What do you know about Edge?

[cruisestitch]

Agree that on the M and S class ships we felt that the space had been taken away because we had been used it it the way it was. And the remodeling to create Luminae on the S class ships resulted in a clunky traffic flow in the MDR.

 

Loss of passenger space also happened when the cinema and conference rooms on the M class ships were turned into stateroom. I don't remember the same kind of resentment that resulted from the renovations that were made for suite passengers, but many of us who enjoyed sitting in that corridor in front of those large windows, or watching movies in the cinema, certainly bemoaned their loss.

 

When passenger space in Quasar was taken away to make the Future Cruise Office on Eclipse, I don't remember any hue and cry, either.

 

So one conclusion I can draw is "suite envy" or perhaps "suite resentment".

 

If the ship is designed with a suite class in mind, it doesn't necessarily follow that the other passengers will feel a loss of space. It could happen, but it might also happen that the rest of the ship will feel spacious and the space used for suite amenities won't be missed.

[CoconutOne]

 

When passenger space in Quasar was taken away to make the Future Cruise Office on Eclipse, I don't remember any hue and cry, either.

 

IMO the future cruise office being in 'entertainment' space makes it very unappealing.

 

With regard to S class, I've only sailed Reflection, but that was enough for me. As another poster mentioned, the layout is awkward and poorly designed.

 

I'm anxious to try Equinox or Eclipse even with the future cruise office being oddly placed there. Eclipse seems like it offers the most since Gastrobar and Cellar Masters are included. If they would just get rid of the horrible waste of space that is the photo gallery, then we would really be cooking.

[sloopsailor]

Agree that on the M and S class ships we felt that the space had been taken away because we had been used it it the way it was. And the remodeling to create Luminae on the S class ships resulted in a clunky traffic flow in the MDR.

 

Loss of passenger space also happened when the cinema and conference rooms on the M class ships were turned into stateroom. I don't remember the same kind of resentment that resulted from the renovations that were made for suite passengers, but many of us who enjoyed sitting in that corridor in front of those large windows, or watching movies in the cinema, certainly bemoaned their loss.

 

When passenger space in Quasar was taken away to make the Future Cruise Office on Eclipse, I don't remember any hue and cry, either.

 

So one conclusion I can draw is "suite envy" or perhaps "suite resentment".

 

If the ship is designed with a suite class in mind, it doesn't necessarily follow that the other passengers will feel a loss of space. It could happen, but it might also happen that the rest of the ship will feel spacious and the space used for suite amenities won't be missed.

 

Your argument is so full of holes it should be considered Swiss Cheese Rationalization" :D

 

First, it has nothing to do with "suite envy" or "suite resentment". It is all about having less space and venues available for the rest of us, the 'steerage class" as some call it. We are talking about a ship smaller than an S-class and slightly larger than an M-class, yet with more passengers than both of these classes. If they turned over half the public and private space to suite guests, the rest of the passengers would end up with half the space equal to what is currently available to them on the existing ships. It is simple physics. True, allocating half the space to suite class is probably not realistic, but the theory is still sound. There is no way in the world they could allocate a large portion of a ship for one class without it affecting the rest. These ships just aren't going to be that big.

Edited January 10, 2017 by sloopsailor

[dkjretired]

This is a moot point though because it relates only to M and S class ships. This discussion is in reference to the new E class ships which are being designed from scratch.

 

Perhaps to you it is a moot point, to me it is not. If you wish to discuss this as only Edge class that's fine but you should not have compared them to the S class ships in the passage I quoted. Can't have it both ways.

 

I don't care if they do suite only areas because the people who pay for it deserve it but don't do it at the expense of the rest of the ship as they have in the past.

[The_Big_M]

First, it has nothing to do with "suite envy" or "suite resentment". It is all about having less space and venues available for the rest of us, the 'steerage class" as some call it. We are talking about a ship smaller than an S-class and slightly larger than an M-class, yet with more passengers than both of these classes. If they turned over half the public and private space to suite guests, the rest of the passengers would end up with half the space equal to what is currently available to them on the existing ships. It is simple physics. True, allocating half the space to suite class is probably not realistic, but the theory is still sound. There is no way in the world they could allocate a large portion of a ship for one class without it affecting the rest. These ships just aren't going to be that big.

 

I'll wait and see.

 

I wouldn't expect "half the ship" to be turned over to suite exclusive access. That just doesn't make sense given suites make up, at a quick guess, 10% or less of cabins.

 

And based on where suite class does exist on MSC ships, the allocation they have is not noticeable to those elsewhere on the ship. It's basically like private floors, not that the major entertainment facilities or similar are lost.

 

The only reason it's noticeable in the past was because they modified existing areas because, for example they don't have a dedicated suite restaurant they can readily split off. When the ship is built around it though as with Edge class, it's much simpler.

 

I don't see this as an issue.

[sloopsailor]

I'll wait and see.

 

I wouldn't expect "half the ship" to be turned over to suite exclusive access. That just doesn't make sense given suites make up, at a quick guess, 10% or less of cabins.

 

And based on where suite class does exist on MSC ships, the allocation they have is not noticeable to those elsewhere on the ship. It's basically like private floors, not that the major entertainment facilities or similar are lost.

 

The only reason it's noticeable in the past was because they modified existing areas because, for example they don't have a dedicated suite restaurant they can readily split off. When the ship is built around it though as with Edge class, it's much simpler.

 

I don't see this as an issue.

 

If a ship has a finite amount of space for cabins and public areas, converting any of it to exclusive use for a single class will take away from the rest of the passengers. If you only have 50,000 sq ft for public areas, and 15,000 sq ft is off limits to the majority of the guests, that means the majority will be more cramped in whatever space is still available. The more you allocate to a specific class, the less is available to others.

 

Being the E-class will be smaller than S-class with more people on board, the more space that might be dedicate to a smaller percentage of passengers, the more crowded it will feel to rest of the passengers. That they build it with more suites and exclusive areas, instead of converting existing areas for that use, is not anything to celebrate. That space will still be unavailable for the majority of passengers.

 

Some ships, NCL for example, have sectioned off complete areas of the ship for suite guests on their newer ships. These include suites, restaurants and even pool and lounge areas. If you think that this doesn't take away from other guests, you are very much mistaken.

Edited January 10, 2017 by sloopsailor

[Germancruiser]

I rather like the new/old bow structure- so much more elegant- I agree - the paintings on those Aida Ships are gawd awfull- but the Germans love their Aida Ships- obviously - since the keep building them. I would never set foot on board one of their ships- just not my idea of cruising- and last but not least- waaaaaaaaaay to many Germans on board. LOL.

What I would love to see - a nice propper prommenade deck- with propper deck chairs. If the X- people already forgot how that looks- I highly recommend a voyage on board QM2 QV or QE.

The top decks on board Solstice Class ships are almost ALWAYS overcrowded on sea days- nothing to be surprised about - there is no prommenade deck for those who seek a calm an relaxing sea day- instead of the zoo on the upper decks with constand blareing music all over the place, except for the top Deck on board S- Class ships when you brave all those stairs climbing to Deck 14.

[The_Big_M]

If a ship has a finite amount of space for cabins and public areas, converting any of it to exclusive use for a single class will take away from the rest of the passengers. If you only have 50,000 sq ft for public areas, and 15,000 sq ft is off limits to the majority of the guests, that means the majority will be more cramped in whatever space is still available. The more you allocate to a specific class, the less is available to others.

 

Being the E-class will be smaller than S-class with more people on board, the more space that might be dedicate to a smaller percentage of passengers, the more crowded it will feel to rest of the passengers. That they build it with more suites and exclusive areas, instead of converting existing areas for that use, is not anything to celebrate. That space will still be unavailable for the majority of passengers.

 

Some ships, NCL for example, have sectioned off complete areas of the ship for suite guests on their newer ships. These include suites, restaurants and even pool and lounge areas. If you think that this doesn't take away from other guests, you are very much mistaken.

 

You could say having a smaller ship itself necessarily means there is less public space available. Or having a higher occupancy rate. All of those are self-evident - but they also don't mean anything for the passenger experience aside from a hypothetical alternative state.

 

I didn't say that any of those states doesn't take away from other guests, so there's no mistake. Now you're also referring to converting an existing space, where you are mistaken. Since Edge is being built off the plan no conversion is required.

 

I already pointed out the exclusive areas on MSC. Just having an exclusive area doesn't mean that another guest's experience is less though. If a club is only built for suite guests, regular guests wouldn't have it anyway. It's just like the suite itself. It exists, and takes up space. But that space wouldn't be yours anyway. If a suite only restaurant is built, that would never be for general guests, nothing can be lost. If it didn't exist, they may just put suite guests in a larger MDR. Which doesn't change the experience for non-suite guests in either form.

 

Unless you're trying to claim that whether you're in a 1400 sqm or 1300 sqm dining room has a significant effect on your cruise experience? In which case I disagree and daresay most would feel the same.

[dkjretired]

You could say having a smaller ship itself necessarily means there is less public space available. Or having a higher occupancy rate. All of those are self-evident - but they also don't mean anything for the passenger experience aside from a hypothetical alternative state.

 

I didn't say that any of those states doesn't take away from other guests, so there's no mistake. Now you're also referring to converting an existing space, where you are mistaken. Since Edge is being built off the plan no conversion is required.

 

I already pointed out the exclusive areas on MSC. Just having an exclusive area doesn't mean that another guest's experience is less though. If a club is only built for suite guests, regular guests wouldn't have it anyway. It's just like the suite itself. It exists, and takes up space. But that space wouldn't be yours anyway. If a suite only restaurant is built, that would never be for general guests, nothing can be lost. If it didn't exist, they may just put suite guests in a larger MDR. Which doesn't change the experience for non-suite guests in either form.

 

 

 

Unless you're trying to claim that whether you're in a 1400 sqm or 1300 sqm dining room has a significant effect on your cruise experience? In which case I disagree and daresay most would feel the same.

 

What we have been trying to say is if they take something that many enjoy and make it a suite only area, it could be a problem. For example, lets say they take the Solarium, make it smaller and turn it into a suite only area. That is the type of thing we are discussing. Not saying this will happen but if it did it would be a significant change.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

Since we are talking hypothetically and rumors, I've heard the ship will not have balconies as we know them. It will be possible to close off the balcony to the sea and open it to the cabin. Maybe not all but some cabins will be designed this way. I was told there are some properties in Florida with this type of balcony.

[Mynki]

Perhaps to you it is a moot point, to me it is not. If you wish to discuss this as only Edge class that's fine but you should not have compared them to the S class ships in the passage I quoted. Can't have it both ways.

 

I don't care if they do suite only areas because the people who pay for it deserve it but don't do it at the expense of the rest of the ship as they have in the past.

 

To be frank it is a moot point complete because you chose to quote my post which specifically related to E class ships on an Edge thread. We were not discussing areas of M and S class ships which were 'lost' to non suite guests over time. That is an entirely different subject in itself.

 

The pertinent point is that Celebrity now have carte blanche to design a new ship with suite only amenities to improve the suite experience without hindering anyone else.

 

Somebody else brought up the unfortunate subjects of 'suite envy' and 'suite resentment', unfortunately human nature will ensure that this topic is blighted by people suffering from either or of these conditions as you'll see when the new ship design is revealed to all. But for now we'll try and avoid those areas.

 

So, yes I understand why non suite passengers feel disappointed that the MDR was cut in half and now they only have one entrance and less tableside windows. That isn't envy or resentment that's a genuine reason to be disappointed.

 

I also understand why some are frustrated with losing access to Michael's club. Again a valid reason.

 

But if the new E class ships are designed in a way that non suite guests have all the amenities you would expect then they are not missing out on anything, no matter how people try and spin it. Lets be realistic, Celebrity will be heavily focussed on the bulk of their passengers (non suite) so it's extremely unlikely they will lose out what ever the announced tonnage and length of the ship is!

 

Anyway, on that subject I'll leave others to complain how awful E class will be for non suite passengers even though absolutely no one on this thread knows how this ship will be designed. :)

[Mynki]

So how would people want a suite only ship within a ship to be?

 

Lots of different ways to deliver this but I can't help thinking that keeping all suites on two decks would be ideal.

 

I'd have Luminae (assuming it has the same name) at the rear of the ship and designed in a way that it has access to an outside deck to allow for al fresco dining when conditions permit.

 

I'd also have Michael's Club (Again, assuming it has the same name at the rear of the same deck on the opposite side allowing people to enjoy pre and post drinks. Again I'd give it a deck so that people can drink outside like the sunset bar. I think such a design would be far more popular than the current dark and dingy MC we have today, and as it would inevitably more popular I'd employ a barrister or two to also include a coffee shop area serving the same offerings as Cafe El Bachio which incidentally could relieve pressure for seating.

 

Place accessible cabins near the suite restaurant and lounge for easy access and then at the front of the ship include a pool area.

 

As mentioned above the area would be like two private floors and non suite guests need not miss out on any of the amenities they should expect from a Celebrity cruise ship because bars, restaurants and pool areas available to all would be elsewhere. Job done.

[dkjretired]

To be frank it is a moot point complete because you chose to quote my post which specifically related to E class ships on an Edge thread. We were not discussing areas of M and S class ships which were 'lost' to non suite guests over time. That is an entirely different subject in itself.

 

The pertinent point is that Celebrity now have carte blanche to design a new ship with suite only amenities to improve the suite experience without hindering anyone else.

 

Somebody else brought up the unfortunate subjects of 'suite envy' and 'suite resentment', unfortunately human nature will ensure that this topic is blighted by people suffering from either or of these conditions as you'll see when the new ship design is revealed to all. But for now we'll try and avoid those areas.

 

So, yes I understand why non suite passengers feel disappointed that the MDR was cut in half and now they only have one entrance and less tableside windows. That isn't envy or resentment that's a genuine reason to be disappointed.

 

I also understand why some are frustrated with losing access to Michael's club. Again a valid reason.

 

But if the new E class ships are designed in a way that non suite guests have all the amenities you would expect then they are not missing out on anything, no matter how people try and spin it. Lets be realistic, Celebrity will be heavily focussed on the bulk of their passengers (non suite) so it's extremely unlikely they will lose out what ever the announced tonnage and length of the ship is!

 

Anyway, on that subject I'll leave others to complain how awful E class will be for non suite passengers even though absolutely no one on this thread knows how this ship will be designed. :)

 

To try and keep this discussion to just the Edge class ships as you suggest just is beyond any sense of reality. You can bet that the areas of the Edge class ships will be named very similar and have similar characteristics to those on M and S class ships so there is no way around it.

 

As I stated several times in this thread, don't have a problem with a suite area as long as they don't take any further areas away from the rest of the existing ships. That is all I am arguing and I stand 100% behind that statement.

[Eloise4Ever]

So how would people want a suite only ship within a ship to be?

 

..I'd employ a barrister or two to also include a coffee shop area ...

 

LOL - a new service for suite passengers? Suite class fares on Edge class ships to include legal advice? :D:)

 

Just teasing, I know you meant barista but I appreciated the chuckle :).

[Eloise4Ever]

Since we are talking hypothetically and rumors, I've heard the ship will not have balconies as we know them. It will be possible to close off the balcony to the sea and open it to the cabin. Maybe not all but some cabins will be designed this way. I was told there are some properties in Florida with this type of balcony.

 

Some of the river cruise companies have a variation on this kind of balcony on their ships. For example, Scenic has what they call "sun lounges":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX6I1xEcsMM

[Mynki]

LOL - a new service for suite passengers? Suite class fares on Edge class ships to include legal advice? :D:)

 

Just teasing, I know you meant barista but I appreciated the chuckle :).

 

:D :D - Guess who's not had enough coffee today!

[Mynki]

To try and keep this discussion to just the Edge class ships as you suggest just is beyond any sense of reality. You can bet that the areas of the Edge class ships will be named very similar and have similar characteristics to those on M and S class ships so there is no way around it.

 

Of course it is. People just have to whinge and moan and this discussion gives them the perfect platform to do it! :)

 

But your points in context is still moot! ;)

 

 

As I stated several times in this thread, don't have a problem with a suite area as long as they don't take any further areas away from the rest of the existing ships. That is all I am arguing and I stand 100% behind that statement.

 

No one ever said you did have issue with it did they?

[dkjretired]

Of course it is. People just have to whinge and moan and this discussion gives them the perfect platform to do it! :)

 

But your points in context is still moot! ;)

 

 

 

 

No one ever said you did have issue with it did they?

 

Since at least 50%of the posts refer to M and S class ships it is obviously not a moot point. I stand behind everything I said.

[Mynki]

Since at least 50%of the posts refer to M and S class ships it is obviously not a moot point. I stand behind everything I said.

 

Don, a few others get it as their posts show. I've simplified things as much as I can, if you still don't understand, I can't help you . :(

[CHEZMARYLOU]

Some of the river cruise companies have a variation on this kind of balcony on their ships. For example, Scenic has what they call "sun lounges":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX6I1xEcsMM

 

I like it!

[kevinyork]

I rather like the new/old bow structure- so much more elegant- I agree - the paintings on those Aida Ships are gawd awfull- but the Germans love their Aida Ships- obviously - since the keep building them. I would never set foot on board one of their ships- just not my idea of cruising- and last but not least- waaaaaaaaaay to many Germans on board. LOL.

What I would love to see - a nice propper prommenade deck- with propper deck chairs. If the X- people already forgot how that looks- I highly recommend a voyage on board QM2 QV or QE.

The top decks on board Solstice Class ships are almost ALWAYS overcrowded on sea days- nothing to be surprised about - there is no prommenade deck for those who seek a calm an relaxing sea day- instead of the zoo on the upper decks with constand blareing music all over the place, except for the top Deck on board S- Class ships when you brave all those stairs climbing to Deck 14.

 

 

 

I've been on ships with full promenades and my experience is that yes, some people use them but in reality it's a very small minority. Most new ship designs have reduced promenades to functional spaces to access the lifeboats and I don't expect Edge class to reverse that trend.

 

 

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[WonderMan3]

Since we are talking hypothetically and rumors, I've heard the ship will not have balconies as we know them. It will be possible to close off the balcony to the sea and open it to the cabin. Maybe not all but some cabins will be designed this way. I was told there are some properties in Florida with this type of balcony.

 

Norwegian Epic has enclosed balconies.

[dkjretired]

Don, a few others get it as their posts show. I've simplified things as much as I can, if you still don't understand, I can't help you . :(

 

One person agreed with you and no one said discussing m and s class is moot. You obviously don't understand what I said. We'll just have to see what happen.

[FreestyleNovice]

NCL and MSC are good examples of how a ship within a ship complex should be done. Nothing really noticeable but a world on it's own.

 

Been in NCL's Haven and a few times as a regular guest on NCL's Epic. If there wasn't a suite complex there wouldn't be the exact same facilities or deck designs so it's not missing out to me. Most of the time a cruise line wants to show the difference in bars and lounges to make the suite complex stand out so standard venues will be in place and on top of that dedicated suite venues in the suite complex.

A suite complex does not result in a lower guest space ratio by definition unless it's a unlucky dry dock refit..?

 

And it's not that large or exceptional special after all.. :)

[kevinyork]

NCL and MSC are good examples of how a ship within a ship complex should be done. Nothing really noticeable but a world on it's own.

 

 

 

Been in NCL's Haven and a few times as a regular guest on NCL's Epic. If there wasn't a suite complex there wouldn't be the exact same facilities or deck designs so it's not missing out to me. Most of the time a cruise line wants to show the difference in bars and lounges to make the suite complex stand out so standard venues will be in place and on top of that dedicated suite venues in the suite complex.

 

A suite complex does not result in a lower guest space ratio by definition unless it's a unlucky dry dock refit..?

 

 

 

And it's not that large or exceptional special after all.. :)

 

 

 

I really wanted to understand your post, but failed, sorry.

 

 

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