Does loyalty matter?

[villauk]

I understand that some from US and Canada are not aware of the issue and so I do understand

 

I'm also surprised that some regular US and Canadian CC posters are unaware of this as it's been highlighted on these boards on numerous occasions over the years, along with the policy change from allowing price drops (something that also used to happen).

 

One thing I believe that hasn't changed, though, is the T&C from when you initially agreed to/confirmed your acceptance of the booking ;). You sound like you are a researcher and certainly not a cruise novice (as you say, you are aware of other cruise lines that offer better pricing structures), so I'm quite surprised that you didn't enquire here first before confirming your X booking and save yourself all the hassle :confused:? I recall someone stating that you were active on other cruise social media sites too, did you ask the question on any of their boards prior to booking?

[DYKWIA]

UK has different T+Cs, which I believe can make some of the changes that can happen to those booking under US T+Cs not possible - to the benefit of UK bookers.

 

I think this recently came to light during the great Aqua Class water scandal - it was an advertised benefit that I believe US bookers had little redress with Celebrity over, not so with UK Bookers.

[BosoxI]

Hi - Thanks for your tips. I am going on my 1st cruise with Celebrity on Dec 11 on the Eclipse. I plan on booking a couple of cruises on board. It sounds like they give good perks to do it on board. I will try your ideas too. Thanks again.

 

 

DW and I are on that same cruise, as we have been since 2011. In the past we've booked B2Bs and last year we did three in a row, combining Aqua and suites. This year is going to be different, apparently. The prices on the Christmas cruise are outrageous, so unless something really changes, we'll do just one cruise in a suite and then disembark on December 21. We'll spend Christmas on land in Florida and be just as happy doing it. Then we'll return to Virginia for the New Year, much wealthier for the experience. I certainly don't fault X for getting as much as it can, but I don't care to participate anymore. The Eclipse 12/11 and 12/21 cruises are very similar which makes our decision even easier.

Edited October 24, 2016 by BosoxI

[richsea]

 

I will not book with them again because of their pricing policy to non NA customers, I aint throwing my money down a drain so that US and Canada customers can simply walk away. It is very easy to make these cheap points when you get the advantages.

 

 

 

 

I think it is unfair that those in the UK must pay a non refundable deposit. I also agree that the best way to voice your displeasure is with your wallet.

This may have been covered earlier, but is that picking policy true of all cruise lines in the UK (particularly US lines), or unique to Celebrity?

[Luvcrusn]

DW and I are on that same cruise, as we have been since 2011. In the past we've booked B2Bs and last year we did three in a row, combining Aqua and suites. This year is going to be different, apparently. The prices on the Christmas cruise are outrageous, so unless something really changes, we'll do just one cruise in a suite and then disembark on December 21. We'll spend Christmas on land in Florida and be just as happy doing it. Then we'll return to Virginia for the New Year, much wealthier for the experience. I certainly don't fault X for getting as much as it can, but I don't care to participate anymore. The Eclipse 12/11 and 12/21 cruises are very similar which makes our decision even easier.

 

We're on the Eclipse Cruise too, recheck the ChristmasCruise, they dropped alot, we were thinking about it, but ruled it out by of non-refundable air.

[villauk]

I think it is unfair that those in the UK must pay a non refundable deposit. I also agree that the best way to voice your displeasure is with your wallet.

This may have been covered earlier, but is that picking policy true of all cruise lines in the UK (particularly US lines), or unique to Celebrity?

 

I am yet to reserve any holiday, cruise or otherwise booked in the UK, where the deposits are refundable (it just doesn't happen over here). Some hotels do offer a cancellation policy for up to 24hrs prior to your stay, however, the cost is obviously more than booking the non refundable rate ;). The same goes for your 'any issue' insurance policies - not heard of over here - you have to abide by the T&C of the policy (and we are constantly reminded to check all the details to ensure one is sufficiently covered).

[AnOnymously]

I'm also surprised that some regular US and Canadian CC posters are unaware of this as it's been highlighted on these boards on numerous occasions over the years, along with the policy change from allowing price drops (something that also used to happen).

 

One thing I believe that hasn't changed, though, is the T&C from when you initially agreed to/confirmed your acceptance of the booking ;). You sound like you are a researcher and certainly not a cruise novice (as you say, you are aware of other cruise lines that offer better pricing structures), so I'm quite surprised that you didn't enquire here first before confirming your X booking and save yourself all the hassle :confused:? I recall someone stating that you were active on other cruise social media sites too, did you ask the question on any of their boards prior to booking?

 

I had no idea of Celebrity T/C's when I did the booking, I did not expect a returnabl;e deposit because that is not what UK cruisers and holiday bookers are used to. I booked this cruise because of one promotion the Jet Set Sail and assumed that it would be pretty much like most cruise lines. Yes we have cruised before but never run into price swings this early or so much, not keen on lines that do it after Final Payment, but I think most do.

 

So I am not a researcher unless I am in a position to need some information. Read the early posts I made on this subject, I did not even suspect that USA and Canada had returnable deposits.

 

I have no idea what the great Aqua scadal was about water but if it were about a bottle of water, it was only a storm in a glass anyway, what do they cost 50p?

 

I will do two things

1. Read and post on here because I want as much information about the cruise we are taking as possible viz the ship, dining, packages, Blu etc etc

2. Remind people of the issues faced by UK cruisers in this respect when that is part of a thread. Re-read this one and I did not introduce the subject, a poster brought it up!

 

I think this last helps UK people to understand what they are getting into if the want to sail with Celebrity and hopefully Celebrity still read these forums and it might just nudge them to change if they think the UK market is moving away from them. It is interesting to me that the newly introduced Jest Set Sail package is now not selling very well and there are many vacancies on what are very small aircraft flying to the Med from the UK. Maybe customers in the Uk are reading here and deciding to go elsewhere and stay with lines catering mostly for the UK market.

[villauk]

I had no idea of Celebrity T/C's when I did the booking

2. Remind people of the issues faced by UK cruisers in this respect

 

I think this last helps UK people to understand what they are getting into if the want to sail with Celebrity and hopefully Celebrity still read these forums and it might just nudge them to change if they think the UK market is moving away from them. It is interesting to me that the newly introduced Jest Set Sail package is now not selling very well and there are many vacancies on what are very small aircraft flying to the Med from the UK. Maybe customers in the Uk are reading here and deciding to go elsewhere and stay with lines catering mostly for the UK market.

 

I have been stating the differences for years on CC. Unfortunately, you didn't see the past posts on this matter prior to you booking. And that's usually the case, it's been happening for years, so no doubt will continue. It's not something new and X follow 'normal practice' for the UK market ;).

[AnOnymously]

I have been stating the differences for years on CC. Unfortunately, you didn't see the past posts on this matter prior to you booking. And that's usually the case, it's been happening for years, so no doubt will continue. It's not something new and X follow 'normal practice' for the UK market ;).

 

But the difference is that there lines which one would regard as UK users mostly that don't offer discriminatory packages elsewhere and I don't think they offer such massive price movements so far ahead. So perhaps Celebrity should follow UK practice in these too.

 

And as you can see just trying to rekindle those old flames of yours, some people might read before they buy!

Edited October 24, 2016 by AnOnymously

[teecee60]

 

I do not intend to have to pay $1400 more than their latest offer, which is what we were faced with. This might be a brilliant line onboard but its pricing policy is worse than being in a hurricane for the amount of turbulents.

 

So, think yourself lucky that they give you options if price drops happen, BUT NOT FOR UK and others.

 

So I will vote with my sea legs and put them into a cruise line that plays more fair and treats all its customers the same and also does not change prices by up to 30% a year before sailing.

 

That's not over the top it's not dropping my hard earned pounds down the celebrity black hole.

 

Celebrity MUST legally operate within multitudes of widely different consumer protection laws of countries all over the planet. :cool:

 

It is NOT Celebrity's regulations that UK residents loose their deposits, it is the UK government's regulations that make UK residents loose their deposits. :rolleyes:

 

Perhaps you should be voting for different representatives that will change UK consumer protection laws. ;)

 

Your pounds are dropping down a black hole created by UK government initiated consumer "protection" regulations.

Edited October 25, 2016 by teecee60

[The_Big_M]

Celebrity MUST legally operate within multitudes of widely different consumer protection laws of countries all over the planet. :cool:

 

It is NOT Celebrity's regulations that UK residents loose their deposits, it is the UK government's regulations that make UK residents loose their deposits. :rolleyes:

 

Really? Care to share exactly which law requires the loss of deposit? :rolleyes:

 

Just like people, cruise lines will try to do what is in their best interest. If the market accepts loss of deposit as standard, then Celebrity isn't going to be benevolent and hand them back.

[villauk]

But the difference is that there lines which one would regard as UK users mostly that don't offer discriminatory packages elsewhere and I don't think they offer such massive price movements so far ahead. So perhaps Celebrity should follow UK practice in these too.

 

And as you can see just trying to rekindle those old flames of yours, some people might read before they buy!

 

You didn't read it though, or your T&Cs.

 

Just to clarify, you do realise that P&O are owned by the Carnival Corporation? So they may be used mainly by UK cruisers, but are actually a US company. They also have non refundable deposits ;). Their price differences won't be as great as they are a cheaper brand, little like Thomson etc., and so their initial pricing is less ;). Additionally, they do not allow you to book in the US for say Princess sailings (another of the Carnival Group) and insist you book in the UK - I wonder why :rolleyes:?

[AnOnymously]

You didn't read it though, or your T&Cs.

 

Just to clarify, you do realise that P&O are owned by the Carnival Corporation? So they may be used mainly by UK cruisers, but are actually a US company. They also have non refundable deposits ;). Their price differences won't be as great as they are a cheaper brand, little like Thomson etc., and so their initial pricing is less ;). Additionally, they do not allow you to book in the US for say Princess sailings (another of the Carnival Group) and insist you book in the UK - I wonder why :rolleyes:?

I actually had lines like Fred Olsen in mind. Where did I say that ANY UK users line had non-refundable deposits. My contrast was that they charged the same to all and all had non-refundable deposits. Called fairness.

 

And I am not sure if Celebrity can take all of a deposit if rebooking the same cruise and same package.

 

It appears they are only allowed to take as much as they can show are their costs.

 

I endorse also that peeps keep saying it is against Govt regs to offer non-refundable deposits, will someone give me a reference on that to show that is true. Or please do not keep using it, because we in UK do not think it is true.

Edited October 25, 2016 by AnOnymously

[AnOnymously]

Uk regulations

Old term

'If the [consumer's] withdrawal from the expedition or cancellation is due to

events which are the [consumer's] own fault or wilful decision, the [consumer]

shall not be entitled to

recover any of the payments he or she has made under

the contract.'

New term

'If withdrawal...or cancellation is due to events which are the fault

or wilful

decision of the [consumer], [the supplier] shall be entitled to retain

as much of

the deposit or other payment as is needed to cover its reasonable costs and

losses caused by withdrawal. [The supplier] shall take all reasonable steps to

keep its costs and losses to a minimum.'

Edited October 25, 2016 by AnOnymously

[chemmo]

I actually had lines like Fred Olsen in mind.

 

And I am not sure if Celebrity can take all of a deposit if rebooking the same cruise and same package.

 

It appears they are only allowed to take as much as they can show are their costs.

 

I endorse also that peeps keep saying it is against Govt regs in UK, will someone give me a reference on that to show that is true. Or please do not keep using it, because we in UK do not think it is true.

 

Look, you didn't read your T/C....Celebrity (without legally needing to) refunded your deposit. Many of us in the UK simply book Celebrity, for what it is, a great product....If you don't like the T/C move on...Personally I for one (as a UK citizen) think this UK tangent has moved far from the Original Post...

 

I would not be a loyal Celebrity cruiser if I could not live with the T/C and did not find the product excellent.

Edited October 25, 2016 by chemmo

[AnOnymously]

This is actually the new legislation, which says to me that keeping a full £300 deposit when the same cabin on the same cruise was re-booked immediately is unfair

Excessive cancellation fees

 

Terms that allow the trader to take too much of your money if you back out of a contract can be unfair.

If you want to end a contract, a trader can claim for administration and marketing costs and for any work they had started and loss of profit but no more.

 

 

Still looking for those regulations that prevent non-returnable deposits

[The_Big_M]

Uk regulations

[/font]

 

Exactly.

 

It's sad when people are so certain, and so keen to blame, yet without any basis.

[AnOnymously]

Celebrity (without legally needing to) refunded your deposit.

 

They actually gave me a 'gesture of goodwill' which is not the same and others did not receive anything.

 

Having now found the Consumer Regulations in UK law that might be different.

[DYKWIA]

.....

 

Your pounds are dropping down a black hole created by UK government initiated consumer "protection" regulations.

 

Wrong.....I think

 

Our pounds dropping because we're leaving the EU, the EU partially helped create the framework by which UK legislation such as that being discussed here came about

[cle-guy]

Really? Care to share exactly which law requires the loss of deposit? :rolleyes:

 

Just like people, cruise lines will try to do what is in their best interest. If the market accepts loss of deposit as standard, then Celebrity isn't going to be benevolent and hand them back.

 

I do believe it is market forces allowing UK deposits (as well as other countries) to be held.

 

But the UK government Trading Standards certainly does uphold that right of the vendors to do so pretty clearly.

 

So it's certainly not a legal REQUIREMENT by any means that a crusie deposit is forfeited, it is the cultural norm so much so that there is advice on trading standards on the issue.

 

But one must consider a business operating in multiple cultures, tax jurisdictions under varying currencies has many variables involved in pricing decisions and booking rules. Cost of labor in UK is much higher than US shore side is, so keeping deposits adds to the till to cover some of that extra cost for operating in the UK as a small example.

 

Page 20: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284435/oft668.pdf

[DYKWIA]

I do believe it is market forces allowing UK deposits (as well as other countries) to be held.

 

But the UK government Trading Standards certainly does uphold that right of the vendors to do so pretty clearly.

 

So it's certainly not a legal REQUIREMENT by any means that a crusie deposit is forfeited, it is the cultural norm so much so that there is advice on trading standards on the issue.

 

But one must consider a business operating in multiple cultures, tax jurisdictions under varying currencies has many variables involved in pricing decisions and booking rules. Cost of labor in UK is much higher than US shore side is, so keeping deposits adds to the till to cover some of that extra cost for operating in the UK as a small example.

 

Page 20: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/284435/oft668.pdf

 

Not sure how accurate this link is -

it dates back to 2004, is guidance not legislation, and is published by the Office of Fair Trading which no longer exists.

 

Trading Standards legislation is not typically enforced by "UK Government" it is undertaken by Local Authorities. These Local Authorities have seen massive cuts in recent years and Trading Standards have seen typically 40-50% cuts. Enforcement action by local authorities is very contentious - it is very expensive and funded from local budgets - with prosecutions signed off by locally elected councillors - who no doubt want to be relected and keep local employers happy.

[DYKWIA]

Is this the most up to date EU Travel Directive?http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/consumer_rights/travel/package/index_en.htm

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=OJ:L:2015:326:TOC

 

It didn't appear to come into force until 31/12/15 and individual member states will have up to 2018 to come up with local legislation.

[richsea]

Boy, have we come a long, long way from "Does Loyalty Matter?".

Perhaps the moderators can change the title to "Is Celebrity Fair to UK Residents?....A Lesson in UK Consumer Law."

[Fouremco]

Boy, have we come a long, long way from "Does Loyalty Matter?".

Perhaps the moderators can change the title to "Is Celebrity Fair to UK Residents?....A Lesson in UK Consumer Law."

So many threads are US-centric that I don't begrudge a bit of drift to a UK focus. :)

[Chunky2219]

.......Perhaps the moderators can change the title to "Is Celebrity Fair to UK Residents?....A Lesson in UK Consumer Law."

No need to a thread on that topic. The answer is no.

 

Perhaps we need a thread about the definition of "fair".

 

 

.