No medical waivers honored! Past final payment

[RDC1]

I would think there's a point at which it does. I think this would be easier to see if they said, "we will stock a special case of Gatorade for you, but it will be $500 per bottle and you can't bring it on board."

 

If they have made a policy change that results in a disabled customer having to pay more for the cruise, and they won't allow a free cancellation, then I would think there may be some recourse. In the end, I have a feeling they wouldn't want to litigate or arbitrate their alleged "safety" concern or the publicity, but who knows. I'm sure they know nobody is going to take the trouble.

 

It's fine for a company to take the position that, "hey we don't care who is in the cabin, so long as some customer will take the cabin let the ones who get upset about a given change use another line." But when the policy falls disproportionately on the disabled, that's another story. Whether this one does is way outside my zone of expertise and so I have no comment on it, but I do think the no-food-in-cabins policy was one such policy. As a parent of a disabled child, I found NCL somewhat tone-deaf on the issue at first, thinking that the enhanced room service menu was an adequate substitute for those who wanted the choice of the buffet but who could not always going up there. Eventually they did the right thing, but I think that was more for economic reasons than any altruism with respect to the disable, but hopefully they will ultimately do the right thing here. I suppose they are justifiably concerned about the exceptions swallowing up the rule, but there are folks for whom this really is an issue, I expect, and who have nonrefundable tickets or who are past final payment.

 

My choice when they changed the no-food-to-cabin was an easy one, because I didn't have any cruises booked past final payment or airline reservations, so my choice was simply to move to Royal Caribbean until they changed the policy. Accordingly, my vote would be that NCL should allow medical waivers -- even if it leads to some cheating the new rule -- for a year and if they want to change to a hardline position after that, at least we have notice.

 

 

The ADA only comes into play if they charge a disabled customer more then they do for a non-disabled customer, which is not the case. Or if they do not provide reasonable accommodation to permit access. The ADA was never intended to eliminate costs that might be related to a persons disability.

 

If they did not have gatorade on board, if it could not be brought on board in powdered form, or if the individuals doctor wrote that there was a medical need that could not be met by the powdered form and then the ship did not allow it to be brought on board then one might be able to say that the liquid restriction was blocking access.

[NLH Arizona]

I have never, ever heard of a hotel doing anything like this, and there would be no way to control it anyways.

Actually some do have this policy, but hard to enforce unlike on a cruise ship and I bet no one ever reads the terms and conditions. I've encountered it a number of times, most recently at this hotel.

 

FOOD AND BEVERAGE POLICY

Due to local and state Health Department codes and liability concerns, the hotel does not allow outside food or drinks to be brought into the hotel unless they are provided by a hotel-approved caterer with a certificate of insurance on file with the hotel. Hot plates and heating elements may not be used in guest rooms and will be removed if found by the hotel staff as a fire safety precaution. If you are interested in arranging outside catering, please contact our sales department at (1)(973) 515-2000.http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/announcements.html?propertyID=865&language=en_US

Edited July 8, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[Choochala]

 

Just like the parents who get their doctors to write notes saying that Bobby and Sally have ADHD and can't wait in line, and then BOOM they go right to the front of the line at Disney, no questions asked. I am fairly certain that many of them have no condition whatsoever, other than having entitled parents.

 

Sorry to hijack but is this true? I'm flabbergasted that they would let this happen.

[GeezerCouple]

Actually some do have this policy, but hard to enforce unlike on a cruise ship and I bet no one ever reads the terms and conditions. I've encountered it a number of times, most recently at this hotel.

 

FOOD AND BEVERAGE POLICY

Due to local and state Health Department codes and liability concerns, the hotel does not allow outside food or drinks to be brought into the hotel unless they are provided by a hotel-approved caterer with a certificate of insurance on file with the hotel. Hot plates and heating elements may not be used in guest rooms and will be removed if found by the hotel staff as a fire safety precaution. If you are interested in arranging outside catering, please contact our sales department at (1)(973) 515-2000.http://www.starwoodhotels.com/sheraton/property/overview/announcements.html?propertyID=865&language=en_US

 

Thanks.

 

We stand corrected.

 

However, there certainly is the enforcement issue, and we've never encountered that, even at Starwood properties... no attempt to mention this policy or inquire about what we were bringing in, including when it was in plain sight, both beverages [lattes, soft drinks] or food [pastries, sandwiches...] :confused:

[Regguy]

Sorry to hijack but is this true?

 

Nope. https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

[FLcruisergrl]

Not sure if it is covered under ADA, but if it were, NCL has the products they need on board the ship, they are not in any violation. If NCL didn't have the products on board the ship and wouldn't allow it brought on, that would be a violation.

 

You are correct. I was responding to someone who said they'd invoke ADA immediately. Not all conditions are covered under ADA. It would only be a violation IF it were a covered condition and IF products were not available on board. Then a request for a reasonable accommodation could be made.

[RDC1]

Thanks.

 

We stand corrected.

 

However, there certainly is the enforcement issue, and we've never encountered that, even at Starwood properties... no attempt to mention this policy or inquire about what we were bringing in, including when it was in plain sight, both beverages [lattes, soft drinks] or food [pastries, sandwiches...] :confused:

 

That is usually only enforced when it comes to event space. If you were to use the hotel for a business meeting you would have to buy your refreshments through the hotel. You could not stop at a bakery and bring in boxes of donuts and jugs of coffee for example. Ran into that enforcement often enough in multiple hotel chains. $4 (probably $5 now since this was a few years ago) per a glass bottle 6 ounce soft drink was even more of a rip off then NCL's bottled water rates.

 

 

Usually not enforced in individual rooms, though it could be used as a reason to kick someone out if they were bringing in food and making a mess of the room.

Edited July 8, 2016 by RDC1

[sverigecruiser]

I suspect that this is officially the case for some hotels (maybe most of them), but I can say from experience that its is not generally enforced if so.

 

I stay in 30-40 hotels a year, and have done for a number of years. The total number of times that my bags have been searched, or any mention has been made of policies regarding taking drinks in is zero. I have also never heard of it happening to anyone else.

 

Basically, it is enforced to such a minimal extent that the policy itself is irrelevant.

 

I agree that it's not enforced very often. The policy is still there but I tend to agree with you that it's irrelevant.

Edited July 8, 2016 by sverigecruiser

[sverigecruiser]

I have never, ever heard of a hotel doing anything like this, and there would be no way to control it anyways.

 

It's not easy to control, since hotel still doesn't have the security screening they have when boarding a cruiseship, but it's possible. They can just tell the guests to show their bags when entering the hotel.

[sparks1093]

It's not easy to control, since hotel still doesn't have the security screening they have when boarding a cruiseship, but it's possible. They can just tell the guests to show their bags when entering the hotel.

 

Any hotel asking that of me would be shown my backside as I walk out the door and across the street to the competition.:)

[Quilting_Cruiser]

It's not easy to control, since hotel still doesn't have the security screening they have when boarding a cruiseship, but it's possible. They can just tell the guests to show their bags when entering the hotel.

 

And, has that ever, ever happened to you??? I take about four personal and six to eight business trips each year (all over the U.S., Europe, and Asia) and I've never once seen a policy like that at any hotel nor had hotel personnel ask to check my bags. Many times I've stood at the registration counter with beverages and take-out food as I checked in and it's never been questioned.

[blackwing]

Nope. https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

Hmmm.... I notice they have changed it since I was last there, and that they say they have changed the program because of widespread abuse. That's good to see.

 

But this replacement program does still allow people to skip the line, it's just that you can't do so instantly, and it is limited to one ride at a time. If you want to ride Space Mountain and the sign says it's a 90 minute wait, you get a timestamp that lets you skip to the front of the line at 90 minutes from now. They then could go and ride other rides with no wait time, and come back at any time later and skip the line.

 

Nonetheless, it does sound like a move in the right direction. There are some kids that really do have autism or Asperger's or severe ADHD that can't wait in lines. Glad to see that Disney is still accomodating them as much as they can, and too bad that changes were made to the program because of people abusing it.

 

Incidentally, Six Flags has a similar program but I don't think the return time thing is enforced at all. I've seen many just wave the paper and walk right through. And I overheard one mom encourage her friend to get a doctors note to claim ADHD and skip lines.

 

It's people like this that seem to result in the "zero tolerance" behaviour (as of now) by NCL towards medical waivers. Maybe NCL will relent in the near future.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

Hmmm.... I notice they have changed it since I was last there, and that they say they have changed the program because of widespread abuse. That's good to see.

 

But this replacement program does still allow people to skip the line, it's just that you can't do so instantly, and it is limited to one ride at a time. If you want to ride Space Mountain and the sign says it's a 90 minute wait, you get a timestamp that lets you skip to the front of the line at 90 minutes from now. They then could go and ride other rides with no wait time, and come back at any time later and skip the line.

 

Well, that's how it works in theory, but in practice it's rarely done that way. Or anyway, that wasn't our experience a few months ago in Disneyland. Almost without exception, we were just sent through an alternate entrance that took us to the front of the line or near the front. Only on Indiana Jones did they give us a return ticket and only one time (we rode it two or three times and were just directed to the alternate entrance the other time(s)). We're going back in a few months so we'll see if our experience is consistent. And, before I get flamed, a member of my family does have a disability -- we're not scamming. :o

[RDC1]

And, has that ever, ever happened to you??? I take about four personal and six to eight business trips each year (all over the U.S., Europe, and Asia) and I've never once seen a policy like that at any hotel nor had hotel personnel ask to check my bags. Many times I've stood at the registration counter with beverages and take-out food as I checked in and it's never been questioned.

 

Have you ever booked a hotel meeting room (not a guest room) for a business presentation or meeting? That is what the rule is aimed at and enforced, not individual guest rooms.

[Two Wheels Only]

Nope. https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

 

Anything is possible...

 

 

"Why doesn’t Disney Parks ask for proof of disability, such as a doctor’s note?"

Disney Parks takes Guests at their word and there are legal restrictions around asking for proof.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

Have you ever booked a hotel meeting room (not a guest room) for a business presentation or meeting? That is what the rule is aimed at and enforced, not individual guest rooms.

 

Yes, I understand that, but the person I quoted and to whom I was responding isn't talking about that.

 

To answer your question directly, my assistant has booked hotel meeting rooms for presentations and we've on occasion had them catered by off-property restaurants with no issues. But, of course, we've always checked the hotel's policy first.

[Sissaaaaaa]

Sorry to hijack but is this true? I'm flabbergasted that they would let this happen.

 

Not anymore, but it was. They changed the rules a couple of years ago. Further, you never needed a doctor's note. All you had to do was say you had a medical reason and boom - you got the "pass" which allowed you into the fast pass line for any and all rides.

[Sissaaaaaa]

Well, that's how it works in theory, but in practice it's rarely done that way. Or anyway, that wasn't our experience a few months ago in Disneyland. Almost without exception, we were just sent through an alternate entrance that took us to the front of the line or near the front. Only on Indiana Jones did they give us a return ticket and only one time (we rode it two or three times and were just directed to the alternate entrance the other time(s)). We're going back in a few months so we'll see if our experience is consistent. And, before I get flamed, a member of my family does have a disability -- we're not scamming. :o

 

This is ONLY for Disneyland! Disneyland and Disney World operate VERY differently. Another example of this is you can bring your own food and drink into Disney World, provided it isn't in a glass container (except baby food) and doesn't need to be heated. Disneyland does not allow this at all. Disneyland still allows the fast pass entrance for disabilities - Disney World will give you a specific time (much like a fast pass) to return to the ride.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

This is ONLY for Disneyland! Disneyland and Disney World operate VERY differently. Another example of this is you can bring your own food and drink into Disney World, provided it isn't in a glass container (except baby food) and doesn't need to be heated. Disneyland does not allow this at all. Disneyland still allows the fast pass entrance for disabilities - Disney World will give you a specific time (much like a fast pass) to return to the ride.

 

 

I didn't say it was Disney World; I specifically said it was at Disneyland. The link that was posted lists the same guidelines for both parks, and my experience has been different (at Disneyland). Of note, Disneyland was built before ADA became a law, so it operates differently than the other Disney parks, including California Adventure. At California Adventure, we're given a return time.

Edited July 8, 2016 by Quilting_Cruiser

[drhry]

Is this Cruise Critic Or Disney??:confused:

[fshagan]

Well, that's how it works in theory, but in practice it's rarely done that way. Or anyway, that wasn't our experience a few months ago in Disneyland. Almost without exception, we were just sent through an alternate entrance that took us to the front of the line or near the front. Only on Indiana Jones did they give us a return ticket and only one time (we rode it two or three times and were just directed to the alternate entrance the other time(s)). We're going back in a few months so we'll see if our experience is consistent. And, before I get flamed, a member of my family does have a disability -- we're not scamming. :o

 

The new policy cut down on the scammers; there were even "advertised tours" on Craig's List where a person would join you at Disneyland and, for the price of their ticket and an extra $200, would get you on all the rides with the "front of the line" disability access. Disney was sued when they changed the policy to the current one and had to tweak it a bit to satisfy one special needs group, but it has virtually eliminated the problem of thousands each day claiming a "no questions asked disability pass". (You read that right ... it was thousands of passes per day).

 

I don't think the ADA requires lower priced goods just that, if something is not available, some kind of reasonable accommodation be made. And not every physical ailment is covered by the ADA (someone mentioned that dietary needs like the OP's husband are not covered).

 

NCL's policy is boorish and unfriendly, but probably not in violation of the ADA. I'm not even sure the ADA applies to cruise ships flying a foreign flag when they are not in a US port.

[pspercy]

Why would ADA even apply to foreign flagged ships?

Edited July 9, 2016 by pspercy

[RDC1]

Why would ADA even apply to foreign flagged ships?

 

Because they call at US ports.

[pspercy]

Because they call at US ports.

 

Commentary from 2005 on Supreme Court ruling:

http://www.southwestada.org/html/publications/ebulletins/legal/2005/jun2005.html

[RDC1]

Commentary from 2005 on Supreme Court ruling:

http://www.southwestada.org/html/publications/ebulletins/legal/2005/jun2005.html

 

Yep, it applies because they call on US ports (sail in US waters to reach the US ports). As the article points the degree to which they have to comply is a gray area.