Opening Balcony Dividers Yourself

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Ok...so trying to follow this thread but getting confused!!!! We are a party of 14. 6 of us are sailing in 3 balconies and one even connecting. Are you all saying that our room steward WILL NOT unlock between the 3 balconies??

 

NCL's policy is not to unlock them for fire safety reasons. You *may* find a room steward who is willing to disregard this policy.

[stickey_mouse]

Why can't people just walk down the corridor and knock on the door of their friends/families in neighbouring cabins, or call them on the phone.

 

The best part of being able to combine balconies is to hang out as a group. The added convenience of communication is just icing on the cake.

[sparks1093]

Why can't people just walk down the corridor and knock on the door of their friends/families in neighbouring cabins, or call them on the phone.

 

I know my personal experience of this situation is probably creating a bias, but still the whole situation seems ridiculous. If people want to all get together go to the public areas, and leave the balconies for people who just want a bit of peace and quiet.

 

Dividers are there for a reason, and regardless of fire I do wonder how many thefts/assaults have occurred by people being able to do this. I would expect that given the sensitive nature of these incidents they probably go un-reported on sites like this.

 

I read one thread a while ago where the OP had things stolen by teenagers that climbed over or around the divider and entered their cabin that way. Since I read that I make sure we lock the balcony door when we leave the cabin.

[Zaphod1962]

@chengkp75,

 

I don't think I've read about a cruise ship disaster caused by fire, but in case of a fire that gets out of control, is there an emergency procedure where the Captain would say "Attention all guests and crew. We have a very serious fire. We need you to help fighting it. Please help us by throwing overboard anything that's flammable. I'm serious. This includes curtains, paintings, cupboards, your beds, minibars, carpets and even your luggage. The only exception is lifevests which you should put in the hallway. Also please help other guests to do the same in their cabins".

 

It would be a bit costly, and a lot of trees planted to make up for the environmental damage done, but always less than losing lives or the ship. An average ship, having like 1000 crew and 2000 guests working hard to strip the ship to almost bare metal should be able to stop any fire?

 

Everything used in the Construction, and furnishing of a Cruise ship has to be either fireproof, or flame retardant. I don't believe the scenario you presented would ever happen, even with a major fire.

[Son of a son of a ...]

Chengkp75 - re: your user ID. I get the "Cheng" as Chief Engineer, but what's "kp75"?

[chengkp75]

Everything used in the Construction, and furnishing of a Cruise ship has to be either fireproof, or flame retardant. I don't believe the scenario you presented would ever happen, even with a major fire.

 

While to a large extent you are correct, that cannot be a blanket statement. The requirements are that the accommodations either have a sprinkler fire suppression system or fire retardant furnishings. Usually there is a mix of fire retardant and non, along with the sprinkler.

[FM]

On the Breakaway last year the stupid idiots next door opened the balcony dividers between their room and their neighbours room (their friends) using their own tool. Sadly they then opened the one between their balcony and ours and thought it was hilarious.

 

...

 

That is a total breach of your "personal" security - it's unfortunate that it happened to you. It's a matter of respect for your fellow passenger ... it's always "amusing" to see how they react when their own personal space is invaded but they have no qualm about doing the same to others.

 

It can be hard at times to fathom why some people think they are "above" the rules ... granted sometimes the rules does not make sense to us ... but unless we're privy to their policies and procedures, it does not give a person the right to circumvent them.

 

I'm sure there are people who leave their balcony doors unlocked unaware that there may be an ability of the stateroom next to you bypassing the balcony divider to gain access. After all, who would think of such a thing happening at sea ...

 

Buut there should be no reason though why a divider should be opened up next to a couple/family that you do not know. It's a lack of respect for their privacy and their enjoyment of their own balcony.

 

We've been on cruises where we had the divider opened up (by staff) - it's a great perk when you are traveling with others that you know. We've been on cruises with adjoining staterooms which is similarly enjoyable. Unfortunately we've also been on a cruise where the combined balcony passengers "exuberant enjoyment" is impacting the other passengers around them and on the deck above and below.

 

Travelling nowadays just isn't that simple anymore ...

[StolidCruiser]

And please, for the record, know that I am not condoning any action that puts yourself or others at risk.

 

I initiated the topic because I had read things before and was curious as to Norwegian's response to it when noticed. At the time, I assumed that the policy was as much about laziness as it was safety.

 

Yet you continue to ignore the facts provided to you because it contradicts what you want to do but are not permitted.

 

Ascribing the policy as something "lazy" demonstrates your ignorance, entitlement and self-centered perspective that prevents your comprehension.

 

Continue doing whatever you want because nothing anyone here says will enlighten you.

Edited July 30, 2016 by StolidCruiser

[All-ready2cruise]

Personal Security is as much a pax right/concern as a fire. While it's obvious that a fire would have a much larger and much more devastating impact, imagine Cloudyrain's experience. Wow, just wow, that anyone thinks this is not important. Why is it ok for anyone to be able to open those partitions, other than ship's crew?

 

I really don't understand why NCL has not done something to ensure the balcony partitions cannot be opened with a knife... what's with that?

[roger001]

I just jumped into this last page. However, either it is permitted...or it is NOT permitted. If it is permitted, your cabin steward will do it for you. If it is NOT permitted, he/she will not (should not). You, the guest, just need to follow the rules, yes or no. When you board the ship, ask the hotel director. He/she will be able to tell you the correct answer for that ship.

[stickey_mouse]

Yet you continue to ignore the facts provided to you because it contradicts what you want to do but are not permitted.

 

Ascribing the policy as something "lazy" demonstrates your ignorance, entitlement and self-centered perspective that prevents your comprehension.

 

Continue doing whatever you want because nothing anyone here says will enlighten you.

 

Another psychic who knows exactly what my mind is thinking, congratulations!

 

Who says I am ignoring any facts? Please cite to such examples.

 

And if you read it carefully, you'd see that I thought the policy was a result of laziness before reading the helpful responses to this thread. Why might I have thought this? Because RCL and Carnival, who have a much higher percentage of market share (and more ships), both allow the opening of balcony dividers (as does Disney).

 

Oh, and finally, I do not feel self-entitled whatsoever, and I'm certainly not ignorant. Please save your name calling for your private life.

[AmazedByCruising]

Star Princess is one, Carnival Ecstasy, Carnival Splendor, Carnival Triumph, Grandeur of the Seas, to mention a few that come to the top of my head. And far more important than trying to strip away flammable items (most of which are fire retardant anyway), is not breaching a fire zone boundary. Even if a fire gets a good hold on one zone, and essentially guts that zone, if you can contain it within the fire zone boundary, and cool the boundary bulkheads, you will save the ship. The Star Princess fire was so bad because the fire jumped the zone boundaries at the balconies, which is why the zones have since been extended out to include the balconies.

 

Again my English is failing :o By "a cruise ship disaster caused by fire" I meant casualties and sinking ships. Not a fire in the engine room that was quickly extinguished causing just minor inconviences. For instance, I knew about Triumph's "poop cruise" that must have been a less than pleasant experience but I wouldn't consider that a disaster.

 

Still, apparently there have been fires where people did die and at least one ship that did sink. I didn't know that.

 

When the crew cannot extinguish the fire immediately, I can see that fire zones are the first line of defense to prevent further trouble, but they could fail as well. For instance, pressing a button to close a door must be hard when you know it would mean certain death for some crew or guests inside that zone, while you'd just enhance the odds for the rest of the ship. I wonder how such situations are described in the procedures, and how you could possibly enforce those procedures.

 

The inventory cannot be that fire resistant because without fuel any fire stops instantly and the only fuel available on a ship is the inventory (apart from diesel of course). The report fshagan linked to about Star Princess shows pictures of burned stuff that could easily have been thrown overboard. Burned matrasses for instance, and the furniture on the balconies that at the time didn't need to be fire resistant because balconies were considered "open deck space". While that is fixed, I've seen pictures of about people sleeping on their balconies, installing hammocks, putting out flags, etc. It's not that hard to imagine a scenario similar to Star Princess where are large group would decorate their balconies enough to make one long fuse crossing every zone that was designed without having football fans in mind.

 

The first line of defense seems to work pretty well, but if it fails (and Murphy's law says it will sometime because it could, and in this case he has been proven right already) I'm still thinking that a second one, throwing overboard any potential fuel should be able to stop any fire.

[bbryan5]

It's fairly easy to open yourself, a few good smashes to the lock mechanism with a blunt object (blow dryer, champagne bottle, sock full of pennies) and that sucker pops right open! Enjoy!

[chengkp75]

Again my English is failing :o By "a cruise ship disaster caused by fire" I meant casualties and sinking ships. Not a fire in the engine room that was quickly extinguished causing just minor inconviences. For instance, I knew about Triumph's "poop cruise" that must have been a less than pleasant experience but I wouldn't consider that a disaster.

 

Still, apparently there have been fires where people did die and at least one ship that did sink. I didn't know that.

 

When the crew cannot extinguish the fire immediately, I can see that fire zones are the first line of defense to prevent further trouble, but they could fail as well. For instance, pressing a button to close a door must be hard when you know it would mean certain death for some crew or guests inside that zone, while you'd just enhance the odds for the rest of the ship. I wonder how such situations are described in the procedures, and how you could possibly enforce those procedures.

 

The inventory cannot be that fire resistant because without fuel any fire stops instantly and the only fuel available on a ship is the inventory (apart from diesel of course). The report fshagan linked to about Star Princess shows pictures of burned stuff that could easily have been thrown overboard. Burned matrasses for instance, and the furniture on the balconies that at the time didn't need to be fire resistant because balconies were considered "open deck space". While that is fixed, I've seen pictures of about people sleeping on their balconies, installing hammocks, putting out flags, etc. It's not that hard to imagine a scenario similar to Star Princess where are large group would decorate their balconies enough to make one long fuse crossing every zone that was designed without having football fans in mind.

 

The first line of defense seems to work pretty well, but if it fails (and Murphy's law says it will sometime because it could, and in this case he has been proven right already) I'm still thinking that a second one, throwing overboard any potential fuel should be able to stop any fire.

 

Well, we can agree to disagree about the degree of a disaster. Anytime you have a ship in the open ocean without power for days (Splendor and Triumph), that's a disaster. The Ecstasy and Grandeur could have been disasters as the after section of the ship was involved in both fires, public spaces and all.

 

The major source of fuel that you are forgetting is the one that is everywhere on the ship: paint. Furnishings will go up very quickly, just like in a house fire, but it is the structure that keeps feeding the fire, and in this case the "structure" is the paint and the various materials used in the construction of the ship.

 

Now, fire screen doors that separate fire zones are not like the watertight doors that you see in naval movies where they dog it down and condemn those within to death. Fire screen doors, first off, are automatically closed, so no one is "pushing the button", and they can still be opened by anyone inside the fire zone, but there will be crew assigned to the door, whose only duty is to ensure that the door remains closed or closes after someone exits, and that no one not on the emergency squads goes into the fire zone. There are crew assigned to each and every fire screen door on the ship, and they will remain on station regardless of whether the doors are closed or open in their zone. Remember, the fire teams will be within the fire boundary, so they will need to enter and exit to replenish their breathing air tanks.

 

And finally, in an emergency, the absolute last thing you would want is to have the passengers, who are your primary responsibility leaving the muster locations where they are accounted for, and "herded" to be ready to get off the ship, and send them where ever on the ship to try to throw flammables overboard.

[triptolemus]

When the crew cannot extinguish the fire immediately, I can see that fire zones are the first line of defense to prevent further trouble, but they could fail as well. For instance, pressing a button to close a door must be hard when you know it would mean certain death for some crew or guests inside that zone, while you'd just enhance the odds for the rest of the ship. I wonder how such situations are described in the procedures, and how you could possibly enforce those procedures.

 

The inventory cannot be that fire resistant because without fuel any fire stops instantly and the only fuel available on a ship is the inventory (apart from diesel of course). The report fshagan linked to about Star Princess shows pictures of burned stuff that could easily have been thrown overboard. Burned matrasses for instance, and the furniture on the balconies that at the time didn't need to be fire resistant because balconies were considered "open deck space". While that is fixed, I've seen pictures of about people sleeping on their balconies, installing hammocks, putting out flags, etc. It's not that hard to imagine a scenario similar to Star Princess where are large group would decorate their balconies enough to make one long fuse crossing every zone that was designed without having football fans in mind.

 

The first line of defense seems to work pretty well, but if it fails (and Murphy's law says it will sometime because it could, and in this case he has been proven right already) I'm still thinking that a second one, throwing overboard any potential fuel should be able to stop any fire.

 

You have a vivid and active imagination. It is unnecessary for you to try to rationalize situations and conditions for which you have no training or experience.

[AmazedByCruising]

You have a vivid and active imagination. It is unnecessary for you to try to rationalize situations and conditions for which you have no training or experience.

 

I'm not trying to tell how to run a ship, if that's your impression. I know my knowledge is tiny. Yet this site has extremely friendly, knowledgeable people who are willing to answer even my weirdest questions for which I'm really grateful.

 

The reason to extend my questions to a bit extreme side is that I get real answers. "How much is corkage on ship X" is a lot less interesting than "Since when do ships charge corkage, how much would corkage increase onboard revenue, why not exclude passengers who have a beverage card". Questions like that got me a lot more information, while I know nothing about beverages or the hospitality business at all.

[AmazedByCruising]

Well, we can agree to disagree about the degree of a disaster.

 

That's a simple agree. :)

 

The major source of fuel that you are forgetting is the one that is everywhere on the ship: paint. Furnishings will go up very quickly, just like in a house fire, but it is the structure that keeps feeding the fire, and in this case the "structure" is the paint and the various materials used in the construction of the ship.

 

I doubt that very much. A regular cabin would need let's say 10 liters of paint, before drying. Even if it's 50, there's not enough energy in that to sustain a fire, let alone setting fire to the next cabin. I don't think you can get a painted wall to burn using a blow torch even if you wanted to.

 

Fire screen doors, first off, are automatically closed, so no one is "pushing the button", and they can still be opened by anyone inside the fire zone, but there will be crew assigned to the door, whose only duty is to ensure that the door remains closed or closes after someone exits, and that no one not on the emergency squads goes into the fire zone.

 

OK, that's nice. I thought someone had to push "the button".

 

 

And finally, in an emergency, the absolute last thing you would want is to have the passengers, who are your primary responsibility leaving the muster locations where they are accounted for, and "herded" to be ready to get off the ship, and send them where ever on the ship to try to throw flammables overboard.

 

The nice thing about emergencies on a ship is that they seem to take hours (in sharp contrast to a plane). I've seen a compilation video about Costa Concordia that had a passenger ask for a drink, while the crew was busy taking care of the bottles. The crew nor the guests were panicking at all.

 

So I think there's a rather long time window where you could use the help of passengers before they should go to their muster station, but crew throwing out furniture might be enough as well.

[All-ready2cruise]

Wow, who are you trying hang here, yourself? The circumstances of any emergency will determine the steps needed to ensure the highest survival rate. I sure hope you're never in charge of an emergency, I'd much prefer Chengpk75 be in charge.... :cool:

[AmazedByCruising]

Wow, who are you trying hang here, yourself? The circumstances of any emergency will determine the steps needed to ensure the highest survival rate. I sure hope you're never in charge of an emergency, I'd much prefer Chengpk75 be in charge.... :cool:

 

So would I.

[chengkp75]

That's a simple agree. :)

 

 

 

I doubt that very much. A regular cabin would need let's say 10 liters of paint, before drying. Even if it's 50, there's not enough energy in that to sustain a fire, let alone setting fire to the next cabin. I don't think you can get a painted wall to burn using a blow torch even if you wanted to.

 

 

 

OK, that's nice. I thought someone had to push "the button".

 

 

 

 

The nice thing about emergencies on a ship is that they seem to take hours (in sharp contrast to a plane). I've seen a compilation video about Costa Concordia that had a passenger ask for a drink, while the crew was busy taking care of the bottles. The crew nor the guests were panicking at all.

 

So I think there's a rather long time window where you could use the help of passengers before they should go to their muster station, but crew throwing out furniture might be enough as well.

 

The cabin walls and ceilings that you see are only part of the picture. These are not structural components, so there is painted structural steel behind the scenes.

 

And actually, you are completely misunderstanding the Concordia disaster. The reason there was so much confusion and panic, and any loss of life at all, at the later stages of the evacuation is that the muster was not called early enough. And as I've said, every crew member has a duty assigned for an emergency, and none should be taken from those duties to throw things overboard.

 

While there will be time after a fire is detected when only the fire teams are involved (the code bravo stage), it is the duty of the on-scene commander (generally the chief officer or staff chief engineer) to determine and advise the Captain when he feels that the problem has reached a stage where the passengers should be removed from danger by calling for the muster. This is the purpose of the passenger muster stations, to get everyone together and counted so that the fire teams and the teams assigned to clear spaces know whether or not they need to search for people. At this point, the fire or emergency has risen from a minor situation to a serious situation.

 

I'm not sure how much data you are basing your statement that "nice thing about emergencies on a ship is that they seem to take hours", but I can assure you that things can and will go to hell in a heartbeat.

 

I agree with you that furnishings can fuel a fire, but most will go up quickly and not sustain a fire for long periods. I've seen a film where a single candle is set down on an upholstered chair in a "typical" cabin mock-up, and within 3 minutes, the temperature in the cabin has reached 600*C and the atmosphere flashes over (explodes). However, this cabin mock-up does not have a sprinkler in it, and the heat absorbed by the sprinkler water turning to steam (let alone the steam displacing the oxygen from the fire) is immense, and can keep even flammable furnishings from continuing to burn.

 

Let me ask a question. Do the firefighters in your community have the residents re-enter a burning building to throw furnishings out the windows to possibly slow the spread of the fire? I don't think so. In my experience, shore side firefighters will not even work to remove combustibles until the fire is extinguished and they are moving/removing things to look for lingering hot spots.

[mrs and mrs]

Post 67.

I'm sorry to say, your statement about paint, is totally wrong.

Most cabins will have layers of paint, upwards of 10,after dry-docking and repainting.

 

Once these go up it is like an inferno, in a very confined space, the heat is intense.

 

Screw up a sheet of news-paper light it and chuck it in your oven at home, once its ablaze open the door and stick your hand in if you can. Not that I would encourage you to do so, its just an example.

 

How do I know this, I was a firefighter on a naval vessel.

When there is a fire onboard,the first mission is containment,usually done by 3 man teams.

Imagine 2 men crouched, with hoses, and one behind them crouched and holding their neck area by their collars.

Team member1 Job direct fire fighting hose.

Team member2 Job Direct water-wall fighting hose.(a nozzle that sprays horizontally and vertically, thus providing protection for rest of team.

Team member3 Job to direct 1 and 2,helping and identifying,hot spots, flare-ups and making sure all don't get burnt to death.

 

This is all done in heavy equipment and usually with a DCBA (damage control breathing apparatus)

Its slow work.

So imagine a cabin ablaze, you cant even get,2 members in side by side, so water-wall shuffles in, then hose2,then controller. Now all 3 are in a blazing oven.

They have to push, yes push the fire outwards and away, always towards the balcony.

You don't just go in and spray water around, thats the worst thing to do.

Shooting water, into a blaze intensifies the problem scattering fire everywhere.

It has to be attacked at the base and pushed, out and away.

That's just one cabin.

A lot of people forget about what is behind bulk-heads and decks.

Wiring,insulation,etc,etc.'A fire can burn on a ship for weeks, then flare-up again at the drop of a hat.

Sorry for the big rave,will now stand-down to more experience.:):)

Edited July 31, 2016 by mrs and mrs
spelling

[Lulubelle45]

Ill be on the Pearl soon and will ask to open the partition to our family next door. We have those enclosed like balconies on Deck 8 so it would be nice to converse without having to yell around the side. Unfortunately our cabins dont adjoin and there are times, like am coffee or nightcaps where we are all out on the balconies

[fshagan]

How do I know this, I was a firefighter on a naval vessel.

 

<snip!>

 

Sorry for the big rave,will now stand-down to more experience.:):)

 

First, thanks for your service.

 

Secondly, your voice joins Chengkp75's as one that stands out because it has experience and knowledge on its side.

 

I imagine both of you trained and drilled on how to perform your duties in a fire at sea. I have not, and probably will not. That makes you guys the experts.

 

As to the captain organizing the passengers into effective combustible throwing volunteers it would simply never work. People are clueless on vacation and for every one that helped ten would hinder the efforts of the trained and professional crew members.

[mrs and mrs]

First, thanks for your service.

 

Secondly, your voice joins Chengkp75's as one that stands out because it has experience and knowledge on its side.

 

I imagine both of you trained and drilled on how to perform your duties in a fire at sea. I have not, and probably will not. That makes you guys the experts.

 

As to the captain organizing the passengers into effective combustible throwing volunteers it would simply never work. People are clueless on vacation and for every one that helped ten would hinder the efforts of the trained and professional crew members.

 

Thank-you for your kind comments.I am no expert and would defer always to chengs knowledge and experience.Mine and my 2 guys lives would have been in my hands, our lives would have been in someone like chengs hands and so on,and so on.

Just a little insight,it is amazing fighting a living thing(fire).

With the water-wall,if you are doing your job right,you are in more danger off being scolded,by hot evaporating steam and water,hitting the wall and dripping down your arms and neck.

Volunteers throwing combustibles overboard,lol,they would be reduced to molten plastic and liquid fire and toxic fumes in an instant.

Remember all those plastic PVC deck furniture,guess what they are made of.

Main ingredient OIL.

Ill bow out now.

P/S the real heroes in a ship fire are the passengers who don't panic and do the right thing.

LOVe to all xoxoxo.

[sparks1093]

The cabin walls and ceilings that you see are only part of the picture. These are not structural components, so there is painted structural steel behind the scenes.

 

And actually, you are completely misunderstanding the Concordia disaster. The reason there was so much confusion and panic, and any loss of life at all, at the later stages of the evacuation is that the muster was not called early enough. And as I've said, every crew member has a duty assigned for an emergency, and none should be taken from those duties to throw things overboard.

 

While there will be time after a fire is detected when only the fire teams are involved (the code bravo stage), it is the duty of the on-scene commander (generally the chief officer or staff chief engineer) to determine and advise the Captain when he feels that the problem has reached a stage where the passengers should be removed from danger by calling for the muster. This is the purpose of the passenger muster stations, to get everyone together and counted so that the fire teams and the teams assigned to clear spaces know whether or not they need to search for people. At this point, the fire or emergency has risen from a minor situation to a serious situation.

 

I'm not sure how much data you are basing your statement that "nice thing about emergencies on a ship is that they seem to take hours", but I can assure you that things can and will go to hell in a heartbeat.

 

I agree with you that furnishings can fuel a fire, but most will go up quickly and not sustain a fire for long periods. I've seen a film where a single candle is set down on an upholstered chair in a "typical" cabin mock-up, and within 3 minutes, the temperature in the cabin has reached 600*C and the atmosphere flashes over (explodes). However, this cabin mock-up does not have a sprinkler in it, and the heat absorbed by the sprinkler water turning to steam (let alone the steam displacing the oxygen from the fire) is immense, and can keep even flammable furnishings from continuing to burn.

 

Let me ask a question. Do the firefighters in your community have the residents re-enter a burning building to throw furnishings out the windows to possibly slow the spread of the fire? I don't think so. In my experience, shore side firefighters will not even work to remove combustibles until the fire is extinguished and they are moving/removing things to look for lingering hot spots.

 

We had to go to general quarters on our aircraft carrier because lagging on a bulkhead caught fire from welding taking place on the other side of the bulkhead. A fire watch had been posted but unfortunately was in the wrong compartment due to misreading the ship's deck plan. The smoke from the fire was so intense that the at sea fire party could not isolate it so the repair locker officer recommended that the ship go to general quarters. One of the few times that a shipboard emergency had me even a little nervous.