a result of communicable diseases like Norovirus that have become a problem on cruise ships. I encourage you to check it out like I did, before jumping to conclusions.

 

There is good information on CC as well as bad.

 

Please excuse my ignorance, however how does the staff person preparing the dinner table side contribute more to norovirus than the same staff member preparing the dinner in the kitchen? Can you please supply a link to what proof you're referring?

Edited May 30, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[El Crucero]

Please excuse my ignorance, however how does the staff person preparing the dinner table side contribute more to norovirus than the same staff member preparing the dinner in the kitchen? Can you please supply a link to what proof you're referring?

 

Sure, no sneeze guards on table side prepared items, prepared on carpet rather than tile, hair nets/hats in the kitchen, etc. Don't blame Celebrity or any other cruise line, blame US health regulations that are trying to protect you.

[ChucktownSteve]

Sure, no sneeze guards on table side prepared items, prepared on carpet rather than tile, hair nets/hats in the kitchen, etc. Don't blame Celebrity or any other cruise line, blame US health regulations that are trying to protect you.

 

No offense but based upon your generic response, I'm not buying your premise. It may relate to CA but where's the proof you claim to have researched as it relates to Celebrity? Where did you research your conclusion? It's not like Celebrity needs an A rating from the Miami department of health to post on their ship's window.

Edited May 30, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[xmarksx]

Compliments to posters for the excellent analysis - very informative read.

 

Have cruised with Celebrity since 2001. Ended cruising with Celebrity 2015. Have cruised all other mass lines over the years on a fairly regular basis - never was exclusive to Celebrity.

 

Celebrity has moved "down market" indeed despite the focus on suite class. Up to about 2012, Celebrity clearly was the "premium" cruise line in the mass market segment. There was a real difference that you enjoyed. I remember in the past being asked by other cruise line passengers what it was like to be on Celebrity and they had a bit of awe in their voice.

 

Other cruise lines have stepped up the pace - so the historical gap between Celebrity and the others has closed. Celebrity is about the same as the Princess and HA experience, albeit different.

 

The end of doing business with Celebrity was last Feb on the Infinity South America - when real cream for coffee was replaced with a vile edible oil creamer on the room service trays. The end of Celebrity being "premium" we foresaw in 2014 when the former real lemon curd tarts with amazing pastry and a square piece of chocolate available at Cafe B, were replaced with mass produced tart shells and lemon pie filling. Even earlier, in Sept 2013, on the Solstice, when I last was able to get the amazing little sandwiches and a cold chardonnay at Cafe B while waiting for the 1 pm call for room readiness. That was a spectacular experience.

 

The lemon tart and the sandwiches were "modern luxury" and appropriate for a "premium" line. Not available any more.

 

In the end, all cruise lines and airlines for that matter, have gone downmarket. To acquire the previous level of standards requires a huge increase in cost. Some people pay it and others like our household will not pay it and no longer travel. Our funds are reassigned to other market segments that provide us better value.

 

Some people are very observant about the downgrade of former product offerings and they make choices to end patronage of such companies. Other consumers do not care they are paying more for less. To each their own.

 

Safe and happy travels to all.

 

ABoatNerd

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=45624940#post45624940

 

And the repetition continues.

[The_Big_M]

Sure, no sneeze guards on table side prepared items, prepared on carpet rather than tile, hair nets/hats in the kitchen, etc. Don't blame Celebrity or any other cruise line, blame US health regulations that are trying to protect you.

 

Aside from the tile/carpet aspect, that hasn't caused the buffet to be shut down, which has the same issues when they go to noro containment mode and staff do the serving. I'm also sceptical that this would be a reason to prevent it in MDR.

[MicCanberra]

OMG, it is all so terrible I may never cruise X again.:eek:

 

Seriously, if it gets to the stage where I am not happy with the overall experience, then that will happen, until then X is still a very good product for me and shines way ahead of the other lines I have cruised.:D

[Redtravel]

Each time I cruise, I am amazed at the changes. Some changes are little. Some are major. My first cruise 1986 on the Home Line was elegant and expensive. Everyone dressed up every night. No cabins had verandas. Windows were small port holes. I had a assigned deck chair with my name on it near the pool. Waiters with white gloves brought tea and cake at 4 every afternoon. We stayed up late enjoying the fabulous midnight buffets. Great entertainment with excellent dance bands. Every dinner had a theme with waiters dressed the part. No buffet. You ate all your meals at the same table. Nobody had any OBC or beverage package. Drinks were very cheap. Cabin stewards made up the cabin during breakfast and dinner. Ship had a fully stocked library with new books. Chocolate mints were delicious. Room service was prompt. Tips were extended at the end of the cruise. No guidelines.

My last cruise on Summit was relaxing and relatively inexpensive. Nobody dressed up. Most cabins had verandas and window walls. I could sit anywhere on deck. Breakfast and lunch are available in the MDR or buffet. Also, spa food is offered. Coffee bar makes nice drinks. Tea is in the Buffet. Not many dancers.drinks were expensive. Library had a very small book selection. No midnight buffet or any other grand display of food. i had OBC. Tipping is added as a set amount. While you can opt out, most people just pay what is posted to their onboard account. Price is lower in today"s money.

So which is better? There is good and bad. I like the freedom to sit where I want. I like to decide when and where to eat breakfast and lunch. Miss the Midnight buffet and dance bands. I love not dressing up for dinner. Prefer sitting on the upper decks instead of my veranda. I like to see both sides as we sail. I would prefer doimg away with posting gratuities. When I tipped at the end of a cruise, I gave bigger tips to those who deserved them.

Both styles of cruising go with the times. As time changes, cruise limes will be changing too. Happy cruising then and now.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Redtravel
Not finished

[wales4ever]

Totally agree with the original post. More people with "free" drinks packages means they now have less bar staff and drinks waiters - as confirmed to me by a bar manager on the Summit when we waited and waited and waited for a drink. Loud music silly games in lounges where there used to be live music. Lack of MDR roof staff. Lack of good food. ETC ETC ETC

[villauk]

Oh I did! I asked my head room steward how many rooms he and his assistant are responsible for today. He said 20, but 5 or 6 years ago he and his assistant were responsible for 22 to 23. He said his work load has been decreased so that he can spend more time cleaning each stateroom daily. I asked him if his pay had been reduced as a result and he said no, in fact his pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year for the last several years.

 

I also asked servers and waiters and I get similar stories from them. They tell me that Celebrity is one of the better cruise lines to work for and they are happy at Celebrity.

 

Now, you tell me what "proof" you have.

 

The Activities Staff were definitely cut a couple of years ago. It was highlighted many times on CC and confirmed by many staff onboard ;). Justification (from an officer): X are targeting the younger, more affluent guest that doesn't want entertainment but to sit, relax and use their own IT equipment to pass time ;).

[MicCanberra]

The Activities Staff were definitely cut a couple of years ago. It was highlighted many times on CC and confirmed by many staff onboard ;). Justification (from an officer): X are targeting the younger, more affluent guest that doesn't want entertainment but to sit, relax and use their own IT equipment to pass time ;).

 

Well the new internet service will certainly help there at least.:D

[villauk]

Well the new internet service will certainly help there at least.:D

 

Yes, it certainly supports the statement.

[ECCruise]

Oh I did! I asked my head room steward how many rooms he and his assistant are responsible for today. He said 20, but 5 or 6 years ago he and his assistant were responsible for 22 to 23. He said his work load has been decreased so that he can spend more time cleaning each stateroom daily. I asked him if his pay had been reduced as a result and he said no, in fact his pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year for the last several years.

 

I also asked servers and waiters and I get similar stories from them. They tell me that Celebrity is one of the better cruise lines to work for and they are happy at Celebrity.

 

Now, you tell me what "proof" you have.

 

Well, lets start with that you have only been sailing Celebrity since 2012 and we have been with them 14 years longer than than. We've sailed the line over 300 days during that time and know for a fact that "5 or 6 years ago" they did not have "22 or 23 rooms." We were there. The average steward team at that time had around 15 rooms. And this nonsense about their "pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year"? Please enlighten us about how much their pay (not gratuities) is "from Celebrity" that has increased each year.

[richstowe]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=45624940#post45624940

 

And the repetition continues.

I'm sure every statement you've ever uttered or posted is entirely fresh , original and brilliant . Congratulations !

[Cruise Junky]

Maybe I'm their target demographic as we're happier with them now than we were on our first sailing in 2005.

[El Crucero]

Well, lets start with that you have only been sailing Celebrity since 2012 and we have been with them 14 years longer than than. We've sailed the line over 300 days during that time and know for a fact that "5 or 6 years ago" they did not have "22 or 23 rooms." We were there. The average steward team at that time had around 15 rooms. And this nonsense about their "pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year"? Please enlighten us about how much their pay (not gratuities) is "from Celebrity" that has increased each year.

 

I am reporting what was told to me by room steward two weeks ago.

 

Obviously, you are so unhappy with Celebrity you are cruising on another line now. Which one would that be?