Large Charter caused dining problems

[SeaDays]

The overwhelming support you have received from this community is well deserved. Thanks for sharing your experience. What you encountered disturbs me greatly.

 

But what really makes my blood boil is the boilerplate response from Orlando Ashford. UNACCEPTABLE!

 

We are all smart enough to realize that corporate presidents and CEO’s have teams of first-line defenders to answer consumer complaints. It’s just so easy to press a computer function key to zap you out a bland, insincere response. The letter you received was probably not much different from the one responding to a passenger who found too much grizzle in their MDR steak.

 

Although there’s a legalize statement regarding groups on board, the message it conveys was violated in your case. There was no balance. You, and the majority of your cruise-mates were affected. HAL advertising, whether it be in print or digital, implies a certain level of expectations from onboard facilities, dining, and overall enjoyment. In your case, it was not delivered, and should be a serious concern of HAL management. Situations like this will expand the good work that members of this board do it tracking groups to other lines as well. Perhaps they will spur a “passengers’ bill of rights” such as be suggested earlier. Corporate shortsightedness bothers me to no end.

 

Karen, if you used a travel agent please discuss with that professional. I hope that agent takes this to his/her business development manager and makes a request to be updated of all large group bookings on a regular basis in order to provide the best professional service to clients.

 

Unlike my city’s one and only transit line, I have a choice on whom to cruise with. And, although I sometimes need to take the bus, I don’t have to cruise. (Well, maybe that’s a stretch). Mr. Ashford, you’re not in the public transit business. Put down the spreadsheet and get back to developing HAL's reputation and customers base.

 

Okay, rant over.

[Tampa Girl]

Thanks for the links to check on groups. I'm booked on the Oct. 23 7-day cruise on Nieuw Amsterdam and shared the information on our roll call. Several people are having their TAs find out more about the size of the group, which is one of the conservative Christian ones. And now we find that HAL informed one woman that there are TWO large groups on our cruise and the ship must have the upper and lower dining rooms cleared by 8pm for those groups to use.

Now I'm concerned about the second group and wonder if it's one that will take over the Crow's Nest. I'm so tempted to just cancel, but I got some very good freebies for this cruise that I'd hate to lose.

MY TA is going to try to find out about all this on Monday when she gets back to work.

 

You are a more patient women than I am if you think you can put up with two large groups, taking over the MDR! I would be cancelling in a heartbeat. Freebies do no good if your anticipated enjoyment of the ship is being put in jeopardy. That having been said, I am not on a restricted schedule and I fully understand why others would not want to cancel.

[pippersmom]

Sounds to me like this group was neither Christian nor Inspirational.

 

A temp. wall to separate them from other diners??? Wonder if they only frequent non licensed dining premises when not at home?

 

Not good when you do not get the cruise environment that you purchased.

 

I thought the same. I am not aware of true Christians behaving in such a way. Perhaps because it was such a large group, they felt emboldened to make demands. How sad for everyone. Not wanting to even see wine, etc., is more of a Muslim behavior. Legalism, not grace. Just the opposite of the way Jesus did things while on earth.

[silvercruiser]

Tampa Girl, I think you're the first person who ever even hinted that I'm a patient person. Thank you!!! Actually, I stayed up late last night checking out cruises on the West Coast and wondering if I really want to fly to Seattle to do a b2b that hits some of the California and Oregon spots.

I guess I was patient on the South Seas Westerdam cruise in April, because the weather was out of our control and the captain was such a cutie pie that he made it seem not so bad. But this is just plain sneaky, springing big groups on us. And I wonder if the specialty dining rooms will be tied up too.

[TiogaCruiser]

I thought the same. I am not aware of true Christians behaving in such a way. Perhaps because it was such a large group, they felt emboldened to make demands. How sad for everyone. Not wanting to even see wine, etc., is more of a Muslim behavior. Legalism, not grace. Just the opposite of the way Jesus did things while on earth.

 

It really could have been a few, who knows. Most of us weren't there. It can take just one person, or a few in a group who demonstrate(s) bad behavior, or what gets taken as bad behavior, to give a group a bad reputation. And several posters on this thread have added lots of additional thoughts (who apparently were not on the cruise) that have expounded on those feelings with a very broad brush. Inspiration Cruises is a travel agency that sets up tours and conferences for Christian Artists, teachers, groups and congregations. They are not a "group". They did the booking. There can be a lot of variation within the Christian community as to traditions. I'm not sure if this particular cruise was from one church home, or if they were a cross section of folks that signed up for the speaker (a well known author/teacher) and singer (who is popular)..

 

To me, the really serious issue here is HALs sale of a large piece of the ship for the exclusive use of a client (large group of pax) which was not disclosed to others in advance, and which adversely affected their use of the ship. Pax needs were not balanced. And the official response from the Pres is just as serious.

Edited July 10, 2016 by TiogaCruiser

[RocketMan275]

From our perspective it is fairly straightforward.

 

You deliver to your customer what you sold to them based upon the expectations you set and the commitments that you made.

 

So, if you signed up and were accepted for late seating and then got bumped out because of some large group the cruise line supplier is not longer delivering what they committed to. Only two options...come to a reasonable compromise and/or offer an acceptable monetary solution that matches situation.

 

Anything less is what we call 'cheating the customer'. Make a big stink in a public area. Don't let any vendor knowingly cheat you. It makes it worse for all the rest of us when a significant percentage of people accept that kind of nonsense from a supplier.

 

The cruise line contract delineates what the cruise line has committed to providing. These actions by the cruise line are completely in agreement with the cruise line contract. No where did the cruise line promise any specific dining arrangements. No where did they promise use of all facilities.

[Tarpeian Rock]

The cruise line contract delineates what the cruise line has committed to providing. These actions by the cruise line are completely in agreement with the cruise line contract. No where did the cruise line promise any specific dining arrangements. No where did they promise use of all facilities.

 

 

I don't think it would take OJ's "dream team" of lawyers to establish to a court's satisfaction - and certainly to a jury's - that HAL's acceptance of dining reservations for a specified time constituted an implied contract for services to be delivered at that time. Construed literally, the cruise contract would permit HAL to confine pax to their cabins for the duration of an entire cruise, provided that food was made available in the cabins - if such an action were couched in language related to safe operation of the vessel. Wouldn't be great for business, though.

[RocketMan275]

I don't think it would take OJ's "dream team" of lawyers to establish to a court's satisfaction - and certainly to a jury's - that HAL's acceptance of dining reservations for a specified time constituted an implied contract for services to be delivered at that time. Construed literally, the cruise contract would permit HAL to confine pax to their cabins for the duration of an entire cruise, provided that food was made available in the cabins - if such an action were couched in language related to safe operation of the vessel. Wouldn't be great for business, though.

 

Except that the words of the cruise contract clearly indicate that nothing is promised, that all can be changed at their discretion. The written contract would over-ride any implied contract for services. Your only chance would be to establish that you had no choice but to accept the written contract.

 

BTW, cruise lines have been writing cruise contracts for decades. They do have 'dream teams' of lawyers to write these contracts. Good luck.

[Windsailer]

As a HAL shareholder and HAL cruiser for many years...I really think that HAL needs to do a much better job of balancing the expectations of "regular" passengers with those of groups on board the ships. Under the cruise contract it's probably true that HAL can do whatever it wants...but is it good policy? For every person who is unhappy on HAL they tell a lot of potential customers...who don't become customers. I don't think that is good corporate policy.

[RocketMan275]

As a HAL shareholder and HAL cruiser for many years...I really think that HAL needs to do a much better job of balancing the expectations of "regular" passengers with those of groups on board the ships. Under the cruise contract it's probably true that HAL can do whatever it wants...but is it good policy? For every person who is unhappy on HAL they tell a lot of potential customers...who don't become customers. I don't think that is good corporate policy.

 

OTOH, all the cruise groups are very pleased and that leads to more cruise groups....

[Windsailer]

OTOH, all the cruise groups are very pleased and that leads to more cruise groups....

 

But HAL makes $$ from on-board sales, such as wine, spa, art auctions. I don't think the group on the NA did any of that based on Karen's description of their conduct.

[Fouremco]

As a HAL shareholder and HAL cruiser for many years...I really think that HAL needs to do a much better job of balancing the expectations of "regular" passengers with those of groups on board the ships. Under the cruise contract it's probably true that HAL can do whatever it wants...but is it good policy? For every person who is unhappy on HAL they tell a lot of potential customers...who don't become customers. I don't think that is good corporate policy.

You should be feeling conflicted. As a HAL cruiser, you would understandably want to reduce or eliminate groups and charters because of their potential impact on regular passengers. As a shareholder, however, you should be pleased with HAL's related business practises, as the groups and charters generate greater corporate profits.

[Windsailer]

You should be feeling conflicted. As a HAL cruiser, you would understandably want to reduce or eliminate groups and charters because of their potential impact on regular passengers. As a shareholder, however, you should be pleased with HAL's related business practises, as the groups and charters generate greater corporate profits.

 

I'm sure charters do generate larger profits...but do groups like the one that was on the NA? HAL would really have to sell the cabins at a premium to make up for the lack of on-board purchases.

[Fouremco]

I'm sure charters do generate larger profits...but do groups like the one that was on the NA? HAL would really have to sell the cabins at a premium to make up for the lack of on-board purchases.

Yes, bookings are priced at a premium, which is why HAL is very happy to welcome groups aboard.

[Karen13]

Hi Karen,

 

I would certainly post your concerns and the "form letter" response on Facebook. HAL seems to be very concerned with responding to posts on their page, https://www.facebook.com/HALCruises/?fref=ts. I certainly hope that your second email gets the respect that it deserves.

 

Laurie

 

I have posted my concerns on Facebook and have received much the same support as I have on this board (thanks to everyone). HAL have responded and advised me it is best to contact guest relations. (implying, in my view, that the Facebook page should not be used for complaints, only compliments) I have done so, and will post any response I get.

[ExpatBride]

Wow! That situation and the response from HAL are completely unacceptable!

 

I would've totally trolled those holy rollers if they disrupted my trip like that.

 

I'm very disappointed in HAL's response. I'm cruising with them for my first time next month after being less than impressed with NCL, and I hope my business isn't misplaced.

Edited July 11, 2016 by ExpatBride

[david,Mississauga]

The cruise line contract delineates what the cruise line has committed to providing. These actions by the cruise line are completely in agreement with the cruise line contract. No where did the cruise line promise any specific dining arrangements. No where did they promise use of all facilities.

 

One of the benefits of booking a Neptune suite is "Priority dining and seating requests". Although this is not part of the contract, and using the word "requests" is not a guarantee, if I booked a Neptune ten months in advance (as I did for a cruise last year) and could not get a late sitting assignment I would be unhappy, to say the least.

[Hlitner]

One of the benefits of booking a Neptune suite is "Priority dining and seating requests". Although this is not part of the contract, and using the word "requests" is not a guarantee, if I booked a Neptune ten months in advance (as I did for a cruise last year) and could not get a late sitting assignment I would be unhappy, to say the least.

 

"Priority" is an overused and over estimated word in the cruise industry. And it is worthless when a cruise line reserves an entire sitting for one large group! On HAL it can also become somewhat useless on long popular voyages where nearly everyone is 4 or 5 Star Mariners :). When embarking on a recent Grand Cruise we noticed that all the "priorty" lines were pretty long...but the regular (non-priority) line was empty. So we simply went in that non-priority line and were quickly checked-in. A nearby friend remarked, "I worked hard to get to 5 Stars so there is no way I am getting in the regular line). That friend was still waiting in their "priority" line as we left the terminal to board the ship :)

 

Hank

Edited July 11, 2016 by Hlitner

[iancal]

I agree.

 

Priority boarding is meaningless to us, along with a lot of other so called 'priority' benefits.

 

On our last 2 cruises the Priority boarding lines were longest. We had priority boarding on our last RCI cruise and on our last Celebrity cruise. As above, in both cases the Priority and Suite boarding lines were actually longer than the regular lines. We opted for the latter and we processed and on our way within 5 minutes.

 

We were shaking our heads about the folks who were actually lined up and waiting in the Priority/Suite line ups when they could have gone with the great unwashed and had no line up whatsoever. We can never figure it out. It is an aspirational thing? Do they want to be noticed as being in the so called 'special' line up? Or are they just a bunch of sheep?

 

We have looked at booking Neptune but always demur. Not willing to pay for something that we get for free on RCI/Celebrity regardless of what cabin category we book. The only differentiating benny for us would be real estate.

Edited July 11, 2016 by iancal

[gr8life]

Is this unique to HAL or do other cruise lines welcome these large groups too?

 

Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk

 

Kathy, it's on almost all cruiselines.

Once we were unknowingly on Norwegian with a gay men group, the pool area was filled all in revealing bathing suits, PDA everywhere.

Very uncomfortable.

 

 

http://themecruisefinder.com/CruiseAds/

[axelskater]

Wales4ever - I am also on this cruise and having a political group onboard was causing some concern. I tried getting details from the group organizer and was told due to privacy, they couldn't tell me anything. I voiced my concerns with my TA, she contacted HAL and got some info from them. It would look to be under 200 people (so less than 10%) of the ship and they won't be using any public spaces - just meeting rooms.

Not sure of that helps or not. I am still undecided about the cruise, but my dates are limited.

 

The Weekly Standard is a bunch of conservative policy wonks. They are pretty quiet. They will be discussing fiscal policy & things like national debt ratio to spending levels. Actually - I kind of like that, but not for a cruise....I would not worry about that group at all. For most people, it's a yawner.

 

About the Christian groups - I actually have heard many of the speakers who are listed on different voyages on the Inspiration Cruise website (for next year). Many of them are great, dynamic speakers, and I like hearing them. I have never heard any of them talk about alcohol, but I hear them at political events, not at a church. But neither my Roman Catholic self nor my RC husband will for one second give up having fun on vacation, doing alcohol tastings, dancing, and enjoying ourselves. I especially can't wait to visit local wine & beer spots in AK.

We are booked for my first ever HAL voyage on 9/2/17, Eurodam. I am very much looking forward to it. There are no groups right now.

[Traveling Dot]

Karen13,

One question I have is "Did HAL still have a RC priest on your cruise and was there mass every day?" I am on the same cruise as Silvercruiser in October and if the only problem would be the dining issue I can live with that. But if they impacted other venues that would be a game changer. Especially if there was no priest allowed on board.

[Fouremco]

Karen13,

One question I have is "Did HAL still have a RC priest on your cruise and was there mass every day?" I am on the same cruise as Silvercruiser in October and if the only problem would be the dining issue I can live with that. But if they impacted other venues that would be a game changer. Especially if there was no priest allowed on board.

HAL continues to provide a daily RC mass for regular cruises, including those with groups on board. I don't know if this holds true for whole-ship charters.

[Boytjie]

HAL continues to provide a daily RC mass for regular cruises, including those with groups on board. I don't know if this holds true for whole-ship charters.

 

I have not run into a HAL priest on our charters and I am not sure there would be an RC priest going along for that. :)

 

There have been other clergy on board but I think they were there as passengers and may have held volunteered to do services; I know there have been rabbis that did it. Also, on one cruise when we scattered a friend's ashes there was a New Wavy minister onboard that assisted with that.

[Karen13]

There was a mass listed on the daily schedule on some days I noticed. I could not be sure it was every day. You would have to check with HAL.