Celebrity Moving Down Market??

[iandjm]

I am also baffled by the comment, It seems that every week there is a post where someone is complaining about the slow internet on ship. So RCCL bumps up the speed on both lines to make em happy. Now we have the comment that because of the internet available it is time for someone to stop cruising! Totally baffling.

 

 

I guess people just like to moan all the time. Personally I don't care in the slightest what others do on a cruise as long as it does Ito effect me in any way [emoji3]

[richstowe]

Personally I think the drinks package is here to stay. Many passengers don't drink enough to make it pay however celebrity have the money. I suspect maybe 10-15% drink way over the cost however the majority done go anywhere near the cost. A money maker for Celebrity I think.

You make a good point in suspecting only a very small % of customers "win" in this competition with X actually losing money on them . However many , like me, come out ahead due to the amount of coffees , waters and other non-alcohol drinks we consume . No Celebrity doesn't lose on us but even so we come out ahead .

 

Returning to the thread topic , does this lead to heavy drinkers stumbling aboard their ships in greater numbers ? Not sure but if I drank like a fish I'd certainly cruise Celebrity .

 

I know 2 couples who cruise HAL because they like to smoke on their balcony and HAL is their only option . You could argue these are 2 very different things . Maybe . :confused: It makes sense to purchase products and services from those who satisfy your needs .

Edited June 3, 2016 by richstowe

[tercar]

You make a good point in suspecting only a very small % of customers "win" in this competition with X actually losing money on them . However many , like me, come out ahead due to the amount of coffees , waters and other non-alcohol drinks we consume . No Celebrity doesn't lose on us but even so we come out ahead .

 

Returning to the thread topic , does this lead to heavy drinkers stumbling aboard their ships in greater numbers ? Not sure but if I drank like a fish I'd certainly cruise Celebrity .

 

I know 2 couples who cruise HAL because they like to smoke on their balcony and HAL is their only option . You could argue these are 2 very different things . Maybe . :confused: It makes sense to purchase products and services from those who satisfy your needs .

 

 

I agree with some of your points, however I have heard on so so many occasions the little quote " I would never buy this many coffees, cocktails etc if I didn't have the package" and when you take into consideration how overly inflated the prices are believe you me Celebrity have a deal breaker with the packages. If it was not so I am ssure they would have gone back to the old system by now

[The_Big_M]

Personally I think the drinks package is here to stay. Many passengers don't drink enough to make it pay however celebrity have the money. I suspect maybe 10-15% drink way over the cost however the majority done go anywhere near the cost. A money maker for Celebrity I think.

 

The only reason it was introduced. And given its popularity, no reason to go back.

[ISABELLA]

Because some of us need a good internet connection to stay in touch with our children and elderly, ill parents.

 

But go ahead and paint with that broad negative brush.

 

Once again - you are missing my point. My comment has nothing to do with speedy internet. Maybe best go back a few pages and read it again..

Edited June 3, 2016 by ISABELLA

[chamima]

Once again - you are missing my point. My comment has nothing to do with speedy internet. Maybe best go back a few pages and read it again..

 

Several of us pointed out that the intent of your post was misinterpreted.

People continued to stick with the misinterpretation so I just gave up.

[ChucktownSteve]

The only reason it was introduced. And given its popularity, no reason to go back.

 

Well that and the fact that they actually rolled the cost of the drink package into the increased charge for the cruise.

[ISABELLA]

Well that and the fact that they actually rolled the cost of the drink package into the increased charge for the cruise.

 

Correct - even if I don't drink, I am paying higher price.

Edited June 3, 2016 by ISABELLA

[MicCanberra]

You make a good point in suspecting only a very small % of customers "win" in this competition with X actually losing money on them . However many , like me, come out ahead due to the amount of coffees , waters and other non-alcohol drinks we consume . No Celebrity doesn't lose on us but even so we come out ahead .

 

Returning to the thread topic , does this lead to heavy drinkers stumbling aboard their ships in greater numbers ? Not sure but if I drank like a fish I'd certainly cruise Celebrity .

 

I know 2 couples who cruise HAL because they like to smoke on their balcony and HAL is their only option . You could argue these are 2 very different things . Maybe . :confused: It makes sense to purchase products and services from those who satisfy your needs .

 

I agree, some days I may push the limits and would have drank more than what the daily rate for the package would be, but most days I would be lucky to be half way. However, as the package comes as a perk, the convenience and ease of not having to worry about how much I have is worth it and I feel I come out way in front that if I was paying for drinks as I went. X has a product that suits me.:D

 

I agree with some of your points, however I have heard on so so many occasions the little quote " I would never buy this many coffees, cocktails etc if I didn't have the package" and when you take into consideration how overly inflated the prices are believe you me Celebrity have a deal breaker with the packages. If it was not so I am ssure they would have gone back to the old system by now

 

Yes, I would probably have a drink instead of a water in some cases, and X obviously is making profits but I think most people feel they are ahead of if they were paying for drinks as the package has been included as a perk (even if the fares may have risen to include it).

[MicCanberra]

Well that and the fact that they actually rolled the cost of the drink package into the increased charge for the cruise.

 

Suits me (for now anyway).:cool:

[The_Big_M]

Well that and the fact that they actually rolled the cost of the drink package into the increased charge for the cruise.

 

That was a subsequent change, and it could be reversed, especially as it doesn't apply to all sailings or bookings. As it helps revenue though, another reason it's less likely to.

[The_Big_M]

[/b]

 

Correct - even if I don't drink, I am paying higher price.

 

But even if you are booking where that applies, you can choose another option if you don't want the package.

[ISABELLA]

But even if you are booking where that applies, you can choose another option if you don't want the package.

 

If there are no residential or senior special - there is no other pricing without perks. X is not giving a price choice- price with perks or without, unless they are running a promotion. I prefer a price without any " free with purchase" additives.

Edited June 6, 2016 by ISABELLA

[Flamencacha]

If there are no residential or senior special - there is no other pricing without perks. X is not giving a price choice- price with perks or without, unless they are running a promotion. I prefer a price without any " free with purchase" additives.

 

 

 

I much rather pay for me and my imaginary friend( solo supplement) with out the perks package. I feel I would come out on top.[emoji39]

 

 

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[chamima]

I much rather pay for me and my imaginary friend( solo supplement) with out the perks package. I feel I would come out on top.[emoji39]

 

 

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The solo cruisers are the ones who are really getting stiffed by the new "package" cruises. :(

 

(I sail with my husband so I, as they say, have no horse in that race. But it doesn't seem at all fair that solo cruisers pay double for the cruise and don't ever get a break for the doubled amenity that they aren't getting)

Edited June 6, 2016 by chamima

[Flamencacha]

The solo cruisers are the ones who are really getting stiffed by the new "package" cruises. :(

 

(I sail with my husband so I, as they say, have no horse in that race. But it doesn't seem at all fair that solo cruisers pay double for the cruise and don't ever get a break for the doubled amenity that they aren't getting)

 

 

 

Like I have posted before , when I see a single supplement deal I am interested it trumps all loyalty.

 

 

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[SetU2]

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Why bother to go on the cruise to be entertained by IT equipment? People can just sit on their couches and play games, watch videos or movies....

 

If the cruise lines are starting with that approach, will have to start to look at other types of vacation.

 

 

 

Why go for food, you can eat at home. Why go to bar hop, you can do that in your own town. Why go to play cards, you can invite others over and do that. The beauty of cruises is it affords many opportunities that appeal to a broad variety of people.

 

 

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[ISABELLA]

Why go for food, you can eat at home. Why go to bar hop, you can do that in your own town. Why go to play cards, you can invite others over and do that. The beauty of cruises is it affords many opportunities that appeal to a broad variety of people.

 

 

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If you are entertained by IT devices, I guess live entertaining is not for you.

But that is not what I was referring to.

[ISABELLA]

I much rather pay for me and my imaginary friend( solo supplement) with out the perks package. I feel I would come out on top.[emoji39]

 

 

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I also pay solo supplement. And being Elite+ gives more than enough drinks for me.

[grandgeezer]

If you are entertained by IT devices, I guess live entertaining is not for you.

But that is not what I was referring to.

 

I think you are reading things in the post that aren't there. I see no evidence that they are looking to replace live entertainment with electronic devices. We bring our ipads along to fill in the downtime when there is nothing going on that we are interested in. Some people read, some people take a nap, we surf the net and play games, either on our balcony or on deck someplace. It does not replace any activity we are interested in and I would be surprised if the poster doesn't look at it the same way.

[SetU2]

If you are entertained by IT devices, I guess live entertaining is not for you.

But that is not what I was referring to.

 

They're not mutually exclusive.

[ISABELLA]

I think you are reading things in the post that aren't there. I see no evidence that they are looking to replace live entertainment with electronic devices. We bring our ipads along to fill in the downtime when there is nothing going on that we are interested in. Some people read, some people take a nap, we surf the net and play games, either on our balcony or on deck someplace. It does not replace any activity we are interested in and I would be surprised if the poster doesn't look at it the same way.

 

A related statement was made several pages ago....

[capecodmercury]

This has been an interesting thread. A lot of good points made on both sides of the divide. Funny thing is that both sides are right from their own perspective.

From my point of view, think the answer to this debate may depend on what type of cruiser you are.

For example, I'm probably a good example of the cruiser Celebrity is trying to attract. I guess you could call me an occasional cruiser. I like to cruise on occasion, but the majority of the vacations I take are to land based resorts. Because of this, I don't have the long term perspective of the small changes that have occurred over the last twenty years. Instead, I look at my cruises in 2012 and 2015 and an honestly state that I have never been pampered on a land vacation as I have on a cruise.

That is where perspective comes in. If you are an occasional cruiser, the small changes don't matter because you compare the service to what you get at a resort and the added perks such as a drink package are a nice selling point. But if you cruise multiple times per year, your point of comparison is the prior cruises.

I also think that, at least to some degree, that we also must remember that the fog of memory can sometimes affect our recollection of past cruises. As time goes by, the small irritations fall away and we only think about the good times.

Finally, as to the topic of drink packages, I do think that they have had unintended consequences. I've cruised with and without an alcoholic drink package and it did change both the amount I drank and what I drank. Without the package, I drank mostly wine that I purchased by the bottle, brought on board or in cellar masters. With the package, I drank wine purchased by the glass with dinner and mixed drinks at night. I didn't even see the need to bring a bottle on board. I probably did drink more, even without drinking to excess.

As to the unintended consequences, I can't help but wonder if the prevalence of drink passages is affecting Celebrity's wine cellar. In 2012, I recall numerous occasions where the ship sold bottles from their cellar which you could bring to your stateroom. It also seemed that a large number of people in the MDR would buy a bottle to drink over a few meals. In 2015, I saw far fewer bottles and far more by the glass. Because of this, it is probably harder for Celebrity to keep a varied stock on hand based on the lesser sales. Over time, I fully expect to see the focus switch to a wider variety of wine by the glass and fewer bottle choices.

[digital_curator]

We started cruising in our mid 30s and chose Royal Caribbean because we were afraid that we would be bored. After trying a variety of their ships, we decided to try something new and went with Celebrity in 2011 (mostly because we prefer to cruise out of San Juan).

 

There were things we liked more about Royal Caribbean (the production shows, the onboard activities, friendlier, more relaxed crew) and things we liked more about Celebrity (higher quality of food, live music, more and higher quality events for loyalty club members).

 

We realize that service etc. can vary from ship to ship and sailing to sailing, but we have noticed a change in Celebrity's quality in the last few years. I have no idea if the cuts are because of the almost always included drink package or not but the cuts are noticeable.

 

On our first cruise, musicians included a pianist, a guitarist, a classical ensemble, a harpist, and an acapella group (as well as the regular lounge groups- band, Latin band, pool band). Since we didn't love the entertainment in the theater (personal preference), we would enjoy several of the musicians in various areas of the ship before and after dinner. It was a port intensive cruise with an active roll call so we didn't do many activities.

 

We thought the meals were much higher quality than those on Royal though the variety of sides were sometimes a little monotonous. The desserts were especially amazing- crepes, wonderful French pastries, etc. Things that were hard to find at home except in specialty shops or fine dining establishments. I loved the idea of a sommelier, though the reality was disappointing. As soon as he found out that I was interested in wines by the glass and not the bottle, he told me that the bar waiter could deal with me. Thankfully we had an excellent bar waiter, so I didn't miss the sommelier a bit. We didn't have a drink package on the first cruise because it was relatively new and wasn't an included perk.

 

We were amazed by the loyalty events- a wonderful selection of drinks and a grand buffet of treats, including crepes to order. Everything was very posh and it was lovely getting to know many of the officers.

 

We saw very few sales (we avoid the shopping area), and the only time we saw a big push for the spa was a lovely activity they set up around the adult pool with free mini massages, facials, etc. There wasn't even a hard sell.

 

On our next celebrity cruise in 2014, the 1-2-3 promotion was in full force but I noticed very few changes. We cruised with a large group in Anytime Dining and had amazing service from everyone, including a great sommelier. They didn't seem to have many tables and, as I have noticed, we got great attention because we were a table for 10. We did notice that the menus had become a little more pedestrian, especially the desserts. Our waiter surprised us a few times with old favorites, like the souffle.

 

At the bars, we never had trouble getting a seat or a drink. I was amazed at how well they handled the number of people with drink packages. The only place that I found to be really swamped was Cafe al Bacio.

 

We didn't go to many of the loyalty events because many of our friends were new cruisers.

 

We had a big group and a port intensive cruise, so again we didn't do many of the activities. I remember very few sales, but we avoided the shopping area.

 

We still enjoyed the musical acts and moved around the ship to listen to them. We spent a lot of time at the aft bar, both at sunset and in the evening, though smaller groups also spent time in the coffee bar at night, the martini bar before dinner, and in Michael's Club when it still had the variety of beer (though we found the room a little dark and depressing).

 

Forward to our last cruise, this past February. Same ship as last time, just two of us.

 

The food was good and the menus were basically the same from the last time though I thought the presentation was a little better. The dessert selection had been greatly reduced. Our waiter wanted so hard to please but he was rushed off his feet with so many tables! Our sommelier was the best yet but I hardly every saw him- he had 19 tables!!!! 19!!!! He also did the smoothies in the aqua spa cafe in the morning! But for the first time, the smoothies were good! There were times that he was almost running though that was difficult since the tables were so close together. We were at a lovely 2-top back by the aft windows but the next 2 top was 4 inches from ours (I measured). It was difficult to not feel like we were at the same table.

 

Service at the buffet had greatly improved. More things were served by the staff (I'm all for keeping noro away) and I liked the selection of food except for dessert (one day it was just pies, another day it was just cookies).

 

The bars were crowded and the number of staff greatly depleted. They did increase the number of bartenders at the aft bar, which was great because it was busy all the time. The martini bar still only had 3 (I don't think they could fit more) and it was very difficult to get a seat, though they were very quick to take our order. Since the craft beer moved to the wine bar, so did we. The number of people here really varied and it was often understaffed. We often went only to find one poor woman working alone. She couldn't do table service and people were complaining. We just went up and got our own drinks (I'm not bothered). Later in the cruise, they often had 1-2 people come help her before dinner. No drink service around the adult pool area and the lines were long at the pool bars. Fortunately, we often came up after people left for early dinner so not horrible but not like it was before. One place that service improved was the coffee bar- they always had one table-server and 3 baristas and they needed it! This was a working vacation for me (I know, oxymoron) and I worked here most days (yay, new fast internet!).

 

Most of the music was gone. There was a guitarist and a pianist who played only at the aft bar (guitarist) or coffee bar (both). There was also a Latin band and a pool band, and at the end a very good new group joined us. There was a DJ and while I liked the music she played (she read her audience and adjusted genres as needed), it was loud and really changed the atmosphere of the martini bar- we spent less time here than we did in the past, sometimes grabbing a drink "to go."

 

With the lack of music, we did more activities. As far as I could tell, it was a staff of three. The CD (who handled the theater), the Activities Director, and his assistant. They had to run from game to game at night, which was crazy. I enjoyed the trivia and liked that they are doing more "game shows," which were something that I really enjoyed on Royal. Many of the activities were in the bar just outside the MDR. This meant that this bar was PACKED all night. The staff of 3-4 were worked off their feet. All of them said that the drink package was killing them- they were making way more drinks and way less tips. One of the bartenders also worked in the coffee bar AND the buffet. I had never seen this before. They are really stretching the staff thin.

 

The biggest change was the sales- they were everywhere! Outside the buffet, on the pool deck. I rarely went by the shops and yet I saw stuff for sale everywhere. It was often by doorways and really disrupted the flow of people. There were tons of spa attendants and they were by the buffet, offering free 3-minute massages. While I enjoyed this, they were really pushing certain services, with discounts if you booked them by name. They had spa menus with the services circled and their names written out for you. Is the spa pushing them to make a certain number of "sales"?

 

We only went to one event and the selection of drinks was still quite nice but the food offerings were nowhere near the same. Just a few passed nibbles, not really worth eating.

 

Have I noticed changes? Yes. Some for the better and some for the worse (mostly staff cutbacks). I love the drink package (I do think I get my money's worth) but I wish that Celebrity could figure out how to make the profits they want without cutting staff. We didn't find grumpy staff but after getting to know them, they would admit how much more they are working than a few years ago and service suffers simply from the lack of people in each position.

 

None of this is going to make us stop cruising with Celebrity but we are hearing good things from friends and family who have switched to other lines and we are thinking about branching out. For as many new people that they are bringing in, I wonder how many loyal cruisers they are loosing?

[richstowe]

Excellent post digital_curator . I agree with pretty much all your points .

After my first Celebrity cruise I was completely won over . Following my second , experiencing various cutbacks , Celebrity had retreated back to one of many cruise-line options .

I'm very much looking forward to my next Celebrity cruise , my first on a Solstice class ship . The truth is that with the included perks , choosing Celebrity was almost my least expensive option . It wasn't a difficult choice . The truth is however that after my second cruise, I wasn't willing to pay much of a premium to go with Celebrity .