Opening Balcony Dividers Yourself

[triptolemus]

Couldn't agree more, it is a blast! Why Norwegian would want to add another deterrent to cruising with them is beyond me.

 

I'm no NCL cheerleader and NCL is really piling straws on the camels back. There are lots of reasons to choose another line. Their balcony divider policy simply isn't one of them. It is a legitimate safety concern -- as chengkp75, points out -- regardless if you choose to believe it or not. Now, it may not be as significant a safety risk, as say, an open fire pit in the atrium, or water skiing in the ship's wake, but NCL has decided it is a concern which is based on sound engineering principles and the advice of industry safety experts.

 

What other lines decide to do is not something NCL should base their safety policy on. For example. perhaps the design of some of the Princess ships allows the dividers to be opened without creating an unreasonably unsafe condition.

 

You sound as if your mind is made up. So just search the threads, get the multi-tool that is described, and just open the goddamn dividers yourself and to hell with the rules and everyone else, right?

Edited July 29, 2016 by triptolemus

[DevCruise]

\The ability to open the dividers was mandated by law after the Star Princess fire, where the fire teams could not go from one balcony to the next to fight the fire. The ability to open is for firefighting and maintenance only.

 

Thanks for posting this. I'd always wondered why NCL keeps designing ships with dividers that could be opened if they were going to refuse to open them. Not that I care either way, I never travel with anybody next door.

[chengkp75]

@chengkp75,

 

I don't think I've read about a cruise ship disaster caused by fire, but in case of a fire that gets out of control, is there an emergency procedure where the Captain would say "Attention all guests and crew. We have a very serious fire. We need you to help fighting it. Please help us by throwing overboard anything that's flammable. I'm serious. This includes curtains, paintings, cupboards, your beds, minibars, carpets and even your luggage. The only exception is lifevests which you should put in the hallway. Also please help other guests to do the same in their cabins".

 

It would be a bit costly, and a lot of trees planted to make up for the environmental damage done, but always less than losing lives or the ship. An average ship, having like 1000 crew and 2000 guests working hard to strip the ship to almost bare metal should be able to stop any fire?

 

Star Princess is one, Carnival Ecstasy, Carnival Splendor, Carnival Triumph, Grandeur of the Seas, to mention a few that come to the top of my head. And far more important than trying to strip away flammable items (most of which are fire retardant anyway), is not breaching a fire zone boundary. Even if a fire gets a good hold on one zone, and essentially guts that zone, if you can contain it within the fire zone boundary, and cool the boundary bulkheads, you will save the ship. The Star Princess fire was so bad because the fire jumped the zone boundaries at the balconies, which is why the zones have since been extended out to include the balconies.

[Turtles06]

I am not getting into this other than to say that Cheng has some very respectable insight about cruise ships. I also appreciate the knowledge shared.

 

Cheers

 

I agree totally.

[Fido Chuckwagon]

so glad we cruise princess...Have had our 3 connected balconies opened for all 15 days thru the panama canal and hope to do that again on our next cruise..4 mini's and we party and have a blast out there with our friends!

 

On the other hand Princess had a bad fire that was exacerbated by just this policy so...

[triptolemus]

On the other hand Princess had a bad fire that was exacerbated by just this policy so...

 

Yes, exactly, except it wasn't. Read chengkp75's post above. Part of the problem was the dividers didn't open, which hindered fire fighting efforts.

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Yes, exactly, except it wasn't. Read chengkp75's post above. Part of the problem was the dividers didn't open, which hindered fire fighting efforts.

 

And part of the problem was that at the time the firebreaks did not extend to the balconies. Now they do but having them open defeats the whole purpose of it, that is also discussed in this very thread, by chengkp75.

 

A fire on a ship is very dangerous and depending on wind can spread very very fast. The firebreaks are an important feature in stopping the spread, the convenience of having the balconies connected is not worth this risk. The risks of fires starting on balconies are also amplified by drunk people doing stupid things like throwing cigarettes overboard, coupled with people leaving things out on their balconies. This is why you should never leave anything out on your balcony, and especially not things like bathing suits or towels (which you should hang in your bathroom to dry).

Edited July 30, 2016 by Fido Chuckwagon

[triptolemus]

And part of the problem was that at the time the firebreaks did not extend to the balconies. Now they do but having them open defeats the whole purpose of it, that is also discussed in this very thread, by chengkp75.

 

A fire on a ship is very dangerous and depending on wind can spread very very fast. The firebreaks are an important feature in stopping the spread, the convenience of having the balconies connected is not worth this risk. The risks of fires starting on balconies are also amplified by drunk people doing stupid things like throwing cigarettes overboard.

 

Please read the thread. I do not advocate opening the dividers.

[fshagan]

I don't think I've read about a cruise ship disaster caused by fire ...

 

Here's part of the report on the Star Princess. I remembered this one because we were on that cruise a year or so before this incident. This report supports what chengkp75 said, because while the ship met the current standards they were inadequate to stop this incident.

 

A list of this and 42 other cruise line fires is at http://www.shipdetective.com/advice/safety/fires.htm

 

The full PDF file is at: http://www.shipdetective.com/advice/safety/pdf/Star%20Princess89.pdf

 

The fire started on an external stateroom balcony sited on deck 10 in the centre of main vertical zone 3, on the vessel’s port side. It was probably caused by a discarded cigarette end heating combustible materials on a balcony, which smouldered for about 20 minutes before flames developed. Once established, the fire spread rapidly along adjacent balconies and, assisted by a strong wind over the deck, it spread up to decks 11 &12 and onto stateroom balconies in fire zones 3 and 4 within 6 minutes. After a further 24 minutes, it had spread to zone 5. The fire also spread into the staterooms as the heat of the fire shattered the glass in stateroom balcony doors, but was contained by each stateroom’s fixed fire-smothering system, the restricted combustibility of their contents, and their thermal boundaries. As the fire progressed, large amounts of dense black smoke were generated from the combustible materials on the balconies, and the balcony partitions. This smoke entered the adjacent staterooms and alleyways, and hampered the evacuation of the passengers, particularly on deck 12. One passenger died as a result of smoke inhalation, and 13 others were treated for the effects of the smoke.

 

A number of factors were identified which indicate that, although the balconies met the fire protection requirements of SOLAS II-2, the basic principles of this regulation did not apply to these, or other, external areas. These included:

 

• The balconies’ polycarbonate partitions, polyurethane deck tiles, and the plastic furniture were highly combustible and produced large quantities of very thick black smoke when burned.

 

• The glass in the doors between the staterooms and balconies were neither fire rated to meet with the requirements of an ‘A’ class division, nor self-closing.

 

• The balconies crossed main zone fire boundaries, both horizontally and vertically without structural or thermal barriers at the zone or deck boundaries.

 

• No fire detection or fire suppression systems were fitted on the balconies.

 

The fire was extinguished within 1.5 hours after it had started. The crew fought the fire with water hoses from adjacent external areas, and from internal alleyways. Difficulty was experienced in reaching the fire due to the construction and partitioning of the balcony areas. A total of 79 staterooms were condemned after the fire, and a further 218 were damaged by fire, smoke, or water. The damaged area covered 3 vertical fire zones on 5 decks.

 

The fire on the balcony spread through other fire zones, and the partitions were plastic. On every NCL ship I've been on, the balcony has metal dividers and, if I recall correctly, fire sprinklers.

 

I was told by a musician on our GEM cruise last October that the only other duty they had was being part of the fire fighter team. Evidently, every member of the crew has a job to do when a fire happens.

Edited July 30, 2016 by fshagan

[stickey_mouse]

I'm no NCL cheerleader and NCL is really piling straws on the camels back. There are lots of reasons to choose another line. Their balcony divider policy simply isn't one of them.

 

You sound as if your mind is made up. So just search the threads, get the multi-tool that is described, and just open the goddamn dividers yourself and to hell with the rules and everyone else, right?

 

Do you ever cruise with a large group? I assure you, it is a factor when choosing a cruise line or ship. I organize my particular group and field the questions and comments, and trust me, this is a common question!

 

And no, my mind isn't made up about anything. Again, I love when people use their psychic abilities to publish what I'm thinking.

Edited July 30, 2016 by stickey_mouse

[stickey_mouse]

And please, for the record, know that I am not condoning any action that puts yourself or others at risk.

 

I initiated the topic because I had read things before and was curious as to Norwegian's response to it when noticed. At the time, I assumed that the policy was as much about laziness as it was safety.

[chengkp75]

Here's part of the report on the Star Princess. I remembered this one because we were on that cruise a year or so before this incident. This report supports what chengkp75 said, because while the ship met the current standards they were inadequate to stop this incident.

 

A list of this and 42 other cruise line fires is at http://www.shipdetective.com/advice/safety/fires.htm

 

The full PDF file is at: http://www.shipdetective.com/advice/safety/pdf/Star%20Princess89.pdf

 

 

 

The fire on the balcony spread through other fire zones, and the partitions were plastic. On every NCL ship I've been on, the balcony has metal dividers and, if I recall correctly, fire sprinklers.

 

I was told by a musician on our GEM cruise last October that the only other duty they had was being part of the fire fighter team. Evidently, every member of the crew has a job to do when a fire happens.

 

From the Star Princess, the balcony dividers have to be flame retardant, not necessarily metal, but plastics that only smolder like isocyanurates. On the balcony itself, the furnishings either must be fire retardant as well, or if not then a sprinkler head must be installed.

 

And yes, every single crew member has a "fire and emergency" station with an assigned duty, whether that is guiding passengers, mustering passengers, fire teams, medical teams, security teams, engineering teams, etc, etc.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Just ask the steward to do it and leave the tool bag at home. Wouldn't want to have to pay for damaging the locking mechanism.

 

we asked the steward and he said he wasn't allowed to open the dividers so we opened it with a knife from the buffet.

 

When we were done on the balcony and went in to shower and leave the room we locked it back up.

 

Bill

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Thanks for posting this. I'd always wondered why NCL keeps designing ships with dividers that could be opened if they were going to refuse to open them. Not that I care either way, I never travel with anybody next door.

 

I never knew of or actually thought of the safety aspect of it.l think I'll think twice before doing that again.:o

 

Bill

[Msmojo66]

Ok...so trying to follow this thread but getting confused!!!! We are a party of 14. 6 of us are sailing in 3 balconies and one even connecting. Are you all saying that our room steward WILL NOT unlock between the 3 balconies??

[Demonyte]

Ok...so trying to follow this thread but getting confused!!!! We are a party of 14. 6 of us are sailing in 3 balconies and one even connecting. Are you all saying that our room steward WILL NOT unlock between the 3 balconies??

 

In hopes of better tips your steward might break the rules and open the dividers if you ask them to, but it is still forbidden fleet wide.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Demonyte

[ellie1145]

we asked the steward and he said he wasn't allowed to open the dividers so we opened it with a knife from the buffet.

 

 

Bill

 

Unbelievable. :eek::mad:

[Two Wheels Only]

Unbelievable. :eek::mad:

 

To be fair, the following post from the same person was...

 

I never knew of or actually thought of the safety aspect of it.l think I'll think twice before doing that again.:o

 

...so at least he'll think about it....hopefully won't actually break the rule again.

[sparks1093]

From the Star Princess, the balcony dividers have to be flame retardant, not necessarily metal, but plastics that only smolder like isocyanurates. On the balcony itself, the furnishings either must be fire retardant as well, or if not then a sprinkler head must be installed.

 

And yes, every single crew member has a "fire and emergency" station with an assigned duty, whether that is guiding passengers, mustering passengers, fire teams, medical teams, security teams, engineering teams, etc, etc.

 

Are there not penalties imposed on passengers that tamper with ship's safety equipment and would not those penalties extend to balcony dividers?

[chengkp75]

Are there not penalties imposed on passengers that tamper with ship's safety equipment and would not those penalties extend to balcony dividers?

 

The terms of the ticket contract could be interpreted to include the balcony dividers, but I've never heard of it being enforced. As I've said, we used to allow a certain number, in ones or twos spread out over various parts of the ship, so I'm guessing that a lot of Captains are turning a blind eye to the stewards opening them, unless it gets out of hand. The bridge wing cameras get a good view down the side of the ship, so they can see which dividers are open.

[SWFL Cruisers]

We sail with another couple almost always and have never heard of any rules regarding the partitions. The steward has always opened them for us within the first hour on board.

[Cloudyrain]

Why can't people just walk down the corridor and knock on the door of their friends/families in neighbouring cabins, or call them on the phone.

 

I know my personal experience of this situation is probably creating a bias, but still the whole situation seems ridiculous. If people want to all get together go to the public areas, and leave the balconies for people who just want a bit of peace and quiet.

 

Dividers are there for a reason, and regardless of fire I do wonder how many thefts/assaults have occurred by people being able to do this. I would expect that given the sensitive nature of these incidents they probably go un-reported on sites like this.

[beerman2]

Am I the only one that doesn't like having the balcony dividers opened when traveling in a large group with adjoining cabins? The constant fear of a 5-year old smudging up against the sliding glass door sort of limits what activities can occur in a stateroom.

 

Or on balcony at night!

[beerman2]

Why can't people just walk down the corridor and knock on the door of their friends/families in neighbouring cabins, or call them on the phone.

 

I know my personal experience of this situation is probably creating a bias, but still the whole situation seems ridiculous. If people want to all get together go to the public areas, and leave the balconies for people who just want a bit of peace and quiet.

 

Dividers are there for a reason, and regardless of fire I do wonder how many thefts/assaults have occurred by people being able to do this. I would expect that given the sensitive nature of these incidents they probably go un-reported on sites like this.

If your traveling with family or friends the last thing I would be concerned with is theft/assaults.

 

I know IT COULD happen but less likely.

 

As far as having the dividers open it is more convenient traveling between rooms. You don't hear the cabin doors closing either.

 

Have sailed with dividers open and closed, it becomes a personal preference between traveling companions.

[ColinIllinois]

There are some posters in this forum who you can doubt what they write however ChengKP is not one of them. As a career maritime officer his posts are spot on and technically impeccable.

 

As a retired sailor myself I have a lot of respect for his views.