Muster drills

[john watson]

Oh my, I can't believe he was denied a lift :( I hope the crew member received feedback... :(

 

As an aside to muster drill lift policing another area where I observed staff interjecting in a positive manner was on the Promenade Deck. For those not familiar with the layout of Ventura; Baytree Restaurant is on deck 6 and only accessible by using the aft lift bank/stairs. You cannot travel along deck 6 and go to Baytree direct as the two restaurants on this deck are back to back with the galley in the middle full width of the ship. You basically need to go up and over the galleys. There is also a steep slope from the side of the ship to the centre part of Promenade Deck at the lifts area.

 

I noticed on my last cruise that at the beginning of each dinner sitting about three waiters stationed in the area looking for people using wheel chairs. As they arrived, one guy would assist the pusher to bank them up the slope to the lifts, the other two guys would be stopping the lifts and assessing space availability and politely requesting people to walk down the last flight if they looked well fit and they could easily manage it as they had excessive wheel chairs building up.

 

I thought it seemed a good system.

 

Regards John

[Josy1953]

That is worrying. Did you get a response from P&O to your letter? My husband had a near 2 hour cardiac arrest at home 6 years ago (when in his 40s) followed by a miracle recovery, and is now fit enough to only use the stairs (I struggle more than him!). But even after coming out of hospital, people could have told him he looked mobile enough to not use the lifts :( health and mobility issues can be hidden. There's no way back then he could have climbed several decks of stairs, but people would have seen a 'slimmish' man in his 40s and judged incorrectly...

We did get a reply from P&O apologising and explaining that it was difficult to decide who needed to use lifts but that they would feed back to the ship that if someone said that they had a healthy problem and needed to use a lift then they should be allowed to use one. My husband has always been an active person and refuses to allow his health to limit him anymore than absolutely necessary.

[Josy1953]

As an aside to muster drill lift policing another area where I observed staff interjecting in a positive manner was on the Promenade Deck. For those not familiar with the layout of Ventura; Baytree Restaurant is on deck 6 and only accessible by using the aft lift bank/stairs. You cannot travel along deck 6 and go to Baytree direct as the two restaurants on this deck are back to back with the galley in the middle full width of the ship. You basically need to go up and over the galleys. There is also a steep slope from the side of the ship to the centre part of Promenade Deck at the lifts area.

 

I noticed on my last cruise that at the beginning of each dinner sitting about three waiters stationed in the area looking for people using wheel chairs. As they arrived, one guy would assist the pusher to bank them up the slope to the lifts, the other two guys would be stopping the lifts and assessing space availability and politely requesting people to walk down the last flight if they looked well fit and they could easily manage it as they had excessive wheel chairs building up.

 

I thought it seemed a good system.

 

Regards John

Interestingly our problem was on Ventura. It is a good system if they are asking people to walk down but I hope that they are not insisting that they walk because looking well and fit does not mean that they are.

[terrierjohn]

There's only one thing worse than a muster drill on a cruise, and that's trying to get out of the muster station to anywhere else after the drill is complete.

As a wheelchair pusher that I do endorse, even after the Captain has requested that wheelchair users be given priority, we have been pushed out of way in the rush to get to a lift.

[Selbourne]

As a wheelchair pusher that I do endorse, even after the Captain has requested that wheelchair users be given priority, we have been pushed out of way in the rush to get to a lift.

 

We have had exactly the same problem. We find that this is more prevalent on the newer ships. Britannia was the worst example. We were waiting for a lift for ages and able bodied people, who arrived at the lifts long after we had been waiting, were jumping in the lifts as if we were invisible. By contrast, on our recent cruise on Aurora, almost all passengers gave us priority and some even exited the lift early, using the stairs for the last few flights, in order to allow us to enter. We really appreciated this and it made a huge difference to our enjoyment of the cruise.

 

I applaud P&O trying to address this issue but repeat that over ten cruises we have never seen this approach, so perhaps it was a very short term trial that has stopped. Of course, not all disabilities are visible and anyone who states that they need a lift on medical grounds should be admitted without question. Some people will blatantly abuse this (as they do with assisted embarkation and disembarkation), but that's human nature I'm afraid. If these people ever suffer the misfortune of becoming severely disabled then they will very quickly appreciate why those in wheelchairs really appreciate the consideration of fellow passengers or a little help from staff.

[Eglesbrech]

I do have a medical condition that is not visible and I do not see why I should need to disclose this to anyone to justify using a lift. It is my private business. That said I have never been asked this question by P&O staff so never come across the situation described.

 

I do think that people are sometimes very rude and push into lifts ahead of other passengers but you really can't legislate for ill mannered louts. Unfortunately there appear to be more pushy, selfish people around than there were in the past.

 

I have seen people push ahead of a wheelchair user who was before them in the "que" and if I do I usually call them out on it! I have also however seen wheelchair and scooter users virtually driving over other people feet as if they are the only people entitled to use the facility.

 

Good manners should be displayed by all and life would be better.

[john watson]

I do have a medical condition that is not visible and I do not see why I should need to disclose this to anyone to justify using a lift. It is my private business.

 

Good manners should be displayed by all and life would be better.

 

I am pretty certain the staff concerned will simply point out to all in the lift that a wheel chair user needs to use a lift to get to the restaurant and politely ask if anybody might help them by walking the final flight. I do not believe they will be trying to interrogate people in respect of whether they themselves are fit and healthy and should be walking irrespective of their appearance.

 

Regards John

[Eglesbrech]

I am pretty certain the staff concerned will simply point out to all in the lift that a wheel chair user needs to use a lift to get to the restaurant and politely ask if anybody might help them by walking the final flight. I do not believe they will be trying to interrogate people in respect of whether they themselves are fit and healthy and should be walking irrespective of their appearance.

 

Regards John

 

Crossed wires John, I was referring to the muster issue, see post#20.

[john watson]

Crossed wires John, I was referring to the muster issue, see post#20.

 

Ahh yes, post #20. I feel it is inappropriate for a member of staff to specifically cite a passenger and suggest they look fit and well and therefore should be using the stairs. It would be more helpful in my opinion if staff after exiting the muster stations moved to the lifts areas and gave out general repeat announcement of what the captain said regarding mobility reduced passengers and wheel chair users needing the lifts and generally repeating this message in more of a broadcasted manner. It should not be directed specifically at an individual.

 

This would be generally helpful.

 

Regards John

[tom_uk]

Back to the original question - scanning cruise cards at the drill. 'Yes' on Azura on 16 June.

[gillhalfpint]

We always go up to the muster early so my husband can use the lifts and agree it is bad to be kept waiting while folk unpack or finish a meal before ambling up for the muster. We have seen elderly collapse waiting in the sun sometimes nearly an hour till the checking in is complete. They should do the drill at the stated time with the ones who attend, and call those who failed to reception to get cards re-activated and a safety lecture. Lifts are always going to be a problem. My husband needs to use them, but I am happy to walk up a floor or down a couple if a full one comes along.

[terrierjohn]

Ahh yes, post #20. I feel it is inappropriate for a member of staff to specifically cite a passenger and suggest they look fit and well and therefore should be using the stairs. It would be more helpful in my opinion if staff after exiting the muster stations moved to the lifts areas and gave out general repeat announcement of what the captain said regarding mobility reduced passengers and wheel chair users needing the lifts and generally repeating this message in more of a broadcasted manner. It should not be directed specifically at an individual.

 

This would be generally helpful.

 

Regards John

Whilst I am not one for sticking to the rules, especially pointless ones, I can see that maybe there is a benefit to all cruisers in having some crew members trying to aid the less mobile access the lifts especially at peak times like immediately after muster drill; of course this job would require tact and extreme patience.

A similar, but totally separate issue, is trying to stop the unnecessary and frustrating reserving of sunbeds, another job requiring tact and broad shoulders to carry the likely abuse.

[Eglesbrech]

They should go a stage further and designate a couple of lifts after muster for use only by wheelchair users, people with mobility aids etc. save any arguments.

 

While this would discriminate against people like me and the poster mentioned at #20 we could use other lifts without being asked questions we don't feel we should need to answer about our health.

[Josy1953]

They should go a stage further and designate a couple of lifts after muster for use only by wheelchair users, people with mobility aids etc. save any arguments.

 

While this would discriminate against people like me and the poster mentioned at #20 we could use other lifts without being asked questions we don't feel we should need to answer about our health.

This is a great idea, I am all for making wheelchairs and other mobbility aids priority in the lifts, I hope that I am never in the situation of needing one.

I was the poster #20, my OH is the problem but in 42 cruises he has only met this problem once, he does not want to discuss his health issues in front of the masses. He has to carry an NHS issued document outlining his problems because if he is taken ill suddenly or has an accident the treatments that can be given are very restricted so he could of course show this to prove that he has problems but why should he, his word should be enough.

We will carry on cruising because his situation rules out air travel and hopefully he will not not have the same problem in future. :)

[john watson]

They should go a stage further and designate a couple of lifts after muster for use only by wheelchair users, people with mobility aids etc. save any arguments.

 

While this would discriminate against people like me and the poster mentioned at #20 we could use other lifts without being asked questions we don't feel we should need to answer about our health.

 

I have stayed at hotels where the, hotel rooms are accessed by lifts but the general public are generally excluded from the accommodation area for security reasons. The system they tend to use is that the lifts do not work if you simply use the numbered floor buttons. You have to use your hotel room key card on a scanner first then press a floor and then the lift works. If the ships had a similar system fitted then anyone, not just wheelchair users, who has a mobility issue could get their cruise card registered. At the end of the muster drill the captain could announce that all the lifts will only operate if a mobility cardholder is in the lift for 30 minutes before they re-set to general use.

 

Regards John

[Josy1953]

I have stayed at hotels where the, hotel rooms are accessed by lifts but the general public are generally excluded from the accommodation area for security reasons. The system they tend to use is that the lifts do not work if you simply use the numbered floor buttons. You have to use your hotel room key card on a scanner first then press a floor and then the lift works. If the ships had a similar system fitted then anyone, not just wheelchair users, who has a mobility issue could get their cruise card registered. At the end of the muster drill the captain could announce that all the lifts will only operate if a mobility cardholder is in the lift for 30 minutes before they re-set to general use.

 

Regards John

Another good idea, P&O need to take a look at some of the ideas on here.

[Cartog]

Yes muster drills a neccesary pain. Last year on Britannia we had a complete shutdown of all things electronic had to be rebooted overnight from southampton. No entertainment at all yes even pianos would not work as all electronic. I suspect in a real emergency no computers would mean no swipe card access much prefer real person checking out cabins and reporting back.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Cartog
spelling

[grapau27]

Whilst I am not one for sticking to the rules, especially pointless ones, I can see that maybe there is a benefit to all cruisers in having some crew members trying to aid the less mobile access the lifts especially at peak times like immediately after muster drill; of course this job would require tact and extreme patience.

A similar, but totally separate issue, is trying to stop the unnecessary and frustrating reserving of sunbeds, another job requiring tact and broad shoulders to carry the likely abuse.

Out of respect we always let a wheelchair into the lift before us and if necessary will get another lift or walk up the stairs if there is then not room for us in the lift.

 

Sent from my Kestrel using Forums mobile app

[Presto2]

One thing I don't understand is why they don't let you use your main escape route in a muster drill for some cabins?

On our first cruise on Oceana we had to use the stairs opposite the cabin that was the main route (identified by signs and on the cabin door), though this was usually a staff staircase. We have had the same cabin a number of times since and even though this stair case is identified as the main route we are not allowed to use it in the drill.

To me a drill is there to show you your routes - the best routes - in an emergency.

 

On Ventura in August our cabin was close to a crew stairway again. Same issue, identified as the main route etc and as an emergency exit, but we weren't allowed to use it.

 

It isn't a major criticism, but I'm sure that if they used these escape routes it would better prepare guests and take some of the pressure off the main stair ways.

 

Does anyone know why they have stopped using these stair ways as it baffles us.

[CarlaMarie]

One thing I don't understand is why they don't let you use your main escape route in a muster drill for some cabins?

On our first cruise on Oceana we had to use the stairs opposite the cabin that was the main route (identified by signs and on the cabin door), though this was usually a staff staircase. We have had the same cabin a number of times since and even though this stair case is identified as the main route we are not allowed to use it in the drill.

To me a drill is there to show you your routes - the best routes - in an emergency.

 

On Ventura in August our cabin was close to a crew stairway again. Same issue, identified as the main route etc and as an emergency exit, but we weren't allowed to use it.

 

It isn't a major criticism, but I'm sure that if they used these escape routes it would better prepare guests and take some of the pressure off the main stair ways.

 

Does anyone know why they have stopped using these stair ways as it baffles us.

 

I have been wondering the same Presto.

 

On my very first cruise onboard Oceana (2008) we were also directed down the crew staircase (from B Deck), which was our nearest emergency exit.

 

However on all of the cruises since, we have had to use the main staircase during the muster drill.

[happytravelleruk]

We have just come back from Britannia and found no problems with the lifts when I was in my wheelchair or on my scooter. People always allowed me to enter first and those already inside would move to the sides. Finding room in the lifts, however was often a problem, especially of course at meal times. It is amazing how often they flash past your floor without stopping.

[Presto2]

I have been wondering the same Presto.

 

On my very first cruise onboard Oceana (2008) we were also directed down the crew staircase (from B Deck), which was our nearest emergency exit.

 

However on all of the cruises since, we have had to use the main staircase during the muster drill.

 

We were deck A on Oceana. I wonder if it is a health and safety thing re the stairs not being carpeted and more slippery??? OK, that sounds stupid - I'm clutching at straws :confused:

[AchileLauro]

One thing I don't understand is why they don't let you use your main escape route in a muster drill for some cabins?

On our first cruise on Oceana we had to use the stairs opposite the cabin that was the main route (identified by signs and on the cabin door), though this was usually a staff staircase. We have had the same cabin a number of times since and even though this stair case is identified as the main route we are not allowed to use it in the drill.

To me a drill is there to show you your routes - the best routes - in an emergency.

 

On Ventura in August our cabin was close to a crew stairway again. Same issue, identified as the main route etc and as an emergency exit, but we weren't allowed to use it.

 

It isn't a major criticism, but I'm sure that if they used these escape routes it would better prepare guests and take some of the pressure off the main stair ways.

 

Does anyone know why they have stopped using these stair ways as it baffles us.

 

The reason that they don't always direct you down the main staircases that you would normally use it to educate passengers to the alternative routes available in an emergency. This is just the same as preventing the use of normal escape routes in an emergency evacuation drill in the workplace at home. People become so accustomed to only ever entering or exiting a building by a single route that in an emergency situation they forget about any alternative routes that may be available.

[FangedRose]

The reason that they don't always direct you down the main staircases that you would normally use it to educate passengers to the alternative routes available in an emergency. This is just the same as preventing the use of normal escape routes in an emergency evacuation drill in the workplace at home. People become so accustomed to only ever entering or exiting a building by a single route that in an emergency situation they forget about any alternative routes that may be available.

The point is that they have stopped doing this, and only direct you to the main staircase.

[Presto2]

On both ships it was a much greater distance to walk down the corridor and then down the stairs than to just walk out of the cabin door and then primary exit is right in front of you. A big difference when you are elderly and then have to stand in the queues down the crowded stairs.

 

I can sort of see what is being said, but where I work we get people used to the main route before messing with it and getting them to use the secondary route.

 

I imagine there is a good reason, just us not understanding the logic.