Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[grandgeezer]

You are spot on.

 

This Baby Boomer will be cruising for at least 20 more years. That's probably somewhere around $300,000.00 in sales from DW and me. I don't think Celebrity wants to lose my business.

 

I don't think they want to lose the older crowd either. These are the people that cruise alot and help keep their ships full, or close to it. Eliminate them and the big cruise ships will be parked along the Queen Mary, in Long Beach, turned into hotels.

The cruise lines have to find away to grow their business, just not replace the older crowd with the baby boomers. With all the new ships being added, and few older ships retired, that's the only way they can survive and thrive.

[wallie5446]

Good for you. I would do the same thing if I felt that Celebrity regressed to a point that I could not live with. But it seems there are long time Celebrity cruisers here that just keep finding fault, yet continue to sail Celebrity, instead of taking their cruise dollars elsewhere.

 

Rich :)

 

All 7 of the lines we have sailed since 1987 have changed, heck, 2 of them are out of business. We too feel that for todays dollar, the overall on ship product delivered by Celebrity is still the best value for the style of cruising we like to do.

EW

[Baron Barracuda]

Vividly remember our 1st cruise, Zenith back in '93. White gloved a/w's carrying dw's tray from buffet to table. Hw's cooking crepes and cherries jubilee at tableside. Midnight buffets every night topped by the grand buffet. Terribly wasteful, but truly elegant. Still have the invoice, over $200/pp/night in an oceanview (Zenith didn't have balconies). My two subsequent sailings from way back then on Century and Millenium were also over $200/pp/night, plus alcohol and grats.

 

Twenty three years later just off Eclipse with all three 123 percs in cc cabin for $175/pp/night including port charges. Not as elegant but still very enjoyable.

 

Like all businesses X had to decide how to grow profits in the face of rising costs. They could have raised prices and maintained quality or held the line on pricing and reduced costs. While I would have personally preferred that they had gone the former route, obviously they have chosen the latter. But if all the other lines are doing it as well, as Royal and Princess certainly are, can you really consider them to be moving down market?

[jbuch02]

Great discussion ..... continues to be informative. Newbies should not be discouraged. Most posting in this thread have a lot of cruising under their belts and the different perspectives from this experienced crowd is great.

 

I found the comments of the poster who has been taking their business to Oceania interesting. We've cruised Oceania twice both times on Riviera - a fantastic ship, crew and food. Cabins (a balcony) were elegant and spacious by a few more square feet, especially the bathrooms. Dining options, food and beverages were tops. On balance, considering perks, the cost per person per day for comparable OV cabin classes is around $240 compared to $170 aboard Celebrity. These are approximate price points for comparable cruise accommodations. Your calculations may vary but the point is, you are going to pay a bit more for a cruise on Oceania Riviera than you are on Celebrity Silhouette, for example. Whether the extra money is worth it is a highly personal decision.

 

I think those willing to pay the price for suite living on either line are going to find Oceania a little better. OK, having said that, it is worth noting that Oceania is owned by Carnival Corporation and if I remember my numbers correctly while Carnival holds a 42% market share, Oceania holds only 3% of that number. Carnival is targeting a niche market at a higher price point with Oceania. Celebrity within the RCL community of cruise lines holds a much larger market share (about 22% of RCL's overall cruise market share of 30 something %) than Oceania does among its fellow cruise lines. One can argue that Celebrity, within its family of RCL owned cruise lines, is not only competitive compared to the industry but is also delivering a product that seems to be in demand.

 

My point is that this goes to Lutoff-Perlo's (and RCL's) marketing strategy that some here don't like. Celebrity is selling at a lower price point and have done things to get there that have caused some legitimate griping. I'm fine with what they've done. I see a good deal of out with the old and in with the new thinking. The older you get the less you like change. My 40 year old son tells me, "Dad, deal with it. Change and accommodation of it will keep your brain healthy." I'll be the first to agree though with the notion that what pleases us may not please others. Judging the product and experience is truly a subjective undertaking.

 

In defending Celebrity, I'm stuck on the notion that, all things considered, cruisers are still getting a very good product at a very competitive price. It's a value thing for me. Fine line for corporate to walk though. In a similar discussion at Cruise Critic forums about targeting a particular demographic, I noted that the over 55 demographic holds some astounding amount of disposable income (I forgot the exact number but it was something like 70+%) and are spending it on travel and leisure. IOW, if Celebrity pisses off this demographic to the point that people who can afford it will pay extra for an Oceania cruise, they'll not only loose that particular demographic but other value cruisers in that age group who might follow or at least start looking around. Brand loyalty is very hard to maintain. We have three cruises planned over the next 9 months. Two of them are with Celebrity (Summit and Constellation because I still love the M class ships) and one with, gasp, Carnival Vista.

[Texed]

OK, having said that, it is worth noting that Oceania is owned by Carnival Corporation.

 

Are you sure about that? :)

[jbuch02]

Are you sure about that? :)

 

Sorry ...... NCL is the primary, not Carnival. While NCL is the third largest conglomerate behind Carnival and RCL, it occupies a relatively tiny market share compared to the other two and Oceania a very small portion of NCL's but the point is the same ..... NCL is targeting a niche market with that brand.

 

Thanks

[MicCanberra]

Some great comments and opinions. Very interesting, seeing discussion form long term cruisers but only some X and the long term X cruisers vs the relatively new cruisers.

 

Personally, I don't care if they are trying to make more money, as long as they deliver the type of cruise experience I want for the current pricing or less, I will remain happy.

Edited May 27, 2016 by MicCanberra

[R&M1000]

On the Eclipse in March - terrible bar service. We tried several places to meet at 5:30 - 6:00 for drinks before dinner - almost impossible to get served. I like the Apple-tini. Being Elite Plus we tried the Sky lounge. It was open to everyone, not just an Elite lounge anymore.

 

On the Summit last month. The Elite social gathering was open on two nights to Select as well, making it impossible to get a seat let alone a drink. When asked why Select were able to attend, we were told "we thought they'd enjoy it." Really.

[Flamencacha]

On the Summit last month. The Elite social gathering was open on two nights to Select as well, making it impossible to get a seat let alone a drink. When asked why Select were able to attend, we were told "we thought they'd enjoy it." Really.

 

 

 

The Captains Club on Celebrity has been a great hit. It's like frequent flyer miles. You stick with one company to get more points.

 

As you reach each tier you receive a status, or a freebie. The most likely reason, is to encourage the now select passengers to continue sailing with X.

 

It's all marketing.

Sorry you didn't enjoy your Elite social,

 

I will probably be close to 90 before I become elite. I travel alone, Celebrity rarely has a single supplement sale. I pay for two. I don't eat or drink for two.

 

Maybe next time they will stick to the rules.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChucktownSteve]

I found the comments of the poster who has been taking their business to Oceania interesting. We've cruised Oceania twice both times on Riviera - a fantastic ship, crew and food.

 

Oceania is owned by Carnival Corporation and if I remember my numbers correctly while Carnival holds a 42% market share, Oceania holds only 3% of that number. Carnival is targeting a niche market at a higher price point with Oceania. Celebrity within the RCL community of cruise lines holds a much larger market share (about 22% of RCL's overall cruise market share of 30 something %) than Oceania does among its fellow cruise lines. One can argue that Celebrity, within its family of RCL owned cruise lines, is not only competitive compared to the industry but is also delivering a product that seems to be in demand.

 

I agree with your statements about the quality of Oceania's cabin, food and crew. However you can't compare Celebrity to Oceania which was not long ago bought by NCL as you pointed out in a subsequent post.

 

If you want to do a true comparison you have to look at RCL's Azamara vs. NCL's Oceania.

Edited May 27, 2016 by ChucktownSteve

[Redtravel]

I thought it might only be me. I was on the Summit in January 2016. Cruise was nice. After my recent Summit cruise ( May 1,2016), I was not thrilled. We had our stay in Bermuda cut by one day due to an impending storm. Storm warning was lifted. We had left Bermuda and had a nice sea day. While sea days can be nice. It doesn't compare to being in Bermuda. On the ship, there were many changes. Elite cocktail event had poor service and no hot food. Elite breakfast had a buffet instead of the table service. Longer lines in the buffet. Fewer chaises in the solarium. Pool grill servers often were very slow. Fewer waiters circulating offering drinks. We didn't have a drink package. It seems that many people are getting the package and are drinking too much. There were many drunk people. It was the booze cruise. Smaller portions in the MDR. Shrimp cocktail served in a small bowl with 3 small shrimp. Cafe Al Bacio had a beverage station where you added and capped take away drinks. Cafe Al Bacio had fewer servers. In general, there seems to be fewer staff. When I had a problem in the MDR , I was told that "This is the new Celebrity. we have our rules." Attitude? While most of the staff was very polite, there were some that seemed to be angry. I met guests that were saying that said they had better time on other cruises. I left the cruise wondering if the new Celebrity was for me. I have a booked cruise for January that I booked 2 years ago. Seriously thinking about it.

[CruisingChick]

I thought it might only be me. I was on the Summit in January 2016. Cruise was nice. After my recent Summit cruise ( May 1,2016), I was not thrilled. We had our stay in Bermuda cut by one day due to an impending storm. Storm warning was lifted. We had left Bermuda and had a nice sea day. While sea days can be nice. It doesn't compare to being in Bermuda. On the ship, there were many changes. Elite cocktail event had poor service and no hot food. Elite breakfast had a buffet instead of the table service. Longer lines in the buffet. Fewer chaises in the solarium. Pool grill servers often were very slow. Fewer waiters circulating offering drinks. We didn't have a drink package. It seems that many people are getting the package and are drinking too much. There were many drunk people. It was the booze cruise. Smaller portions in the MDR. Shrimp cocktail served in a small bowl with 3 small shrimp. Cafe Al Bacio had a beverage station where you added and capped take away drinks. Cafe Al Bacio had fewer servers. In general, there seems to be fewer staff. When I had a problem in the MDR , I was told that "This is the new Celebrity. we have our rules." Attitude? While most of the staff was very polite, there were some that seemed to be angry. I met guests that were saying that said they had better time on other cruises. I left the cruise wondering if the new Celebrity was for me. I have a booked cruise for January that I booked 2 years ago. Seriously thinking about it.

 

We are boarding on Sunday. Hoping for a better experience.

 

I have to say we liked the Elite breakfast better when it was originally a buffet and did not like when they changed to just bring out those pre-made plates.

 

We will test it out and see if it's any better. Also we will not have a drink package and we have never had one.

 

Thanks for sharing and posting your thoughts.

[Can'tstopcruising]

We are boarding on Sunday. Hoping for a better experience.

 

I have to say we liked the Elite breakfast better when it was originally a buffet and did not like when they changed to just bring out those pre-made plates.

 

We will test it out and see if it's any better. Also we will not have a drink package and we have never had one.

 

Thanks for sharing and posting your thoughts.

 

 

I vote for the elite buffet also. I much prefer to choose what I wish to eat!

[Flamencacha]

I vote for the elite buffet also. I much prefer to choose what I wish to eat!

 

 

 

I like the vegetable frittata en the MDR for breakfast.

 

All in all she is a nice cruise line

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[xmarksx]

I thought it might only be me. I was on the Summit in January 2016. Cruise was nice. After my recent Summit cruise ( May 1,2016), I was not thrilled. We had our stay in Bermuda cut by one day due to an impending storm. Storm warning was lifted. We had left Bermuda and had a nice sea day. While sea days can be nice. It doesn't compare to being in Bermuda. On the ship, there were many changes. Elite cocktail event had poor service and no hot food. Elite breakfast had a buffet instead of the table service. Longer lines in the buffet. Fewer chaises in the solarium. Pool grill servers often were very slow. Fewer waiters circulating offering drinks. We didn't have a drink package. It seems that many people are getting the package and are drinking too much. There were many drunk people. It was the booze cruise. Smaller portions in the MDR. Shrimp cocktail served in a small bowl with 3 small shrimp. Cafe Al Bacio had a beverage station where you added and capped take away drinks. Cafe Al Bacio had fewer servers. In general, there seems to be fewer staff. When I had a problem in the MDR , I was told that "This is the new Celebrity. we have our rules." Attitude? While most of the staff was very polite, there were some that seemed to be angry. I met guests that were saying that said they had better time on other cruises. I left the cruise wondering if the new Celebrity was for me. I have a booked cruise for January that I booked 2 years ago. Seriously thinking about it.

 

I will admit that I am not a seasoned cruiser and have less than two years experience with Celebrity but I don't understand some of the concerns you express. For example, you express concern over smaller portions but everyone acknowledges that two of a specific item may always be ordered. Certainly don't understand the concern over a self-serve beverage station at Al Bacio, I like it! As for the fewer loungers? I cannot see how they could pack more loungers in that space.

 

I recognize perception is reality and yours differs from mine. My pushback is that I spent a great amount of time trying to find a way to cruise with one of the high-tier lines for our upcoming Med trip. I even tried to see if I could match with a shorter Caribbean cruise. When I did the cost benefit analysis I couldn't beat Celebrity, by a significant margin. I mention this because I would like to hear your findings if you choose to cancel the January trip and rebook with another product/line. In my opinion the only way to overcome the value presented by Celebrity is by placing more emphasis on intangibles like type of passenger, smaller environment, refined service. Perfectly understandable if that is what is important.

 

Celebrity and RCI are not changing their business model, no way. Run a search on RCI for their last quarter profits.

[Redtravel]

The solarium on the Summit has been redone recently. New chaises, chairs, tables, and benches. There are chaises only around the indoor pool deck (16) and chaises only on one side of the floor. The opposite side has only tables, chairs and few benches. It also has lots of empty floor space. The new furniture looks nice. However, it is not nearly as comfortable as the old furniture. Modern Luxury?

 

Buffet in the elite breakfast is nice. The toaster person is a welcome change. It just isn't as elegant as when it was served at the table. Covering up the windows in the Tuscan Grill is sad. Modern Luxury?

 

We have been to Bermuda many times. 6 times by ship and countless times flying in and staying at a hotel. It is still one of the most beautiful places. To those cruising in this summer, enjoy!

[hypercafe]

I was on the May 1st trip also. We got there a day early and left a day early, even so I was refunded the port charge for one day. I paid 3k for a Aqua room for two. Got free drinks and 300$ OBC. We are Elite, got some free internet and laundry along with the cocktail time at night ect. Food and service in Blu was nice, pool deck crowded, shows very nice. For the price a great vacation. I paid twice the price on Oceania and three times on Crystal and Hapag-Lloyd and it was not that much times better.

[mickeysgal]

Our Third Celebrity cruise (on Eclipse) was a disappointment. We had viewed this line as providing upscale fun. On this cruise

 

-- over half of the activities on the daily schedule were something happening in one of the boutiques or shops. And those activities/sales did not even happen as or when advertised many times

 

--The live entertainment we had enjoyed at cocktail hour/sail away was not on the schedule most days. Some scheduled entertainment was cancelled to allow the foyer to be used for a selling/auction event.

 

--The majority of the passengers had beverage packages, which Celebrity seems to have paid for by cutting staff. If you enjoyed attentive, personal service from bar staff in the past--forget it--they had their heads down slinging drinks--no time to smile or talk or to mix a very good cocktail--Passengers asking for nuts or chips to accompany drinks at the bars were told that these were not available.

 

-Sommeliers no longer talk to passengers in the MDR--they were running around with four half full bottles of wine in their hands, filling glasses

 

--We concluded that the big increase in Beverage package passengers has changed the Celebrity experience into something like an extended "Booze cruise "--they appear to have chosen to cut a lot of the luxury and fun service items , figuring that customers won't mind as long as booze is free??

 

Doesn't work for us--we are very disappointed.

 

I've been on a booze cruise...no way is Celebrity even coming close to that. Even with these drink packages.

[villauk]

Our Third Celebrity cruise (on Eclipse) was a disappointment. We had viewed this line as providing upscale fun. On this cruise

 

-- over half of the activities on the daily schedule were something happening in one of the boutiques or shops. And those activities/sales did not even happen as or when advertised many times

 

--The live entertainment we had enjoyed at cocktail hour/sail away was not on the schedule most days. Some scheduled entertainment was cancelled to allow the foyer to be used for a selling/auction event.

 

--The majority of the passengers had beverage packages, which Celebrity seems to have paid for by cutting staff. If you enjoyed attentive, personal service from bar staff in the past--forget it--they had their heads down slinging drinks--no time to smile or talk or to mix a very good cocktail--Passengers asking for nuts or chips to accompany drinks at the bars were told that these were not available.

 

-Sommeliers no longer talk to passengers in the MDR--they were running around with four half full bottles of wine in their hands, filling glasses

 

--We concluded that the big increase in Beverage package passengers has changed the Celebrity experience into something like an extended "Booze cruise "--they appear to have chosen to cut a lot of the luxury and fun service items , figuring that customers won't mind as long as booze is free??

 

Doesn't work for us--we are very disappointed.

 

Reading your post, it seems like it's more about the cut in activities staff onboard that has impacted your cruise rather than the actual beverage packages. Most of the things you mention are related to the lack of free activities and entertainment/musicians that used to appear on X ships. This reduction in alternative activities has then resulted in pax spending much more time drinking their 'free' packages, and has consequently led to a different atmosphere than your previous cruise experiences on Celebrity.

 

I'm a little shocked with your reference to a 'booze cruise' as usually this happens on the Med cruises out of Southampton, rather than the Northern European routes (one reason why we never sail from Southampton to the Med ;)). I do have to agree on the lack of free activities since the staff have been cut to the bare minimum. There used to be far more interaction and music, but this is what happens when the staff are stretched and it's more about generating extra income from ridiculous 'sales' in the shops onboard. The actual free events have diminished to virtually zero in the daily planner - unless of course you want to attend the one-off, never to be repeated :D, sales event of the year at the various retail outlets :rolleyes:.

[ChucktownSteve]

Reading your post, it seems like it's more about the cut in activities staff onboard that has impacted your cruise rather than the actual beverage packages. Most of the things you mention are related to the lack of free activities and entertainment/musicians that used to appear on X ships. This reduction in alternative activities has then resulted in pax spending much more time drinking their 'free' packages, and has consequently led to a different atmosphere than your previous cruise experiences on Celebrity.

 

I'm a little shocked with your reference to a 'booze cruise' as usually this happens on the Med cruises out of Southampton, rather than the Northern European routes (one reason why we never sail from Southampton to the Med ;)). I do have to agree on the lack of free activities since the staff have been cut to the bare minimum. There used to be far more interaction and music, but this is what happens when the staff are stretched and it's more about generating extra income from ridiculous 'sales' in the shops onboard. The actual free events have diminished to virtually zero in the daily planner - unless of course you want to attend the one-off, never to be repeated :D, sales event of the year at the various retail outlets :rolleyes:.

 

I concur with your analysis. Good points.

[jbuch02]

...... I spent a great amount of time trying to find a way to cruise with one of the high-tier lines for our upcoming Med trip. I even tried to see if I could match with a shorter Caribbean cruise. When I did the cost benefit analysis I couldn't beat Celebrity, by a significant margin. .......Celebrity and RCI are not changing their business model, no way. Run a search on RCI for their last quarter profits.

 

This.

 

If your goal is to optimize your available cruising dollars and overall cruise experience Celebrity is hard to beat.

 

Most of you will recall that on your post cruise survey emailed to you by Celebrity, one of the questions is why did you pick Celebrity. One of the selections is price (among recommendations from others, itinerary, etc.).

 

I'd like to know how many respondents select this answer. I suspect it is quite a few and I think that drives RCL's/Celebrity's pricing strategy for all their cabins except suites. The market segment paying for a suite is probably not going to be as price sensitive as the market segment looking at less costly options.

 

I've done comparison shopping just like this poster has, over and over again. What I've found interesting is that when you break down the value of perks that are offered by Celebrity on a per person, per day basis, for comparable accommodations and comparable itineraries, what one finds is that the traditional view that Carnival and NCL are less costly than Celebrity is not accurate.

 

OK, so what you have, in my case as a Celebrity Loyalists, is that the price differential for trying another line is insufficient to get me to do that. I have sailed other lines (NCL, Carnival, Disney, Oceania, MSC) but there were other factors involved in doing so. At this point in my cruising life I want to cruise as often as possible and that means price, in terms of my perception of the value of the cruise experience and that is going to differ among cruisers, is a major factor for me.

 

The realty is that Celebrity is tough to beat in the cruise market place all things considered.

[Hlitner]

The last poster mentions "price" and we now see problems with X pricing due to large increases over the past couple of years. While we continue to cruise on Celebrity, the number of Celebrity days vs our total cruise days per year (usually 70-100) is quickly shrinking. As an example, we just booked (yesterday) a 24 day HAL cruise (leaves in about 6 weeks) in the Baltic where our cost per passenger day is under $100 (for a nice balcony cabin). In fact, that 24 day HAL Baltic cruise will cost us less then our next 14 day Caribbean Celebrity cruise (we do our calculations on real cost per passenger day).

 

When we book our cruises, our decision is based on many factors including itinerary, price, ship, and finally cruise line. For us (having been on 14 cruise lines) the "cruise line" is one of the minor factors (the actual ship is more important since ships vary even within a single cruise line). If Celebrity expects me to pay twice as much as one their decent competitors, they have to be a lot better then their competitor. Since the change at the top of Celebrity (the era of "Lisa) we have noticed constant cut-backs coupled with large price increases. At this point, although we will likely cruise at least 100 days in 2017....we do not have a single Celebrity cruise booked. We will wait until our Nov...Eclipse cruise to see if X is again improving...or if they are continuing their downward plunge.

 

Hank

Edited May 28, 2016 by Hlitner

[vancojo]

I agree with your statements about the quality of Oceania's cabin, food and crew. However you can't compare Celebrity to Oceania which was not long ago bought by NCL as you pointed out in a subsequent post.

 

If you want to do a true comparison you have to look at RCL's Azamara vs. NCL's Oceania.

 

Of course you can compare Oceania (or whatever) to Celebrity. Azamara is positioned to be a direct competitor to Oceania in a segmented marketplace--but as a consumer you are smart to compare all options available--as other posters here have--many deciding for-- and some against Celebrity.

[hcat]

I've been on a booze cruise...no way is Celebrity even coming close to that. Even with these drink packages.

 

On our Connie cruise.we were having lunch in Tuscan which over looks the pool deck. Observed more than a few a few hearty partying groups...one obviously drunk guy climbed up on a lounget by the rail and was trying to dance..seas not flat...luckily his buddies pulled him back in tme as he lost his balance....to me those type of peolpe are booze cruisers!

[vancojo]

I started this thread and have appreciated the input from all involved.

 

I would like to clarify a couple of things:

 

-The cruise I was on was April 30 to May 8 of 2016 on the Eclipse. And yes there was much that I did enjoy--Ex. the ports, the floor shows and the excursions in Flam and Geiranger-I am not totally grumpy ;)

 

-I never intended to state that the cruisers embarking in Southhampton were rowdy partiers seeking drinks--I incited some response by using the term "booze" I guess. As one of the above posters correctly states it was the cutback in services and entertainment that really disappointed me--and the point I was trying to make is that when drink packages are supplied to the vast majority of the passengers , predictable behaviors will ensue. Celebrity not staffing for this behavior appears to be something others have noticed as well.

 

 

---

I think that the overall consensus of posters here is that Celebrity has reduced its efforts to provide activities and elegance and is trusting that supplying value through discounts and freebies will fill the cabins. Once customers are on board they are presented with numerous pressures to spend money--retail, gaming and upgrading to premium packages and specialty dining--Sadly, this last bit works best if the basic service is degraded (fewer drinks on the basic package, poorer service in the MDR).

 

If this strategy degrades the experience too greatly one might think that they will lose some loyal customers, like me, who previously chose Celebrity exclusively when planning a large ship experience, but now am backing off to consider options. Many posters emphasize that good value they see in Celebrity so I think they will continue to thrive with value shoppers, and I don't totally discount the possibility that I will return someday for the right itinerary and maybe if they start using a different discounting strategy. But I am now a sceptic, not a fan.