NCL Discretionary charge! when does NCL say NO?

[GUT2407]

Perhaps this was one reason why they centralised their OBSC refund procedure to the Miami puzzle palace? They can monitor who the "repeat offenders" are and decide accordingly. Just a thought.

 

Offenders?:confused::confused:

 

An interesting word:eek:

[GUT2407]

I'm pretty sure they would need to fill more cabins before that happens! It's beyond absurd to even insinuate that NCL would tell someone they can't sail anymore for removing a service charge that they allow the passengers to remove :rolleyes:

 

You don't think logic works on tipping threads do you?:eek::cool:

[sfaaa]

Whether any of us like it or not NCL allows passengers to do this. I don't like it, you don't like it, but they do.

 

Allowing something doesn't mean you can repeatedly abuse a policy. When this happens, a business would usually draw the line and cut off the abuser.

[Flamencacha]

Many interesting points on this thread.. All businesses are on the lookout for scammers. I would not be at all surprised that NCL would blacklist anyone who repetitively request there service fees requested.

 

Other businesses do it like rental car agencies. Hotels etc.

 

The option is placed as to guarantee a certain expected level of service.

 

If you can afford to cruise you can afford the service fees.

 

By all means always point out unacceptable service.

 

 

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[sparks1093]

The DSC doesn't tip anyone.

 

Most or all of it ends up in NCL's pocket.

 

They pay these workers less than minimum wage, and then use the DSC to pay the difference.

 

It is also my strong belief that removing it doesn't affect staff pay.

 

You've been shown to be incorrect on the other thread. NCL doesn't keep the service charge, it is paid out to the crew. While this may have the overall affect of reducing NCL's expenses this is not the same as NCL keeping the service charge as corporate revenue.

[sparks1093]

Allowing something doesn't mean you can repeatedly abuse a policy. When this happens, a business would usually draw the line and cut off the abuser.

 

NCL lets passengers adjust the service charges for no reason at all, that's their policy. How can that be abused? It's up to them to change it, not us. They most certainly could require a service connected issue (the current FAQ requests one, but does not require one), but then if they did do you really think that those that remove the service charges couldn't make up a service connected issue to justify the removal? In my mind that would be far worse because then an individual crew member could suffer because of it.

[pokerpro5]

The DSC doesn't tip anyone.

 

Most or all of it ends up in NCL's pocket.

 

They pay these workers less than minimum wage, and then use the DSC to pay the difference.

 

It is also my strong belief that removing it doesn't affect staff pay.

 

You've been shown to be incorrect on the other thread. NCL doesn't keep the service charge, it is paid out to the crew. While this may have the overall affect of reducing NCL's expenses this is not the same as NCL keeping the service charge as corporate revenue.

 

 

I wasn't shown to be incorrect anywhere.

 

This is basic mathematics, but I will break it down for you since you apparently do not understand.

 

There is a $614/month MINIMUM WAGE for each employee on NCL ships, as required by maritime law.

 

Therefore, for each crew member, NCL is responsible to pay them at least $614 out of their operational expenses.

 

NCL does NOT pay the DSC-pooled crew $614 per month, as verified by chengkp95 who worked at NCL for awhile. (I can quote his post saying this if you want.)

 

Instead, they pay LESS than $614 per month to these crew members, and they take a large portion of the DSC to make up for it, so the crew members end up getting the required $614 (plus some extra).

 

Therefore, this means NCL is KEEPING the DSC, because the DSC is allowing them to keep money which otherwise would have been required to go to the crew.

 

Let me put it in an even simpler way for you to understand:

 

Let's say I pay my housekeeper (at home, not on NCL) $100 to clean for me, and I guaranteed her that daily rate when she comes to my house.

 

At the same time, I post an impassioned message here that my housekeeper needs back surgery, and I'd love it if people opened up their hearts and wallets and donated some money to her to afford it.

 

You then send me $120 because you feel bad for her, and expect I will give it to her for the back surgery.

 

Now that I have your $120, I realize that I no longer have to pay my housekeeper anything to clean my house from my own pocket, and just hand her your $120 for the day's work. I tell her, "Oh, and that extra $20 came from sparks1093".

 

Then I come out here and tell you that I used $100 of your $120 to pay her normal cleaning fee (which otherwise I would have paid myself), and then gave her your extra $20 for her back.

 

I still gave all of your $120 to her, right?

 

But would you cheated? Would you feel that I stole $100 from you?

 

I'm sure you would. And you'd be right.

 

That's exactly what the NCL (and other major lines) are doing with the DSC.

 

Get it now?

Edited September 26, 2016 by pokerpro5

[Swells1]

I bet you are speaking from frist-hand experience...Hilton sent you that letter? :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

 

Funny, but no. I've worked for Hilton for almost 20 years.

[pokerpro5]

I have also suspected that the Miami office is "tracking" DSC removers, but not to ban them from the ships. I don't believe that will happen.

 

However, it might allow them to compile a database of undesirable customers, which might then exclude them from promotional offers, as well as make NCL less likely to "make right" any kind of dispute which might occur in the future.

 

For example, let's say you take a cruise and your toilet doesn't work for most of the cruise. We've seen some stories of that out here, and I'm sure it's a nightmare to spend 7 days that way.

 

NCL has known to be very frugal onboard regarding compensation for that situation -- usually like a dinner for 2 at Cagney's and $100 OBC, which is obviously an insulting amount of compensation for such a major, unfixed problem.

 

Anyway, when you get back home, you can normally call the Miami office and plead your case for a bigger refund -- and often get it.

 

However, if the Miami office sees you are a habitual DSC remover, they might be less inclined to help you, and instead give you the curt, "Sorry, there's nothing further we can do", as they probably don't want you back.

 

While the above is just all conjecture, it's not at all far-fetched.

 

Clearly the Miami office wants control over knowing who does and doesn't remove the DSC, as well as the reasoning for each removal. There's some reason for that. I suppose it's also possible that the form to Miami is simply an extra hurdle they put in your way to prevent you from removing it, but I think it goes deeper than that.

 

How much deeper? No idea.

 

But I doubt anyone would get outright banned for DSC removal, especially since many people remove the DSC not for sinister purposes, but rather because they wish to see their "tips" distributed differently.

[sparks1093]

I wasn't shown to be incorrect anywhere.

 

This is basic mathematics, but I will break it down for you since you apparently do not understand.

 

There is a $614/month MINIMUM WAGE for each employee on NCL ships, as required by maritime law.

 

Therefore, for each crew member, NCL is responsible to pay them at least $614 out of their operational expenses.

 

NCL does NOT pay the DSC-pooled crew $614 per month, as verified by chengkp95 who worked at NCL for awhile. (I can quote his post saying this if you want.)

 

Instead, they pay LESS than $614 per month to these crew members, and they take a large portion of the DSC to make up for it, so the crew members end up getting the required $614 (plus some extra).

 

Therefore, this means NCL is KEEPING the DSC, because the DSC is allowing them to keep money which otherwise would have been required to go to the crew.

 

Let me put it in an even simpler way for you to understand:

 

Let's say I pay my housekeeper (at home, not on NCL) $100 to clean for me, and I guaranteed her that daily rate when she comes to my house.

 

At the same time, I post an impassioned message here that my housekeeper needs back surgery, and I'd love it if people opened up their hearts and wallets and donated some money to her to afford it.

 

You then send me $120 because you feel bad for her, and expect I will give it to her for the back surgery.

 

Now that I have your $120, I realize that I no longer have to pay my housekeeper anything to clean my house from my own pocket, and just hand her your $120 for the day's work. I tell her, "Oh, and that extra $20 came from sparks1093".

 

Then I come out here and tell you that I used $100 of your $120 to pay her normal cleaning fee (which otherwise I would have paid myself), and then gave her your extra $20 for her back.

 

I still gave all of your $120 to her, right?

 

But would you cheated? Would you feel that I stole $100 from you?

 

I'm sure you would. And you'd be right.

 

That's exactly what the NCL (and other major lines) are doing with the DSC.

 

Get it now?

 

What you describe is no different than what happens on other cruise lines or in land based establishments. Our waitress at dinner last night is guaranteed by law to receive the hourly minimum of $9.60 an hour, but because she receives tips her employer only has to pay her something like $4.60 an hour. As long as the tips she receives brings her up to $9.60 an hour her employer needs to pay her no more than $4.60 an hour. If in any week she doesn't receive enough in tips to bring her to $9.60 an hour than the employer has to make up the difference.

 

NCL does not keep any of the service charge as corporate income but the service charges do work to reduce the amount of out of pocket expense that NCL is paying out.

 

You are incorrect in your assertion that NCL is "pocketing" the service charges.

 

(And do not forget that there are crew members who receive the service charges who are making more than the minimum because of seniority, etc.).

Edited September 26, 2016 by sparks1093

[Warm Breezes]

What you describe is no different than what happens on other cruise lines or in land based establishments. Our waitress at dinner last night is guaranteed by law to receive the hourly minimum of $9.60 an hour, but because she receives tips her employer only has to pay her something like $4.60 an hour. As long as the tips she receives brings her up to $9.60 an hour her employer needs to pay her no more than $4.60 an hour. If in any week she doesn't receive enough in tips to bring her to $9.60 an hour than the employer has to make up the difference.

 

NCL does not keep any of the service charge as corporate income but the service charges do work to reduce the amount of out of pocket expense that NCL is paying out.

 

You are incorrect in your assertion that NCL is "pocketing" the service charges.

 

My thoughts exactly. Thank you for saving me the time to type them :D.

[mscdivina2016]

And if they allow it for any reason why would they penalize a passenger for adjusting or removing the charges?

 

I was under the impression, at least here in FL that if it was mandatory they would have to include that amount in any advertised cruise, making the cost of the cruise appear higher than other cruise lines and land based trips??:confused:

 

Other than fee's and taxes I think you have to be able to purchase it for that advertised rate.

[NMLady]

... NCL doesn't keep the service charge, it is paid out to the crew. While this may have the overall affect of reducing NCL's expenses this is not the same as NCL keeping the service charge as corporate revenue.

 

Bingo! You've got it!!

[luvtheships]

They can exclude me from any promos they want to offer me directly because....

 

My TA offers me the same promos plus a bigger obc. He won't refuse my business.

 

 

If you are saying Ncl will send me a personal offer that is geared only to me and not the thousands of other Ncl pax well then I can assure you it will not be an offer for a rock bottom midship low inside that I have been booking for the last several cruises through my TA

 

Ncl would never spend the time wooing me and my TA would never refuse my booking so I'm not worried about be blacklisted for removed dsc and tipping those I have direct contact with in cash when warranted

 

 

Also my TA is not terribly thrilled that I keep booking Ncl and Ive told home just 1 or 2 more Ncl cruises ...to use my FCC...then I'm changing it up a bit. Lol

 

 

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Edited September 26, 2016 by luvtheships

[sparks1093]

I was under the impression, at least here in FL that if it was mandatory they would have to include that amount in any advertised cruise, making the cost of the cruise appear higher than other cruise lines and land based trips??:confused:

 

Other than fee's and taxes I think you have to be able to purchase it for that advertised rate.

 

Probably holds true in most jurisdictions. However I don't think defining when something can be reduced or removed (such as for a service issue) makes the payment "mandatory" (but I'm not an attorney nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I'm not 100% sure of that).

[fshagan]

I have also suspected that the Miami office is "tracking" DSC removers, but not to ban them from the ships. I don't believe that will happen.

 

Retailers have been using this for a few years for serial returners.

 

The cruise lines are just now starting to use more sophisticated "demand pricing" models, a reason you see the wild swings in fare prices now as they get it dialed in. I can see a future where NCL and other cruise lines quote the brochure price and when you log in you get the deal price .... that is a special price just for you. It is technologically possible now.

 

So I might get a cruise advertised for $500 a day for the special price of $100 per day because I have never reduced the daily service charge. A "serial reducer" might get the same cruise for $113.50 per day.

 

This would also remove all objections to the daily service charge as those who object on principle would have their cruise fare include it. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying they want any way?

[luvtheships]

Retailers have been using this for a few years for serial returners.

 

 

 

The cruise lines are just now starting to use more sophisticated "demand pricing" models, a reason you see the wild swings in fare prices now as they get it dialed in. I can see a future where NCL and other cruise lines quote the brochure price and when you log in you get the deal price .... that is a special price just for you. It is technologically possible now.

 

 

 

So I might get a cruise advertised for $500 a day for the special price of $100 per day because I have never reduced the daily service charge. A "serial reducer" might get the same cruise for $113.50 per day.

 

 

 

This would also remove all objections to the daily service charge as those who object on principle would have their cruise fare include it. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying they want any way?

 

 

So when my TA tells me the price it will be $113.50?

 

And when my TA tells my friends their price in the same exact cabin next to mine it will be $100?

 

Hmmm

 

Funny thing though in the past I price my cruise out without logging in to my Ncl account and price it out before calling my TA who gives me the exact same price and perks plus an obc

 

I also price out cruises just for fun with logging in to my Ncl acct and it's the same price when I'm not logged in

 

Fwiw I've never removed dsc but based on what I've gathered both here and from research...I just might remove it on my upcoming cruise and tip the steward and mdr for their personalized service.

 

I'm not real worried about cruises down the road as I'm exploring other lines now

 

 

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[Flamencacha]

So when my TA tells me the price it will be $113.50?

 

And when my TA tells my friends their price in the same exact cabin next to mine it will be $100?

 

Hmmm

 

Funny thing though in the past I price my cruise out without logging in to my Ncl account and price it out before calling my TA who gives me the exact same price and perks plus an obc

 

I also price out cruises just for fun with logging in to my Ncl acct and it's the same price when I'm not logged in

 

Fwiw I've never removed dsc but based on what I've gathered both here and from research...I just might remove it on my upcoming cruise and tip the steward and mdr for their personalized service.

 

I'm not real worried about cruises down the road as I'm exploring other lines now

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

 

 

 

If your experience with NCL, is so pitiful, why even bother with your FCC?

 

I would let it go. That's me, I wouldn't remove the service fees either.

 

But to each their own. Happy cruising.

 

 

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[Jane Don]

Amazon tried dynamic pricing once. Using analytics they provided each consumer a different price based on everything from past purchases to google searches. Imagine, I only buy highly discounted items and always shop for the best price so they offer me a book for $12.50. But you are very busy and do not care to invest the time to research and a few dollars isn't worth it for you. Your history and internet behaviour support this so the same book is offered to you for $19.99.

 

They were forced to revert back to the conventional pricing model when there was a full scale revolt. People were furious - especially loyal customers who were big spenders.

 

Cruise pricing is already dynamic based on a different set of criteria. Offering the same product, at differing price points, at the same time, to different customers will garner the same response it did for Amazon (IMO).

[SuiteCruiser]

What you describe is no different than what happens on other cruise lines or in land based establishments. Our waitress at dinner last night is guaranteed by law to receive the hourly minimum of $9.60 an hour, but because she receives tips her employer only has to pay her something like $4.60 an hour. As long as the tips she receives brings her up to $9.60 an hour her employer needs to pay her no more than $4.60 an hour. If in any week she doesn't receive enough in tips to bring her to $9.60 an hour than the employer has to make up the difference.

 

NCL does not keep any of the service charge as corporate income but the service charges do work to reduce the amount of out of pocket expense that NCL is paying out.

 

You are incorrect in your assertion that NCL is "pocketing" the service charges.

 

(And do not forget that there are crew members who receive the service charges who are making more than the minimum because of seniority, etc.).

 

It's a good analogy, the only difference is if she makes $20/hour, she's keeping the difference.

 

NCL is paying their staff a flat rate of salary and collecting the DSC, using some of it to top off salary, some for parties, welfare programs. The waiter at NCL is not getting the extra tips, they're only getting the flat agreed to salary every month. They can keep any cash tips, so can make a bit more.

 

It's a revenue stream for them and they are using it to cover their expenses, some are human resource expenses, so some of it is going where it should. Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter as long as the staff member is paid and happy.

Edited September 26, 2016 by SuiteCruiser

[NLH Arizona]

Retailers have been using this for a few years for serial returners.

 

The cruise lines are just now starting to use more sophisticated "demand pricing" models, a reason you see the wild swings in fare prices now as they get it dialed in. I can see a future where NCL and other cruise lines quote the brochure price and when you log in you get the deal price .... that is a special price just for you. It is technologically possible now.

 

So I might get a cruise advertised for $500 a day for the special price of $100 per day because I have never reduced the daily service charge. A "serial reducer" might get the same cruise for $113.50 per day.

 

This would also remove all objections to the daily service charge as those who object on principle would have their cruise fare include it. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying they want any way?

I think you might be on to something here. It is obvious that NCL moved the removal/reduction process to corporate so that they can keep track and if they go to demand pricing, they could easily add the DSC to those serial removers who remove it for no reason. I hope NCL is thinking this way, because it really would be the right way to go, especially since it will penalize those that remove the DSC. Edited September 26, 2016 by NLH Arizona

[sparks1093]

It's a good analogy, the only difference is if she makes $20/hour, she's keeping the difference.

 

NCL is paying their staff a flat rate of salary and collecting the DSC, using some of it to top off salary, some for parties, welfare programs. The waiter at NCL is not getting the extra tips, they're only getting the flat agreed to salary every month. They can keep any cash tips, so can make a bit more.

 

It's a revenue stream for them and they are using it to cover their expenses, some are human resource expenses, so some of it is going where it should. Bottom line is that it doesn't really matter as long as the staff member is paid and happy.

 

Not all crew members receive the minimum, some receive more based on seniority. The crew receiving extra tips is in the same position as the waitress netting $20 an hour, it's extra income for them. Yes, the service charges allow NCL to pay less out of corporate revenue for crew members in the service charge pool but I seriously doubt that NCL is actually keeping any of the service charge as corporate income (and the other cruise lines also enjoy the benefit of paying less to the tipped staff because they receive a portion of the daily tips, but none of those tips become corporate revenue).

[sparks1093]

I think you might be on to something here. It is obvious that NCL moved the removal/reduction process to corporate so that they can keep track and if they go to demand pricing, they could easily add the DSC to those serial removers who remove it for no reason. I hope NCL is thinking this way, because it really would be the right way to go, especially since it will penalize those that remove the DSC.

 

I think it's obvious that NCL moved the removal process to corporate to counteract the number of passengers who were removing the service charges in protest of all of the changes that were going on, thinking that by adding a step to the process it would discourage such removals.

[biker@sea]

Recently i read a thread where someone can remove those charges as many times as they want to just because they are not mandatory which makes me wonder two things;

 

1) how long until NCL catches on and decides to not grant these people their petition because of the amount of times they ask for it.

 

2) i wonder if NCL bans them from their fleet completely if it gets out of hand :eek:

 

I used to work in retail many many years ago in a particular high end store. I remember 2 people that always returned merchandise and ask for refunds until the store manager decided not to grant them their refunds and in particular case banned him from the store entirely.

 

So I am wondering if NCL pays attention to these things! no flaming please just curious :D

 

Only one I remember getting ever getting banned was MA-COP .

 

Thats was some time long ago.

( can I even dare say the name )

.

Edited September 26, 2016 by biker@sea

[esm54687]

I think you might be on to something here. It is obvious that NCL moved the removal/reduction process to corporate so that they can keep track and if they go to demand pricing, they could easily add the DSC to those serial removers who remove it for no reason. I hope NCL is thinking this way, because it really would be the right way to go, especially since it will penalize those that remove the DSC.

 

Why penalize someone for something that is completely acceptable and honored by the company??

 

If the speed limit is 65mph and I regularly go 65mph but someone chooses to drive 55mph... should I get penalized by not allowing me to drive and the 55mph person gets rewarded with lower insurance premiums, lower gas prices, etc??

 

What about those who have the UBP?? Should a passenger who takes full advantage of the "Unlimited" get penalized by not having it offered on future cruises or maybe charged 22% while the passenger who has 2 drinks a day gets rewarded with a reduction to 15% ??

 

Maybe NCL can scan all your buffet items you take and then scan again all the items you didn't consume..... next cruise you might only be allowed 6 total items instead of the 28 you took and didn't consume.

 

My statement is not for or against removing the DSC however..... if allowed by a company then they best not penalize or discriminate.... maybe NCL allows 3 cruises to reduce DSC then require proof of Guest Services being engaged before DSC is refunded etc...