Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[jbuch02]

Fun reading ...... without the finger pointing/bickering, of course.

 

On reports by ship's crew (Room Attendants, Wait Staff, Bar Staff, even Managers - Restaurant, Bar or Hotel) : It is not likely you are going to get a detailed answer to questions like the ones reportedly posed in this thread.

 

There are reasons for that: (1) Managers are trained to spin. We've seen it over and over again ourselves and from reports from other's we cruise regularly with. It's not a bad thing, it is part of what they do to protect the brand. (2) The worker-bees are NEVER (that may be too strong a word because I suspect there are exceptions) going to say anything derogatory about their work experience, the line or their fellow workers. If word gets back to section managers that they did, they can lose their jobs.

 

I believe it's hard to get a true picture of what is a causal factor for something a particular passenger is unhappy with whatever that might be. In corporate's effort to protect the brand, I suspect that crew at all levels have guidelines when responding to passengers about a specific complaint ..... what to say, how it is going to be handled, etc. These kinds of practices are common place where the company is big enough to want to protect itself against bad press, bad reviews on social media or on internet forums. All of these are powerful voices today and it is hard to combat negative comments so, companies try to do this up front and when a complaint is first voiced.

 

I can't comment on specifics but I am personally aware of a passenger who complained about a serious breach of health standards to a staff who initially, it appeared, tried to conceal/downplay it, the passenger protected the evidence, raised it to the next level and was handsomely compensated and in the process signed a non-disclosure agreement. Also in this case, the passenger was informed, in general, about what steps were to be taken to correct the deficiency they complained about. It happens and I am not at all surprised about the arrangements Celebrity made. It is protecting the brand and I don't have a problem with that. It is what it is.

 

To that end, we have never lodged an onboard or post cruise complaint with Celebrity management where we felt they might be able or willing to do something about it. There is a reason for that. If you are unhappy with something, find the person who made you unhappy BEFORE talking to a supervisor, and give them an opportunity to correct the behavior that resulted in your unhappiness. Choose wisely. There is a difference between complaining, on the spot, about normal wear and tear on furniture or carpets and a cold meal or dirty bathroom on occupying your stateroom.

 

Moreover, there are ways to do this kind of thing correctly. Displaying anger or demeaning that person are not among them. Although I've only done this rarely, I've never had a situation where I felt the problem was not addressed or fixed at the lowest level. In fact, most Celebrity staff that are involved in directly serving you (e.g., table staff, bar staff, room attendants) will go out of their way to let you know if you have a problem please tell them about it and they will do their best to fix it.

 

My own view, after completing dozens of them, is that post cruise surveys serve one useful purpose - recognizing outstanding service and staff. You'll get nowhere with seeking redress of a significant problem you encountered in one of these. There are ways to do that and, if the problem is serious enough, like the one I mentioned above, supervisors/managers should be advise of it on the spot. I can almost guarantee you that it will be handled to your satisfaction (see above example).

Edited May 30, 2016 by jbuch02

[Texed]

Fun reading ...... without the finger pointing/bickering, of course..

 

buch,

 

You make some great points. Thanks for posting. :)

[richstowe]

Well, lets start with that you have only been sailing Celebrity since 2012 and we have been with them 14 years longer than than. We've sailed the line over 300 days during that time and know for a fact that "5 or 6 years ago" they did not have "22 or 23 rooms." We were there. The average steward team at that time had around 15 rooms. And this nonsense about their "pay from Celebrity has INCREASED each year"? Please enlighten us about how much their pay (not gratuities) is "from Celebrity" that has increased each year.

 

Not to quibble but why do you say ( not gratuities ). I fully realize that we the customer are almost entirely paying the salaries for cruise ship service employees . But as these gratuities continually increase , why do you not see this as their pay ? Would you not consider tips for a server part of their total pay ? Do you not believe they are getting paid their share of these charges ?

[ECCruise]

I am reporting what was told to me by room steward two weeks ago.

 

Obviously, you are so unhappy with Celebrity you are cruising on another line now. Which one would that be?

 

You couldn't be more wrong. I would hazard a guess that we have more days booked with Celebrity right now (50+) than most of the cheerleaders here. We are 100% itinerary driven, so if it is offered, and we can negotiate a good price, we are there.

 

Unhappy? No, or we wouldn't have all those days booked. Disappointed? Absolutely. It simply is not the same experience of even 5 or 6 years ago. Crowded MDRs, especially on M class, a noticeable decrease in food quality (although a bit more creative now, which we enjoy). Constant huckstering in every venue (shops/spa/bingo/excursions/specialty dining). Obsession with booze (drink packages/Martini bar/Molecular bar/World bar/Gastro pub). When half of the MDR menu is devoted to booze, you are in bush league territory, even if they couch it in snob cocktails.

 

So yes, we have a good bit of time booked on Celebrity, but, in a bit of a change, we have more days (around 100) booked on other lines. In the past, those numbers would likely have been reversed. It is just disappointing to compare what was (and what many here never experienced) with what is, and more importantly, what could have been. And I do understand the quest for the younger, more affluent cruiser being the reason for many of the changes. No problem. But you know what? Have noticed zero change in the demographics in the last couple years.

Edited May 30, 2016 by ECCruise

[ECCruise]

Not to quibble but why do you say ( not gratuities ). I fully realize that we the customer are almost entirely paying the salaries for cruise ship service employees . But as these gratuities continually increase , why do you not see this as their pay ? Would you not consider tips for a server part of their total pay ? Do you not believe they are getting paid their share of these charges ?

 

Simply because the poster said, "their pay from Celebrity has increased EVERY year". They are paid a monthly stipend from Celebrity (which wouldn't get a pax a meal in a specialty restaurant) but 90+% of their income--not "pay"--comes from you and I. And yes, I do believe that Celebrity is fair with the gratuity $$$. And they have increased that amount (as have all cruise lines in the last year or so) so of course the gratuity based crew is happy. But that dough is not coming from Celebrity.

[Northern Aurora]

Interesting reading this thread.

 

Our first Celebrity cruise was in 2008, and through the years it is clear to me that room stewards are indeed assigned more, not less, rooms to their sections. Activities staff also has been cut to about half of their former levels. Petty cuts, such as the elimination of daily delivery of bottled water to Aqua staterooms, have been made. And, after leaving the Eclipse after thirty-nights onboard, the amount of onboard selling/hawking has clearly increased.

[MicCanberra]

In regards to your cabins and the room stewards, has the standard dropped even if they have to do more now than they did before?

The reason I say this, is everyone I know in just about any industry has to do more now than they did 5 or 6 years ago. Why should the cruise industry be any different. I have not noticed any difference in my service while on board despite the steward having to possibly do more rooms.

[ECCruise]

In regards to your cabins and the room stewards, has the standard dropped even if they have to do more now than they did before?

The reason I say this, is everyone I know in just about any industry has to do more now than they did 5 or 6 years ago. Why should the cruise industry be any different. I have not noticed any difference in my service while on board despite the steward having to possibly do more rooms.

 

Service levels pretty much as before, maybe 95%.

 

Stewards more overworked but soldiering on. But have heard more say "last contract" than ever have before in almost 20 years of cruising.

 

And it is beyond absurd that people in the service industry are working more and more than they did before, when profits are up now 200%, 300% or more. Great for the upper crust, not so much for the rest. I believe that the upper management should reap the benefits of soaring profits (they actually believe that their efforts brought them there), but not at the expense of those that truly got them there.

[MicCanberra]

Service levels pretty much as before, maybe 95%.

 

Stewards more overworked but soldiering on. But have heard more say "last contract" than ever have before in almost 20 years of cruising.

 

And it is beyond absurd that people in the service industry are working more and more than they did before, when profits are up now 200%, 300% or more. Great for the upper crust, not so much for the rest. I believe that the upper management should reap the benefits of soaring profits (they actually believe that their efforts brought them there), but not at the expense of those that truly got them there.

 

I agree, the profits should be spread to all the employees but in practice and reality we all know what happens in most work places.

[VitaminSea1]

I agree, the profits should be spread to all the employees but in practice and reality we all know what happens in most work places.

 

 

Employees are not entitled to part of the profits ! Just like ANY job, employees are offered a wage for a described job. Some jobs come with perks and benefits, others don't. Unless you buy stock or become an owner you do not get part of the profits or a say in where those profits go. None of the cruise staff are indentured. They decide whether the job and wage work for them and are always free to work elsewhere just like employees in other industries

 

 

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[xmarksx]

I'm sure every statement you've ever uttered or posted is entirely fresh , original and brilliant . Congratulations !

 

Rich, your point is valid and I am absolutely certain I have contributed to some repetitive, droll and unenlightened commentary. My point, however, is that the poster has essentially repeated the same post since January 2015. It might appear that they have an agenda they are attempting to carry forward and I question the usefulness. Why peruse (feel free to use other terminology to describe it) the Celebrity board if only to complain about Celebrity? Especially when you have sworn off Celebrity and in one instance stated you have sworn off cruising.

[The_Big_M]

They decide whether the job and wage work for them and are always free to work elsewhere just like employees in other industries

 

As a service industry, shouldn't staff be happy to work there? Do people do their best work tired and stretched?

 

There's more to the equation than just paying the most meagre salary possible, while demanding more and more.

[chemmo]

Maybe I'm their target demographic as we're happier with them now than we were on our first sailing in 2005.

 

We have had our best cruises ever last two....We vary cruises with land based experiences both world wide and in our beautiful homeland...

 

Every time we get on a Celebrity Ship there is that wonderful knowledge that we are going to be well looked after.

 

For many years we happily cruised with RC. Then they changed a bit, the ships got bigger and more to the point we changed....We wanted less action and more relaxation. The shows and activities were less important the food became more important as our evening entertainment preference became quieter.....We do look at other lines but at present are unlikely to try them, why should we when we are enjoying Celebrity so much?

 

For those who genuinely feel that Celebrity is no longer offering what they want I really do suggest they try another cruise company or a different sort of holiday. Celebrity may have changed but perhaps what some guests now want has changed too and they need to do, as we did, and try alternatives. I am sure at some stage what we want out of a cruise will change again...Perhaps we will want smaller ships, included tours...but if we do swap it will probably again be because we have changed rather than X has significantly changed.

[MicCanberra]

Rich, your point is valid and I am absolutely certain I have contributed to some repetitive, droll and unenlightened commentary. My point, however, is that the poster has essentially repeated the same post since January 2015. It might appear that they have an agenda they are attempting to carry forward and I question the usefulness. Why peruse (feel free to use other terminology to describe it) the Celebrity board if only to complain about Celebrity? Especially when you have sworn off Celebrity and in one instance stated you have sworn off cruising.

 

Perhaps they are looking for support for their decision or conversely reasons to change their mind.:confused:

[villauk]

We have had our best cruises ever last two....We vary cruises with land based experiences both world wide and in our beautiful homeland...

 

Every time we get on a Celebrity Ship there is that wonderful knowledge that we are going to be well looked after.

 

Could it be because you cruise exclusively in suites and that's where X have contributed the most amount of money, time and effort over the last year? I'm not criticising this as your choice, but highlighting the fact that others may have seen more of a decline as they stay in the lower categories of accommodation.

 

As I said previously, I think the most notable change over the last few years has been the reduction in Activities Staff which has unfortunately led to the hawking of much unwanted 'tat'. We enjoyed the choice of live music which also appears to have diminished. Having said that, we currently still enjoy the Celebrity experience. When we don't, we'll move on (more likely when our teenage children move on :D) ;).

[Flamencacha]

Employees are not entitled to part of the profits ! Just like ANY job, employees are offered a wage for a described job. Some jobs come with perks and benefits, others don't. Unless you buy stock or become an owner you do not get part of the profits or a say in where those profits go. None of the cruise staff are indentured. They decide whether the job and wage work for them and are always free to work elsewhere just like employees in other industries

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

 

 

Obviously you have never been hungry.

Though I agree with the portion of profit sharing, they should pay a living wage. And tipping should be held to above and beyond normal.

 

I was 18 working for Ma Bell and after rent and utilities I lived off a loaf of bread a pack of ham a a chicken to make soup. Yes I was hungry.

 

IMO

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DYKWIA]

As a service industry, shouldn't staff be happy to work there? Do people do their best work tired and stretched?

 

There's more to the equation than just paying the most meagre salary possible, while demanding more and more.

 

I agree, but I think it applies to any work. All employers in any industry should try to create an environment where employees are treated with dignity, find their job rewarding and hopefully enjoyable.

Edited May 31, 2016 by DYKWIA

[chemmo]

Could it be because you cruise exclusively in suites and that's where X have contributed the most amount of money, time and effort over the last year? I'm not criticising this as your choice, but highlighting the fact that others may have seen more of a decline as they stay in the lower categories of accommodation.

 

As I said previously, I think the most notable change over the last few years has been the reduction in Activities Staff which has unfortunately led to the hawking of much unwanted 'tat'. We enjoyed the choice of live music which also appears to have diminished. Having said that, we currently still enjoy the Celebrity experience. When we don't, we'll move on (more likely when our teenage children move on :D) ;).

 

I think your point is valid...The Celebrity experience for us does include the 'suite life'. That is what suits us at this stage in our life. If we were not cruising in suites would we enjoy Celebrity as much? No, because if we did we wouldn't be paying for a suite?!? Hope that made sense.

 

I think the point I was trying to make is that people's needs and perceptions change over time. Not so long ago when our cruises were more about destinations the extra money spent on suites would have been wasted. I too remember the midnight buffets on ships, they were nice to see but I would never stay up for them now! I remember going to every show but last cruise we didn't do any....

 

We love the big ship experience but the extra bit of pampering the suite offers. In a few more years perhaps we will tire of 'big ships' but at present it suits us. I was just reflecting if some people who cruise Celebrity are sticking with a product that may no longer suit them. There may be changes to service (as you say entertainment staff) that are adversely affecting their cruise but also it could be that they are simply failing to actually sit down and reflect on what they want out of a vacation and if Celebrity continues to be the best option for them.

 

As with all things it can become too routine to just keep booking same, same, same...Not a problem if you are really enjoying but when the number of things you are not enjoying outweighs those that you are it is time to look at other options.

Edited May 31, 2016 by chemmo

[villauk]

I think your point is valid...The Celebrity experience for us does include the 'suite life'. That is what suits us at this stage in our life. If we were not cruising in suites would we enjoy Celebrity as much? No, because if we did we wouldn't be paying for a suite?!? Hope that made sense.

 

I think the point I was trying to make is that people's needs and perceptions change over time. Not so long ago when our cruises were more about destinations the extra money spent on suites would have been wasted. I too remember the midnight buffets on ships, they were nice to see but I would never stay up for them now! I remember going to every show but last cruise we didn't do any....

 

We love the big ship experience but the extra bit of pampering the suite offers. In a few more years perhaps we will tire of 'big ships' but at present it suits us. I was just reflecting if some people who cruise Celebrity are sticking with a product that may no longer suit them. There may be changes to service (as you say entertainment staff) that are adversely affecting their cruise but also it could be that they are simply failing to actually sit down and reflect on what they want out of a vacation and if Celebrity continues to be the best option for them.

 

Yes, I do think there comes a time when one needs to move on to a more suitable product. We, like yourselves, used to cruise more with Royal but then moved more towards X. We did try Princess, however, felt the experience was quite 'bland'. This doesn't mean we wouldn't try them again if the right itinerary came along.

 

At the present stage in our lives, we want to see as much as possible in this world and so we do gravitate towards the itinerary, it being at the top of our list of wants. Additionally, we always have to cruise in peak season which limits the variety of itineraries we are able to choose. In a few decades, once we have retired, our choice of dates and places will increase and then, more than likely, we will have another preferred line - who knows :).

[MicCanberra]

I have recently completed two cruises, one in a suite and one not. Both were great cruises although very different in where we socialised. That said, I am still very happy with the X cruise experience.:D

[Adammara]

We had many cruise on P&O, and as they increased their fleet, the service and enjoyment went down. We moved to Celebrity in 2009, and it was refreshing change, sadly the same has happened again, and a cruise on Connie was the worst we have had in 39 cruises.

 

We decided to take some time out from cruising, and only recently decided to try again. Now we loved the formal nights, and liked to see everybody dressed up, sadly this appears no longer be the case on Celebrity.

 

So its a trial cruise on Cunard for us in the autumn, just a 7 day cruise to see if it is a good as the hype, at least we won't miss any of their cuts, its 25 years since our last Cunard cruise on QE2! Interestingly, my TA told me that a lot of her customers switching from Celebrity to Cunard.

[El Crucero]

So its a trial cruise on Cunard for us in the autumn, just a 7 day cruise to see if it is a good as the hype, at least we won't miss any of their cuts, its 25 years since our last Cunard cruise on QE2! Interestingly, my TA told me that a lot of her customers switching from Celebrity to Cunard.

 

Please post a comparison of the two lines, once you have completed your cruise.

[NLH Arizona]

I have recently completed two cruises, one in a suite and one not. Both were great cruises although very different in where we socialised. That said, I am still very happy with the X cruise experience.:D

I don't cruise in a suite and have been very satisfied. My January cruise was excellent, just as every other one of my Celebrity cruises. I actually thought the MDR food was better than my previous cruise and I thought the crew was excellent, they always had a smile and a kind word every time I went by.

[jbuch02]

.......... my TA told me that a lot of her customers switching from Celebrity to Cunard.

 

I have also heard this along with Oceania. First post to raise Cunard comparisons. We've heard a little bit about Celebrity v. Oceania, HAL, Carnival, less about NCL.

 

We'll do a Cunard TA at some point and am looking forward to giving it a try. Their motto is, "Advancing Civilization since 1840." Huge ocean going tradition with the goal of preserving it. Would like to hear some comparisons regarding the Cunard "experience" as we have discussed it here from those that have sailed this line.

 

I have no experience with Cunard, owned by Carnival, HQ in UK, targeted at a more affluent cruiser, so am reluctant to comment but I have heard these things: Much more formal with no intent to change/adapt to the mainstream market. Cunard is happy with who they are. A definite division of cruising classes, not entirely like Cunard's famous ships before 1934 and the Golden Age of cruising, but nonetheless present and palpable.

 

On checking, I've found this pricing under these criteria, Region: TA, Time: April, 2017 to June 2017, Length 14n, Cabin: Balcony.

 

HAL: $114 per person/d (no perks)

CEL: $114 per person/d (no perks)

CUN: $229 w/perks per person/d ($300 OBC - $21/d, grats @ $11.50/d)

OCE: $150 w/perks per person/d ($1000 OBC - $71/d)

 

Note that Cunard's suite life approach (two levels Queens and Princess Grill) are not in this pricing. These are comparable Balcony accommodations to try and keep this an apples to apples comparison.

 

I also used comparable OBCs for CUN and OCE although free beverage packages were offered on both lines. OCE bundles their web site pricing with R/T air - this pricing does not include that. As well, Cunard's TAs are really not that. Their crossings are regularly scheduled and not discounted as heavily as HAL and CEL do and it appears OCE does as well.

[villauk]

I have also heard this along with Oceania. First post to raise Cunard comparisons. We've heard a little bit about Celebrity v. Oceania, HAL, Carnival, less about NCL.

 

We'll do a Cunard TA at some point and am looking forward to giving it a try. Their motto is, "Advancing Civilization since 1840." Huge ocean going tradition with the goal of preserving it. Would like to hear some comparisons regarding the Cunard "experience" as we have discussed it here from those that have sailed this line.

 

I have no experience with Cunard, owned by Carnival, HQ in UK, targeted at a more affluent cruiser, so am reluctant to comment but I have heard these things: Much more formal with no intent to change/adapt to the mainstream market. Cunard is happy with who they are. A definite division of cruising classes, not entirely like Cunard's famous ships before 1934 and the Golden Age of cruising, but nonetheless present and palpable.

 

On checking, I've found this pricing under these criteria, Region: TA, Time: April, 2017 to June 2017, Length 14n, Cabin: Balcony.

 

HAL: $114 per person/d (no perks)

CEL: $114 per person/d (no perks)

CUN: $229 w/perks per person/d ($300 OBC - $21/d, grats @ $11.50/d)

OCE: $150 w/perks per person/d ($1000 OBC - $71/d)

 

Note that Cunard's suite life approach (two levels Queens and Princess Grill) are not in this pricing. These are comparable Balcony accommodations to try and keep this an apples to apples comparison.

 

I also used comparable OBCs for CUN and OCE although free beverage packages were offered on both lines. OCE bundles their web site pricing with R/T air - this pricing does not include that. As well, Cunard's TAs are really not that. Their crossings are regularly scheduled and not discounted as heavily as HAL and CEL do and it appears OCE does as well.

 

Here you go http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2353542&highlight=cunard

A very recent comparison of the two lines ;).