NCL Discretionary charge! when does NCL say NO?

[pcur]

Perhaps this was one reason why they centralised their OBSC refund procedure to the Miami puzzle palace? They can monitor who the "repeat offenders" are and decide accordingly. Just a thought.

 

MIAMI PUZZLE PALACE I love it, and hope you don't mind if I plagiarize it for other CC boards! Too funny.

[suesings]

Lots of disappearing responses ... :cool:

 

I was thinking the same thing. What happened to the post showing was the removal of DSC form looks like and says?? That was EYE OPENING. Did CC remove it? Is it against the rules to post a cruise lines forms? I am so glad I saw it though as now I know that the people removing their DSC are doing it because the are saying their service was bad.

[SteveH2508]

MIAMI PUZZLE PALACE I love it, and hope you don't mind if I plagiarize it for other CC boards! Too funny.

 

I first heard it used to refer to the Ministry of Defence - feel free to plagiarize away!:D

[GUEST080219]

From experience you don't get on a list, or at least don't get a worse service, when you remove the DSC once.

The whole idea is weird because why should the staff treat you badly and risk missing on cash tips just because you filled out a form after your previous cruise. They are hard working, not stupid.

[RDC1]

exactly that is what high end stores do...Llbean stores do it and so does Nordstrom but again we are talking about a cruise line..i think eventually they will make it mandatory.

 

You won't see them make it mandatory until their comptition does and/or the US changes its financial reporting rule concerning tips (they must be optional for them to be able to be passed on to employees, wit out being considered to be revenue to the cruise line and salary to the crew).

[Até]

I haven't cruised on NCL yet but I would assume they have a loyalty program and people have a member number (like I have for RCCL and Carnival). I wonder if they mark down which "members" take back their tips? That way they could warn the room steward and others that have to serve those people. I know when I was a waitress and a notorious "non tipper" came in, we would all try to talk the hostess into not giving them to us :D:D

 

Never thought of this, great idea. They could give these passengers regular services, but not go above and beyond like some many of the crew members do.

 

Very possible it's already in the works. "Have you heard, the new key cards are talking." DSC removers might get their own color card.

[Warm-Water Diver]

Our sanitation workers are unionized pensioned city workers averaging $ 80,000 a year

 

That's like tipping your accountant or the train conductor or your bank manager or your grocery store manager

 

And before you say it....I will.....no I wouldn't do the sanitation workers job

 

Why? Because I don't have to as I have a different career

 

 

You say you are glad you are not cynical

 

I say I'm glad I'm not a bleeding heart and my kids are school loan free

 

And when you hand the dishwasher that cash tip I think they will just think you are a show off

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

X INFINITY! LOL

 

True story. I always joke with my college attending, student loan carrying son regarding the fact that I should have been a waste management worker instead of my current career. One of my best friends that I graduated with from HS is now currently retired and enjoying his full pension since he was age 43. That was 7 years ago!

 

While I continue to be in the workforce for at least another 15 years :(

[bjlaac]

I never thought of removing the daily service charge as a matter of practice mostly because we have been cruising for many, many years. We started when Holland America had an advertised no tipping policy. Even back then with might have thrown a few bucks to the waiters and stewards if we thought it was warranted.

 

As we began traveling other lines there was always a recommended amount for waiter, bus boy and steward that we gladly paid. That soon became voluntary prepaid gratuities which morphed into DSC with increases on a regular basis.

 

All of a sudden we were tipping deck hands and laundry staff and behind the scenes people all for our convenience of course. Then 15% and 18% gratuities were added as well to booze and specialty dining along with constant reminders to tip "extra" if you got good service and again for your convenience just add to your bill.

 

Well you know what, its completely out of hand and I second the idea to go back to cash tipping and removing the DSC because I have no doubt (also no proof) that NCL is grabbing all the cash for themselves and as others have pointed out paid their employees contracted amounts.

 

I don't tip dish washers, laundry personnel, garbage collectors and anyone else not customary in my country (good old USA). Whatever model NCL puts together is theirs, and until they make it mandatory or come clean with a detailed list of where all these charges go I'm no longer paying them. I'll tip who I want, as much as I want, with cash like I did before all of these "for your convenience" charges were created.

[Crusin6]

X INFINITY! LOL

 

 

 

True story. I always joke with my college attending, student loan carrying son regarding the fact that I should have been a waste management worker instead of my current career. One of my best friends that I graduated with from HS is now currently retired and enjoying his full pension since he was age 43. That was 7 years ago!

 

 

 

While I continue to be in the workforce for at least another 15 years :(

 

 

I know a retired NYC waste management worker and his wife who recently sold their suburban home and bought a high end condo in a great NYC neighborhood

 

They cruise frequently plus take courses at Columbia

 

Their kid graduated from a top Ivy League school too

 

 

Did he ever get tips? Hmmm...in NYC they pick up garbage overnight so it's anyone's guess

 

This guy is no slouch nor is his wife and you won't ever hear a "woe is me story from him"

 

 

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[Warm-Water Diver]

I know a retired NYC waste management worker and his wife who recently sold their suburban home and bought a high end condo in a great NYC neighborhood

 

They cruise frequently plus take courses at Columbia

 

Their kid graduated from a top Ivy League school too

 

 

Did he ever get tips? Hmmm...in NYC they pick up garbage overnight so it's anyone's guess

 

This guy is no slouch nor is his wife and you won't ever hear a "woe is me story from him"

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

My buddy has never mentioned receiving "any" tips and why would he. He's just doing his job and is well compensated. I don't get tips for doing my job.

 

On a side note and just stating fact: I have routinely picked up waste (both from my garbage collectors and nearby neighbors) that did not make it into the "hopper" on top of the waster delivery vehicles for years. If they were getting tips would it be "appropriate" to take away or remove the DSC/Tip-Pool :D

[mscdivina2016]

 

 

 

Well you know what, its completely out of hand and I second the idea to go back to cash tipping and removing the DSC because I have no doubt (also no proof) that NCL is grabbing all the cash for themselves and as others have pointed out paid their employees contracted amounts.

 

.

 

Want proof? How can they give free DSC as a perk? So the crew and all the behind the scenes are working for free?:D

[luvtheships]

Very possible it's already in the works. "Have you heard, the new key cards are talking." DSC removers might get their own color card.

 

 

Then the stewards and waiters will know by the color of the card that there is a real potential for that pax to hand them over some greenbacks directly!!!

 

Of course it could work the other way but I'm thinking the direct service crew will make out better.

 

Back room operations crew get a salary and rarely do they get cash handed to them anyway be it land or sea

 

At least I don't walk into the kitchen to tip the dishwasher.

 

 

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[suesings]

Then the stewards and waiters will know by the color of the card that there is a real potential for that pax to hand them over some greenbacks directly!!!

 

Of course it could work the other way but I'm thinking the direct service crew will make out better.

 

Back room operations crew get a salary and rarely do they get cash handed to them anyway be it land or sea

 

At least I don't walk into the kitchen to tip the dishwasher.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

I don't know, that person (cheng something) who used to work for NCL said that people removing the DSC was discussed in staff meetings. Since the form that people fill out to get back their DSC says they had bad service, I wonder if the cruise line asks them to name names so they can reprimand who their room steward and waiters were that gave them bad service? I didn't any other reason listed on the form to get one's DSC refunded besides bad service.

[luddite]

I know a retired NYC waste management worker and his wife who recently sold their suburban home and bought a high end condo in a great NYC neighborhood

 

They cruise frequently plus take courses at Columbia

 

Their kid graduated from a top Ivy League school too

 

 

Did he ever get tips? Hmmm...in NYC they pick up garbage overnight so it's anyone's guess

 

This guy is no slouch nor is his wife and you won't ever hear a "woe is me story from him"

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

 

The scam that the trash hauler union in NYC pulled is legendary.

Or criminal. Opinions vary.

[mscdivina2016]

Then the stewards and waiters will know by the color of the card that there is a real potential for that pax to hand them over some greenbacks directly!!!

 

Of course it could work the other way but I'm thinking the direct service crew will make out better.

 

Back room operations crew get a salary and rarely do they get cash handed to them anyway be it land or sea

 

At least I don't walk into the kitchen to tip the dishwasher.

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

Don't you think you should be able to? If it is auto tip for our convenience what if we don't want convenience? We do want to make sure the behind the scenes people do get it. So should we be given access to them?:D

[suesings]

My buddy has never mentioned receiving "any" tips and why would he. He's just doing his job and is well compensated. I don't get tips for doing my job.

 

On a side note and just stating fact: I have routinely picked up waste (both from my garbage collectors and nearby neighbors) that did not make it into the "hopper" on top of the waster delivery vehicles for years. If they were getting tips would it be "appropriate" to take away or remove the DSC/Tip-Pool :D

 

Growing up, my mom always made goodies for our garbage men and mailman for the holidays.

[luvtheships]

Don't you think you should be able to? If it is auto tip for our convenience what if we don't want convenience? We do want to make sure the behind the scenes people do get it. So should we be given access to them?:D

 

 

Nope I don't need access to the dishwashers

 

Don't tip them at home

 

Not planning to tip them at sea

 

 

Fwiw. I've always left dsc in place but I am considering removing it next cruise

 

Cash...not in excess though...to steward...because I know I'll get great service and he/she is worth it

 

Cash...if great service...to mdr

 

If the restaurant is just so so then no cash...because they get paid by Ncl ...and I'm not tipping if the mdr is not up to par service wise.

 

 

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[Jane Don]

Nope I don't need access to the dishwashers

 

Don't tip them at home

 

Not planning to tip them at sea

 

 

Fwiw. I've always left dsc in place but I am considering removing it next cruise

 

Cash...not in excess though...to steward...because I know I'll get great service and he/she is worth it

 

Cash...if great service...to mdr

 

If the restaurant is just so so then no cash...because they get paid by Ncl ...and I'm not tipping if the mdr is not up to par service wise.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

The staff would love you for it and I surmise that you will see an immediate increase in service level. People will be going out of their way to ensure your needs are met.

 

I tip my cabin steward $10 a day (for 1 adult and 2 kids), the kids club about $5 per day per kid, and $5 per dinner for our server. All this assumes exceptional service. If my water glass sits empty all meal or only one clean towel is left in the cabin I withhold. I tip bartenders and cocktail servers enough to ensure I don't have to wait, usually once a day or every other day with a fiver, depending on usage. Usually it is $30 a day total for the 3 of us. I only save a little money compared to DSC, but I believe my service level is much higher than those who do not tip cash.

 

Make no mistake about it, the staff is very happy to receive cash they don't have to share with NCL or their co-workers. They have told me so, but more importantly, show me with their attentiveness.

[Jana60]

It's a shame that people take advantage of them this way.

 

Sent from my SM-N910T using Forums mobile app

[RDC1]

Want proof? How can they give free DSC as a perk? So the crew and all the behind the scenes are working for free?:D

 

When NCL gives DSC as a perk, the money comes out of revenue and is transferred into the tip fund. The impact on the crew is zero (actually a bit of an improvement since all DSC is paid under the program, no passenger to request cancellation)

 

As I have said elsewhere. The way that you can be sure that the money is being paid to the crew is because the cruise line parent company lists on the US stock markets and therefore must comply with US financial reporting. As such money received as gratuities are neither treated as revenue, nor are payments treated as expense to the company. As far as the employees are concerned the money is not considered to be salary (which makes an impact as tips are taxed differently than salary in many countries).

 

The accounting is handled this was as long as the tips are optional, that they can be reduced or removed by the passengers.

 

The fact that NCL allows them to be removed suggests strongly that such funds are not being considered as revenue by the cruise line and are in fact being transferred in their entirety to the employees. If they did treat that money as revenue then they would have to reflect that in their 10q/10k filings since it would not be normal accounting practice. Also if they were bringing the money onto their books as revenue there would not be any reason to continue to allow people to remove the tips, as the accounting benefits would be gone.

[Jane Don]

When NCL gives DSC as a perk, the money comes out of revenue and is transferred into the tip fund. The impact on the crew is zero (actually a bit of an improvement since all DSC is paid under the program, no passenger to request cancellation)

 

As I have said elsewhere. The way that you can be sure that the money is being paid to the crew is because the cruise line parent company lists on the US stock markets and therefore must comply with US financial reporting. As such money received as gratuities are neither treated as revenue, nor are payments treated as expense to the company. As far as the employees are concerned the money is not considered to be salary (which makes an impact as tips are taxed differently than salary in many countries).

 

The accounting is handled this was as long as the tips are optional, that they can be reduced or removed by the passengers.

 

The fact that NCL allows them to be removed suggests strongly that such funds are not being considered as revenue by the cruise line and are in fact being transferred in their entirety to the employees. If they did treat that money as revenue then they would have to reflect that in their 10q/10k filings since it would not be normal accounting practice. Also if they were bringing the money onto their books as revenue there would not be any reason to continue to allow people to remove the tips, as the accounting benefits would be gone.

 

You are dead wrong. Daily Service Charges are just that, service charges. There is no line item for tips. It does not exist. Not on any filing anywhere. I challenge you to prove me wrong. There is a very good reason why the only place it is referred to as gratuities is when offered as a perk.

 

DSC is merely another revenue stream.

 

Do the math. Getaway - 3,969 pax * $13.50 = $53,581.50 per day DSC. Now Getaway has a crew of 1,640. If we conservatively assume 70% are in the DSC pool (probably closer to 40) we get 1148 crew members sharing 53,581.50 = $46.67 per pooled crew member per day.

 

You honestly believe that NCL is collecting this money and doling it out to staff on top of their salaries? It isn't happening.

[suesings]

I never thought of removing the daily service charge as a matter of practice mostly because we have been cruising for many, many years. We started when Holland America had an advertised no tipping policy. Even back then with might have thrown a few bucks to the waiters and stewards if we thought it was warranted.

 

As we began traveling other lines there was always a recommended amount for waiter, bus boy and steward that we gladly paid. That soon became voluntary prepaid gratuities which morphed into DSC with increases on a regular basis.

 

All of a sudden we were tipping deck hands and laundry staff and behind the scenes people all for our convenience of course. Then 15% and 18% gratuities were added as well to booze and specialty dining along with constant reminders to tip "extra" if you got good service and again for your convenience just add to your bill.

 

Well you know what, its completely out of hand and I second the idea to go back to cash tipping and removing the DSC because I have no doubt (also no proof) that NCL is grabbing all the cash for themselves and as others have pointed out paid their employees contracted amounts.

 

I don't tip dish washers, laundry personnel, garbage collectors and anyone else not customary in my country (good old USA). Whatever model NCL puts together is theirs, and until they make it mandatory or come clean with a detailed list of where all these charges go I'm no longer paying them. I'll tip who I want, as much as I want, with cash like I did before all of these "for your convenience" charges were created.

 

I thought the DSC was used to bring some of the traditionally lowest paid workers up to a better standard?

[suesings]

You are dead wrong. Daily Service Charges are just that, service charges. There is no line item for tips. It does not exist. Not on any filing anywhere. I challenge you to prove me wrong. There is a very good reason why the only place it is referred to as gratuities is when offered as a perk.

 

DSC is merely another revenue stream.

 

Do the math. Getaway - 3,969 pax * $13.50 = $53,581.50 per day DSC. Now Getaway has a crew of 1,640. If we conservatively assume 70% are in the DSC pool (probably closer to 40) we get 1148 crew members sharing 53,581.50 = $46.67 per pooled crew member per day.

 

You honestly believe that NCL is collecting this money and doling it out to staff on top of their salaries? It isn't happening.

 

I believe what the guy who worked for NCL said (his name was cheng.. something).

[fshagan]

You won't see them make it mandatory until their comptition does and/or the US changes its financial reporting rule concerning tips (they must be optional for them to be able to be passed on to employees, wit out being considered to be revenue to the cruise line and salary to the crew).

 

I don't know where people get this. If a company collects revenue, from fares or service charges, and it is counted as taxable revenue, then they deduct both salary and tips they give employees as an expense, reducing their taxable income.

 

But that doesn't even apply to any US based cruise line with ships registered in foreign countries.

 

They don't pay any US federal income taxes on any ship based or ship related revenue including fares, service charges, alcohol sales, etc.

 

Look at the "Risks" section in their annual reports for confirmation; cruise lines are exempted from paying US income tax under section 883 of the tax code.

 

There is no tax advantage to NCLH to pay their employees in salary, tips or wampum. They don't pay US corporate income taxes on their ship-based income.

 

NCLH is incorporated in Bermuda, a qualified foreign country which grants an equivalent exemption, and NCLH meets the publicly traded test

because its ordinary shares are primarily and regularly traded on the Nasdaq Global Select Market, which is considered to be an established securities

market in the U.S. Therefore, we believe that NCLH qualifies for the benefits of Section 883.

 

We believe and have taken the position that substantially all of NCLH’s income, including the income of its ship-owning subsidiaries, is properly

categorized as shipping income, and that we do not have a material amount of non-qualifying income.

From http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/ABEA-5WOY6H/2917576715x0x884900/6B6BAA0E-51C0-46CE-A981-6D3CA348E1C0/NCLH_Annual_Report_2015.pdf, page 31.

[fshagan]

I don't tip dish washers, laundry personnel, garbage collectors and anyone else not customary in my country (good old USA).

 

Actually, when you tip a waitress you are also tipping the busser, the hostess and sometimes even the dish washer. Maybe the guy behind the bar too.

 

So here's a somewhat sarcastic response, not really aimed at you, but at the general concept of tipping in restaurants in the US that is actually no different than the pooled gratuities / service charge on NCL:

 

/sarcasm on

 

In order for the waiter or waitress to continue to get good service from the hostess and busser, and the bar tender if she grabbed a drink for you, she or he splits the money you gave her with other people. The NERVE! I wouldn't stand for it! If the waiter or waitress can't get good service she should pay it out of her own pocket.

 

You should immediately start stiffing the waitress and giving her only 10%, then look up the busser and give her or him 5%, and the hostess and give him or her 5%. Ask if the dishwasher gets some of the tip and adjust accordingly. If you bought a drink divide it up again and give the waitress 8%, the bar tender 2%, the hostess 5% and the busser 5%.

 

You might bring little yellow envelopes to put the cash in, and at the end of the meal, seek each of them out and give them the envelope. That way you are paying only the person you know served you. Because some waiters and waitresses SPLIT THEIR TIPS AT THE END OF THE SHIFT AND DO NOT SEGREGATE BASED ON THE CUSTOMERS EACH OF THOSE PEOPLE SERVED!

 

It is an outrage!

 

/sarcasm off (no offense intended)

 

 

NCL has a method for us to pay all the gratuities automatically without calculating .50 per day per person in our party for the assistant bread waiter in the dining room. Or $1 per day per person in our party for the head waiter, etc. I remember having 8 envelopes to fill out and leave tips for people at the end of cruises.

 

The tip deniers of that era simply ate in the buffet on the final night, and the main dining room was always nice and quiet.