Are gratuities getting excessive or am I mean?

[Chunky2219]

Crew members have put their lives on the line while in the practice of their duties. How do you put a price on that?

On that basis, being a police officer, teacher, fireman, medic, military type, ice cream salesman (risk of falling in the freezer), road construction worker, snow plough driver, etc. etc. would be worth a king's ransom.

 

I know it looks dangerous when that guy is outside the buffet restaurant cleaning the windows but honestly, that rope will work just fine if the ship suddenly lurches while in port and he falls out of the cradle. Even the guy in the Santa Clause costume who climbs the funnel once a year is pretty safe.

 

The bottom line is that we all take the job that gives us the best income/life balance for where we come from, where we choose to live, what aspirations we have for the future and what sacrifices and compromises we are prepared to trade. All the rest of this thread is just a debate about local attitudes toward either paying people properly or expecting them to rely on tips like some 19th century beggar.

 

 

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[BlueRiband]

On that basis, being a police officer, teacher, fireman, medic, military type, ice cream salesman (risk of falling in the freezer), road construction worker, snow plough driver, etc. etc. would be worth a king's ransom.

 

I know it looks dangerous when that guy is outside the buffet restaurant cleaning the windows but honestly, that rope will work just fine if the ship suddenly lurches while in port and he falls out of the cradle. Even the guy in the Santa Clause costume who climbs the funnel once a year is pretty safe.

 

The bottom line is that we all take the job that gives us the best income/life balance for where we come from, where we choose to live, what aspirations we have for the future and what sacrifices and compromises we are prepared to trade. All the rest of this thread is just a debate about local attitudes toward either paying people properly or expecting them to rely on tips like some 19th century beggar.

 

In that case you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to willingly pay higher fares for the crew to be paid properly. The people who are complaining about a lack of "deals" or that gratuities are "hidden fraud" are certainly not going to pay the difference just to be "socially responsible". They'll just go to P&O, Princess, or some other competitor.

 

Which is why Cunard ships are registered in Hamilton and not Southampton ever since The Equality Act 2010 went into effect. Had Cunard remained under GB registry the fares they would have to charge would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

[BigMac1953]

$250 actually sounds a bit low.

 

Remember, officers and engineers etc won't get the tips.

 

Not true.

 

ALL hotel staff, including the officers, share the tips.

 

A friend of mine is a retired P & O and Cunard senior officer and they both operate the exact same system.

 

Stewart

[Chunky2219]

In that case you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to willingly pay higher fares for the crew to be paid properly. The people who are complaining about a lack of "deals" or that gratuities are "hidden fraud" are certainly not going to pay the difference just to be "socially responsible". They'll just go to P&O, Princess, or some other competitor.

 

Which is why Cunard ships are registered in Hamilton and not Southampton ever since The Equality Act 2010 went into effect. Had Cunard remained under GB registry the fares they would have to charge would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

I'm sorry old bean, but you can't have the penny and the bun, as my old Gran used to say. Your position suggest that we either pay:

 

a) A realistic price....... or

b) An entirely unrealistic price, on to which we knowingly accept that gratuities will be added to bring it up to the same price........... or

c) The unrealistic price and then miss the tips, which we pretty much all agree is jolly bad form.

 

The result of option c) is that X% of people will scratch the gratuities, meaning that wages need to be made up anyway, which will come as higher gratuities for the rest of us or marginally higher fares for all. Therefore, an all inclusive price is eminently fairer for everyone including the crew. It's nonsense to suggest that people (or at least regular passengers,) don't factor in the cost of all the dross around the edges when they make their booking. And first time cruisers who don't read the small print will go away stung by the experience and may not wish to repeat it. Call me a cynic, but that's hardly great marketing strategy.

 

And no, if you want to go fishing for a spurious logic then the Equality Act 2010 is a complete red herring. The reason for the Hamilton registry is two-fold, depending on who you listen to. It was either to allow marriages to be performed at sea like all the other lines (not legal on the UK registry) or to dodge the more onerous legal and legislative implications of the UK. I personally prefer the more romantic first option, but you can take your pick. It most certainly wasn't so that the system of gratuities could be maintained.

 

It's all about keeping up with the US service model. As a native of the UK, the quintessential home of the class system, upstairs/downstairs and "I know my place", I'm tickled pink that it's the land of the free where the tipping culture is de rigeur whereas we just pay people properly in the first place. Which, by the way, makes a tip a very pleasant surprise in return for outstanding service, not something expected and grizzled about if not received.

 

 

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[Yoshikitty]

Whenever somebody wants to remove gratuities I say yes, they are indeed being mean.

 

Exactly how we see it

[Alanxx]

Exactly how we see it[/quote

 

I am sure Cunard will be delighted that people think it is wrong to complain about gratuities.... it will no doubt encourage Cunard to increase them.....here we come 20 dollars per day!!

One last observation......assuming the cabin steward knows that cabins 1,2,3,4,5 have agreed to the automatic addition of gratuities but cabin 6 has not...which cabin will get most of his attention?

[Salacia]

On that basis, being a police officer, teacher, fireman, medic, military type, ice cream salesman (risk of falling in the freezer), road construction worker, snow plough driver, etc. etc. would be worth a king's ransom.

 

I know it looks dangerous when that guy is outside the buffet restaurant cleaning the windows but honestly, that rope will work just fine if the ship suddenly lurches while in port and he falls out of the cradle. Even the guy in the Santa Clause costume who climbs the funnel once a year is pretty safe.

 

The bottom line is that we all take the job that gives us the best income/life balance for where we come from, where we choose to live, what aspirations we have for the future and what sacrifices and compromises we are prepared to trade. All the rest of this thread is just a debate about local attitudes toward either paying people properly or expecting them to rely on tips like some 19th century beggar.

 

 

.

 

Actually, Chunky, I was thinking of the crew member who died a few weeks ago in an accident aboard the Norwegian ship in Bermuda. Of course there have been other accidental deaths of crew members; this was only the most recent: http://bernews.com/2016/07/police-confirm-death-of-diogenes-carpio/

 

In terms of the other jobs you mentioned, where I live, they are paid substantially more than a crew member on a cruise ship, although I'm not sure how much the income of the ice cream salesman or the snow plough driver that you mentioned since I imagine that would depend at least partially on the weather where these people are employed:rolleyes:

 

Salacia

[BlueRiband]

Exactly how we see it[/quote

 

I am sure Cunard will be delighted that people think it is wrong to complain about gratuities.... it will no doubt encourage Cunard to increase them.....here we come 20 dollars per day!!

One last observation......assuming the cabin steward knows that cabins 1,2,3,4,5 have agreed to the automatic addition of gratuities but cabin 6 has not...which cabin will get most of his attention?

 

Since you asked I'll say it's cabins 1 through 5. He knows that cabin 6 will likely "forget" to leave any.

 

According to some anecdotal reports of QE2 in the 1980's (I'll have to take their word since I wasn't cruising then) passengers gave an average of $24 per day.

[bananavan]

Exactly how we see it[/quote

 

I am sure Cunard will be delighted that people think it is wrong to complain about gratuities.... it will no doubt encourage Cunard to increase them.....here we come 20 dollars per day!!

One last observation......assuming the cabin steward knows that cabins 1,2,3,4,5 have agreed to the automatic addition of gratuities but cabin 6 has not...which cabin will get most of his attention?

 

In your original post you gave us two choices. Most of us feel that the gratuities have not become excessive. So...........

[balf]

Not true.

 

 

 

ALL hotel staff, including the officers, share the tips.

 

 

 

A friend of mine is a retired P & O and Cunard senior officer and they both operate the exact same system.

 

 

 

Stewart

 

 

Since when have officers been classed as hotel staff? If a guy is a ships engineer what connection does he/she have to the hotel side of the ship?

 

David.

[balf]

The accident in Bermuda was just that, an industrial accident, tragic though any fatality is it didn't have anything to do with "putting themselves on the line", any more than an horrific incident in my locality recently where a worker was roasted to death in a resin curing oven.

 

No one referred to that in such terms, it was just a tragic accident caused by human error, which is the cause of virtually all industrial accidents.

 

David

Edited August 8, 2016 by balf

[Salacia]

The accident in Bermuda was just that, an industrial accident, tragic though any fatality is it didn't have anything to do with "putting themselves on the line", any more than an horrific incident in my locality recently where a worker was roasted to death in a resin curing oven.

 

No one referred to that in such terms, it was just a tragic accident caused by human error, which is the cause of virtually all industrial accidents.

 

David

 

David, I'm sorry to read of the tragic death of the worker in your area.

 

Personally, I believe that crew members do put themselves on the line at a lower rate of pay than many who also have risky jobs. For example, capnpugwash recently reported this from on board: "...Everything on the ship was shaken and one poor steward in the Room Service area had a large metal item fall on his head, he is seriously ill in the Medical Centre and remains unconscious..."

 

 

No doubt there are those that believe stewards & staff shouldn't receive gratuities (or some other reason for not tipping), and it is their prerogative to remove the Hotel & Dining charge. But in answer to the OP's question, yes, I think that is a mean thing to do - just my opinion, as it was requested.

 

Salacia

[Pennbank]

In that case you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to willingly pay higher fares for the crew to be paid properly. The people who are complaining about a lack of "deals" or that gratuities are "hidden fraud" are certainly not going to pay the difference just to be "socially responsible". They'll just go to P&O, Princess, or some other competitor.

 

Which is why Cunard ships are registered in Hamilton and not Southampton ever since The Equality Act 2010 went into effect. Had Cunard remained under GB registry the fares they would have to charge would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

 

P&O Britannia is Southampton Registered . prices seem the same as their other ships.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Pennbank

[BigMac1953]

Since when have officers been classed as hotel staff? If a guy is a ships engineer what connection does he/she have to the hotel side of the ship?

 

David.

 

Hi David

 

It's all hotel staff.

 

Apparently, that's not how it started, but over the years, each upper layer in turn demanded to be included, so they simplified it and included everybody (apart from bar staff) in the "Hotel" side.

 

That comes from a senior engineer recently retired, who, of course, got no tips.

 

Stewart

[Adammara]

P&O Britannia is Southampton Registered . prices seem the same as their other ships.

 

But the rest of the fleet are registered in Bermuda! How long before Britannia is registered there too?

[insanemagnet]

One last observation......assuming the cabin steward knows that cabins 1,2,3,4,5 have agreed to the automatic addition of gratuities but cabin 6 has not...which cabin will get most of his attention?

 

If the steward is being logical, they should spend minimal time on 1 to 5 and devote all their resource to cabin 6.

 

On this cruise cabins 1 to 5 have already declared their intention, so there is nothing to be gained by doing anything above the minimum.

 

Cabin 6 on the other hand is an unknown quantity.

 

They may leave nothing, or they might hand over fistful of notes on the last day. If they are not going to leave anything, then nothing the steward does will change that. However if they are going to hand over a cash tip then the quality of service will likely determine how much that tip is.

 

Now obviously cabins 1 to 5 will not be happy and may remove the tips on the next cruise, but that won't have any impact on this steward.

[Solent Richard]

In that case you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to willingly pay higher fares for the crew to be paid properly. The people who are complaining about a lack of "deals" or that gratuities are "hidden fraud" are certainly not going to pay the difference just to be "socially responsible". They'll just go to P&O, Princess, or some other competitor.

 

Which is why Cunard ships are registered in Hamilton and not Southampton ever since The Equality Act 2010 went into effect. Had Cunard remained under GB registry the fares they would have to charge would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

 

And there was me thinking it was all to do with the ease in which to conduct on-board marriages.

[Solent Richard]

Here we go again. Everyone with a different theory about how the system works. The same claims "I always leave the tips in place and tip generously as well". Claims that adding them to the fare could not possibly work. Total confusion all round which I suspect may be the main idea.

 

And still people are visiting the purser to strike the things out.

 

I'm out of this thread.

 

David.

 

I have a suspicion that the people waiting in the purser queue are not the ones saying they leave the tips in place and tip generously in addition.

 

I've had daily gratuities paid as an added benefit for the past several years. It might be because I book while aboard.

 

I've visited the Reception Desk on many occasions though never to have the 'gratuities' removed.

 

More likely to enquire if anyone had handed my reading glasses in from the night before.

 

I wonder what perceived queue category I come under?

 

As a slight aside. Has anyone wondered why some regular Cunard passengers are often blessed with upgrades?

 

God forbid that there may be any favouritism shown.

 

:eek::eek:

[woodyren]

In that case you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to willingly pay higher fares for the crew to be paid properly. The people who are complaining about a lack of "deals" or that gratuities are "hidden fraud" are certainly not going to pay the difference just to be "socially responsible". They'll just go to P&O, Princess, or some other competitor.

 

Which is why Cunard ships are registered in Hamilton and not Southampton ever since The Equality Act 2010 went into effect. Had Cunard remained under GB registry the fares they would have to charge would put them at a competitive disadvantage.

 

As GUT stated earlier some cruise lines (P&O, Carnival, Princess)hav included tips into their fares when cruising in/to/from Australia.

 

The cost have not risen much higher than normal (despite the arguments about taxes etc forcing them up disproportionately) and they still seem to be able to crew the ships (so I must assume that the wages have risen to compensate lack of tips). With costs all being in the actual fare this means that all on board pay their share.

 

Great system that should be easy to introduce everywhere. I have yet to see any compelling argument to stop this becoming the norm. Most are based on the "when in Rome" type tradition. Sometimes tradition needs changing and the Australian model proves it can work.

Edited August 9, 2016 by woodyren

[mrs and mrs]

If the steward is being logical, they should spend minimal time on 1 to 5 and devote all their resource to cabin 6.

 

On this cruise cabins 1 to 5 have already declared their intention, so there is nothing to be gained by doing anything above the minimum.

 

Cabin 6 on the other hand is an unknown quantity.

 

They may leave nothing, or they might hand over fistful of notes on the last day. If they are not going to leave anything, then nothing the steward does will change that. However if they are going to hand over a cash tip then the quality of service will likely determine how much that tip is.

 

Now obviously cabins 1 to 5 will not be happy and may remove the tips on the next cruise, but that won't have any impact on this steward.

 

Now that's clever thinking,what can we call it Reverse ????,

I like your outside the box thinking.:):)

 

never been on an Aus/Nz cruise where the crew is un-happy.

And yes we do tip grats included or not.

Edited August 9, 2016 by mrs and mrs

[Aussieflyer]

......

 

never been on an Aus/Nz cruise where the crew is un-happy.

And yes we do tip grats included or not.

 

Perhaps the correct situation is that the crew 'appear' to enjoy their jobs to the passengers. Who really knows what they feel. It's like all service industries except the pressure is even greater to look happy! No doubt a lot are very happy and content but I bet there are some for whom the whole job is the pits.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Aussieflyer

[woodyren]

No doubt a lot are very happy and content but I bet there are some for whom the whole job is the pits.

 

Sounds like where I work.

 

Crazy how most people seem to worry about service personal but don't seem to give a rats about the sweat shop employees that make their Nikes.

 

Many people give up a lot to earn a living but happily at least the crew ship employees make a conscious decision to take on their duties and conditions of employment.

Edited August 9, 2016 by woodyren

[mrs and mrs]

Perhaps the correct situation is that the crew 'appear' to enjoy their jobs to the passengers. Who really knows what they feel. It's like all service industries except the pressure is even greater to look happy! No doubt a lot are very happy and content but I bet there are some for whom the whole job is the pits.

 

Concur,good point.:)

[balf]

. For example, capnpugwash recently reported this from on board: "...Everything on the ship was shaken and one poor steward in the Room Service area had a large metal item fall on his head, he is seriously ill in the Medical Centre and remains unconscious..." Salacia

 

That is another workplace accident. The steward was in no way putting himself on the line when the object fell on his head, any more than if a similar thing had happened ashore.

 

Your incredible New York firemen, they put their lives on the line on 9/11 and undoubtedly do on many other occasions daily. It's wrong to equate one with the other.

 

IMO anyway.

 

Regards David.

[Ray66]

I've had daily gratuities paid as an added benefit for the past several years. It might be because I book while aboard.

 

The US travel agent I am currently trawling through to see the 2018 cruises, is offering paid gratuities so I expect Cunard are just matching that.

 

I've had quotes while on board and have never been offered anything for booking on board so have just gone home and booked with a TA at a cheaper price.