What do you know about Edge?

[FreestyleNovice]

I really wanted to understand your post, but failed, sorry.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

Might be lost in translation; I was catching up posts on my cell phone! :)

 

Point was; a suite complex on a ship doesn't automatically means a decrease for other guests if it's incorporated in the design. And any venue inside the suite complex would have a steerage counterpart. With NCL I have never seen a bigger or better pool inside their Haven complex than the main pool deck for example.

[SantaFeFan]

Point was; a suite complex on a ship doesn't automatically means a decrease for other guests if it's incorporated in the design. And any venue inside the suite complex would have a steerage counterpart. With NCL I have never seen a bigger or better pool inside their Haven complex than the main pool deck for example.

 

The point some people are trying to make is that if there wasn't a Haven complex on those ships, everyone, including the "steerage class", would have two pools to enjoy - the one dedicated to Haven guests, and the one for the rest of us. That one of these pools is for suite guests only indeed takes away from the space that is available to all the passengers. That you have enjoyed these facilities on more than one occasion explains why you are defending them. You are biases to defend areas you enjoy, and I am biased against areas I cannot.

 

There is only so much space on every ship. Dedicating any of it for a certain class means less for the other classes because they are not allowed to enjoy those areas. Just like on Titanic, Lusitania, etc.

 

An analogy: you do work for someone for the agreed amount of $1,000. When you get paid, the government takes away $250 for other uses. You now only have $750 left. Do you still think you have $1,000 to enjoy for yourself?

Edited January 10, 2017 by SantaFeFan

[Cheryl Q]

My understanding is there are two ships coming. One is supposed to be all suite type rooms and an upper class vessel. Both are state of the art. Cant wait to see the pricing.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Forums mobile app

[81Zoomie]

Norwegian Epic has enclosed balconies.

 

The Epic has many "epic failure features" which we should hope X will avoid. An enclosed balcony would be one of them.

[dkjretired]

My understanding is there are two ships coming. One is supposed to be all suite type rooms and an upper class vessel. Both are state of the art. Cant wait to see the pricing.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Forums mobile app

 

Not on Celebrity and there are four ships coming.

[The_Big_M]

What we have been trying to say is if they take something that many enjoy and make it a suite only area, it could be a problem. For example, lets say they take the Solarium, make it smaller and turn it into a suite only area. That is the type of thing we are discussing. Not saying this will happen but if it did it would be a significant change.

 

That's not just hypothetical, but how would you even know after the event?

 

There's no option a, option b; just what is. When we see Edge we'll see what is offered. But even if a suite class area exists, there's no way to know what the alternative would have been.

 

Even say a solarium doesn't appear, and say further that there is a suite only pool. That doesn't mean that if the suite only pool didn't exist, a solarium would be there instead. They may well have made the pool larger, or more whirlpools, or a rooftop lawn area (j/k!), more cabins or who knows...

 

It's speculation without any basis, or purpose.

Edited January 11, 2017 by The_Big_M

[offnoncruiser]

I don't see how anyone cannot recognize the fact that if you limit the access to a disproportionate amount of finite public space to a much smaller percentage of passengers (suites), then the remaining much larger percentage of passengers (non-suites) will have that much less of the remaining finite public space. Simple math. It seems many are disagreeing with that, or at least that's the way I'm reading a lot of the posts on this thread! Granted that remaining space will still be much larger than the "suites only" space, although at a much lower passenger space ratio. I personally don't think it is that noticeable for the INTERIORS of the ship to have "suites only" access.

 

I think it's the open top deck space where you see the disparity. If the Edge ships end up having a "suites only" open space up top, it will certainly reduce the ALREADY LACKING open deck space of ANY SHIP during days at sea (with decent weather of course). For example, even taking up only 15% of the open top deck space for "suites only" (which is perhaps 5% of the passengers), it really makes the rest of the top deck feel that much more crowded (sort of like when all or most of the lawn is roped off for days at a time on the S class). That I do believe will be "noticed" by the non-suite passengers, even on a newly built ship. We've never cruised NCL Haven or MSC Yacht Club ships (partly for these reasons), but I think most people do notice it.

 

Having said all that, do the suite passengers deserve all this extra space and perks? It wasn't that long ago when having a suite only got you a much larger stateroom and perhaps some level of butler service. We did a suite exactly once back then, and personally thought it was an absolute waste of money. Alas, that is all changing with the separate dining room, separate lounges, etc., etc. I guess, for example, one can argue that if you pay at least double the "normal" fare to get a suite, you should get double the fair share of public space (i.e. "suites only" interior and open spaces), and of course the perks that accompany those venues. I would guess your opinion depends on which side of the fence you're on as a suite or non-suite passenger.

 

As long as X has an Edge design that offers the suite passengers these "extra" spaces they're entitled to without overdoing it, I think it will be a success. Otherwise, it will be "noticed" by the non-suite passengers. And whether they will care or not (i.e. book again) is probably all that matters.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure the powers that be at X are thinking that way though. I hope I'm wrong. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if Edge is all just marketing hyperbole in order to maintain interest.

 

Thx.

[sparkins_mob]

Norwegian Epic has enclosed balconies.

 

Seems like a Juliet balcony and seems like a cheat. I like to actually sit outside.

 

If they had regular balconies and these enclosed balconies it might be a nice change to have instead of an oceanview, but I would be very disappointed if this was the only type of balcony Edge had.

[The_Big_M]

The point some people are trying to make is that if there wasn't a Haven complex on those ships, everyone, including the "steerage class", would have two pools to enjoy - the one dedicated to Haven guests, and the one for the rest of us. That one of these pools is for suite guests only indeed takes away from the space that is available to all the passengers. That you have enjoyed these facilities on more than one occasion explains why you are defending them. You are biases to defend areas you enjoy, and I am biased against areas I cannot.

 

Ok, so that's a different argument; that anyone in suites having anything exclusive is bad.

 

And by extension anything exclusive would also be bad. So you could say having a Cruisecritic get together is bad, because others miss out and don't have access. Or those having high levels in captains club is bad for their elite get together which others also don't have access to. And so on. And suites get a butler whereas others do not. And they get priority tender access, so again another benefit others don't have so 'lose out' in the queue.

 

You're welcome to that opinion, but it's pretty common in the modern world, so something that you need to get accustomed to. People pay a lot more for suites so get certain benefits with that, just as those who are regular cruisers do, and even those who are just members of a forum website.

 

Given they're paying a lot more the line may decide that certain facilities may be dedicated to them. As long as there's enough for those not paying as much I still don't see the problem. If pool A is fine for me, why do I care about others getting exclusive access to pool b? Another way to think about it is if the suites didn't exist, the ship would be x% smaller, and may not even have that pool b that concerns you. Hence you still haven't lost out.

[The_Big_M]

I think it's the open top deck space where you see the disparity. If the Edge ships end up having a "suites only" open space up top, it will certainly reduce the ALREADY LACKING open deck space of ANY SHIP during days at sea (with decent weather of course). For example, even taking up only 15% of the open top deck space for "suites only" (which is perhaps 5% of the passengers), it really makes the rest of the top deck feel that much more crowded (sort of like when all or most of the lawn is roped off for days at a time on the S class). That I do believe will be "noticed" by the non-suite passengers, even on a newly built ship. We've never cruised NCL Haven or MSC Yacht Club ships (partly for these reasons), but I think most people do notice it.

 

I've sailed an MSC yacht club ship. In a non-yacht club area. And I didn't notice the missing top deck space (or any other area). In fact for the general passengers there was still a massive amount of activities, spaces and facilities - including the top deck services. In fact, one of the largest I've experienced on quite a range of cruiseships - despite no access to a certain area.

 

Hence, my argument from experience that you don't miss what you don't see. If it's designed well, which being part of a new build I'd expect it to be, then it should be like that. Of course, if they messed up, or made 50% of the area blocked off or similar, it'd be terrible - but I don't believe that would happen, and there's nothing with Celebrity to suggest they would do that.

[dkjretired]

That's not just hypothetical, but how would you even know after the event?

 

There's no option a, option b; just what is. When we see Edge we'll see what is offered. But even if a suite class area exists, there's no way to know what the alternative would have been.

 

Even say a solarium doesn't appear, and say further that there is a suite only pool. That doesn't mean that if the suite only pool didn't exist, a solarium would be there instead. They may well have made the pool larger, or more whirlpools, or a rooftop lawn area (j/k!), more cabins or who knows...

 

It's speculation without any basis, or purpose.

 

Quite frankly, I have no idea what your are talking about. I simply gave an example of something on the M and S class ships, that's all. If you want to make this some type of big philosophical exercise, count me out, its silly.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

I have sailed both the Epic and Escape from NCL and felt the Haven complex did less to take away public deck space from passengers than did the ropes courses, waterslides, full sized basketball courts. mini golf, rock climbing walls, etc. Celebrity offers none of those on current vessels, nor do I think the Edge will either. With the rumor that the Lawn Club goes the way of the Edsel and the dodo bird I think that will offset for any deck/pool space devoted just to suites on Edge

 

I did a count of suites on the NCL Epic and Escape - they both have roughly 70-80 Haven Suites on a 4200 passenger ship (roughly 3-4% of all passengers). By contrast the Reflection has over 100 suites (counting sky suites) on a 3000 passenger ship (about 6-7% of all passengers).

 

If they were to increase suites on the Edge to 10%, which would be absurdly high for a mainstream cruise vessel, we are talking 145 suites on a 2900 passenger ship - almost 50% more than the Reflection and double that of any NCL Haven complex. I do not see how Celebrity can fill that many suites on one ship on a consistent basis. Also to have that many suites on a 2900 passenger ship that is roughly 5,000-7,000 tonnes smaller than the Solstice class means only one thing - more inside cabins. There is no other way to stuff the olive!

 

If a Suite Complex is added I think it will have far less impact than some here want to forecast with all their gloom and doom ......

 

Will there be a reorganization and reallocation of where public spaces are located? Absolutely, however I feel that Celebrity have very good ship designers and that the final result will be spacious and elegant

Edited January 11, 2017 by AtlantaCruiser72

[PTMary]

This has been a very interesting thread, especially watching it morph into a discussion about the merits of dedicated areas for suite passengers. Although it is impossible to know how these ships will eventually be configured, what is clearly obvious is who the posters are that are fans of suites. They are the ones adamantly defending the concept of carving out more and more space for suite passengers, even if it is at the expense of the "cheaper" passengers. It is amusing how they continually claim that "you won't even notice the lost space since you wouldn't have had it in the first place". It's like if they told a blind person that he shouldn't complain about them blocking his view of the sunset since he's blind and can't see it in the first place.

 

Kind of selfish, IMHO.

Edited January 11, 2017 by PTMary

[Seapoint]

Edge really seems like a throw-back to the past...the Titanic era vertical bow, and the Titanic era class system :rolleyes:

[CoconutOne]

I don't have a problem with suite amenities on newer vessels where they're specifically built on decks people don't access otherwise.

 

I think many non-suite space posters fail to realize that on new builds they could simply leave the space out. Specifically, if talking about spaces like the Haven or Yacht Club, if the suites didn't exist, I'm sure the lines would just not build those decks altogether. The assumption that suite space on new builds would become "regular" passenger space is ignorant.

 

On retros I would agree- taking the space away is not appealing. The ship was designed for a specified number of people, and reserving a portion now for suite guests only is insulting. On new builds? Not at all.

Edited January 11, 2017 by CoconutOne

[FreestyleNovice]

The point some people are trying to make is that if there wasn't a Haven complex on those ships, everyone, including the "steerage class", would have two pools to enjoy - the one dedicated to Haven guests, and the one for the rest of us. That one of these pools is for suite guests only indeed takes away from the space that is available to all the passengers. That you have enjoyed these facilities on more than one occasion explains why you are defending them. You are biases to defend areas you enjoy, and I am biased against areas I cannot.

 

There is only so much space on every ship. Dedicating any of it for a certain class means less for the other classes because they are not allowed to enjoy those areas. Just like on Titanic, Lusitania, etc.

 

An analogy: you do work for someone for the agreed amount of $1,000. When you get paid, the government takes away $250 for other uses. You now only have $750 left. Do you still think you have $1,000 to enjoy for yourself?

 

I agree on your view and your explanation but the Haven would not have been designed the suite way if it was meant for regular guests. The courtyard pool is so tiny it would be a laugh, same for the mini fitness the size of a stateroom. It's not that a ship was "cut in half" after it was finished, marking some public spaces for suites guests. It was designed to be a ship within a ship. If the suite complex decks would have consisted of regular staterooms by first design the buffet restaurant would be larger, or the pool deck larger or something else to keep the passenger space ratio in balance. Or at least that is what I hope to think. ;)

 

I traveled Epic from inside and balconies (most of the time) up to the Haven and to me the existence of the Haven isn't noticeable. But any mega ship these days is more filled with pax than before and some find S class ships crowded were we find them quite enjoyable compared to NCL's ships heh. :)

 

And we're far from affording X's suite class so I hope the Edge design will be smart and with an eventual suite complex tucked away somewhere without having to drool at their facilities.. :)

[The_Big_M]

Quite frankly, I have no idea what your are talking about. I simply gave an example of something on the M and S class ships, that's all. If you want to make this some type of big philosophical exercise, count me out, its silly.

 

Actually, you responded to me with your example. My post was a response to that - not me making any "philosophical exercise" but addressing your assertion against it.

 

If you don't have any further point to sustain your challenge, that's fine.

[dkjretired]

Actually, you responded to me with your example. My post was a response to that - not me making any "philosophical exercise" but addressing your assertion against it.

 

If you don't have any further point to sustain your challenge, that's fine.

 

I made no assertion for or against anything at all....I have no challenge...Simple gave an example of something that might happen on new ship..

Edited January 11, 2017 by dkjretired

[conquesodor]

One thing I heard from the executive chef on the Summit back in April 2016, was that the Edge class was going to have a lot more dining options than =X= has ever seen before. He was quick to say that final decisions had not yet been made, but that the prevailing thinking was to offer a much greater variety of dining choices, some being inclusive and some being upcharge/speciality restaurants. This would be accomplished in part, by getting rid of the concept of a singular MDR, and having several smaller venues with different themes instead. (this sounds like what I've seen in reviews of Disney ships, which I believe have 3 smaller dining rooms that guests rotate to from one night to the next.) I haven't seen this mentioned on CC before, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I'm intrigued, but will wait for official confirmation before passing judgement.

[dkjretired]

One thing I heard from the executive chef on the Summit back in April 2016, was that the Edge class was going to have a lot more dining options than =X= has ever seen before. He was quick to say that final decisions had not yet been made, but that the prevailing thinking was to offer a much greater variety of dining choices, some being inclusive and some being upcharge/speciality restaurants. This would be accomplished in part, by getting rid of the concept of a singular MDR, and having several smaller venues with different themes instead. (this sounds like what I've seen in reviews of Disney ships, which I believe have 3 smaller dining rooms that guests rotate to from one night to the next.) I haven't seen this mentioned on CC before, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I'm intrigued, but will wait for official confirmation before passing judgement.

 

It was discussed awhile ago, not in this thread. The discussion pretty much compared it to the Royal Caribbean new concept of dining which I believe was instituted on the Anthem. They had some problems with it so who knows what is going to happen.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

One thing I heard from the executive chef on the Summit back in April 2016, was that the Edge class was going to have a lot more dining options than =X= has ever seen before. He was quick to say that final decisions had not yet been made, but that the prevailing thinking was to offer a much greater variety of dining choices, some being inclusive and some being upcharge/speciality restaurants. This would be accomplished in part, by getting rid of the concept of a singular MDR, and having several smaller venues with different themes instead. (this sounds like what I've seen in reviews of Disney ships, which I believe have 3 smaller dining rooms that guests rotate to from one night to the next.) I haven't seen this mentioned on CC before, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. I'm intrigued, but will wait for official confirmation before passing judgement.

 

Princess (Sapphire/Diamond) and RCCL (Quantum Class) have both tried the idea of 4 smaller complimentary dining venues, each with a unique menu, and in both cases the concept has failed to resonate with passengers. Cruise passengers are strangely resistant to the elimination of the "traditional" dining experience. Even NCL for all their Freestyle ballyhoo still have a 2 or 3 MDR's on most ships that all have the fairly standard rotating cruise menus that are the same regardless of which MDR you choose.

 

I could see them adding additional smaller complimentary and pay venues, and possibly moving to 2 single level MDR spaces (that big hole hole in the middle of a multiple level MDR eats up a LOT of floor space they are going to need!).

[AtlantaCruiser72]

It was discussed awhile ago, not in this thread. The discussion pretty much compared it to the Royal Caribbean new concept of dining which I believe was instituted on the Anthem. They had some problems with it so who knows what is going to happen.

 

Passenger pushback on "Dynamic dining" led to its demise. RCCL have reverted the 4 separate venues on the Anthem to Traditional/MyTime dining with the same rotating menus as the rest of the fleet. You are assigned one of the venues depending on your seating selection and all 4 feature the same menu each night.

[conquesodor]

Thanks for getting me up to speed on "dynamic dining" and it's potential implications on what =X= will do with Edge.

 

If this concept is such a bust on RCCL and Princess, I'm curious how Disney's "Rotational Dining" is received by their passengers? (not to get too off topic)

[sloopsailor]

Thanks for getting me up to speed on "dynamic dining" and it's potential implications on what =X= will do with Edge.

 

If this concept is such a bust on RCCL and Princess, I'm curious how Disney's "Rotational Dining" is received by their passengers? (not to get too off topic)

 

Disney's rotational dining is quite similar to traditional dining with the difference being you change dining rooms, and themes, each night. You have the same set dining time, the same waiters, the same table number and same table mates. Each dining room has a unique theme, and is configured differently, so your table won't necessarily be in the same location in each room. Other than the rotation, it is a traditional dining format. The concept is very popular with Disney guests.

 

Dynamic dining was more an expansion of the anytime dining experience by eliminating traditional dining formats. According to their promotional materials: "With no set dining times, assigned seats or required formal nights, you're free to enjoy everything from delicious comfort food with a twist to pan-Asian flavors and more."

Edited January 11, 2017 by sloopsailor

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Thanks for getting me up to speed on "dynamic dining" and it's potential implications on what =X= will do with Edge.

 

If this concept is such a bust on RCCL and Princess, I'm curious how Disney's "Rotational Dining" is received by their passengers? (not to get too off topic)

 

The Disney market segment is VERY different to the other mainstream cruise lines. The rotational dining works because Disney only has early/late seating and you have the same dining companions and waiters as you rotate through the three dining venues. For them this works.