Are gratuities getting excessive or am I mean?

[Jacqueline]

It's not going to change. I will say it again. I am talking about Cunard, not other brands.

In fact I suggested earlier that the poster go to a line with gratuities included if that was a source of so much discomfort.

BlueRiband's points elaborate on this conversation in terms of the difficulty of implementation. Which is why it's not going to happen.

It has been discussed on the other carnival brand boards , specifically Princess, in my experience. It's been 17 years. And people from down under have been making the same complaints FOR SEVENTEEN YEARS. And the system hasn't changed. The only changes I may have heard of is that cruises down under , geared to that market,under include tips as that is the local custom. Removing your tips, so far hasn't changed the system. Expressing your displeasure hasn't yielded the desired results. Comment cards and online complaints, same.

[Chunky2219]

................If the tips are rolled into the cruise price, then it is commissionable, which means that the TA gets more, and all things being equal, the staff less.

And yet, with Celebrity I can pay in advance for gratuities at a small discount via my UK TA. Methinks it's simpler than you might believe.

 

 

.

[Olliesmum]

Changing to an entirely different system of crew compensation - which is what would happen if tips were rolled into the fare - would require negotiation with all of the maritime unions involved. Not that that cannot be done, but it would take years to get agreement with all of the parties involved. Then Cunard is left with the problem of how to appear price competitive on similar itineraries.

 

 

You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?!

 

The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like.

[BlueRiband]

You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?!

 

The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like.

 

Yes, the International Transport Workers' Federation.

[Salacia]

To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up?

[GUT2407]

To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up?

 

It's up to them, as is what I do about mine.

[Aussieflyer]

Yes, the International Transport Workers' Federation.

 

My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Aussieflyer

[Salacia]

It's up to them, as is what I do about mine.

 

Yes, it is.

 

Just that those who remove the H&D charge currently face no deleterious effects since other passengers pick up the slack.

 

BTW, experienced cruisers from various countries tip on cruise ships, despite their local custom back home. Tipping is a practice that has been in place since passengers first sailed on ships.

[Normandie_Nostalgic]

As always when debating this sticky topic of tips, we are totally in the dark.

 

But logic suggests that if indeed the tip pool is the source of much of the crew’s pay, then Cunard and the other shipping lines cannot afford to leave that essential funding to the vagaries of individual passengers and their personal or national tipping habits. In case the tip pool would be insufficient to cover the crew salaries, the crew still needs to get paid, and Cunard would have to chip in to make good the shortfall, as it already does in Australian waters.

 

As long as passengers play along docilely footing the bill and being subject to an infect moral blackmail, the system will not change. The worst part is that the blackmail is based on the false premise, that poor deserving staff will not get paid at all if we withdraw from the levy. Of course they will, how could Cunard get away not paying the staff?

 

Therefore, all passengers have to do to force the industry to get rid of that pesky tipping policy is to starve the tip pool and force Cunard and others to chip in. If they want to restore their margins, they will have to reflect the extra cost in their pricing structure, like any sensible business would do.

[BlueRiband]

My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however.

 

All three Cunard ships have an agreement in place, as can be verified here.

 

 

As always when debating this sticky topic of tips, we are totally in the dark.

 

But logic suggests that if indeed the tip pool is the source of much of the crew’s pay, then Cunard and the other shipping lines cannot afford to leave that essential funding to the vagaries of individual passengers and their personal or national tipping habits. In case the tip pool would be insufficient to cover the crew salaries, the crew still needs to get paid, and Cunard would have to chip in to make good the shortfall, as it already does in Australian waters.

 

As long as passengers play along docilely footing the bill and being subject to an infect moral blackmail, the system will not change. The worst part is that the blackmail is based on the false premise, that poor deserving staff will not get paid at all if we withdraw from the levy. Of course they will, how could Cunard get away not paying the staff?

 

Therefore, all passengers have to do to force the industry to get rid of that pesky tipping policy is to starve the tip pool and force Cunard and others to chip in. If they want to restore their margins, they will have to reflect the extra cost in their pricing structure, like any sensible business would do.

 

I agree - there is no tipping on airlines. But you and I would have to convince our fellow passengers to pay substantially higher fares. I don't see this happening when we have threads asking for "best time to book" and other price conscious strategies.

Edited August 17, 2016 by BlueRiband

[Aussieflyer]

All three Cunard ships have an agreement in place, as can be verified here.

Thank you for the clarification BlueRiband. As I said in my post I had thought I had read it somewhere but am happy to be corrected.

[pepperrn]

Out of curiosity, genuine question.

Do those who regularly sail with the up-market/all inclusive/expensive "tipping included" lines (not the mass-market lines who occasionally sail "down under"), also tip their cabin steward or waiter anyway?

Even when advised there is no need at all to do so?

I've read that this is actively discouraged, or am I mistaken?

Maybe out of habit, as they are so used to tipping for everything back home?

(I've only ever sailed with Cunard so have no experience of other lines)

 

(I ask because there is a part of me that thinks that, if the "auto-tip" was rolled into the fare, and we all paid more, then within a very short time some passengers would start giving tips to cabin stewards or favourite waiters (out of habit?).

Some new passengers, not wishing to appear mean, would then start tipping as well, but wouldn't know how much to tip (too little/too much?).

So then the cruise lines would suggest a sensible daily amount, to help people out.

Then they'd offer to take care of this tipping issue with a daily fee, added to the passenger's on-board account, "so you don't have to worry about it".

They could call it the "Hotel and Dining Charge" :D ).

 

In some areas of the world tipping is almost unheard of, in others it is simply a fact of everyday life.

Cruiselines, sailing across international divides, have to deal, somehow, with both cultures it seems to me; tricky one.

 

OK, OK, I'll get my coat...

[balf]

To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up?

 

 

Are you comfortable being filched by those who don't?

 

David.

[GUT2407]

Out of curiosity, genuine question.

Do those who regularly sail with the up-market/all inclusive/expensive "tipping included" lines (not the mass-market lines who occasionally sail "down under"), also tip their cabin steward or waiter anyway?

Even when advised there is no need at all to do so?

I've read that this is actively discouraged, or am I mistaken?

Maybe out of habit, as they are so used to tipping for everything back home?

(I've only ever sailed with Cunard so have no experience of other lines)

 

(I ask because there is a part of me that thinks that, if the "auto-tip" was rolled into the fare, and we all paid more, then within a very short time some passengers would start giving tips to cabin stewards or favourite waiters (out of habit?).

Some new passengers, not wishing to appear mean, would then start tipping as well, but wouldn't know how much to tip (too little/too much?).

So then the cruise lines would suggest a sensible daily amount, to help people out.

Then they'd offer to take care of this tipping issue with a daily fee, added to the passenger's on-board account, "so you don't have to worry about it".

They could call it the "Hotel and Dining Charge" :D ).

 

In some areas of the world tipping is almost unheard of, in others it is simply a fact of everyday life.

Cruiselines, sailing across international divides, have to deal, somehow, with both cultures it seems to me; tricky one.

 

OK, OK, I'll get my coat...

 

I agree.

 

Which the system of having different arrangements depending on where the ship is sailing is probably a good idea.

[balf]

To try to answer Peppern's query Saga do make it clear that no extras tipping is expected, though staff are not bared from accepting if offered. This is exactly as with Cunard surely, given that many passengers give additional tips while leaving the auto ones in place. Saga are a British company and did not seem to encounter any problems with setting up the system.

 

By personal experience the staff seemed to be the happiest that I have seen on any ship, though whether this was because of the tipping policy I don't know, while many Cunard staff seem to be just the opposite.

 

David.

[Aussieflyer]

To give a partial answer to Pepperrn, on Princess in Australian waters where gratuities are included, we still usually give our cabin steward and waiter/barstaff if we have the same waiter or have had a particularly helpful bar member over the cruise.

On Silversea (which we have only done once) I think we may have given our butler and his offsider a little extra but I am not 100% sure of this.

We were on an Avalon cruise where we had a little 'chit' to put in the envelope to say our gratuities had been prepaid and we did not tip extra at all. There was one chit for the housekeeping staff and one for the CD (which annoyed me as he therefore was someone special).

Edited August 17, 2016 by Aussieflyer

[Olliesmum]

My understanding was that staff are hired through an third party agency and I thought I had read that they were not allowed to be unionised as part of this. I may be mistaken however.

 

Yes, sort of correct. They are not unionised as they are agency workers.

[BlueRiband]

Yes, sort of correct. They are not unionised as they are agency workers.

 

Please see post #110.

[Chunky2219]

To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up?

What if we all did it on every cruise? No-one would be "subsidised" by anyone else and in pretty short order it would all be included in the price. What a wonderful day that would be.

 

Even better, there would be an end to tipping threads. Surely a greater achievement than world peace or putting a a gender-neutral member of humanity on Mars. At least those dreams are possible and will happen one day. Tipping threads, I doubt. :rolleyes:

 

 

.

[Solent Richard]

You think that the crews from the Philippines and Eastern Europe are in a union?!

 

The reason Cunard changed the registration of their ships to Hamilton is so they can pay whatever they like.

 

And there was me thinking it was purely to do with making it easier to conduct wedding ceremonies.

 

Oh well.

[DreamflightPat]

And there was me thinking it was purely to do with making it easier to conduct wedding ceremonies.

 

Oh well.

You are right Solent Richard. I was told that was the reason for registering in Bermuda.

 

regards Pat

[Host Hattie]

You are right Solent Richard. I was told that was the reason for registering in Bermuda.

 

regards Pat

 

It may have been one of the reasons, it probably wasn't the only one. The ITF certainly doesn't think so.

[majortom10]

On our last cruise on QV the Commodore was asked about ship registration in his Q&A and he gave 2 reasons for it 1) so they can do weddings and 2) so that they were not constrained by workers conditions and pay if Cunard ships were registered in Southampton or the EU.

[Host Hattie]

That sounds more likely and good for him for being honest about it.

[resistk]

To those who remove their Hotel and Dining charge....Do you suggest all passengers remove the H&D Charge as you do, or are you comfortable being subsided by those who continue to pay up?

 

Tipping is optional that is why Cunard and other lines let you remove the tip there is no subsidy involved. No need to feel one way or the other about it; unlike a restaurant, no one is going to chase you down when you leave the ship.